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Author Topic: FIFA World Cup - Russia 2018  (Read 4531 times)
ghost
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Reply #105 on: July 02, 2018, 07:23:23 PM

I've latched on to Belgium to cheer for since the US isn't in it.  I quit watching way too early.   Ohhhhh, I see.
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Reply #106 on: July 02, 2018, 08:35:02 PM

WOW. The Brazil/Mexico game was pretty good and I hate that the Mexican team is out. They actually went after one of the favorites instead of just turtling up like Russia did. Same goes for Japan, who played like crazy right up until the final whistle. This Belgium team is so loaded with talent but just something is missing. I think playing non-wingbacks in the wingback role and having De Bruyne play so deep is really blunting their attack. Similarly, I'm not sure why Brazil insists on starting Gabriel Jesus, who has looked mostly lost out there. Firmino should be starting with the form he's in.

Hoax
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Reply #107 on: July 02, 2018, 08:44:11 PM

sadly this is Brasil's to lose.

Belgium just isn't solid enough. France is our best hope but they may be too young and inconsistent and their coach is awful. The shine is off Croatia quite a bit after that struggle, they looked like they had no ideas against an organized defense and sadly this Brazilian defense is fairly organized.

lol England. It'd take some amazing stuff to believe in the Swiss or Swedes who just don't have nearly the talent imo.

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Shannow
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Reply #108 on: July 02, 2018, 09:56:25 PM

This looks more and more like Brazil’s cup to lose. I’m going to dream of an England - Belgium final where there are 10 goals scored and England loses on penalties.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Strazos
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Reply #109 on: July 02, 2018, 11:18:39 PM

Am I the only person who thinks it's fucking dumb you can decide an elimination game on penalty kicks?

At least the NHL only does that shit during the regular season.

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Sir T
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Reply #110 on: July 03, 2018, 06:54:49 AM

Whats the alternative? Play on till first goal scored?

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #111 on: July 03, 2018, 07:31:12 AM

Whats the alternative? Play on till first goal scored?

There was a time where association footbal did exactly that. Extra time went on until either team scored. This practice was abandoned because some matches tended to go on for hours and I believe - if I remember correctly - that one particular match went on for more than a day.

The home/away or group modes for international tournaments was one reaction to that (including the "away goal" tie breaker rule). For matches in a knock out round of a tournament association football changed to a mode where matches would either be repeated at a later date or be decided by a coin toss if extra time ended on a draw. Rescheduling matches in an international cup that only has a limited time until the final is almost impossible though and it would put the teams that had to repeat matches at a disadvantage. The coin toss was just flat out unpopular.

Penalty shootouts were a compromise that was first introduced in 1970 by UEFA and the English FA and which were later adopted by FIFA as a whole. The advantage is that you have a guaranteed end to a knockout match which makes tournaments much easier to schedule. A home/away style knockout stage like in the UEFA champions league would make the knockout stage of a world cup take twice as long (so the tournament would take 2 months) and you'd still need a tie breaker if both legs ended on a 0:0 draw.

It's basically a compromise that best fits all of the different requirements that a tournament mode needs to satisfy.

Another reason is that fans love penalty shootouts even if they claim otherwise. There have been several attempts to abolish penalty shootouts or to make them less common. The last one being the "golden goal" rule (similar to "sudden death" in hockey) where extra time ended once a goal was scored. All of those attempts have failed because of the resistance of the fans. Fans like the extra time/penalty shootout mode too much.
01101010
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Reply #112 on: July 03, 2018, 08:09:49 AM

They should go to extra time, 10min halves - but each extra time each team loses a player.  why so serious?

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Reply #113 on: July 03, 2018, 10:23:02 AM

I'm fine with penalty shootouts as the alternatives all seem to suck or turn the tournament into an international cricket test match.  why so serious?

01101010
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Reply #114 on: July 03, 2018, 11:03:00 AM

How about play it like the NHL, ball at the midfield line and attacker gets a running start.

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Gimfain
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Reply #115 on: July 03, 2018, 03:54:17 PM

The apocalypse is near, england won a penalty shootout.

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Reply #116 on: July 03, 2018, 04:16:12 PM

Maybe if the teams didn't turtle as much, you wouldn't have games then dragged on as much.

It somehow works for hockey, which is undoubtedly more physical - you basically have to go to war to win in the playoffs there.

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Reply #117 on: July 03, 2018, 06:59:16 PM

The game was an utter and absolute shitshow with an abysmal ref. It was also pretty entertaining.
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Reply #118 on: July 04, 2018, 01:22:46 AM

Yeah that ref lost control early and never gained it back no matter how many yellows he showed. He needed to drop a second yellow on some of those fuckers. Colombia in particular seemed really interested in starting fights though they weren't the only ones. Jordan Henderson getting booked for his silly little head nudge then missing a penalty... oooooof. In the end, I'm not entirely sure the better team won because once England got a goal up, they just seemed unable to string 2 passes together in the final third no matter what.

As for teams turtling, it's only going to get worse if they add another 16 teams to the tournament. It's what made the 2016 Euros suck so hard. But when faced with a side like Brazil or Spain, I don't blame the lesser teams for doing it. Shit, it worked for Russia.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #119 on: July 04, 2018, 02:47:19 AM

It has always been that way to some extent. Italy was very successful for a long time with an ultra defensive setup. Turtle up, let the other team run their heads against the wall for 90 or 120 minutes and then pounce once they’re exhausted. Games against an Italian side were usually awful 0:0 draws that ended on penalties or with a late goal in the hundredth-something minute.

See the 2006 Germany vs. Italy World Cup semifinal for an example where Italy won in the 119th minute.

It’s a destructive tactic because it punishes the side that plays to win in regular time and turns the games into snooze fests but it is hard to score against a side that runs a 10-0-0 setup and is just defending and looking out for the occasional counter attack.

You can win entire world cups with that tactic though. (again see Italy for an example)

The current WC shows again that there are not that many options for attacking teams to break up a back five formation that is well organized, you’ll need to be lucky or good at penalties.
ghost
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Reply #120 on: July 04, 2018, 04:30:29 PM

They should just skip right to penalties after the 90 minute regulation time.  I have rarely seen a team score in that 30 minutes of additional time.  One I clearly note is when de Bruyne burned the US last cup.  Seems like a waste of time, generally, though.

I love that Maradona is claiming that the refs screwed Colombia.  Mr. "Hand of God" himself is clearly qualified to call people out when it comes to cheating.   Ohhhhh, I see.
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Reply #121 on: July 04, 2018, 04:35:44 PM

A competent ref would’ve probably meant that Colombia only had nine men on the field. If anything he was too nice to Colombia.
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Reply #122 on: July 04, 2018, 04:37:11 PM

A competent ref would’ve probably meant that Colombia only had nine men on the field. If anything he was too nice to Colombia.

This. But yeah, Mr. Middle Fingers of God has zero reason to complain about the refs jobbing someone.

ghost
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Reply #123 on: July 04, 2018, 04:38:13 PM

Fuck yeah.  That was one of the more thuggish sides I've seen.  England had their share of dipshit stuff, but I'm surprised Colombia didn't send someone in with a crowbar to take out Kane's knee Nancy Kerrigan style.
01101010
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Reply #124 on: July 04, 2018, 07:20:09 PM

Well to be fair, those guys were playing with their lives on the line. I'm sure that one player who missed off the crossbar is going to be gunned down by August. I would love to say I'm joking, but shit is a little too real in that country.

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ghost
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Reply #125 on: July 04, 2018, 07:56:07 PM

As I understand it, things are a little better down there than they were back in Valderrama's playing days.  I'm sure it's not perfect, but I doubt any of them will be murdered.
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Reply #126 on: July 06, 2018, 03:11:27 PM

Suck it, Brazil. Neymar's diving histrionics are a fucking embarrassment to the sport. Simulation should be reviewable both during and after matches, with cards handed out appropriately.

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #127 on: July 06, 2018, 03:21:14 PM

Welcome to the Euro 2018.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #128 on: July 06, 2018, 04:06:11 PM

Neymar, the boy who cried wolf. Brazil denied at least one penalty today because that team dived so much that everyone stopped giving a fuck and assumed everything was a dive.
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Reply #129 on: July 06, 2018, 08:37:05 PM

Fuck Neymar. He should have been double yellowed and sent off for as much bitchy diving as he did and despite being a huge fan of Coutinho and Firmino, I'm glad Brazil lost. Why Tite persisted in starting Gabriel Jesus over Firmino, I have no idea. Belgium was so much better today with Fellaini in midfield to help Weitsel, who has looked overwhelmed most of the tournament.

The other 2 quarterfinal matches I expect to be extremely boring, grinding affairs.

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Reply #130 on: July 06, 2018, 10:41:39 PM

Been traveling across Asia with my Dad for the last two weeks, so have actually had to the chance to watch a bunch of World Cup games because thats whats playing in all the bars and hotel restaurants when we go out for the night (normally I never bother watching).

It’s been ok, but based on what I saw, they should probably just skip straight to the penalty kick shoot out to decide who wins the game and call it a day for each match.

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #131 on: July 07, 2018, 11:28:09 AM

First real challenge for England will be the final vs. either Belgium or France.

Easiest run since Germany‘s in 2002.
HaemishM
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Reply #132 on: July 07, 2018, 01:18:12 PM

Yeah, that side of the brackets has been full of some really bullshit easy games compared to the side with France, Belgium and Brazil.

01101010
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Reply #133 on: July 10, 2018, 02:55:26 PM

 DRILLING AND MANLINESS DRILLING AND MANLINESS DRILLING AND MANLINESS

One more please...

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WayAbvPar
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Reply #134 on: July 10, 2018, 05:32:14 PM

France's back 4 (and Pogba) are winning this tournament for them. They are a fortress, especially in the air. Very impressed. Was rooting for Belgium, but now I think I want to see France beat England for maximum comedy value.

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Reply #135 on: July 10, 2018, 08:43:59 PM

Having a player like N'Golo Kante in front of France is invaluable.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #136 on: July 11, 2018, 02:39:30 AM

Having a player like N'Golo Kante in front of France is invaluable.

Two very evenly matched sides meant that both didn't have many opportunities to score. Beautiful game but could have easily gone to extra time or penalties because both kept neutralising each other very well.

That's when a good standard after a dead ball can make al the difference and it did.
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Reply #137 on: July 11, 2018, 09:37:41 AM

Belgium started with Fellaini in the middle instead of Mertens or Carrasco out wide, says it all about their ambitions. One from the Dour-inho handbook.

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01101010
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Reply #138 on: July 11, 2018, 02:52:49 PM

Man if Croatia pulls this out, they are going to be the walking dead this weekend... FFS, 3 extra time matches in a row?

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #139 on: July 11, 2018, 03:38:25 PM

As soon as a competent and experienced team put on the pressure England fell completely apart.
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