f13.net

Groupings have been set today.

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/y=2017/m=12/news=final-draw-roundup-2922235.html

I'm leaning towards France this year... mainly because I look at the list and pick a name. Worked well in 2014 as I took the Germans.  :awesome_for_real:

Only comes around once every 4 years. It can get its own thread.

USA/Mexico/Canada just announced as host for 2026 cup, phew that was a close one over Morocco.. :oh_i_see:



Predictions?

Germany/Spain/Brazil are favourites. France? Belgium as the outsider (with the best FUT team).

How will England self-destruct this year?

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=25766.0

Tried that... no one was going for it.  :awesome_for_real:

Fuck it we'll make it work this time!

I would also be very happy with Russia lost to Saudi Arabia tomorrow. :D

Want to spice it up with a prediction game? https://www.kicktipp.com/ or is there something better available?

Well they just sacked their NT coach...

Haha, I had forgotten USA didn't qualify.  Good luck, rest of the world!

I don't pay nearly as much attention to the international game as I do the club game but I think it's Germany's to lose. The weird turmoil in the Spain camp over the manager isn't going to help, and I'm not entirely convinced by the Brazilian team. France seems to never gel quite right despite the loads of talent on that team and Belgium, which has great talent as well, has Roberto Martinez as manager so not going to win anything big there.

Russia is just a shitty team to match their shitty country.

Kinda disappointed no Netherlands this year... But I have the motherland Poland in it. /cry

Still calling France. I mean they have a cock on their Jerseys...  :why_so_serious:

We just lost 0:1 against Austria and managed to barely win 2:1 against Saudi Arabia (and only because of an own goal) but we're always shit before a major tournament. There's also the whole deal with Özil and Gündogan meeting Erdogan and getting their pictures taken and how the aftermath has messed with the NT. (Gündogan gave him a shirt dedicated to "our dear president") The photo op got (naturally) leaked and people were rather pissed off about that.

My money would be on Brazil, which has had an impressive win record since the new manager has taken over or France. It has been 56 years since a national team has last managed to defend its title so the likelihood is low that Germany will break that streak.

There's the old saying though of Germany being a "tournament team" (meaning that we're usually shit before a major tournament but somehow still end up in the top four) so who knows.

Yeah the Spain story  :uhrr: :uhrr: :uhrr:

The president of Spanish soccer basically saying 'how dare you do this to ME so I'm fucking firing you' 

Dumbassery all around. Spain hadn't lost a match since he took over and they were looking strong going into the tournament. Oh vell!


I would love Belgium to win it all. Someone other than the usual suspects please! Dare I say I hope England does well too? Young, likable team.

Dear God, no. If England wins they will not shut up about it for the next 4 years. Everything will be "THE WORLD CHAMPIONS!!! are..." It's worse than the fucking Patriots. England are the worst winners on the goddam planet.

If course I'm Irish, so totally unbiased.  :grin:

fify

I was going to say. England still talks about their sole World Cup victory like it happened recently.

Rooting for Not Brazil and Not Germany. Go other people!

I would be rooting for Spain but fuck Sergio Ramos.

i'm rooting for widespread death from access to heroin and coke

Belgium or Iceland.

Iceland has some nice jerseys...  :awesome_for_real:

Some vendor should setup a street side Krokodil stand next to the stadiums.

Anyone have a line on a good online source for watching games?

Supposedly http://stream.telemundodeportes.com

But I can't get it to load.. Work for anyone?

Ronaldo going for the dive and being rewarded with a penalty. In other words, water is wet.

De Gea doing his best Karius impersonation.

Can both those teams lose?

Did Ronaldo steal something of yours? You have a serious problem.

Some of his tax money, actually.

Pointing out that he took the invitation by Nacho to get the penalty is not an indication of me having a serious problem. It’s Ronaldo’s MO and has been for most of his career. He is a diver and he’s always exaggerating contact to draw out a free kick or penalty. He’s as clever as Ramos in that he’ll mostly make it look like a “could be/couldn’t be” situation.

Nacho should have known better, Ronaldo is his team mate at Real and he knows Ronaldo’s style of play.

Don’t turn this into me being pathological though. Ronaldo just equaled the World Cup Record of Puscas, he is probably the best player in the world and when he’s on he’ll single handedly win you a game. That free kick into the corner was perfect.

He’s also a flip flopper and a diver though.

Fucking video review on penalty calls now?  Yeah I’m out. Fuck you divin.....annnd never mind I’m back in.  Didn’t need video replay on that call.   Who the fuck puts there hands in the air on a cross??

This is not beach volleyball.

Reminded me of (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ccNkksrfls)

Sucked to lose to a not-quite-clear VAR penalty (defender may have touched the ball first) and a fluke in-and-out bounce off the crossbar, when the penalty against the French was that handball.

It was a penalty and it was a goal.

Yeah it sucks to lose by such fine margins, but it was fair.

Yep. No sour grapes here, just the "sucks to lose by fine margins" thing.

However, there is a replay angle that clearly shows the Aussie player made contact with the ball before the player. It didn't seem to be available to the referee for the VAR decision, and I thought he was correct at the time, but having seen the angle that demonstrates contact with the ball on Australian TV this morning, I am now convinced that it was technically the wrong decision - but I don't blame the ref. I can't link it because FIFA's restrictions on social video sharing mean I have only seen it on TV, but it shows the ball change course from his foot before he has contact with the French player.

Kindred spirits with Leaf fans.

Good match from Mexico.  They are a fun team to watch.

The first half was a complete trainwreck by Germany. Midfield was absolute desolate

Except when their fans chant homophobic slurs.  Apparently, it's something a lot of Latin American fans do and other countries have been fined by FIFA for it.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/world-cup-2018/6554140/flamboyant-mexico-putin-world-cup-matches/

Wow, the Sun clutching its pearls about the fans of countries that are not England. Forsooth, pass yonder the smelling salts, for a I do suffer a case of the vapours.

It's not just them.  Using Google will show that to you.

https://www.outsports.com/2018/6/17/17472462/mexico-world-cup-fans-germany-puto-gay-slur

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/sports/world-cup/mexico-germany-score.html

https://www.hindustantimes.com/football/fifa-world-cup-2018-mexico-fans-chant-homophobic-slur-at-germany-goalkeeper-manuel-neuer/story-SMV62uKoEsnRtBtvFCh0EN.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/dcunited/the-latest-maradona-responds-to-report-of-racist-incident/2018/06/17/cabf3132-7215-11e8-bda1-18e53a448a14_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f5a1fc49c969

I feel like VAR is going to make the embellishment in the box even worse.

France Germany and Brazil all look underwhelming so far.

SHUSH YOU!

I'm not hitting a panic button after 1 game.... unless I am Germany   :grin:

What the shit Germany. Really.

Wasn't like Mexico got lucky, they outplayed Germany all fricken match.

It wasn't an elimination game, though...

 :psyduck:

Greatest tweet of the match. (https://twitter.com/mitchprothero/status/1008372983864418306)

I kept wondering who the fuck was playing right back because he was just NEVER there on defense, which is why they kept getting skinned on the counter so much. Both Hummels and Boateng clearly needed a little help and neither fullback ever really did that because they were constantly pushed forward. I was wondering if somehow Alberto Moreno had become German and I just didn't hear about it. But on the whole, Germany's team just never seemed all that connected. Service to Werner was terrible.

Ronaldo is a great player, one of the greatest, but his clear ego, his persistent diving and just his overall douchieness makes him an unlikable fuck. At least Messi has the good sense to let other people sing his greatness.

Matches being on early in the morning and gated by fox sports around here is really putting a damper on my viewing.  :oh_i_see:

So far Brasil and Spain are the clear favorites. Belgium can't be judged for a win over Panama, just as its hard to be sure how to judge Argentina for failing to  beat Iceland until both play another game.

For the rest of this week if I didn't have to work:
I'm interested to see both group H games.
If Portugal can handle Morroco decisively or if they barely get by or even worse trip on their dicks.
Denmark vs Aus could be a fun watch and if it isn't its probably because Denmark is good.
France vs Peru I think is just what France needs unless Deschamps pussies out of the type of lineup he used game one in which case I hope France loses and gets it over with. Tired of them wasting so much talent. I'm interested to see if Peru and/or Denmark are better than I think or if France demolishes them.
God I hope Croatia can pull some magic vs Argentina.

I'm not convinced by Spain or Brazil - both have seemed rather disconnected as a team. But then again, first games are often deceptive. That England needed 2 set piece goals to beat Tunisia... oof.

Well done Colombia, interesting game this.

Fuck off Russia.

All they need to do is hand out a single card for embellishment and that shit will stop instantly.  Especially if they can call it from the video review.

Also- Belgium scores pretty goals. The ball to Lukaku on the 2nd goal was fucking ridiculous video game shit. Wow.

(https://scontent.fdub4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35666936_10156233593960631_8153681324792610816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b86fb1d0965a32b6f1082f444578da21&oe=5BBEE430)

In talking with a soccer mad friend the use of VAR in several leagues this year has led to a reduction in the amount of diving. Hate when people bring actual facts to an argument (AUSTRALIA WAS ROBBED GODAMNIT)

From a recent NYT article.

I'm all for VAR. I actually think in the places it's been used, it's helped the game and unlike NFL's replays, it hasn't slowed down the progress of the game too much. The World Cup games I've watched where it's been used, there has been very little lag time to check before getting the game moving again. And yeah, if it cuts down on diving, even better. There will still be boneheaded decisions but more correct calls is better.

One thing I've noticed in the games I've watched, though, has been a fuckload of fouling on creative players. The Brazil/Switzerland game in particular was just chock full of Neymar getting the shit beat out of him with the refs refusing to give out yellow cards.

Yeah, that needs to stop. Except when it’s Pepe. He can get fucked.

Fuck Neymar. When he is not being actually fouled he is diving like an Olympic gold medalist into the deep end. Crying wolf eventually has consequences.

Yeah, I'm fine with fuck Neymar and all that but at some point I'd like SOME creative player to be able to dribble the ball without getting gang tackled by Sergio Ramos (who can get fucked with Pepe) and his 3 Amigos.

Look up the Milad Mohammadi throw-in for some lols.

Mildly cringeworthy. They did better than I thought against Spain... 2 near misses and 1 properly disallowed goal - even after turtling up the first half.

Argentina  :awesome_for_real:

Croatia are impressive though, definite contenders.

I waited 36 years to watch my country not manage to score one goal in two games.

The announcers are kinda infuriating. Glad to see this is universal across sports.

You know I'm going to the realization that this WC fucking blows. The lack of scoring, teams packing it in, the 1-1, 1-0 victories. The football is shit.

It’s being held in Russia.  Everything that country tocuches turns into grade A shit.

Watching this Iceland/Nigeria match and noticed every one on the Iceland side has a last name ending in 'son save the backup keeper.

https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/teams/team/43951/

Icelanders use the traditional Nordic naming system: their last name is comprised from their father's (or mother's) first name with the addition of -daughter or -son. See Björk Guðmundsdóttir.

There are only 21,500 registered football players in Iceland, which has a population of 330,000.

Iceland team manager Heimir Hallgrimsson was until recently a dentist.

Goalkeeper Hannes Halldórsson, who saved Messi’s penalty, is also professional filmmaker who directed a Coca-Cola ad (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdS6lVtzZdw).

They posted this on the official Iceland team Twitter... :)

(https://i.imgur.com/fGo42YX.jpg)

Actually today’s games were a little better , Swiss game was good

Bordering on a rugby match at times, but I agree... the last match was the most entertaining. I was pulling hard for Costa Rica just because I forgot how much I enjoyed their keeper, who I suddenly remember from last year. But Brasil just looked like the better team.

That is my new favorite picture, SirT.  I'm calling it "Italian foosball table"

I have a theory. The Russians are not only doping their own players, they are somehow drugging all the other teams to play shittier.

It's probably the food they are providing. Though my guess is Japan brought their own food along for the tournament.

Definitely picked up in the last two days.  That Kroos goal.  :uhrr:

Ah Sweden.. playing the prevent defense to prevent the tie.

On the one hand, I'm glad to see that playing for a tie was suitably punished by a crushing last minute shorthanded wonder goal. On the other hand, Germany looks like utter shit this tourney. Their defense has been routinely unable to handle the 1v1/1v2 counters, their fullbacks are nowhere to be found on defense. Kimmich looks like the ghost of Alberto Moreno out there. Their midfield is similarly unable to give service to anyone and I don't think it's just because both teams have bottled up and played on the counter. The team just looks disjointed as hell.

Belgium is another team that infuriates me. They are full of world class talent but I've yet to see that they actually play like a team for 90 minutes. Even though they won 5-2, it should never have been 2. They let off constantly and their backline of 3 with "fullbacks" who are wingers with no seeming defensive responsibilities at all makes them vulnerable to the counter, which all the shit teams are doing this tourney (and most World Cups). Tunisia is absolutely an argument for not expanding the World Cup to more teams, as they are shitty shit shit shit.

Are good fullbacks just that hard to find nowadays?

Lahm retired and he was absolutely key to Germany‘s succession 2014.

Also Neuer is coming off of a large injury break and not up too form  :why_so_serious:

Also England  :ye_gods:

This got me a chuckle ....

(https://i.imgur.com/AE74SzY.jpg)

Byebye germans

Man, this German team just ended up being a whole bunch of pretenders.

That was a pretty amazing turn of events this morning for that group. Good on SK for not rolling over because they were out of the tourney and exposing Germany.

My uncle Heinrich wrote them off after game one. He's from Bohn and he's like "They don't know how to cover one side of the field at all. They suck. We're not going to get out of this group."

Also he predicted the French will win it all, so there you go.

Good man right there...  :drill:

Not bringing Sane starting to look ominous. Theres obviously a multitude of reasons why they were bad, but thats a signifier.

Also not having any striker other than Werner and Gomez didn't seem to help. Werner is decent but not Klose quality.

Not playing Sane, starting Khedira twice?? Putting Mueller on the bench for the 3rd game. Starting shit, winning lucky and then radically switching up the lineup again so no consistency could be achieved.

Suck it Germany, you deserved that loss. 

Low will probably be USMNT HC by end of year  :oh_i_see:

Poor Germany.  But they should be used to losing world-wide contests by now...especially in Russia.

:rimshot:

Whole lot of these comments running today.  :awesome_for_real:

Auf Wiedersehen.

Have to hang this one on Lowe.  Germany were very poorly prepared for this cup. 

Belgium is looking very good.  They have a strong squad.  Too bad they are in the same leg as Brazil. 

*phew*

That was a pretty good match. Got quite chippy around the end, but ended well.  :drill:

Jesus that Uruguay/Portugal match  turned into a rugby match. I'm all for letting them play but ffs some of that shit was borderline red.

Yeah there were some really shitty tackles that weren't even called as fouls in that match. That was borderline irresponsible on the refs part because someone could have gotten really hurt. Unfortunately, there was also a shitload of diving too.

Too many shitheads crying foul and so the ref eventually deemed everything a dive. Fuck them that’s what you get for diving.

I agree.  Let them clobber each other.

Fair enough, but with VAR now available, it is still surprising some of those tackles were not reviewed and called.

VAR is only allowed to review goals (offside), penalties and possible red cards.

Yeah, and some of those tackles were egregious enough to warrant a look.

Oh dear.

Agreed.  Reap what you fucking sow.

Croatia v Denmark. If you didn't watch it, look up the highlights. Holy shit.

The bookend game. Sadly a whole lot of nothing in the middle.

*curses in Japanese*

Wow. That was the most exciting match yet.  :drill:

Best World Cup in a long time.

I've latched on to Belgium to cheer for since the US isn't in it.  I quit watching way too early.   :oh_i_see:

WOW. The Brazil/Mexico game was pretty good and I hate that the Mexican team is out. They actually went after one of the favorites instead of just turtling up like Russia did. Same goes for Japan, who played like crazy right up until the final whistle. This Belgium team is so loaded with talent but just something is missing. I think playing non-wingbacks in the wingback role and having De Bruyne play so deep is really blunting their attack. Similarly, I'm not sure why Brazil insists on starting Gabriel Jesus, who has looked mostly lost out there. Firmino should be starting with the form he's in.

sadly this is Brasil's to lose.

Belgium just isn't solid enough. France is our best hope but they may be too young and inconsistent and their coach is awful. The shine is off Croatia quite a bit after that struggle, they looked like they had no ideas against an organized defense and sadly this Brazilian defense is fairly organized.

lol England. It'd take some amazing stuff to believe in the Swiss or Swedes who just don't have nearly the talent imo.

This looks more and more like Brazil’s cup to lose. I’m going to dream of an England - Belgium final where there are 10 goals scored and England loses on penalties.  :grin:

Am I the only person who thinks it's fucking dumb you can decide an elimination game on penalty kicks?

At least the NHL only does that shit during the regular season.

Whats the alternative? Play on till first goal scored?

There was a time where association footbal did exactly that. Extra time went on until either team scored. This practice was abandoned because some matches tended to go on for hours and I believe - if I remember correctly - that one particular match went on for more than a day.

The home/away or group modes for international tournaments was one reaction to that (including the "away goal" tie breaker rule). For matches in a knock out round of a tournament association football changed to a mode where matches would either be repeated at a later date or be decided by a coin toss if extra time ended on a draw. Rescheduling matches in an international cup that only has a limited time until the final is almost impossible though and it would put the teams that had to repeat matches at a disadvantage. The coin toss was just flat out unpopular.

Penalty shootouts were a compromise that was first introduced in 1970 by UEFA and the English FA and which were later adopted by FIFA as a whole. The advantage is that you have a guaranteed end to a knockout match which makes tournaments much easier to schedule. A home/away style knockout stage like in the UEFA champions league would make the knockout stage of a world cup take twice as long (so the tournament would take 2 months) and you'd still need a tie breaker if both legs ended on a 0:0 draw.

It's basically a compromise that best fits all of the different requirements that a tournament mode needs to satisfy.

Another reason is that fans love penalty shootouts even if they claim otherwise. There have been several attempts to abolish penalty shootouts or to make them less common. The last one being the "golden goal" rule (similar to "sudden death" in hockey) where extra time ended once a goal was scored. All of those attempts have failed because of the resistance of the fans. Fans like the extra time/penalty shootout mode too much.

They should go to extra time, 10min halves - but each extra time each team loses a player.  :why_so_serious:

I'm fine with penalty shootouts as the alternatives all seem to suck or turn the tournament into an international cricket test match.  :why_so_serious:

How about play it like the NHL, ball at the midfield line and attacker gets a running start.

The apocalypse is near, england won a penalty shootout.

Maybe if the teams didn't turtle as much, you wouldn't have games then dragged on as much.

It somehow works for hockey, which is undoubtedly more physical - you basically have to go to war to win in the playoffs there.

The game was an utter and absolute shitshow with an abysmal ref. It was also pretty entertaining.

Yeah that ref lost control early and never gained it back no matter how many yellows he showed. He needed to drop a second yellow on some of those fuckers. Colombia in particular seemed really interested in starting fights though they weren't the only ones. Jordan Henderson getting booked for his silly little head nudge then missing a penalty... oooooof. In the end, I'm not entirely sure the better team won because once England got a goal up, they just seemed unable to string 2 passes together in the final third no matter what.

As for teams turtling, it's only going to get worse if they add another 16 teams to the tournament. It's what made the 2016 Euros suck so hard. But when faced with a side like Brazil or Spain, I don't blame the lesser teams for doing it. Shit, it worked for Russia.

It has always been that way to some extent. Italy was very successful for a long time with an ultra defensive setup. Turtle up, let the other team run their heads against the wall for 90 or 120 minutes and then pounce once they’re exhausted. Games against an Italian side were usually awful 0:0 draws that ended on penalties or with a late goal in the hundredth-something minute.

See the 2006 Germany vs. Italy World Cup semifinal for an example where Italy won in the 119th minute.

It’s a destructive tactic because it punishes the side that plays to win in regular time and turns the games into snooze fests but it is hard to score against a side that runs a 10-0-0 setup and is just defending and looking out for the occasional counter attack.

You can win entire world cups with that tactic though. (again see Italy for an example)

The current WC shows again that there are not that many options for attacking teams to break up a back five formation that is well organized, you’ll need to be lucky or good at penalties.

They should just skip right to penalties after the 90 minute regulation time.  I have rarely seen a team score in that 30 minutes of additional time.  One I clearly note is when de Bruyne burned the US last cup.  Seems like a waste of time, generally, though.

I love that Maradona is claiming that the refs screwed Colombia.  Mr. "Hand of God" himself is clearly qualified to call people out when it comes to cheating.   :oh_i_see:

A competent ref would’ve probably meant that Colombia only had nine men on the field. If anything he was too nice to Colombia.

This. But yeah, Mr. Middle Fingers of God has zero reason to complain about the refs jobbing someone.

Fuck yeah.  That was one of the more thuggish sides I've seen.  England had their share of dipshit stuff, but I'm surprised Colombia didn't send someone in with a crowbar to take out Kane's knee Nancy Kerrigan style.

Well to be fair, those guys were playing with their lives on the line. I'm sure that one player who missed off the crossbar is going to be gunned down by August. I would love to say I'm joking, but shit is a little too real in that country.

As I understand it, things are a little better down there than they were back in Valderrama's playing days.  I'm sure it's not perfect, but I doubt any of them will be murdered.

Suck it, Brazil. Neymar's diving histrionics are a fucking embarrassment to the sport. Simulation should be reviewable both during and after matches, with cards handed out appropriately.

Welcome to the Euro 2018.

Neymar, the boy who cried wolf. Brazil denied at least one penalty today because that team dived so much that everyone stopped giving a fuck and assumed everything was a dive.

Fuck Neymar. He should have been double yellowed and sent off for as much bitchy diving as he did and despite being a huge fan of Coutinho and Firmino, I'm glad Brazil lost. Why Tite persisted in starting Gabriel Jesus over Firmino, I have no idea. Belgium was so much better today with Fellaini in midfield to help Weitsel, who has looked overwhelmed most of the tournament.

The other 2 quarterfinal matches I expect to be extremely boring, grinding affairs.

Been traveling across Asia with my Dad for the last two weeks, so have actually had to the chance to watch a bunch of World Cup games because thats whats playing in all the bars and hotel restaurants when we go out for the night (normally I never bother watching).

It’s been ok, but based on what I saw, they should probably just skip straight to the penalty kick shoot out to decide who wins the game and call it a day for each match.

First real challenge for England will be the final vs. either Belgium or France.

Easiest run since Germany‘s in 2002.

Yeah, that side of the brackets has been full of some really bullshit easy games compared to the side with France, Belgium and Brazil.

 :drill: :drill: :drill:

One more please...

France's back 4 (and Pogba) are winning this tournament for them. They are a fortress, especially in the air. Very impressed. Was rooting for Belgium, but now I think I want to see France beat England for maximum comedy value.

Having a player like N'Golo Kante in front of France is invaluable.

Two very evenly matched sides meant that both didn't have many opportunities to score. Beautiful game but could have easily gone to extra time or penalties because both kept neutralising each other very well.

That's when a good standard after a dead ball can make al the difference and it did.

Belgium started with Fellaini in the middle instead of Mertens or Carrasco out wide, says it all about their ambitions. One from the Dour-inho handbook.

Man if Croatia pulls this out, they are going to be the walking dead this weekend... FFS, 3 extra time matches in a row?

As soon as a competent and experienced team put on the pressure England fell completely apart.

Wow. what a match.


Eh, they didn't look bad. Could have gone either way.

England and Belgium for yet another throw away game.  :awesome_for_real:

I hope it is just Kane and Lukaku just taking shots while the rest of their teams watch on the side.

First half I agree, once Sterling left they were out of ideas though.  They didn’t have a single serious attempt at a goal beyond the 65th minute.

You could see it getting to them.

Young team. Experience beat them today. Four years from now it’ll probably be a different story

Called it  :grin:

A blind kid at the local radio station said Croatia too. :)

England definitely took their foot off the gas in the second half.

England was exhausted. Their only real chance in the 2nd half/extra time was some long ball up the pitch for Kane, who was ineffective all game long.

France are gonna bum Croatia. Like 3-0.

I would have liked a France-England final just to see France beat them across the pitch. The anguished tears on the UK channels would have been glorious. As it was they were practically throwing themselves off a cliff on the ITV Channel.  :why_so_serious:

Ah well, we will get to see Belgium murdering them on Saturday.

France looked good during Euro 2016.  I thought they might go all the way this time.

England got way too many of their goals on set pieces, which told you that their attack wasn't doing much in open play. Alli seemed mostly useless and wasteful all tourney, as was Lingard, Sterling was Sterling (meaning he was fast as hell but with horrible shooting or crossing) and I still can't figure out why Kyle Walker was used as a center back in a 3-man defense as opposed to a wingback. I still don't see what the fuss is about Stones either - he has good ball skills but his defensive attention span is practically nil. Trippier looks good from the dead ball and dead from the live one. Ashley Young is not a better choice at LB over Danny Rose. I'm not necessarily saying there were better options, mind you, but England lucked their way into the semis.

As for Belgium and Fellaini, I think he was a better choice than Weitsel, who has looked completely out of his depth all tournament.

It's not going to happen but Croatia winning the Worldcup would be awesome.

I want Croatia to win just because they beat Russia and players taunted them with pro-Ukrainian slogans (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/987590/World-Cup-2018-Croatia-defender-booed-Russia-fans-over-Ukraine-comments) afterwards.     :awesome_for_real:

You really should give him a regular slot.

BTW because only Reddit seemed to have noticed.

England tried to kick-off and score while Croatia were still celebrating the 2:1.

Apart from the cuntiness and lack of sportsmanship it's funny for several reasons

1. It's impossible because the rules of the game don't allow this. (e.g. opposing team needs to be in their own half during kick off)
2. England should know that it won't work because of the Panama game
3. Panama tried the same "strategy" during the England vs. Panama game and got mercilessly mocked by the English press and team because of the stupidity

and finally: England managed to still make the resulting "goal" be offside if it were allowed.

Fake alternative facts!!

 :why_so_serious:

 :drill: :drillf: :drill: :drillf:

Two problematic Ref/Var decisions gave France two goals.

Griezmann’s Flop led to the free kick. The handball decision gave them the penalty.

 Colored perception of the final and made it a more negative spin that it should have been

I disagree. The Griezman thing was a bit of a flop in that he pretty much invited the contact but I still see a foul there. The handball decision though was absolutely right in my opinion. While the player didn't really know much about it, his hand did move towards the ball (whether by accident or not) and it's something I could easily see the ref having missed in real time. The benefit of the replay is that he got to see it again at full speed from a different angle, and he got it right.

I think it was a great game to watch personally and I didn't really have a cheering interest in either time other than to see good players playing well. Kylian Mbappe is just goddamn amazing.

That handball was the right call, so not that problematic when that is the reason for VAR.

As for the flop, *shrug* maybe, but it was convincing enough.

edit: Kante getting a yellow was a bit much for me at the beginning.

And I am on a streak of 2 Cups calling the winner.  :awesome_for_real:

The N'Golo Kante yellow card was extremely ridiculous.

Two reasons why I have issues with the handball rule and how it is applied.

- what constitutes handball is not clearly defined and this leads to all kinds of confusion.  VAR will only make it worse.
- at a certain point we're penalizing a defensive reflex designed to protect vital areas like the head from injury and it's not even been discussed if that should even be penalized in the first place

Handball being somewhat of a gray area would be less of a problem if a handball call wasn't such a huge - possibly game changing - deal. If the consequences are minor, then it's not that much of a big deal if a rule can't be clearly applied to every situation or is somewhat murky. That's why I'm less angry about that free kick and how it came about. A free kick usually amounts to nothing and I can't blame France for Mandzukic heading it in.

A handball is a mandatory yellow or even red card though and leads to a penalty if it happens in the box. It could lead to a team being one man down or one goal down or both and in a game where scores are usually low and a 0:0 is a pretty likely outcome this is a big deal. The rule and the application of the rule should be absolutely crystal clear and evenly applied in that case because it could be a match deciding decision. Additionally the broad implementation of VAR will lead to many more reviews of potential handball situations leading to many more potentially game-deciding devisions in the future. So VAR and unevenly applied rules will decide games.

Also at a certain point we're penalizing a defensive reflex designed to protect vital areas like the head from injury. A soccer ball can get up to a speed of 120 km/h or 75m/h for a serious goal attempt and the penalty area only extends 18 yards to each side of the goal and 18 yards in front of it. I once got such a ball directly on my left eye and was blind for two weeks because a whole slew of blood vessels in my eye burst and was lucky that I got away without any lasting injuries. We're asking players to untrain an unconscious reflex designed to prevent serious injuries and to potentially "react" or better don't react in a fraction of a second.

According to the rules of the game it's a handball if "any player except the goal keeper inside the penalty area deliberately handles the ball when in play" and that a hand ball should not be awarded when a player "is ruled to have handled the ball accidentally".

Both terms are not clearly defined and the current guidance for referees is that it should be a "hand or arm motion that is untypical for sooccer".

TL;DR: I'm not okay with a potential game deciding decicion being so badly defined, implemented and applied, when VAR will lead to many more calls and reviews of that particular offense.

I hear what you are saying and can agree with most of it, but not in the case of this past match. It was clearly a handball and his hand was not even close to being a part of his torso or thigh. Might not have been any intent and I certainly do not think he meant to get his hand in the way - so incidental. It should be handled differently than say an intentional sticking your arm out to impede the ball moving, but as it is now it was a cut and dry handball in the box.

Who knew soccer would have its very own catch-rule.

It was an accidental handball which is probably why he did not receive a yellow card for it. I don't have a problem with accidental handballs being called as penalties or fouls - sometimes it is just not possible to NOT handle the ball, but just saying "if it touches your hand, it's a handball" is too harsh. Leaving it up to the refs discretion is also fine, IMO, and while I agree the definition could be a little more defined, having VAR means that anywhere from 1-4 refs including the ref get to weigh in on the decision after reviewing evidence. That they still came out with a handball in that case seems like the right call.

VAR can only mark things for review, it’s still the Ref on the pitch who makes the call.

The free kick was a bogus call but its a miss a human will make and it is only a problem because it resulted in a goal.

The PK was truly unfair in terms of the flow of the game but it was the correct call. Hand in unnatural position, moving towards the ball, diverting it from going on frame. Its a PK for me for sure.

I'm glad it was France but I'm sad for Croatia they worked so hard and it was their only shot for probably 16+ years.

At least it was a competitive game. The score flattered France because Croatia really did dominate the game, they just couldn't get their shots to go in.

Yeah seriously. Croatia had time of possession, shots, passes, and corners in their favor but just couldn't connect save for that stellar shot Perisic buried. But if you take out all the goals that you could raise a question about, Lloris's mental fuck up, the handball, and Griezman's free kick off Mandzukic's head then France still wins 2-1. I'm just glad Pogba got a nice goal this tournament - he was doing a lot of behind the scenes work the entire tourney (though a lot of his passes today came off as lazy/uninspired).

They dominated the first half. France defended deeper in the second and Coratia didn't have much of a shout, and got punished badly.

Of course being 2-1 up/down at half time kind of meant that that second half was likely to play out that way, but France still ended it.

No surprise to see Jeff complaining about decisions in line with his bias...

The penalty was tight, and France got it having done nothing to deserve it, but it was not a bullshit call.

The free kick was not a free kick, but that happens. Not every free kick leads to a goal, so you can't complain that it was a game changing bad mistake - it was just an unlucky own goal.

Croatia were unlucky in the first half and played very well, but France rolled them in the second and could have ended it 5-1 if it wasn't for some silly mistakes on their part. They deserved the win.

Look I know that my opinion is colored by who I'd like to have won. France had a very deserved win I can#t deny that.

It doesn't invalidate my point though if you apply it to the tournament as a whole because it highlights issues we'll probably see much more of once VAR has been rolled out to all leagues and tournaments.

With other calls they accounted for VAR. FIFA for example changed the handling of offside due to VAR. The linesmen are asked to signal difficult offsides after the goal attempt has been completed. That's because VAR is allowed to review goals and thus can retroactively call a goal offsides but can't review a wrong offsides call by a lineman that stops an attempt (Additionally that won't make much sense anyway because even if it could, the offsides call would have stopped the flow of the attack anyway)

VAR can only review a simulation attempt if it satisfies one of the criteria that have been defined for VAR reviews: goal/non goal decisions and potential red card offences. So this will most likely only matter to simulation attempts that lead to a penalty. A handball will very likely satisfy one or both of those criteria much more often though given how a deliberate hand ball is supposed to be penalized.

We've already seen lots of VAR-related handball calls at this WC and if this is indicative of a trend we'll probably see a lot more handball calls/non-calls and contests going forward with VAR.

Given how inconsistently the handball rule is applied it's not something I'm particularly looking forward to.

I don't really have a problem with it. On the balance I think VAR at this world cup was a huge success.

That was about as handball as you get, don't see the confusion.

And yeh, Croatia really lacked a cutting edge for most of the tournament. I lost a bit of belief in them after the Denmark game, all the same they showed great character to get to the final.

The confusion in the handball rule probably stems from the word deliberate. The important bit is whether you could have prevented handling the ball by managing your body better in that situation and if you didn't this can be deemed a deliberate act. e.g. If you run around the penalty box waving your arms around the place and the ball hits one of them, you may not have deliberately made contact with the ball but your actions which led to ball hitting your arms were deliberate.

The word deliberate is in there because otherwise strikers would just try and hit the extremities of defenders and try to coax penalties out of that.

Guys I have found out something that no one else has reported on.

DID YOU KNOW THAT GARETH SOUTHGATE EVEN ATTENDED AN NBA GAME TO LEARN MORE ABOUT CREATING BETTER SET PIECES??

holy fuck.

Seriously?

Yes: https://talksport.com/football/397402/revealed-tactics-gareth-southgate-england-tactics-set-pieces-nba/

He knows people throw the ball with their hands there?

Um perhaps I should've put my post in green text.

Ah, my mistake then.

Well there's also a part of the rule that states distance the ball travelled must be taken into account.

Worth a read. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4524354.stm)

Yeah I know.

Distance travelled should be considered because if the distance is short the player may not have enough time to even react or to only react unconsciously.
The VAR review provides the referee footage in super slow motion though. I don't think that you can correctly gauge speed and distance over time if you're reviewing an incident with 1000 fps footage and could potentioly single step through the incident in 1 ms increments.

The trouble with that and the wording deliberate is completely counteracted by the fact that muscle memory and instincts play a major part in football and similar sports, basketball etc. From my own experiences playing you do things in a split second and afterwards you had no idea that you were first capable of it and it wasn't something you preconceived, you just did it intuitively. But this also has a negative effect where sometimes you may unintentionally move your arm towards the ball to stop it. This was the case with the Perisic penalty, he didn't intentionally move his arm towards the ball, he just instinctively blocked it with his hand when he should have kept it away.

Perisic is also a volleyball player and has played in at least one professional tournament.

I can totally understand if it was his volleyball reflexes taking over in that moment.

Ha, I didn't know that, would totally make sense.

 The chant 'Kante, he is small, he is nice, he shutdown Lionel Messi' (https://www.theringer.com/soccer/2018/7/16/17578634/ngolo-kante-france-2018-world-cup-winners-final-croatia-russia) might be the best thing about France winning.

I actually thought I heard the broadcasters say that the refs can't look at calls in super-slo-mo, they have to look at it in real-time.

according to Wikipedia it should be both.

“There are guidelines the referee and the VAR should follow in conducting a video review. For example, slow motion should only be used for "point of contact" offences, such as physical offences and handballs. Regular speed should be used to determine the intensity of an offence and whether a handball was deliberate”

If you don't want to get hit by the ball, perhaps in the hand and get a penalty for it...maybe don't jump in front of the ball?

I like the World Cup format generally, and thought the final was a good game...but holy hell is there some whining when it comes to soccer/football/whatever.

 - No game is going to be perfectly called. That being said, that free kick was not an assured goal, but at the same time it wasn't luck - he made the right play to put the ball into a scoring position off the kick. Deflections happen, even off the opposing team. That's why you get the ball to the front of the net - good things can happen.

- Accidental or not, that's a handball, and no amount of kvetching will change that. The arm is off the side of the body, it's not blocking anything "vital," and in fact moved down to the path of the ball.

- Third France goal was a horrendous play by Croatia. Weak defense, poor defensive awareness, and then the goalie gets zero jump on that ball.

- Fourth France goal saw the same flatfootedness from the Croatia keeper, soft defense in front, and he makes zero play off of what is essentially a straight unscreened shot.

However, that late Croatia goal was a result of pure stupidity from the French keeper. Seriously, what the fuck - get rid of the ball.

Still an entertaining game, and a much better result for most viewers than the usual low-scoring/low-risk affair.