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Author Topic: Thor: Ragnarok  (Read 4457 times)
HaemishM
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Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


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Reply #70 on: November 05, 2017, 12:30:22 AM

Oh yeah, he is HILARIOUS. I thought the voice of Korg was done by Murray from Flight of the Conchords but it was Waititi. And I saw him reading some mean tweets or something and he was great.

SurfD
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Reply #71 on: November 05, 2017, 01:21:36 AM

got a link to the Interview where he explains where he got the idea for the voice? 

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #72 on: November 05, 2017, 01:47:33 AM

One of the champion heads was Beta Ray Bill. Not the cameo I wanted but Iíll take the nod.

As for Korg? All I heard was this: https://youtu.be/3cPs2SzShNc

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
jgsugden
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Reply #73 on: November 05, 2017, 04:49:01 PM

Great film. Lots of fun. The only downside for me was that it made me really really really want a Hulk solo film.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Khaldun
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Reply #74 on: November 05, 2017, 07:34:50 PM

Tons of fun, wholly satisfying.

Speaking of Beta Ray Bill, the ship everyone ends up on at the end looks awfully like Scuttlebutt, Beta Ray Bill's intelligent ship. And the situation of the Asgardians is rather like Beta Ray Bill's people, really.  I assume given the number of Easter Eggs that this is 100% on purpose. Haven't seen that in the Easter Egg roundups so far, but it struck me as pretty unmistakeable.



Khaldun
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Reply #75 on: November 06, 2017, 06:18:08 AM

I did realize that there's one other oddity here, which is


Oh, and while I'm at it,

Ironwood
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Reply #76 on: November 06, 2017, 06:23:07 AM

got a link to the Interview where he explains where he got the idea for the voice? 


https://youtu.be/tzNT2N6ugKg


"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
NowhereMan
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Reply #77 on: November 06, 2017, 08:43:39 AM

I did realize that there's one other oddity here, which is


In response to this (cause it was something I was thinking about in the film):


"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Ironwood
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Reply #78 on: November 06, 2017, 09:14:38 AM

Time on Planet Hulk goes at different rates depending on the portal.  Valk woman could have got there 10 days ago or not.  It didn't matter much, but it wasn't a plot hole as such.  They explained it well enough.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
HaemishM
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Reply #79 on: November 06, 2017, 10:09:54 AM

Everyone in Asgard knew about the Valkyrie because it was a well-told bedtime story, at least that's the way Thor made it sound.

Khaldun
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Reply #80 on: November 06, 2017, 10:17:25 AM

Forgot about the time-dilation thing, that's a good out.

And yeah, it did seem a bit like "these were the legendary warriors of a forgotten time", so it's cool.

Interesting also that

Mandella
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Reply #81 on: November 13, 2017, 03:59:29 PM

Whew. Saw this last week, but took my time coming to this thread just in case you guys were hating on it...   awesome, for real

That said, I almost hated it, but ended up loving it. The thing is I'm pretty good with living under a rock in regards to promotion. I hadn't seen any trailers and went in mostly spoiler free (I did know the Hulk would be there somewhere, but that was about it). So I had no idea it was going to be a madcap buddy comedy that takes its inspiration from Big Trouble in Little China, and then dials it up. So it took me a bit to shift mental gears enough to really appreciate the jokes.


It helped that the jokes and physical comedy were really, really funny to me. I saw no bad chemistry at all between characters, and really had no idea that Cate Blanchett had that much humor in her. The whole "pulling her hair back like a middle aged housewife about the clean the toilet" mannerism she had going kept cracking me up.

And as for plot holes and MCU continuity, remember that, although they dropped the affectation pretty quickly, the movie starts with voice over by Thor explaining the situation. So as far as I'm concerned the whole thing is from Thor's point of view as he is retelling it at a bar somewhere/somewhen. I think it would be accurate to call him an unreliable narrator.

Criticisms: I did love the humor. I did. But. I liked the Guardians of the Galaxy approach better, and I think it is more sustainable for future movies. Taika Waititi just has no respect. There is no scene too poignant to not crack a joke during to break the mood. There is no way he could do a Drax/Mantis scene, or Yondu's funeral. He'd have to have somebody fart or something. James Gunn knows how to dial it back and get serious for a minute, Waititi just doesn't care.

That said, I didn't care either for the length of the movie. I just don't want that to become a thing.

And since it wouldn't be me without some otherwise unobserved conspiracy theory/fan headcanon (no mention of The Milano here either!):

HaemishM
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Reply #82 on: November 13, 2017, 04:20:50 PM

Well...


Mandella
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Reply #83 on: November 13, 2017, 04:34:49 PM

Well...


Hmmm. So an even deeper conspiracy then.

Khaldun
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Reply #84 on: November 13, 2017, 08:54:32 PM

Current thinking is that the entire MCU is heading towards a giant reboot after Avengers 4--I almost wouldn't be surprised if they ended up with some version of "some cosmic dude has been pulling your strings to get you ready for Thanos, so...portals".
SurfD
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Reply #85 on: November 14, 2017, 03:22:12 AM

Well, In the original planet hulk story, the portal that sucked stuff onto the planet was a construct that had been specifically created to attract powerful beings so that a faction of the planets natives could use them for their own purposes (the portal had an effect attached that severely weakened anything that passed through it, allowing easy capture of anything that survived the trip).   I did kind of like the twist they did for the movie, where they sort of turned Sakarr into a cosmic garbage collection center, with hundreds of portals just dumping stuff on it.  Wouldn't be much of a stretch to imagine the Quinnjet just getting randomly sucked up by an unstable portal.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Mandella
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Reply #86 on: November 14, 2017, 11:30:48 AM

Sigh.. Another friend said he just assumed Dr Strange did it.

 Ohhhhh, I see.
Soulflame
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Reply #87 on: November 14, 2017, 12:05:30 PM

It's actually possible that Strange was involved with getting Hulk off of Earth.  He said that the sorcerers are watching for individuals they consider dangerous, and the Hulk certainly qualifies.
jgsugden
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Reply #88 on: November 14, 2017, 12:11:32 PM

They also clarified in Dr. Strange that they worry only about mystical threats - and Hulk is not (while Loki is).

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Jimbo
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Reply #89 on: November 16, 2017, 03:05:16 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7i3YtGs7gc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMyx3cVUr6s

Lol not sure how they could do this, but would be a cool Jimmy Fallon and the Roots like they did with Metallica.
Goumindong
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Reply #90 on: November 16, 2017, 03:21:48 PM

I did realize that there's one other oddity here, which is


Oh, and while I'm at it,




All of that is true and, i think, 100% intentional. This is a movie about coming to grips with colonialism. The Valkyrie get remembered in the same way we remember things from our per-colonial eras despite not having an actual connection or even understanding of what they did
Khaldun
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Reply #91 on: November 16, 2017, 05:19:02 PM

Yeah, I think that's right. The seriousness of the underlying story is being ignored by some viewers.
jgsugden
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Reply #92 on: November 16, 2017, 07:30:12 PM

I'm not so sure the undercurrent beneath the story was as intentional as many assume it was. I think there is a lot in this story that reflects those that created it, but I do not think there were as many discussions about what lies just beneath the surface as some of the commentary on the film assumes.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Khaldun
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Reply #93 on: November 16, 2017, 07:53:16 PM

It's 100% intentional. Look up the director. How can you be this interested in this stuff and be missing stuff this fundamental?
jgsugden
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Reply #94 on: November 17, 2017, 02:18:06 AM

If you'd be kind enough to point me to an article where anyone behind the story talks about it being an intentional choice I'd appreciate it. 

I agree the elements are there. The question for me was whether it was an intentional choice or just a reflection of those who created it working naturally into the film. Who the director is supports both possibilities.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Ironwood
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Reply #95 on: November 17, 2017, 03:35:12 AM

 Ohhhhh, I see.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #96 on: November 17, 2017, 05:19:42 AM

There are movies that are subtle with their undertones, these movies are often taught in film class or discussed and debated for decades to uncover the true motives of the director.  This was not one of those movies.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Khaldun
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Reply #97 on: November 17, 2017, 06:12:38 AM

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/11/05/thor-ragnarok-taika-waititi-very-kiwi-comedy

http://mashable.com/2017/11/08/thor-ragnarok-themes-colonialism/#GA59iaKR0ZqN

https://www.villagevoice.com/2017/11/10/thor-ragnarok-marvel-from-a-postcolonial-perspective/

https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/31-10-2017/thor-and-his-magic-patu-notes-on-a-very-maori-marvel-movie/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/magazine/the-superweirdo-behind-thor-ragnarok.html

On and on. Waititi is known for a lot of very deliberate attention to Maori perspectives and to the perspective of formerly colonized peoples, not just in his films but in other work he does, like making PSAs and in community benefits, etc.

The film literally knocks off the old art of Asgard's history off the ceiling of the throne room to reveal the truth: Asgard was built on conquest and pillage and then deceit, so that its younger people don't ever have to think of themselves that way. You think that's an accident? Do you watch a performance of Hamlet and think, "Yeah, but do we have any interviews with Shakespeare to be sure that it's about the psychological experience of indecision? Because that's just an interpretation, you know."
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #98 on: November 17, 2017, 07:33:21 AM

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/11/05/thor-ragnarok-taika-waititi-very-kiwi-comedy

http://mashable.com/2017/11/08/thor-ragnarok-themes-colonialism/#GA59iaKR0ZqN

https://www.villagevoice.com/2017/11/10/thor-ragnarok-marvel-from-a-postcolonial-perspective/

https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/31-10-2017/thor-and-his-magic-patu-notes-on-a-very-maori-marvel-movie/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/magazine/the-superweirdo-behind-thor-ragnarok.html

On and on. Waititi is known for a lot of very deliberate attention to Maori perspectives and to the perspective of formerly colonized peoples, not just in his films but in other work he does, like making PSAs and in community benefits, etc.

The film literally knocks off the old art of Asgard's history off the ceiling of the throne room to reveal the truth: Asgard was built on conquest and pillage and then deceit, so that its younger people don't ever have to think of themselves that way. You think that's an accident? Do you watch a performance of Hamlet and think, "Yeah, but do we have any interviews with Shakespeare to be sure that it's about the psychological experience of indecision? Because that's just an interpretation, you know."


For the record, I'm agreeing with this. I thought the colonization aspect was pretty fucking blatant.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
jgsugden
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Reply #99 on: November 17, 2017, 09:48:43 AM

Did you read those or just do a quick search and link? Because they're almost all entirely about what people not responsible for the film are saying about it. They state their opinion, but it is not a statemental from the pole making the film.

The first four articles contain pretty much no statements from the people creating the film, at all. The last, lengthy one, has a lot about cgi, bringing cultural tones to the set, character decisions, editing and a variety of other topics, but not one statement that says 'colonialism' and comes from anyone making the film. That is explicitly what I am asking about. One tweet. One sentence in an interview. Did I miss the statement somewhere in one of those articles?

If you're missing my dustinction, If you tasked 10 very good authors with writing a short story based upon (and true to) the same outline, you'd get 10 very different works. Even if you asked them to limit their themes to what was described in the outline, you'll see other themes in the stories... some of which may still reflect intentional choices, but some of which are going to be mnifestations of the authors writing from their own experience.

I'm asking whether colonialism was on the wall of the secret brainstorming room.  Was Marvel planning on making a film where a son learns that his father was not so perfect and that he needs to be better (which then evolved into Odin was a conquering jerk who whitewashed history because of who told the story), or did Marvel say, "We want to tell a colonialism tale here... you know who would do it well?  Waititi."  Was this something that was explicitly planned or just a natural evolution?

Go back and look at what Tolkien had to say about his Middle Earth books and whether they were an allegory for the World Wars. Countless pages are written on what he intended...
How the ring is the bomb.  How the Hobbits are the French.  How Rohan is America.  Only problem? Tolkien says he never intended any of it.
That doesn't mean it is not there, only that it came into being as a manifestation of the world he saw rather than as an intentional choice that he made as he wrote the story. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngbeyond/rings/influences.html

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Shannow
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Reply #100 on: November 17, 2017, 09:55:36 AM

Thanks for those articles Khaldun, they were great. Ack so many easter eggs I didn't pick up on.


On another note having the older Hemsworth brother playing his brother in the play.. DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Someone liked something? Who the fuzzy fuck was this heretic? You don't come to this website and enjoy something. Fuck that. ~ The Walrus
Mandella
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Reply #101 on: November 17, 2017, 11:41:18 AM


I'm asking whether colonialism was on the wall of the secret brainstorming room.  Was Marvel planning on making a film where a son learns that his father was not so perfect and that he needs to be better (which then evolved into Odin was a conquering jerk who whitewashed history because of who told the story), or did Marvel say, "We want to tell a colonialism tale here... you know who would do it well?  Waititi."  Was this something that was explicitly planned or just a natural evolution?

Go back and look at what Tolkien had to say about his Middle Earth books and whether they were an allegory for the World Wars. Countless pages are written on what he intended...
How the ring is the bomb.  How the Hobbits are the French.  How Rohan is America.  Only problem? Tolkien says he never intended any of it.
That doesn't mean it is not there, only that it came into being as a manifestation of the world he saw rather than as an intentional choice that he made as he wrote the story. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngbeyond/rings/influences.html

Thank you for that. I was coming here to post something similar, but you did it better.

Look, Waititi obviously used the themes and symbols he was comfortable and experienced with using, and personally I'm really happy he chose to make the nice guy Asgardian Empire founded on conquest and colonialism. But saying Thor:Ragnarok was *about* dealing with the end products of conquest and colonialism is about the same as saying Big Trouble in Little China was *about* the value of multiculturalism.

It's intellectual wankery, and not even the good kind, and I'm disappointed this thread has descended into it.
Ironwood
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Reply #102 on: November 17, 2017, 12:04:51 PM

Heh.  Glad you didn't post if he did it better.

You're wrong.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Mandella
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Reply #103 on: November 17, 2017, 12:22:46 PM

Heh.  Glad you didn't post if he did it better.

You're wrong.


What? Because I agree that Thor was a madcap, silly comedy taking place in a science fiction setting founded on Asgardian Imperialism? That part is pretty obvious, and maybe ballsy considering that some viewers will be offended by casting the Asgardians in anything other than a noble light, but what insights did Waititi actually bring to the table here on the subject? The Asgardians claimed their protectorate by conquest. Okay. Got it. Odin kinda regrets it, but not so far as to allow self rule -- except for Earth, which for some reason is the planet in the Nine Realms that they have a hands off policy to.

This is a setting, not a discussion, not a revelation. It's not what the movie is about. It's a subtext at best, and a good one, but it's not deep. But neither do I say it's not there.
jgsugden
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Reply #104 on: November 17, 2017, 01:01:37 PM

To be clear - When I say I am not so sure it was an intentional choice, I mean I am not sure.  It could have been, it might not have been - and I am looking forward to hearing more about how the story was developed.

Did Marvel want to tell this as a colonialism tale and that intent influenced the choice of director?  Did they bring him an outline of a family drama between Odin and Thor where Thor learns his father created Hela through bad parenting - only to have TW pitch it back to them that Odin wasn't just a bad father, but was complicit (along with all of Ashgard) in Hela's conquering?  Or did they never discuss colonialism at all and it just manifest on the page as the way in which Odin did wrong in the past (a natural manifestation given the director)? 

I'm legit curious about how this developed.  I'm just not making assumptions.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
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