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Author Topic: Legion Pre-Expansion Patch Hits - everything changes  (Read 13603 times)
Setanta
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Reply #315 on: December 17, 2016, 02:21:15 PM

When I unsubbed a few months ago the "make the game for the hardcore" rot was already there. Linking quests to mythic only dungeons/no LFG was not an oversight, it was a deliberate philosophy. They didn't learn from Wildstar's mistakes at all. For some reason they see their game as the holy grail of MMOs, but it isn't because anything that splits a user base is just shit.  The artifact system screwed over alts. Every expansion I would cap my alts out for diversity in playstyle. I'd probably be doing it now except for the state of artifacts when I left. This time I didn't bother with a single alt.

I'd love to see their sub numbers as this expansion was good right to a point... but it still doesn't take me back to the fun I had with WotLK.


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Nebu
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Reply #316 on: December 18, 2016, 05:57:16 PM

Sub numbers peaked shortly after Legion hit and then went back to where it started after the first month.  It's an interesting expansion, but gear inflation is out of whack.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Ironwood
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Reply #317 on: December 19, 2016, 03:55:30 AM

It's boring.

It's hugely, hugely boring.  They NEEDED to sort out the Alt Problem and it wasn't addressed at all.

I still think what they really needed to do was somehow amalgamate the previous expansions 'fun bits' and the Alts into something unified.  Like, a Garrison that everyone shares that also has your garden and other grindy fun nonsense in it.

As it is, you're stuck doing the same shite on your alts that you just did.  It's even worse that you pretty much have to do all the zones on your first chap, so it's not like you can have 6 guys doing six different zones for 'something new'.

Also, the raids blow chunks and the Mythic shit is just awfully implemented and stupid.

Anyway.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Azuredream
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Reply #318 on: December 19, 2016, 03:21:30 PM

I'd love to see a radical change like extending the scaling they use in the Legion zones to all zones. Do 100-110 in Duskwood? No problem. Wrath zones more to your liking? Go for it. It would make leveling an alt a lot less boring.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Xanthippe
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Reply #319 on: December 19, 2016, 03:56:07 PM

I'd love to see a radical change like extending the scaling they use in the Legion zones to all zones. Do 100-110 in Duskwood? No problem. Wrath zones more to your liking? Go for it. It would make leveling an alt a lot less boring.

That is a terrific idea.

I think that leveling through dungeons is still much faster than through questing.

I finally got all of my artifact powers on my disc priest. Switched to shadow spec, and leveling that up is super easy, as is leveling up my hunter that I got to 110 a couple of weeks after launch and then left her, other than to keep up with artifact knowledge. I think she's around AK 21 or something. When I do play her, artifact leveling seems very fast.

I also leveled up 3 others who have sat at 110 for the most part, other than to check in for artifact knowledge notes. When I do decide to play them, it's fun. The 5th 110 was pretty boring to level though, because I've seen all the stories/questlines so much, but in that solitaire mindless minecraft-y way, which is how I feel about doing WQs - or how I used to feel about dailies.

I don't think I'm playing WoW right. I prefer the mindless leveling and doing rbgs and fishing to raiding and mythics. It's relaxing, as opposed to frustrating. I'm beginning to like boring in games, I think.
SurfD
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Reply #320 on: December 20, 2016, 01:00:24 AM

It would actually be kind of hilarious if they applied their scaling tech to PvP.  Would love to see some max level jackoff get his face ripped off by a couple of people 30 or 40 levels lower then him because everything now scales to roughly the same percentage modifiers.

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Ironwood
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Reply #321 on: December 20, 2016, 03:10:32 AM

The wailing and gnashing of teeth would, indeed, be delicious.

That said, PvP'ers would probably like that because swelling pvp ranks is a win/win.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Rokal
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Reply #322 on: December 20, 2016, 01:49:27 PM

I'd love to see a radical change like extending the scaling they use in the Legion zones to all zones. Do 100-110 in Duskwood? No problem. Wrath zones more to your liking? Go for it. It would make leveling an alt a lot less boring.

I would also love to see this. I wonder if it would be too confusing for new players though? Having ~50 zones to pick from "next" instead of 1 or 2, and how that is communicated in-game, etc.. The idea of doing like, 10-40 in Pandaria and then wandering off to wherever else I wanted sounds awesome though.

They NEEDED to sort out the Alt Problem and it wasn't addressed at all.

Next patch makes BOA artifact level boosts purchasable for alts, which should help them feel a lot less grindy. They only cost Order Hall resources, which you probably have oodles of on your main if your account looks anything like mine.

I don't think that will fix the alt problem, as it's still pretty boring to re-level them through the same areas, and most professions are trash at this point. Still, it should make it easier for your alts to get to the point where they can run Kara or something, which currently feels like the most fun destination for alts if you have friends to make a group with.
Zetor
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WWW
Reply #323 on: December 20, 2016, 02:31:28 PM

I'd LOVE for WOW to go all-in on the world scaling tech. Old quests, old zones, hell even old dungeons could become relevant again, world pvp could become some semblance of 'fair' nevermind, geared 110s would still be 2-shotting everyone and there's no way Blizz would take that away from them. It'd kill solo running of old raids, but I got really fucking lucky with that, sooo...  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?


Anyway, the artifact knowledge thing will help, but it's not enough... there needs to be a way to skip the entire world quest tedium. Not only are there a ton of items from WQs that are straight up best-in-slot (Devilsaur Shock Baton, titanforges and friends), but doing the same WQs on an alt to get the emissary chest that you need to keep up with resources / AP / legendaries (?) is just mind-numbing. And yea, it doesn't help that professions are total shit, and the obliterum thing is super double shit.

Honestly, WOD was better at having alt catch-up mechanics that didn't force mind-numbing grinding on the player. MOP was kinda bad too with the rep gating, but at least you got a 2x boost once your main got exalted.


... speaking of legendaries, that entire mechanic is just messed up, though not really from an alt perspective. I lucked out and got two legendaries on my shaman that are useful for multiple specs (the ring is good for both damage specs, and the wrist is great for elemental & has very good stats for resto/enh), but what if I got some shitty/niche ones? Or what if I wanted to try healing, only now I wouldn't be getting any legendaries for several months because my 'bad luck protection' is used up already? If you have gear that fundamentally changes how a spec plays, you'd better give a reliable way to get them, and *choose* the one(s) you want. They'll probably put in some mechanics that allow player selection of legendaries in 7.2 / 7.3, but by thaht point most of the playerbase will have quit. Again.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 02:37:15 PM by Zetor »

Azuredream
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Reply #324 on: December 20, 2016, 10:41:59 PM

The legendary system is beyond awful. It's so bad I believe they are already on record saying it was a mistake to have DPS increase legendaries and that they all should've been utility. Honestly I preferred the WotLK/Cataclysm approach to legendaries where you collect foozles from a raid and give them to one guy and he gets the legendary. It's not like I ever got one myself but if you're going to have legendaries in the game I think that's how they should be distributed rather than random bullshit or everybody gets one.

I'm still waiting for them to link AP between all specs. It sucks feeling super powerful as Enhancement or whatever and then switching to Resto and you suck because you have no points in your weapon. And it's not like you suck just a little bit, the difference between 15 points and 35 points is night and day.

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Ironwood
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Reply #325 on: December 21, 2016, 03:51:45 AM

The artefact level boosts are going to do fuck all, frankly.  It's addressing a symptom, not the main problem.


I mean, for fucks sake, I can't even share gold across my alts without effort.  That's just shite.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Paelos
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Reply #326 on: December 21, 2016, 04:24:33 PM

The artefact level boosts are going to do fuck all, frankly.  It's addressing a symptom, not the main problem.


I mean, for fucks sake, I can't even share gold across my alts without effort.  That's just shite.


It goes for everything. They put attunements back in the game for heaven's sake. Fucking attunements. No, just no. I should be able to play every dungeon and raid you release at launch. Do not make me jump through hoops, we learned that was shit with Onyxia back in fucking vanilla.

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Soulflame
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Reply #327 on: December 21, 2016, 05:24:47 PM

And that was heavily underscored during the attunement insanity required for Burning Crusade.


I remember that people were really goddamn annoyed at having to drag crafters through attunement for drops in the final raid dungeon, because (I think) the drops needed for resist gear were non-transferable.
- This was actually Tempest Keep, not Mount Hyjal, and I think it was the point where a lot of the attunement was finally removed.
- I did have the fun of experiencing most of that flow chart.  It was great.   Ohhhhh, I see.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 05:35:56 PM by Soulflame »
Soulflame
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Reply #328 on: December 21, 2016, 05:34:14 PM

I apparently hit quote instead of modify.

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luckton
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Reply #329 on: December 23, 2016, 04:46:12 PM

Merry Christmas!


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Setanta
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Reply #330 on: December 24, 2016, 03:30:45 PM

And that was heavily underscored during the attunement insanity required for Burning Crusade.


I remember that people were really goddamn annoyed at having to drag crafters through attunement for drops in the final raid dungeon, because (I think) the drops needed for resist gear were non-transferable.
- This was actually Tempest Keep, not Mount Hyjal, and I think it was the point where a lot of the attunement was finally removed.
- I did have the fun of experiencing most of that flow chart.  It was great.   Ohhhhh, I see.

Horde attunement for Ony was the earliest example as was vanilla Naxx (although a lot simpler) and don't even get me started on trying to get resist gear for AQ.

Blizzard just don't learn and sooner or later the golden goose will fly

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Soulflame
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Reply #331 on: December 24, 2016, 11:51:45 PM

I had completely forgotten resist gear for AQ, although I went once during BC.  I didn't play vanilla at all.
Azazel
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Reply #332 on: January 15, 2017, 06:33:29 PM

From Blizzcon:

Karazhan will be broken into Upper and Lower sections, queueable random heroics, Mythic+ as well.
Court of Stars and The Arcway will also become queueable.

Flying also confirmed in 7.2.

So those sub dropoffs must be pretty goddamn significant then. Good.

Tell me more about Flying these days. I haven't played since Pandas.

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Rendakor
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Reply #333 on: January 15, 2017, 07:33:46 PM

If they would give us back flying without having to do the stupid Loremaster achievement, I would at least resub for a month.

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Nebu
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Reply #334 on: January 17, 2017, 09:27:37 AM

If they would give us back flying without having to do the stupid Loremaster achievement, I would at least resub for a month.

If you played casually the month after release, you'd have the loremaster already.  It's really nothing more than completing the main storylines in the zones and finishing Suramar.

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Khaldun
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Reply #335 on: January 17, 2017, 07:01:34 PM

So, I got into Nighthold today. I was doing ok--middle of the pack on DPS. Then we wiped on something (I was last up, though). Then five people quit. Then five new people joined. Then we tried again and wiped. I was being extra careful on the mechanic, and was lower on DPS. New jackholes said, "kick the low DPS" (five bosses in, mind you). I got kicked.

So I thought, ok, fine. Maybe I should experiment with assassination finally--I have noticed that the top tier raiding rogues are almost all assassination. Outlaw takes such a perfect control over rotation to hit the high marks. So I tried that. I did ok. But then I noticed: fuck, I have two legendaries and they're both for outlaw. I'm not getting *any* of the bonuses for them besides the stat bonuses. I have no idea if I set my loot spec to Assassination if I'll have a chance of getting legendaries for it, or if two legendaries is all it'll let me have. Handcuffed. I hadn't even really noticed this aspect of it until now.
Azuredream
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Reply #336 on: January 18, 2017, 04:47:09 AM

The legendary system is indeed completely ass. The system right now is that each legendary takes on average twice as long to get as the previous one. If they'd just get rid of that nonsense so that they drop way more frequently people would be way happier. It's not like you can equip more than 2 at once anyway.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Ironwood
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Reply #337 on: January 18, 2017, 05:06:05 AM

That being said, my healing pally shoulders were still better, stat wise, than any other prot gear, so they did for both specs...

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lesion
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Reply #338 on: January 18, 2017, 07:13:50 AM

So I tried that. I did ok. But then I noticed: fuck, I have two legendaries and they're both for outlaw. I'm not getting *any* of the bonuses for them besides the stat bonuses. I have no idea if I set my loot spec to Assassination if I'll have a chance of getting legendaries for it, or if two legendaries is all it'll let me have. Handcuffed. I hadn't even really noticed this aspect of it until now.
They removed the soft cap on legendary drops in late November (relevant bit in the last paragraph): https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752276726?page=9#176

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Polysorbate80
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Reply #339 on: January 18, 2017, 06:53:57 PM

I knew my DPS as feral druid wasn't great, but brawler's guild really showed me how bad.  Fights that took other melee maybe 10 seconds max took me a ridiculous amount of time, if they were doable at all. 

Granted, I'm ilevel 870 with two restoration legendaries and only a feral artifact level of 22, (so probably way undergeared relative to the others) but we're talking first-tier fights here.

Going to learn how to play boomkin, a lot of the later fights I watched looked melee-unfriendly anyways.
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Reply #340 on: January 19, 2017, 08:18:31 AM

I last played in December before Christmas, and haven't thought about it much. I'm sure the raid I was in is dead but it was dying before the holiday anyway because Emerald wasn't fun.

What I do miss is the ability to just knock around for an hour and get things done. That was possibly with world quests, but the grind was pretty steep and eventually it's just an RNG game for the possible loot.

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Paelos
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Reply #341 on: March 13, 2017, 11:39:28 AM

I haven't played in 3 months, but is anybody else?

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Azuredream
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Reply #342 on: March 13, 2017, 11:46:53 AM

I'm still playing but I'm in raidlogging mode (only logging on for raids with my guild, and doing a +15 mythic plus) waiting for patch 7.2. I've leveled a few alts to 110 and have them at 35ish Artifact Weapon level but I just have no interest at all in doing the 35-54 grind on another character and I feel so weak compared to my main character because I don't have those artifact levels, so I don't play them. I've definitely played this one a whole lot more than WoD which only lasted a couple months for me.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Merusk
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Reply #343 on: March 13, 2017, 12:35:43 PM

I haven't played in 3 months, but is anybody else?

Since the first raid went live. I got all my followers, got them leveled and purple then my card got compromised and turned off. I could t be bothered to put in the new billing info.

While I really enjoyed the leveling this time around, the endgame progression treadmill meant I was forced to play one character and that's not me. Plus not having an active guild anymore meant no access to non-idiot groups, and PUGs have gotten worse over time instead of better with the focus on using old raid mechanics in Heroics.

I long for single player once more.

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Xanthippe
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Reply #344 on: March 23, 2017, 06:19:10 PM

I haven't played in 3 months, but is anybody else?

I just started to play again, after a few months away.

7.2 will go live next Tuesday, March 28.

Part II of the Legion Pathfinder achievement (for flying) will be in it, I think.
Paelos
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Reply #345 on: March 28, 2017, 10:29:04 AM

So this is the loot island patch?

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Merusk
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Reply #346 on: March 28, 2017, 10:42:10 AM

If following the traditions of the last few expansions, yes.

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I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
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Ironwood
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Reply #347 on: March 29, 2017, 04:42:04 AM

Talk to me about Pet Dungeon.

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Rokal
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Reply #348 on: March 29, 2017, 01:19:54 PM

It's a time-gated loot island. There is barely anything to do right now, and little loot to be had: no chests, no rares, just a couple world quests in a very densely populated zone. They've said they are going to roll out patch features and quests over the next 11 weeks+, so you probably shouldn't bother checking it out now.

Finishing the WQs allows you to contribute towards a server-wide building on the loot island that gives you a few more activities, but the process is so slow that it's going to take 1-2 weeks just to build a single building, which the Legion will destroy and reset after 2-3 days. It currently feels like the AQ war effort, if you remember that, in that you are doing boring tasks to contribute like 0.0001% towards the progress of the server's goal. Only this time instead of permanently unlocking the raid, the reward is unlocking a non-permanent building.

Another intentional stealth-change joy this patch brought: world mobs now scale with your ilvl, meaning enemies you fought pre-7.2 may now have several million more HP, higher damage, and take longer to kill. If you're trying to do WQs in a healing spec or a tank spec, you'll notice it takes forever to kill anything now. When doing the new artifact weapon trait unlock quest on my raid-geared shaman last night, I was taking 30-50 seconds to kill each single mob.

The solution to this, which they've implied they are going to hotfix out, is just to remove a piece of gear to lower your average ilvl. Removing a ring on my shaman dropped mob HP in Broken isle by over 33%, which is roughly what it was before patch.

Great patch guys  swamp poop
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 01:21:32 PM by Rokal »
Merusk
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Reply #349 on: March 29, 2017, 02:04:50 PM

Hah.. morons and fanbois in charge now.

AQ2.0 with temporary crap? Fuck that, I'll keep my $15 or give it to a freemium game. At least they let me win when I pay.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
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