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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  MMOG Discussion  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: Legion Pre-Expansion Patch Hits - everything changes 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Azuredream
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Reply #280 on: November 03, 2016, 03:46:42 PM

I think things would be improved if they just put the Mythic dungeons into the LFG tool with heroics and normals.

Archaeology this expansion blows. Rather than just having rare projects be a thing you randomly get sometimes it's now a quest you get from Dalaran every 2 weeks. It changed the profession to something you could do when you felt like it to something you HAVE to do in the time limit unless you want to wait however many months it would take for that rare project to rotate back around again. Some of the quests are brutal too, 25 finds in Aszuna was terrible even considering the 2 weeks allotted to complete it.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Xanthippe
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Reply #281 on: November 04, 2016, 08:12:48 AM

Agree on all points, especially on putting base mythics into LFG - and even normal raids. Given that they are no more difficult than normal heroic in WoD was (at least that's how it seems to me), there is no reason to make it difficult for people to get groups - especially since they have gated professions and artifact appearances in mythics and normal raids.

The number of people unhappy with this is huge. If they don't end up doing this, I think they'll lose a lot of subscriptions.

Archaeology - finally did my first quest for Legion. Spent a few hours finishing it, just to power through. I'm not sure I'll keep up with that. I didn't find it fun. I'd rather fish or rbg.

Did snag a legendary yesterday on disc priest (finally), a drop off the first boss of a mythic.

From what I hear, Karazhan may be that place that I only hear about and don't visit for a very long time. I don't care for learning encounters, dying over and over again, with the attendant costs of repairs/consumables/frustrations. I expect it will either be tuned down or people will learn its tricks, but it will be a while before I go there.
luckton
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Reply #282 on: November 04, 2016, 08:19:30 AM

Gonna disagree on regular Mythics being in the queue. I come across waaaaaay too many knuckle-draggers in Mythic as it is. Having to press a couple extra buttons and being able to filter out the bad at least reduces some of the idiocy.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Nebu
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Reply #283 on: November 04, 2016, 09:09:30 AM

I've been running heroics lately and man, are there some terrible players in this game.  I can understand keeping Mythics a bit more selective.


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Xanthippe
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Reply #284 on: November 04, 2016, 09:56:05 AM

I will take a bad player who can maybe be told how to do a boss over trying to get a group for an hour and being denied.
Paelos
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Reply #285 on: November 04, 2016, 10:27:13 AM

I will take a bad player who can maybe be told how to do a boss over trying to get a group for an hour and being denied.

Same, that's what votekick is for.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
luckton
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Reply #286 on: November 04, 2016, 10:30:48 AM

Until you get into that one group that has a duo/trio going, or one of the neutral people are too dumb/don't care to recognize the stupid and /votekick fails.

I'd rather just lead the group myself and run it with an iron fist.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Paelos
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Reply #287 on: November 04, 2016, 10:39:27 AM

Until you get into that one group that has a duo/trio going, or one of the neutral people are too dumb/don't care to recognize the stupid and /votekick fails.

I'd rather just lead the group myself and run it with an iron fist.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Sure and I'd like a legendary, I haven't seen what yet. But you know what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7leQB_Oe_k

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Xanthippe
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Reply #288 on: November 04, 2016, 10:41:05 AM

Well, here is the thing about putting base mythics into LFG - nobody _has_ to use it. If you want to continue to only run Mythics using the Premade tool, you can.

But for those of us who try that, and get denied over and over again because we're dps with a 840 ilvl (I never have had trouble getting in on my healer even though she is disc), it allows us to play.

The requirements for running mythics is becoming more absurd as time goes on. Just saw one group with a tank and a dps looking for a keystone as well as 2 dps and healer - only 870+ level.
luckton
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Reply #289 on: November 04, 2016, 10:57:22 AM

Nobody's stopping you from hosting your own group and you setting the terms and conditions of who gets in or out. Part of the reason I started the updated Bnet tags thread was so that we here could at least branch out and know that we have like-minded/similar-skilled people here to help each other out if need be.

There is an argument to be had that "ilvl isn't everything"; even I have some 820-830 gear still on because the secondary stats do more than what a 850-860 can do. But it does simplify the process of trying to find "good" players that at least have the gear part of the trifecta taken care of.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Paelos
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Reply #290 on: November 04, 2016, 12:34:35 PM

Nobody's stopping you from hosting your own group and you setting the terms and conditions of who gets in or out. Part of the reason I started the updated Bnet tags thread was so that we here could at least branch out and know that we have like-minded/similar-skilled people here to help each other out if need be.

There is an argument to be had that "ilvl isn't everything"; even I have some 820-830 gear still on because the secondary stats do more than what a 850-860 can do. But it does simplify the process of trying to find "good" players that at least have the gear part of the trifecta taken care of.

The grouping tool is shit. The LFG is amazingly helpful. Not using it is simply hubris on the part of Blizzard with their stupid lockout design on Mythics which SHOULD NOT EXIST.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Khaldun
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Reply #291 on: November 04, 2016, 01:21:32 PM

I was in a Normal raid last night that got stuck on the Eye boss and it was pretty irritating. We'd go in, about six dumbchucklefucks would get stuck inside the eye on Phase 2 and die, then they'd bitch into /raid about what a dumb group it was and /quit. Then we'd load up on another six, explain the fight, and it would happen again. I generally wouldn't have a sense that stuff was going south until I would find myself on a tentacle alone in Phase 2 and see that no one was rounding up the blobs and realize that there were splotches of poo all over the place and dead people in them. I went about six or seven rounds of that before I gave up. But the thing that made it worse was that there was always some loud asshole joining in the next iteration and saying the fight was so EZ and how dumb everyone was and then he'd usually be one of the people who fucked up.

That shit is going to happen whether that level of difficulty is LFR'ed or it's done through Premades. The only way to avoid that being your gaming experience is to join some insane group of hardcores who want you to play six hours a night every night.
Paelos
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Reply #292 on: November 04, 2016, 01:31:35 PM

I was in a Normal raid last night that got stuck on the Eye boss and it was pretty irritating. We'd go in, about six dumbchucklefucks would get stuck inside the eye on Phase 2 and die, then they'd bitch into /raid about what a dumb group it was and /quit. Then we'd load up on another six, explain the fight, and it would happen again. I generally wouldn't have a sense that stuff was going south until I would find myself on a tentacle alone in Phase 2 and see that no one was rounding up the blobs and realize that there were splotches of poo all over the place and dead people in them. I went about six or seven rounds of that before I gave up. But the thing that made it worse was that there was always some loud asshole joining in the next iteration and saying the fight was so EZ and how dumb everyone was and then he'd usually be one of the people who fucked up.

That shit is going to happen whether that level of difficulty is LFR'ed or it's done through Premades. The only way to avoid that being your gaming experience is to join some insane group of hardcores who want you to play six hours a night every night.


Except that's only true in LFR. I've had plenty of LFG dungeons run just fine, and if it's on asshole they get booted. Raids are an entirely different machine with no wheels and bad shocks.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
dalien
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Reply #293 on: November 04, 2016, 04:23:19 PM

From Blizzcon:

Karazhan will be broken into Upper and Lower sections, queueable random heroics, Mythic+ as well.
Court of Stars and The Arcway will also become queueable.

Flying also confirmed in 7.2.
Merusk
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Reply #294 on: November 04, 2016, 05:42:56 PM

From Blizzcon:

Karazhan will be broken into Upper and Lower sections, queueable random heroics, Mythic+ as well.
Court of Stars and The Arcway will also become queueable.

Flying also confirmed in 7.2.

So those sub dropoffs must be pretty goddamn significant then. Good.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
dalien
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Reply #295 on: November 04, 2016, 07:43:57 PM

It's amusing to me because they had Heroic versions of Arcway/CoS in beta, but decided to change them to Mythic exclusive because muh neckbeards.  Which may have been OK on its own but gating a big part of their first major patch (Kara) behind Mythics was a really bad idea.  I love that there's Mythic/Mythic+ content available for those that want to do it, just stop making basic fucking story and tradeskill quests require it.

Also we're going to Argus this expansion (7.3?).  It looks like they may live up to their promise of "no more content droughts" this time around.
Paelos
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Reply #296 on: November 06, 2016, 10:54:07 AM

Yeah I already cancelled so hopefully I'm part of them deciding they fucked up yet again. Fixing the game is really simple for me. Take dungeons off lockouts and open them up to more queue options.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Setanta
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Reply #297 on: November 06, 2016, 12:32:28 PM

I made the statement about the shitty state of dungeons when I unsubbed too. Sadly, I've now moved on, discovered Warframe and am grinding with friends or strangers and having fun.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
SurfD
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Reply #298 on: November 07, 2016, 04:13:49 PM

so, whats the fastest way to max out an alt these days?  I am seriously  tempted to ditch work on my main and run several of my alts up to 100 for these new class mounts they are throwing in with the next expansion.  Several of them  just look fucking awesome.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
luckton
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Reply #299 on: November 07, 2016, 06:20:07 PM

- Always run dungeons that are your level at least once to get the quests and complete them. Don't use the random LFG; specifically look for the dungeons that show up in yellow in the specific list. Huge chunks of XP.
- From 1-60, do the regular quest thing until you outlevel the zone. Move on to the next one.
- From 60-70, do Hellfire and weave dungeons in between. You could stay in Hellfire while you run dungeons or move on, but whatever works for you.
- Repeat for 70-80; choose Howling or Borean.
- Repeat for 80-85; choose Hyjal. Always choose Hyjal.
- Repeat for 85-90; Jade Forest with dungeons should do you.
- Repeat for 90-100; It's pretty linear at this point...just keep the quests yellow/orange if available.
- 100-110; Open season on whatever. Do the Bonus Objectives as they pop up while going through the zones, and don't neglect profession quests. Huge chucks with those.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Khaldun
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Reply #300 on: November 08, 2016, 09:09:39 AM

Pandaria might keep me from relevelling anything ever. I found it an utterly hateful experience.
Nebu
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Reply #301 on: November 08, 2016, 09:26:42 AM

I might be re-leveling a character.  Been playing Holy priest and find that the lack of mobility and general lack of utility is pretty disappointing.  Thinking I may try a druid or paladin as a healer for Mythic + and maybe a few 10-man raids.

Any suggestions?

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Merusk
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Reply #302 on: November 08, 2016, 11:05:42 AM

The  answer to healing questions is almost always "roll a Druid"   Has been for about 10 years.

Holy pally if you want to be maintain heals and sit in mele to build power but everything else.  Druid.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Rokal
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Reply #303 on: November 08, 2016, 01:30:52 PM

Holy paladins are really strong in Legion, but they're all viable. Disc is the only Legion healing spec that needs to come with a warning label.
luckton
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Reply #304 on: November 08, 2016, 02:20:52 PM

I've been Mistweaving with my Monk. It's not the spec I'm dumping all my AP into (capped off at lvl 14, right when you hit "dat AP wall"), but I can keep a Mythic group going. Do not miss Fistweaving.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Nebu
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Reply #305 on: December 01, 2016, 01:41:40 PM

Holy paladins are really strong in Legion, but they're all viable. Disc is the only Legion healing spec that needs to come with a warning label.

I've found Disc to be among the better Mythic + classes.  Problem is that they require the group to know what they're doing... so it's impossible to pug with them. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Xanthippe
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Reply #306 on: December 04, 2016, 10:07:45 AM

Not impossible to pug with them. As long as you're overgeared, you're fine.  awesome, for real
Paelos
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Reply #307 on: December 15, 2016, 07:52:47 AM

I've basically given up. They broke the AH, they broke professions, they broke doing dungeons, and the raids I've done are for the most part fuckawful boring. I'm 857 level and see no point in improvements. Blah.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Merusk
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Reply #308 on: December 15, 2016, 08:01:02 AM

Seems like they've been doing great on the initial release but have forgotten how to long-term things. Delayed gratification on some items is good but there has to be a payoff rather than, "incremental improvement here."

I blew my wad on it 2 months in and see no reason going back now until the next X-pac. As you said, the long-term stuff like professions, dungeons, AH are crappy and the Raids? Fuck them, they just weren't that interesting.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Khaldun
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Reply #309 on: December 16, 2016, 12:14:28 PM

I was having fun kind of with mythic + premades except when I wasn't. But even the bloom is off that rose. And doing premades for Kara and Valor is a straight-up drag--both of them are significantly harder than mythic + dungeons and Emerald Nightmare, and nobody who is doing a premade wants to take the time to learn them with folks who haven't run them before. That was true on Day 1 of them going live and so it just gets more true over time. I do not want to have to watch endless vids just to not get yelled at by some manchild who wants his cheese pellet rewards dispensed into his mouth more quickly. My little guild of friends is not going to be in a place where they can run them, though.
Paelos
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Reply #310 on: December 16, 2016, 01:05:05 PM

I was having fun kind of with mythic + premades except when I wasn't. But even the bloom is off that rose. And doing premades for Kara and Valor is a straight-up drag--both of them are significantly harder than mythic + dungeons and Emerald Nightmare, and nobody who is doing a premade wants to take the time to learn them with folks who haven't run them before. That was true on Day 1 of them going live and so it just gets more true over time. I do not want to have to watch endless vids just to not get yelled at by some manchild who wants his cheese pellet rewards dispensed into his mouth more quickly. My little guild of friends is not going to be in a place where they can run them, though.

That's why they are broken. You should be able to pug dungeons. They should be on LFG. Mythic should be cosmetic challenge mode. Yet they have done this instead and it sucks.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Soulflame
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Reply #311 on: December 16, 2016, 01:13:48 PM

So blizzard went back to "listen to forum whiners who want their shiny to be better than everyone else's shiny or else it's meaningless."

Good for them.  Someone should tell them how well WildStar went with that philosophy.
Paelos
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Reply #312 on: December 16, 2016, 03:15:06 PM

So blizzard went back to "listen to forum whiners who want their shiny to be better than everyone else's shiny or else it's meaningless."

Good for them.  Someone should tell them how well WildStar went with that philosophy.

I don't believe that was the intent. I think they ran out of ways to stop people from progressing so fast with all the WQ gear, dungeon gear, and normal raiding. I mean Karazhan is mythic only and has NINE bosses? WTF?

Normal people don't have the time to play a dungeon for 3 hours. That's why you can choose to do that shit if you raid, and they let it infect their 5-mans because they didn't know how to stop people from going too fast.

The problem with the endgame here is they let the raiding mentality affect their 5 mans. Which is fine if you only have 5 mans and no raids. I'd live with that. But to have raids AND these? You're not giving different classes of players something to do.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Khaldun
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Reply #313 on: December 17, 2016, 06:46:29 AM

They need one ultra-hard endgame raid that only the absolute most dedicated poopsockers can even enter, let alone beat. And then a bunch of stuff that is designed to let most people play it.

I've also noticed the rise in designs that block anybody from going back and soloing old raids that had mounts or pets in them--mechanics where you have to kill an improbably large number of adds in a big space all at once, that sort of thing. That's annoying too, because it would give me something else I'd be fine with doing on a weekly basis just for OCD reasons, but where I'm not going to waste the time of trying to round up two or three other people.
Zetor
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Reply #314 on: December 17, 2016, 07:35:55 AM

Hmm, I had the opposite impression of soloing old raids -- if anything, they made it more possible in recent patches (f'rex, Galakras was impossible to solo due to having to fire two harpoons at it... now it can be done with just 1). I ran through most pandaria raids (not SOO) this week on my ele shaman, and they seemed to be decently soloable. Only exception is Dark Animus in Heroic 25-man mode (the little golems just hit way too hard) and possibly the troll council can be rough if you don't have self-heals.  OTOH in Heroic 10 mode everything just straight up melts before mechanics could become a problem.

That said, I'm not a big fan of the entire mythic+ setup. It really needs a static group unless you want to hang with "no noobs, have speedrun experience, screwup = kick" ragebeasts from LFG, and my friends who still play WOW are pretty much uninterested. I do like the idea of Karazhan as a 5-man pseudo-raid you can do 1/week, but it'll probably work better as two smaller dungeons in an upcoming patch. After getting some lucky titanforge drops, legendaries and a crapload of Kara gear, my character is approaching the point where the only things worth doing would be pugging a nightbane run each week (haha no), or pugging mythic+7 & heroic-mode raids (haha HELL no). Of course there's the possibilty to get a lucky titanforge from a WQ or a lower-level dungeon, but that's just combining a mind-numbing grind with prayers to RNGesus.

e: also, the weekly gates on Suramar storylines is a pretty cynical "keep everyone subbed" mechanic.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 10:53:32 AM by Zetor »

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