Dumb Diets: KETO

[schild]

So, I'm doing keto right now. It's one of those "everything you know about food is wrong" diets. Unlike Paleo, this eliminates a shitload of protein and veggies, making it uhhhh more palatable. On the flipside, 70+% of my diet is FAT. And we're not talking like all "healthy" fats (as decided by the surgeon general or FDA or whoeverthefuck), we're talking butter, bacon, oil, lard, FAT. The good stuff.

Pretty easy thus far though 10 days in I'm weak as fuck and my knees feel like jelly due to sugar and carb withdrawal. I attribute its easiness to how delicious everything is. For lunch one day I literally ate an entire container of Lox covered in cream cheese. Weird.

Anyway, anyone else done this diet? Or know anyone that has?

[Nebu]

I can tell you all about it if you wish.  My only suggestion is to stop after 4-6 weeks.

[TheWalrus]

If he's eating lard with whipped cream on top, won't he stop after 4-6 weeks anyway? 

[Samwise]

If he's eating lard with whipped cream on top, won't he stop after 4-6 weeks anyway? 

This.

[Trippy]

Are you testing yourself? Try not to kill yourself by getting into a state of ketoacidosis.

If your breath can peel paint you may want to back off your diet

[schild]

I can tell you all about it if you wish.  My only suggestion is to stop after 4-6 weeks.

I would like to know the reasoning behind that suggestion.

[schild]

If he's eating lard with whipped cream on top, won't he stop after 4-6 weeks anyway? 

Is that an option?

[Nebu]

I would like to know the reasoning behind that suggestion.

The point behind a ketogenic diet is to force your body to use calories less efficiently; fat gets burned for energy as ketone bodies and protein gets used to maintain constant blood glucose levels.  After a while, your body will adjust its metabolism to adapt to this new diet and you'll see it becoming less effective over time.  At this point, you'll see a decrease in effectiveness while the deliterious effects remain the same.  

Your body's preferred fuel is glucose.  That's what your brain and red blood cells want.  Denying your system the fuel that it requires to run most efficiently isn't a good long-term solution.

Does that help?

I can suggest a much better diet, but it's not easy.  I also suggest that you get an idea of your baseline Basal metabolic rate.

[schild]

Log on to Steam at some point, I'd love to chat about it.

[Nebu]

Log on to Steam at some point, I'd love to chat about it.

Will do.

I will say that a ketogenic diet can be helpful for people with onset of type 2 diabetes.

See HERE

[Trippy]

Losing weight in any fashion can improve those things they were measuring.

[apocrypha]

If you are morbidly obese (BMI > 40, or >35 with significant weight-related medical problems) then some diets can be helpful short term in order to very quickly lose a lot of weight. We used to use a modified VLCD (very low calorie diet) with some of our patients for a short period for this reason. It's basically 1-2 slimfasts per day and nothing else, for a few weeks. This was with careful monitoring in a clinical environment though, primarily to avoid electrolyte imbalances from developing.

A ketogenic diet may be similarly useful, but as with a VLCD it may also be at risk of causing sudden and unpredictable changes in things like your blood electrolyte levels. You shouldn't undertake such a drastic regime without medical supervision, and I mean *daily* supervision. This shit is not safe. If you're not morbidly obese then don't do this kind of thing. Seriously.

The other thing to remember is that drastic diets aimed at significant weight reduction are only useful in the short term. Without permanent lifestyle and diet changes the weight will go right back on again, often in less than 6 months. Your diet needs to change forever if your current diet has left you morbidly obese. There's no magic formula either, the only way we ever found patients succeeding long term in keeping the weight off and going into type 2 diabetes remission was if they stopped eating processed food completely, cut out alcohol almost completely, stopped smoking and started preparing and cooking all of their own food.

Diet fads have constantly changed. In the 50s it was the grapefruit diet, in the 60s it was vegetarianism, 70s calorie counting, 80s low fat, 90s low carb, 00s paleo nonsense, etc. The only constant thing with diet books and guides is preparing and cooking your own food, from good quality ingredients. Processed, pre-prepared food will make you fat and kill you. Learn to cook, get some decent cook books, it's really not complicated and it will change your life. I can recommend some very good cook books that are simple, fast, cheap and healthy.

And of course, and this is where I personally fall down, burn more calories than you eat. Don't get a fitband and count calories, just do some exercise. If you lose weight then you're doing it right, if you gain weight (unless it's pure muscle) then you're eating too much and exercising too little. Again, exercise doesn't have to be expensive or complicated. Just walking is enough at first. Then more walking, then faster walking, then faster walking up hills carrying a load of fresh produce you're going to cook later.

[Nebu]

If you are morbidly obese (BMI > 40, or >35 with significant weight-related medical problems) then some diets can be helpful short term in order to very quickly lose a lot of weight. We used to use a modified VLCD (very low calorie diet) with some of our patients for a short period for this reason. It's basically 1-2 slimfasts per day and nothing else, for a few weeks. This was with careful monitoring in a clinical environment though, primarily to avoid electrolyte imbalances from developing.

A ketogenic diet may be similarly useful, but as with a VLCD it may also be at risk of causing sudden and unpredictable changes in things like your blood electrolyte levels. You shouldn't undertake such a drastic regime without medical supervision, and I mean *daily* supervision. This shit is not safe. If you're not morbidly obese then don't do this kind of thing. Seriously.

The other thing to remember is that drastic diets aimed at significant weight reduction are only useful in the short term. Without permanent lifestyle and diet changes the weight will go right back on again, often in less than 6 months. Your diet needs to change forever if your current diet has left you morbidly obese. There's no magic formula either, the only way we ever found patients succeeding long term in keeping the weight off and going into type 2 diabetes remission was if they stopped eating processed food completely, cut out alcohol almost completely, stopped smoking and started preparing and cooking all of their own food.

Diet fads have constantly changed. In the 50s it was the grapefruit diet, in the 60s it was vegetarianism, 70s calorie counting, 80s low fat, 90s low carb, 00s paleo nonsense, etc. The only constant thing with diet books and guides is preparing and cooking your own food, from good quality ingredients. Processed, pre-prepared food will make you fat and kill you. Learn to cook, get some decent cook books, it's really not complicated and it will change your life. I can recommend some very good cook books that are simple, fast, cheap and healthy.

And of course, and this is where I personally fall down, burn more calories than you eat. Don't get a fitband and count calories, just do some exercise. If you lose weight then you're doing it right, if you gain weight (unless it's pure muscle) then you're eating too much and exercising too little. Again, exercise doesn't have to be expensive or complicated. Just walking is enough at first. Then more walking, then faster walking, then faster walking up hills carrying a load of fresh produce you're going to cook later.

All good stuff.  Pretty much covers everything Schild and I discussed in our Steam chat.

[Nebu]

Losing weight in any fashion can improve those things they were measuring.

True.  The point in linking the article was this statement:

Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated.

[Bunk]

Doctor gave me the year to lose a bit of weight and up my exercise to avoid having to go on anti cholesterol meds. Since the start of the year I weaned myself off of pop completely, and then eliminated high calorie snacks. I also upped my frequency of walking significantly. I also consciously make a point of stopping when I'm full and not feeling bad if I toss a third of a plate because I made too much.  I still drink beer (its one of my true pleasures), and I make a point of treating myself to something bad at least once a week. Really the hardest part is not sitting there munching on a bag of chips when I'm bored.

I've gone from 170 to 159 in five months. Not huge, but its getting there. The best part is that the changes feel like something I can keep up long term. Targeting 150 by the end of the year. (I'm a skinny framed guy that weighed 135 out of high school)

[Trippy]

Losing weight in any fashion can improve those things they were measuring.

True.  The point in linking the article was this statement:

Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated.

But that's in a supervised clinical setting where the meals were prepared for the subjects and they were tested regularly. That's why I asked if schild was testing himself. A DIY ketogenic diet is risky given the dangers of ketoacidosis.

[Paelos]

I've started eating mostly meats, veg, and cut out 90% of the wheat/rice/potato carbs I used to eat. I've switched to honey instead of added sugars in things, and my family is eating dinners we prepare every evening, and lunches prepared by us 3-4 times a week. It's certainly helped me stop gaining weight, but the next step I have to add in is regular exercise, and I'm doing 30-45 minutes of brisk walking a day now. I find it much easier to do than the hardcore stuff, and I've noticed results which is nice.

[Nebu]

But that's in a supervised clinical setting where the meals were prepared for the subjects and they were tested regularly. That's why I asked if schild was testing himself. A DIY ketogenic diet is risky given the dangers of ketoacidosis.

Dangerous is a relative term.  It's pretty tough to enter full blown ketoacidosis without some pre-existing medical condition.  Most people will get enough carbs to maintain healthy blood glucose levels on these diets.  The big issue is to make sure you're drinking enough water during any high protein diet.  Elimination of urea and generation of kidney stones would concern me far more than ketoacidosis during a 12 week program change.

[Trippy]

There's also the flip side where he never actually reaches ketosis so he's consuming all that fat and not actually getting the benefits of being in ketosis.

[Nebu]

There's also the flip side where he never actually reaches ketosis so he's consuming all that fat and not actually getting the benefits of being in ketosis.

That's always possible in these diets.  I'm a firm believer in eating clean and maintaining a small caloric deficit.  Not everyone has the discipline for that.

[Hawkbit]

Don't get a fitband and count calories, just do some exercise.

I've had some health problems crop up now that I'm 40, mostly due to lack of regular exercise. I'm using a fitbit to count steps successfully so far and it's keeping me honest about how much activity I'm really doing. Setting a 12,000 step goal is ~6mi per day, so at least a few miles of that has to come from a 30-45minute burst.

Of course, a month into that I've developed plantar faciatis, so hitting that 12k steps goal takes more effort through time stretching and pain. It's getting better daily though and I might buy a bike soon to help switch up the routine.

I wish there was a really easy way to calorie count for the extremely lazy. I would totally pay attention to it if the process was automated.

[Ard]

For me, the calorie counting thing was all front loaded.  I used a website that tracked it (there's a billion now, I have no idea who to recommend), and over time I just started knowing how much I was shoveling into my face at any given time just from entering it in regularly for a few weeks. 

[apocrypha]

Yeah I suppose my point was that you don't need to get complicated. If using a fitness monitor or calorie counting works for you then that's great - and that's the most important thing, you have to find something that works for *you*. We're all different, one size does not fit all, same goes for what you eat, find what works for you.

[Signe]

Tell me what a normal day on this diet would be like.  I'm confused by it.

[Rasix]

Eat a jar of mayo.

[schild]

I don't want to do that.

[Paelos]

Where's the picture of the cat throwing up?

[Draegan]

I'm travelling a lot now and stopped exercising.

Got back into it a few days ago, snagged the J&J 7 minute workout app. I do 3 circuits a day. Like someone says just exercise.

[Rasix]

Where's the picture of the cat throwing up?

[Paelos]

I love that thing

[Yegolev]

Hey, so, seems like a lifestyle change is in order.  I have to trick myself since I can't even be trusted to spend money on health books, nevermind implement a diet or exercise regimen.  This is exactly why I have a standing desk.  It's also why I conveniently "forget" to buy donuts at the grocery store, since I have a nice fat lazy streak and I won't leave the house just to get a can of Pringles.

I've also avoided buying preprocessed food except for "emergency" kits of frozen lasagna which are really for my wife to feed herself when I am not at home.  I wasn't at home last week because I was at Boy Scout camp.  I'm pretty sure she lived on Wendy's and frozen White Castles.  Now that I'm back, I cook all this fresh fucking food that I have delivered to my house.

I'm not really sure how I manage to take the stairs everyday other than that I've forced myself into the habit of walking that way on my way into the building.

Something really interesting about sleeping outdoors in the Georgia mountains, and napping occasionally through the day, is that I'm very refreshed.  I also ate smoked salmon, brats, some chili made from brisket, and even greek salad.  Yeah, pizza once but it was from a local joint on Lake Nottley.

[angry.bob]

Doctor gave me the year to lose a bit of weight and up my exercise to avoid having to go on anti cholesterol meds. Since the start of the year I weaned myself off of pop completely, and then eliminated high calorie snacks. I also upped my frequency of walking significantly. I also consciously make a point of stopping when I'm full and not feeling bad if I toss a third of a plate because I made too much.  I still drink beer (its one of my true pleasures), and I make a point of treating myself to something bad at least once a week. Really the hardest part is not sitting there munching on a bag of chips when I'm bored.

I've gone from 170 to 159 in five months. Not huge, but its getting there. The best part is that the changes feel like something I can keep up long term. Targeting 150 by the end of the year. (I'm a skinny framed guy that weighed 135 out of high school)

Try adding a fatty fish at least once or twice a week. Salmon is super best, catfish is okay, any of the others I'm not sure about. The type of oil in them reduces LDL and raises HDL. Did they explain blood lipids and what's what with your numbers?

[Yegolev]

Fish is full of mercury.  Probably need to stick with vegetables.

[TheWalrus]

Eat off a smaller plate. Like, literally, a smaller plate. Don't go back for seconds. Move around a little. Done.

[Yegolev]

There is that rule about not eating more than what you can hold in your two cupped hands.  I find that you have to really mash the donuts into a compact ball to succeed there.