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angry.bob
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Reply #35 on: June 14, 2016, 12:56:52 PM

Fish is full of mercury.  Probably need to stick with vegetables.


Eat farm-raised not wild. Also, I've been eating shit with mercury in it my whole life and I'm perfectly fine.;slfja;oisfu[ jf[iwej

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Yegolev
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Reply #36 on: June 14, 2016, 12:58:21 PM

You mean toilet fish?

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schild
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Reply #37 on: June 14, 2016, 01:05:46 PM

There is that rule about not eating more than what you can hold in your two cupped hands.  I find that you have to really mash the donuts into a compact ball to succeed there.
Use Krispy Kreme. That's like 4 dozen.
Bunk
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Reply #38 on: June 14, 2016, 01:10:10 PM

Salmon and Tuna are regular staples of my diet. I'll probably die of Mercury poisoning eventually because of all the sushi I eat.

I much prefer wild salmon to farmed when I can get it, but most sushi places use farmed since its cheaper.

I don't remember the lipid numbers off hand, but he gave me plenty of materials to read on it. Big thing I'm focusing on currently is eliminating Trans Fats.

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Samwise
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Reply #39 on: June 14, 2016, 10:55:40 PM

Salmon is super low mercury IIRC, as well as one of the better ones for omega 3 or whatever.  It's the superfish.

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Reply #40 on: June 14, 2016, 10:59:25 PM

I'm down ten pounds in 14 days. Neat.
Trippy
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Reply #41 on: June 14, 2016, 11:14:36 PM

Except that's virtually all water.
schild
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Reply #42 on: June 15, 2016, 12:19:04 AM

You're all water, Debbie downer.
Yegolev
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Reply #43 on: June 15, 2016, 07:56:16 AM

Laxatives, right?

Or are you still full of shit?

awesome, for real

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Mandella
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Reply #44 on: June 15, 2016, 09:52:09 AM

Salmon is super low mercury IIRC, as well as one of the better ones for omega 3 or whatever.  It's the superfish.

As I remember it without bothering to double check, there isn't much mercury contamination except in old, large saltwater fish. Basically tuna steaks. Most small chunk tuna in cans has relatively little -- you're okay unless you're eating it everyday.

If your catfish has mercury in it somebody is doing something very wrong.

Also, wasn't all of that fish oil stuff debunked? Turned out to have been based on really sketchy research that hasn't been born out by long term studies? In other words, just another food fad/miracle cure.
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Reply #45 on: June 15, 2016, 09:55:39 AM

Maybe, but it passed under my radar if so.  I get my omega-3 from flax seed in any case.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Trippy
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Reply #46 on: June 15, 2016, 10:13:53 AM

You're all water, Debbie downer.
It's just biologies and maths, though I probably should've said "mostly all water".

For example, let's assume you really did lose 10 pounds of non-water weight in 14 days. That means you would've been averaging a calorie deficit of 2500 calories a day. Let's also assume you need 2500 calories a day to maintain your current body weight[1] and didn't increase your average daily physical activity. That would mean you haven't eaten in 14 days to lose those 10 pounds[2]. Grats!

As a more realistic example let's assume you need 3000 calories a day to maintain your current body weight (since you are a big boy), still haven't increased your average daily physical activity, but are eating 1/3 fewer calories on your new diet (or the equivalent of skipping one meal a day). That would mean you've lost 4 pounds of real weight and 6 pounds of water. Double grats!

So if I'm correct and you've lost mostly water, why did that happen? The two primary causes are glycogen depletion and dehydration[3], both of which are common when you are on a ketogenic diet. A low-carb diet will deplete your glycogen stores by design and glycogen binds 3-4 grams of water per gram of glycogen so that water will get flushed from your system as your glycogen levels drop. Eventually your body will switch to gluconegenesis, using protein and fats to produce the glucose it needs[4].

However as your body excretes this glycogen-bound water you may lose electrolytes like sodium, potassium, and magnesium too rapidly reducing your bodies ability to retain the water it needs causing you to become dehydrated. Increasing your electrolyte and water consumption can counteract this affect but of course you'll gain some of your weight back.


[1] That's slightly higher than the average sedentary male of your age which is 2,400 calories but it makes the numbers even >_>

[2] Or you are a eating a crap-ton of celery

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-carbohydrate_diet (search for "dehydration")

[4] Assuming you are eating enough protein to go along with all that fat
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Reply #47 on: June 15, 2016, 10:15:34 AM

Trippy, I know it's mostly water. I was just making a post. You spent too much work on this.
Goreschach
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Reply #48 on: June 15, 2016, 10:19:19 AM

His point isn't strictly that it was mostly water that went away. Yes, people are mostly water so that's always technically true. It's that most of the weight you lost is due to glycogen depletion and once you start eating carbs again most of it will come back.
Trippy
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Reply #49 on: June 15, 2016, 10:23:05 AM

Trippy, I know it's mostly water. I was just making a post. You spent too much work on this.
Oops.
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Reply #50 on: June 15, 2016, 10:37:45 AM


Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Selby
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Reply #51 on: June 15, 2016, 11:14:12 AM

If your catfish has mercury in it somebody is doing something very wrong.
The rivers in my area are heavily contaminated with mercury and they specifically say no swimming or fishing as a result. Makes for a good research project to clean the area up though...
Rasix
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Reply #52 on: June 15, 2016, 02:29:19 PM

What was wrong with your old diet?  The one that got rid of all the weight back in Phoenix.

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schild
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Reply #53 on: June 15, 2016, 02:35:11 PM

What was wrong with your old diet?  The one that got rid of all the weight back in Phoenix.
It was a starvation diet, beyond unhealthy, and frankly I fucking hate myself too much when I do it.
Trippy
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Reply #54 on: June 15, 2016, 02:36:22 PM

So don't cut as many calories per day and lose the weight more slowly.
Nebu
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Reply #55 on: June 15, 2016, 02:40:04 PM

DISCLAIMER: I'm just saying this to hear myself talk...

Diets don't work in the long term.  PERIOD.

If you want to lose weight and keep it off, you need to make lifestyle changes.  You need to mentally alter your approach to food.  You need to physically alter your approach to life.  If you don't change these two factors, you are almost certainly destined to regain any weight lost. 

/sermon

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Teleku
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Reply #56 on: June 15, 2016, 02:46:22 PM

Can I go on an ultra diet for a few months to drop myself to sane levels, then go off and binge for months straight putting it all back on, then drop it again with another crazy diet?  In an endless cycle?  A balance of health terror that keeps the medium health level of my body somewhat within reason?

Because that's what I do!   why so serious?

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Speedy Cerviche
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Reply #57 on: June 15, 2016, 02:56:21 PM

A lot of evidence is piling up to dieting being beyond counter-productive long term. Being hungry tunes your metabolism to slow down, crash dieting traumatizes it to a halt.

A very interesting recently published a study on some of these biggest loser contestants who lost between 50-200 lbs in a short period. 5-7 years later they have gain it back and their metabolism was shocked so hard it is STILL slowing down years later and it's impossible for them to keep weight down even with exercise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html?_r=0

To really lose weight it seems you have to haul your ass to the gym and get your metabolism up. That plus more muscle means more calorie burn even while resting. As an upside if you like food, you get to even eat more too.
lamaros
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Reply #58 on: June 15, 2016, 04:42:23 PM

I'm with Nebu on this one. I don't really have any professional experience to back it up, but anecdotally it's obvious that those I know who are more physically healthy have much better relationships with food than those who don't.

Can I go on an ultra diet for a few months to drop myself to sane levels, then go off and binge for months straight putting it all back on, then drop it again with another crazy diet?  In an endless cycle?  A balance of health terror that keeps the medium health level of my body somewhat within reason?

Because that's what I do!   why so serious?

I don't deny myself anything in regard to food but I manage to stay what I would consider a normal weight (around 160 pounds, and I'm 5'11) without much fluctuation. I would guess that what you're suggesting is not going to help you achieve any lasting balance, and will make it harder for you to have both a healthy body and a healthy mentality in the short, medium and long term.
Gimfain
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Reply #59 on: June 16, 2016, 12:32:15 AM

Its only three times in my life that I actually tried to do something about my weight, even though I lost weight during other times it wasn't because I was actively doing something about it, it just happened. 13 years ago I lost 15kg but never changed the way I ate so got it all back + 10kg due to my mmo gaming habits. 6 years ago my weight peaked and I started to mind the way I was eating and kept up my exercising, got a lot healthier but didn't lose that much weight, still not bad for a 130kg fattie to have a rest pulse at 50 and regular blood pressure. 1.5 years ago I had enough of the way I was looking and started getting serious, dropped 15kg in 3.5 months, dropped another 5 kg during the summer and since then I have bounced between 107-112 kg.

This summer I told myself to get below 100 kg, doing a 1kg cut every week. I basically got my menu ready for every day, I keep on exercising 3 times a week and I find all the reasons I can get to use my bike. What determines my success is winter, during a good winter I only gain 5 kg, during a bad winter its 15 kg. If its just 5kg I can lose it easily next summer though.

I have no experience in crash diets though, its just second hand information from my cousin that I do regular walks with. He lost 25kg on a brutal vlcd diet, ended up gaining twice the amount back until he did a gastric bypass 1.5 years ago. That really was my warning shot and its not something I wish to do, given my eating habits I'm not even sure I can have that surgery.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 12:42:44 AM by Gimfain »

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Reply #60 on: June 16, 2016, 08:42:05 AM

In an endless cycle?

Not endless. why so serious?

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Hammond
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Reply #61 on: June 16, 2016, 08:57:11 AM

Not really a fan of crash diets. Personal story, I lost about 60 pounds through a change in lifestyle and simply eating less than I was burning. For the first 2 years I was just doing walking and some yoga. I gradually worked up to the point I am at now which is working out 5 - 6 days a week. I could lose another 10 - 15 pounds however the last bit seems to be the worst to lose. I am 5'11 and I weigh 200 pounds today. At my skinniest point playing 3 sports in high school I was at 185 with around 10% body fat so I feel pretty good.

It took me a few years to get to this point but my weight is stable and I don't really have a problem eating what I want in moderation. In this time I have seen friend after friend try crash diet after crash diet and lose some significant weight but turn around and actually gain it all back and even weigh more than they did before. They ask me what I kind of diet I am on.. I tell them that its not a diet its a lifestyle change. I try to be supportive and be a good friend but after you see them going through the cycle a few times its hard supporting them. I also found it easier keeping the weight off by removing myself from some friends that have bad habits (drinking to much, eating fast food, never exercising). Its sucks seeing friends grow old and develop issues due to the life they are living.

Best of luck schild I hope this is the spark that kicks you into making some changes. Historically I have seen very few people go from one of these diets into some real changes.
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Reply #62 on: June 16, 2016, 09:41:38 AM

Ate soup & salad today.  Optimistic that it might persist.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Reply #63 on: June 16, 2016, 09:45:28 AM

I have done crash diets before, I have never gained so much of it back that I weighed more than I did prior. I tend to be pretty good at keeping it off, but there were mitigating circumstances in this last cycle that resulted in, well, absolute sloth.

Also, keto really isn't a "crash" diet. I'm still consuming 2000 calories. My deficit is barely 20%, might be slightly less. I feel like there's a culture of extremes in dieting that's shading a lot of these responses. Diets, as with anything, are about self-management.
DevilsAdvocate25
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Reply #64 on: June 16, 2016, 03:59:13 PM

My boss did the keto diet. He had great results like you did, Schild, at the beginning, but then stopped losing weight and finally altered his diet back to including carbs again. He has stabilized, but is leery about gaining the weight back so is watching his calories more closely now that he has lost the weight.

The last 3 years we had weight loss challenges at work. I won two and then he won the last one. I won by restricting daily salt and sugar intake. That's all. I used MyFitnessPal to track what I ate and stayed under their recommendations for sugar and salt. There are some places you can't eat at all, like Olive Garden, when watching salt intake. This actually turned into a lifestyle change and now I watch my salt and sugar whenever I buy any food. I have managed to keep the weight off with minimal exercise. The next step is to exercise more which should also help me stay where I am.
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Reply #65 on: June 16, 2016, 04:01:43 PM

Keto falls off if you don't start lowering your daily calorie intake. Really, every diet does. Did he cut his after a month or two the first time in?
angry.bob
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Reply #66 on: June 16, 2016, 05:51:15 PM

Maybe, but it passed under my radar if so.  I get my omega-3 from flax seed in any case.

There was a British study about 10 years ago that said there was no measureable benefit, but there's a lot more studies saying there is. As for me, I figure I have to eat something to stay alive and fish in general is a way healthier choice even if there really are no benefits from the oil.

The issue with getting omega-3 fatty acids from plant sources is that the benefits are believed to come from two omega-3 fats in fish, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Flaxseed oil has a different, plant-based omega-3, alpha-linolenic acid (ALA). Your body can convert the ALA, but the conversion is very inefficient. You have to ingest an average of 6-7 flaxseed oil capsules in order to get the same amount of DHA and EPA as 1 fish oil capsule. And of course the fish oil capsules aren't as efficient as just eating a piece of salmon.

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Gimfain
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Reply #67 on: June 17, 2016, 01:26:46 AM

2500 kcal burn for an average male isn't exactly false, its just that its for an "average" male that is 5'10 at BMI 22.5.

2000 kcal is a solid intake if you want to lose weight, you won't feel awfully fatigue and if you do bit more walking during the day you are most likely dropping 1kg of fat every week. I totally misunderstood what diet you did, its just people that do a vlcd diet always talk about keto.

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apocrypha
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Reply #68 on: June 17, 2016, 03:29:40 AM

My boss did the keto diet. He had great results like you did, Schild, at the beginning, but then stopped losing weight and finally altered his diet back to including carbs again. He has stabilized, but is leery about gaining the weight back so is watching his calories more closely now that he has lost the weight.

The last 3 years we had weight loss challenges at work. I won two and then he won the last one. I won by restricting daily salt and sugar intake. That's all. I used MyFitnessPal to track what I ate and stayed under their recommendations for sugar and salt. There are some places you can't eat at all, like Olive Garden, when watching salt intake. This actually turned into a lifestyle change and now I watch my salt and sugar whenever I buy any food. I have managed to keep the weight off with minimal exercise. The next step is to exercise more which should also help me stay where I am.

Quick note of interest regarding salt intake. The evidence that anything other than *extremely* high daily intakes of salt does any harm is not strong evidence, and is - as far as I remember - pretty evenly split either way. The initial study that raised salt as a potentially harmful dietary component was the Framingham study, a very good, long term study of ~5000 people, begun in 1948, which used a shotgun approach to look at a huge range of lifestyle and dietary factors and correlating them with long term cardiac health. This kind of open-ended study design can be very useful in identifying factors to target for further study but it's also very open to false positives due to statistical variation. The research on salt that's followed since then has been very mixed in conclusions. If you look at meta-analyses (e.g. the Cochrane database) then there isn't a strong statistical case for salt reduction beyond avoiding extremes (and I do mean extremes - not the kind of levels you would get without specifically trying to).

I know this seems very odd since the evils of salt have been promoted so long and so hard by so many people that it's hard to comprehend that there's little to no evidence to back it up, but the research really isn't there. If you ate nothing but fast food, restaurant food and processed food every meal, every day, your salt intake might end up being a little high. Other than that it's something that does not deserve the focus that it gets most of the time.

Sugar on the other hand... yeah, that shit is fucking lethal.

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Reply #69 on: June 17, 2016, 04:49:51 AM

I think the key to any diet (and I think it is why a lot of people who do these weird Atkins/Keto/South Beach/etc. diets see results) is being conscious of what you are eating. The more strict requirements on what you can or can't eat means you are paying more attention to it. Which leads to a bit of a lifestyle change as you become accustomed to paying attention to your food.

I lost a bunch of weight by simply tracking everything I ate with a phone app and keeping my calorie intake lower (granted, I was running at a pretty high deficit for quite a while). As part of that, my lifestyle changed in that I cut way back on eating a lot of things I had been and I became a lot more conscious of portion size.

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