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Author Topic: Civilization VI  (Read 8738 times)
Brolan
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Reply #140 on: March 19, 2017, 06:23:11 PM

Civ 6 is on sale this weekend with Steam, but all I see are an endless series of negative reviews slamming the AI and the "warmonger" status.  Any of you have buyer's remorse?
Azuredream
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Reply #141 on: March 19, 2017, 07:05:38 PM

I still play it occasionally. It'd be nice if diplomacy worked but it's still fun without it. I've heard there are mods to improve the AI but I haven't used them since it doesn't seem all that different from other Civs to me. Civ AI has always been dumb as a bag of rocks and needing copious amounts of headstart to compete with the player.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
lamaros
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Reply #142 on: March 19, 2017, 11:28:55 PM

Good game, unlike Beyond Earth.

I'm Cived out for a while tho.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Bunk
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Reply #143 on: March 20, 2017, 07:07:53 AM

I want to like this. I have yet to complete a game though. One of my biggest complaints is that its too difficult to really get a feel for how a city is doing statistically. Plus too many things that you basically have to memorize in the civipedia if you don't want to screw yourself. Hmm, where should I build this district? - pause while I look at the adjacency requirements for 17 different wonders.

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Merusk
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Reply #144 on: March 20, 2017, 07:37:10 AM

The game is not focused on "tall" cities much at all, so you're worried about adjacency too much if you're researching it like that. There's a limit to the number of districts a city can have based on population anyway.  Build wider and don't worry about maximizing tiles of your cities. The max radius of the city combined with hex maps means you have too many possible productive tiles to ever work them all efficiently anyway.

Just what I've found playing through. I'm no civ expert these days. I never go above Prince because it requires me to be too aggressive with the military. 

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Endie
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Reply #145 on: March 23, 2017, 07:44:04 AM

Civ 6 is on sale this weekend with Steam, but all I see are an endless series of negative reviews slamming the AI and the "warmonger" status.  Any of you have buyer's remorse?

It's a poor game.  Gorgeous to look at, and with more buckets to fill than any version of civ yet, but it might actually be my least-favourite iteration in terms of gameplay.  Over-complex and overly inter-dependent systems (this from someone who even enjoyed Hearts of Iron 3) and surprisingly dull (and this from someone who plays Eve).

It's not even hard, as such.  Just meh.

My blog: http://endie.net

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Shannow
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Reply #146 on: March 23, 2017, 08:03:52 AM

Civ 6 is on sale this weekend with Steam, but all I see are an endless series of negative reviews slamming the AI and the "warmonger" status.  Any of you have buyer's remorse?
(this from someone who even enjoyed Hearts of Iron 3) and surprisingly dull

Note to self: Never be alone around Endie and anything sharp.  why so serious?

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Khaldun
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Reply #147 on: March 23, 2017, 07:01:33 PM

I want to like it more than I can. Fundamentally the brokenness of the diplomatic AI combined with its pervasiveness is what makes me unable to do it. If it were just a flavor sub-system, well, ok, but it's not--it's interwoven into most of the gameplay.
Maledict
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Reply #148 on: March 24, 2017, 03:08:39 AM

Civ 6 is on sale this weekend with Steam, but all I see are an endless series of negative reviews slamming the AI and the "warmonger" status.  Any of you have buyer's remorse?

Absolutely got buyers remorse here - I even bought the season pass, which is the first and last time I've ever done that.

The game's AI simply does not work. It is in a worse state than any other version of civ, and 5 months later still hasn't been improved. The AI does not understand the basic gameplay rules - it doesn't build districts properly, it doesn't build armies, it doesn't understand how to move its troops. At the same time, it's insanely aggressive on the diplomacy front for no reason - nations who have no reason to dislike you will declare war like clockwork (it's on a timer, and as soon as that timer is up they declare). Although they often don't have an army anyways.

It looks pretty, and has some interesting ideas inside it, but right now it's just broken. My least played version of civ to date.
Shannow
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Reply #149 on: March 24, 2017, 06:17:15 AM

I'll wait for the 2nd expansion pack.

Someone liked something? Who the fuzzy fuck was this heretic? You don't come to this website and enjoy something. Fuck that. ~ The Walrus
Draegan
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Reply #150 on: March 24, 2017, 06:41:06 AM

I didn't buy it, but I watch quill18 on YouTube play games. That satisfies my itch.

AI is definitely terribad.
jgsugden
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Reply #151 on: May 02, 2017, 03:29:26 PM

You folks just saved me the cost of the game.  I'll wait for an expansion that fixes the game.

Man, I used to love playing Civ...  For those with a Civ itch that don't want to suffer through this game's faults: What game would you recommend to scratch that itch?

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Soulflame
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Reply #152 on: May 02, 2017, 04:26:51 PM

I hear there's this mod for Civ IV...

 why so serious?

But seriously, I would also like to know.
lamaros
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Reply #153 on: May 02, 2017, 05:16:59 PM

You folks just saved me the cost of the game.  I'll wait for an expansion that fixes the game.

Man, I used to love playing Civ...  For those with a Civ itch that don't want to suffer through this game's faults: What game would you recommend to scratch that itch?

There's nothing wrong with the game. It's the best Civ game out there, you will not find something else that scratches the itch better unless you already have a previous version of Civ you really really love.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Sky
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Reply #154 on: May 02, 2017, 05:25:51 PM

I hear there's this mod for Civ IV...


[img fappingdaffy.gif[/img

Merusk
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Reply #155 on: May 03, 2017, 05:26:01 AM

You folks just saved me the cost of the game.  I'll wait for an expansion that fixes the game.

Man, I used to love playing Civ...  For those with a Civ itch that don't want to suffer through this game's faults: What game would you recommend to scratch that itch?

There's nothing wrong with the game. It's the best Civ game out there, you will not find something else that scratches the itch better unless you already have a previous version of Civ you really really love.

Yeah, the AI is awful but mechanics-wise I find it a lot more fun than all the prior versions. Lots of little things to keep track of and the systems are genuinely fun for me.  I haven't found anything that scratches the Civ itch like Civ. 

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #156 on: May 03, 2017, 08:19:38 PM

You folks just saved me the cost of the game.  I'll wait for an expansion that fixes the game.

Man, I used to love playing Civ...  For those with a Civ itch that don't want to suffer through this game's faults: What game would you recommend to scratch that itch?

There's nothing wrong with the game. It's the best Civ game out there, you will not find something else that scratches the itch better unless you already have a previous version of Civ you really really love.

Yeah, the AI is awful but mechanics-wise I find it a lot more fun than all the prior versions. Lots of little things to keep track of and the systems are genuinely fun for me.  I haven't found anything that scratches the Civ itch like Civ. 

Alpha Centauri

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Merusk
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Reply #157 on: May 04, 2017, 07:56:34 AM

Nope, AC is its own thing that doesn't scratch the itch, largely because of the unit upgrades and integrated story.  Also it's nearly 2 decades old at this point so the mechanics are more like Civ 3.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Maledict
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Reply #158 on: May 04, 2017, 10:56:04 AM

You folks just saved me the cost of the game.  I'll wait for an expansion that fixes the game.

Man, I used to love playing Civ...  For those with a Civ itch that don't want to suffer through this game's faults: What game would you recommend to scratch that itch?

There's nothing wrong with the game. It's the best Civ game out there, you will not find something else that scratches the itch better unless you already have a previous version of Civ you really really love.

Have to disagree. You can pick up Civ 5 plus both expansions for nothing nowadays, and it's a far superior game than Civ 6. With a couple of expansions under its belt civ 6 might get there, but right now it's a complete mess of a game. The AI is fundamentally broken in a way it never has been before.
Sky
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Reply #159 on: May 04, 2017, 12:39:36 PM

I will always miss transport ships.

lamaros
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Reply #160 on: May 08, 2017, 12:53:05 AM

You folks just saved me the cost of the game.  I'll wait for an expansion that fixes the game.

Man, I used to love playing Civ...  For those with a Civ itch that don't want to suffer through this game's faults: What game would you recommend to scratch that itch?

There's nothing wrong with the game. It's the best Civ game out there, you will not find something else that scratches the itch better unless you already have a previous version of Civ you really really love.

Have to disagree. You can pick up Civ 5 plus both expansions for nothing nowadays, and it's a far superior game than Civ 6. With a couple of expansions under its belt civ 6 might get there, but right now it's a complete mess of a game. The AI is fundamentally broken in a way it never has been before.

Disagree completely, and I've got a few hundred hours in Civ 5.

Don't mistake taste for some sort of objectivity.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Endie
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Reply #161 on: May 09, 2017, 08:52:36 AM

You folks just saved me the cost of the game.  I'll wait for an expansion that fixes the game.

Man, I used to love playing Civ...  For those with a Civ itch that don't want to suffer through this game's faults: What game would you recommend to scratch that itch?

There's nothing wrong with the game. It's the best Civ game out there, you will not find something else that scratches the itch better unless you already have a previous version of Civ you really really love.

Have to disagree. You can pick up Civ 5 plus both expansions for nothing nowadays, and it's a far superior game than Civ 6. With a couple of expansions under its belt civ 6 might get there, but right now it's a complete mess of a game. The AI is fundamentally broken in a way it never has been before.

Disagree completely, and I've got a few hundred hours in Civ 5.

Don't mistake taste for some sort of objectivity.

Never has that last line been truer than when reading Lamaros' opinion on civ 6, which is, to say the least, far from a universally-held opinion.  The recent reviews on steam are down from 75% to 52% positive (a horrible level for a AAA series game) and falling, for instance.  I've not heard the AI defended like that elsewhere since people worked out what it was doing.

My blog: http://endie.net

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Maledict
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Reply #162 on: May 09, 2017, 08:54:13 AM

You folks just saved me the cost of the game.  I'll wait for an expansion that fixes the game.

Man, I used to love playing Civ...  For those with a Civ itch that don't want to suffer through this game's faults: What game would you recommend to scratch that itch?

There's nothing wrong with the game. It's the best Civ game out there, you will not find something else that scratches the itch better unless you already have a previous version of Civ you really really love.

Have to disagree. You can pick up Civ 5 plus both expansions for nothing nowadays, and it's a far superior game than Civ 6. With a couple of expansions under its belt civ 6 might get there, but right now it's a complete mess of a game. The AI is fundamentally broken in a way it never has been before.

Disagree completely, and I've got a few hundred hours in Civ 5.

Don't mistake taste for some sort of objectivity.

The AI is objectively broken. It's nothing to do with taste - I like what they are trying to do with Civ 6 and distrcts, and I've even come around on the graphics.

But the simple fact is the AI doesn't work. At all. It is far worse than even vanilla civ 4 and 5 were. It cannot move units properly. It cannot take cities properly. It doesn't understand districts at all (watch how it places them, which ones it chooses to build, and the fact it just fills up district slots with the first districts available). The diplomacy is completely borked - AI civs have a timer by which they can and will declare war, and you can set your watch by it even if they aren't anywhere near you and have no competing objectives.

None of that is taste. The game objectively has significant issues with the AI. I could list all my other complaints (such as balance!), but AI above all else ruins it for me. When the optimal strategy no matter what is just to spam archers and rush your opponent no matter who and what you are it's not fun. When the fact you're playing on immortal and deity and the AI has two starting cities makes it *better* for you because it means you get more cities from conquering them indicates something is wrong.

None of that is personal opinion. Now, you might be able to ignore those issues - but they are objectively in the game, listed on the forums, and complained about by a huge number of people and still haven't been fixed.
Azuredream
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Reply #163 on: May 09, 2017, 02:38:01 PM

Whether you like the game or not is largely down to how much the clownshoes AI bugs you. As for me, it doesn't bug me that much, so I still play it and enjoy it.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Malakili
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Reply #164 on: May 09, 2017, 06:20:24 PM

It was a bridge too far for me in this one considering one of the things that was supposed to be cool about this version of Civ was a new diplomacy thing.
Khaldun
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Reply #165 on: May 11, 2017, 06:11:47 AM

I could deal with the AI not being able to handle city building and so on. That's generally been the case with most iterations of Civ. I could deal with it not being particularly brilliant in its deployment of units--the danger from AI civs in any iteration has generally just been if they get too much time and space and have enough units to really crush you before you build up a head of steam.

I can't deal with the diplomacy. It's just crazy broken, AND it's a major new element to the game. The diplomacy is supposed to give each civ some personality, but none of them really act according to that personality when all is said and done. They declare war in ways that make no sense at all. Once you're used to it, you realize that all of the trappings of distinctiveness are exactly that: a 'skin' that has nothing to do with how the AI behaves. And the diplomacy is really intrusive--it's one of your major activities in a given game session, but it very quickly becomes total nonsense bullshit. I can't play the game as long as it is a major part of the gameplay.
Merusk
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Reply #166 on: May 11, 2017, 06:41:49 AM

Eh, I ignore it like I always have ignored interacting with other Civs. They're never a real danger if you can make it to gunpowder, which is the real bullshit.

Their motives and declaration of war are always transparent. Viking guy wants you to have a navy. You don't have one - WAR IS DECLARED.  Stygia wants you to have horses. You don't have them. WARS IS DECLARED.  China wants you to stop exploring. You didn't. WAR IS DECLARED.  Brazil is annoyed you have more Wonders... etc. etc. etc.

Far more annoying is they will never, ever, ever embark units. Which means the other Civs are never a threat. Play on islands and win. That's more damning than anything else. However, since I play it as a city and empire builder and not a "I must conquer the world" game I'm fine with that.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Sky
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Reply #167 on: May 11, 2017, 09:23:54 AM

I didn't play enough to notice the embark thing, but wasn't the reason transports were supplanted by embarking because the AI couldn't figure out transports?

I really wish the naval game was better, since I prefer island maps.

But why bother fixing something that has never worked and still moves units?

Merusk
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Reply #168 on: May 11, 2017, 09:52:14 AM

They were, yes. And it worked in IV and V ok. Not great, as they'd do dumb things like send units one at a time without escorts, but at least they'd send them.  Now it seems like the AI never realizes it can send armies across oceans and only embarks them if it's the last point of retreat.

Hell, I'm not entirely sure the AI realizes it can create Corps and Armies, either. I don't think I've ever seen one from an enemy civ. Those things are fucking effective, especially if you Army-up some heavy cavalry or fortification busters.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Khaldun
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Reply #169 on: May 11, 2017, 01:45:28 PM

Never seen one make an army, yeah.

But the Civs actually ignore their own personalities because they're all on a war clock. Scythia doesn't like backstabbing! Except, well, they backstab if their war clock goes off. Gilgamesh likes loyalty and friendship! Unless his war clock goes off. The Viking wants you to have a navy! Unless his war clock goes off, and then he doesn't give a shit if you have one or not.

You really begin to realize that in this one the AI is really just a series of hacks to cover up that there isn't an AI particularly.
Draegan
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Reply #170 on: May 11, 2017, 03:16:04 PM

I'm watching  a run nd AI scythia is pumping out cores and armies like crazy.
Wasted
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Reply #171 on: May 11, 2017, 09:22:43 PM

I've seen AI armies too.

Civ 6 is currently a game that you enjoy despite the diplomacy/AI though, because most other aspects are well done.
Phildo
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Reply #172 on: May 12, 2017, 06:46:08 AM

I should probably give this another try.  I tend to ratchet the difficulty way down in Civ anyway and just roll over everything with my massive empire.  Much more cathartic than getting into another nuclear war with Gandhi.
Endie
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Reply #173 on: May 12, 2017, 08:13:03 AM

I should probably give this another try.  I tend to ratchet the difficulty way down in Civ anyway and just roll over everything with my massive empire.  Much more cathartic than getting into another nuclear war with Gandhi.

Play EUIV instead, with the (I seem to remember) El Dorado expansion.  Create a custom nation for 800 points with a bunch of maxed-out national ideas in morale, discipline and infantry ability, and give yourself both coasts of the channel from Oldenburg down to Caux and south to Paris but with your capital in London.  You'll still have decisions to make but France and England will be crippled enough that you can steadily progress.

The AI is a bazillion times better tha the current state of Civ VI (not perfect, especially around naval warfare, but functional even there) and you will still "win" at most difficulty levels.

Also why are you not on discord this will not stand and is going in your annual review, young man.

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Maledict
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Reply #174 on: May 12, 2017, 08:26:05 AM

I should probably give this another try.  I tend to ratchet the difficulty way down in Civ anyway and just roll over everything with my massive empire.  Much more cathartic than getting into another nuclear war with Gandhi.

Play EUIV instead, with the (I seem to remember) El Dorado expansion.  Create a custom nation for 800 points with a bunch of maxed-out national ideas in morale, discipline and infantry ability, and give yourself both coasts of the channel from Oldenburg down to Caux and south to Paris but with your capital in London.  You'll still have decisions to make but France and England will be crippled enough that you can steadily progress.

The AI is a bazillion times better tha the current state of Civ VI (not perfect, especially around naval warfare, but functional even there) and you will still "win" at most difficulty levels.

Also why are you not on discord this will not stand and is going in your annual review, young man.

Sorry but don't listen to this advice. EUIV is *not* the same type of game as Civ, and even on easy difficulties it is astronomically harder to play than Civ. I love EUIV, but would never advise people to play it if they like polaying on the lower, more relaxing difficulties of Civ!

If you do play on the lower levels, Civ 6 is fine and works great -0 it looks pretty, has some interesting mechanics, and you can crush Gandhi into the ground as all good Civ players should.
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