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Author Topic: Punisher (Marvel)  (Read 2516 times)
Khaldun
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Reply #35 on: November 17, 2017, 03:00:32 PM

I doubt I'll watch this, but it's just because I've never liked the character even when he's been pretty well done in the comics.
Cadaverine
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Reply #36 on: November 18, 2017, 05:10:39 AM

Starts off strong, but it could have been pared down to 10, or even 8 episodes.  The ending was pretty hokey, but other than that, it's the Punisher.

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Ironwood
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Reply #37 on: November 18, 2017, 06:25:18 AM

Ok, that's another trailer down and I'm not feeling this one.  It doesn't feel like Castle to me.

Just me ?


Ok, one episode down and it's made me eat my words by taking them and stuffing them down my throat at high speed.

I was wrong.  Very wrong.

What a fucking great episode 1.

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satael
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Reply #38 on: November 18, 2017, 11:22:45 AM

Starts off strong, but it could have been pared down to 10, or even 8 episodes.  The ending was pretty hokey, but other than that, it's the Punisher.
I'm halfway thru and it certainly feels far too drawn out for the story they have.

edit:finished it and the feeling remains; it was far too long for the story they had.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 12:38:32 AM by satael »
HaemishM
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Reply #39 on: November 18, 2017, 11:54:48 AM

I haven't started watching this one yet (halfway through Iron Fist) and pretty much all the Netflix Marvel series have the same problem - too many episodes for too little story. Daredevil was the best about it but they all sort of start to drag around episode 8 because you can tell they are just padding the story. TV writers still haven't tipped to the idea that they don't have to make comic stories one entire season per story - it's ok to do some one-off episodes that have nothing to do with the main season plot.

Teleku
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Reply #40 on: November 18, 2017, 12:02:36 PM

I don't know, you don't even need that.  You'd think it wouldn't be hard to just write a god damn story that filled the target episodes you are given.  This isn't normal TV writing where they make up shit as they go through the season, on top of not having any set end date for the whole series.  You have an exact number of episodes handed to you.  Why in gods name do you need filler, unless you are just a shitty writer?  Write a 12 episode plot line you fucking twits.

Enjoying it so far, but yeah, they seem to be filling an awful lot of space with random stuff not Frank Castle for no apparent reason.  My only guess is other than the "shitty writes" theory is perhaps a budget thing.  Just having random people talk in a room is way cheaper than filming fight scenes and things being accomplished.  Daredevil probably had the biggest budget, thus why they didn't seem to shy away from him fighting and accomplishing things every episode.  All of these other series...... that's my only guess.

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HaemishM
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Reply #41 on: November 18, 2017, 12:07:36 PM

Sometimes, it's a lot harder to fill episodes even when you know how much space you have. Not only do you have the "can't think of something good" problem, you also have producers, agents and actors who will either 1) want more time for their actor/character, 2) want less time for their actor/character because they are busy filming a movie/other TV show/commercial, and 3) have a limit on the number of new characters you can introduce based on actor contracts.

Not saying the writers may not be shitty, just that there's a fuckload more to writing TV than I think any other type of writing.

MahrinSkel
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Reply #42 on: November 18, 2017, 01:29:01 PM

The "everything at once" binge nature of the consumer may be an enabling factor. On a weekly schedule, a show can't have too many 'filler' episodes, because you'll lose the audience and might not get them back. Main character development and arc pacing has to happen in the cracks of an episode that must stand on its own.

Which can lead to 'villain of the week' in network TV superhero shows, and the Netflix shows may be trying too hard to avoid that.  But this really could have used an episode or two where Frank sees some asshole kick a puppy, so Frank murders his entire bloodline.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #43 on: November 18, 2017, 03:20:45 PM

The "everything at once" binge nature of the consumer may be an enabling factor.

Calling BS on this one. I binged game of thrones seasons 1-5 in a couple weeks a while ago and there were maybe 4 episodes I thought were truly filler, it kept my attention for the entire ride.  The netflix marvel shows ALL just seem to trudge along slowly and it's because each show only has one truly compelling character, the hero.  Ensemble cast shows can hold a series through multiple plotlines because there is no one main protagonist so you end up caring about many of the characters. 
No one gives a shit about the side characters in marvel shows and if you want 13 hour long episodes you cant have only a single character anyone cares about.

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Ironwood
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Reply #44 on: November 18, 2017, 04:11:52 PM

Hmmm.

No.  No, I'm not convinced.  Luke Cage had plenty, Jones had plenty, Daredevil had plenty.  If anything, you're just describing Iron First, which was just one other reason that it sucked the fucking marrow of the Earth.

Also, there's plenty of fucking filler in Game of Thrones.  Like, tons.

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MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #45 on: November 18, 2017, 04:13:11 PM

The "everything at once" binge nature of the consumer may be an enabling factor.

Calling BS on this one. I binged game of thrones seasons 1-5 in a couple weeks a while ago and there were maybe 4 episodes I thought were truly filler, it kept my attention for the entire ride. 
You're kind of making my point: GoT was written as weekly episodes. Almost every episode has an arc and a resolution (although it has a fair number of "phone booth" episodes where everything is dialog, even there they have rising tension and a denouement), in addition to that of the season as a whole and the series as a whole. The Marvel Netflix series are written as a single arc, and an entire episode can go by where nothing significant happens, then every sub-plot tries to complete at once.

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HaemishM
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Reply #46 on: November 18, 2017, 06:12:21 PM

No one gives a shit about the side characters in marvel shows and if you want 13 hour long episodes you cant have only a single character anyone cares about.

I'm only halfway through Iron Fist and I have to disagree. I actually care more about Coleen Wing than Iron Fist, probably because they are really weak on writing Iron Fist's character. Misty Knight, Felicia Hardy and Claire are all compelling characters, though maybe not strong enough to carry a series by themselves.

Cyrrex
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Reply #47 on: November 19, 2017, 01:10:31 AM

Also, Colleen Wing is stupid hot.  Made caring about her a touch easier.

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Ironwood
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Reply #48 on: November 19, 2017, 03:54:50 AM

Alas, also stupidly stupid.  While I cared about her character, I wanted her to just dump IF and run.

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Furiously
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Reply #49 on: November 21, 2017, 02:13:14 AM

Alas, also stupidly stupid.  While I cared about her character, I wanted her to just dump IF and run.


Preferably Baywatch style.

patience
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Reply #50 on: November 22, 2017, 12:14:45 PM

The "everything at once" binge nature of the consumer may be an enabling factor.

Calling BS on this one. I binged game of thrones seasons 1-5 in a couple weeks a while ago and there were maybe 4 episodes I thought were truly filler, it kept my attention for the entire ride.  The netflix marvel shows ALL just seem to trudge along slowly and it's because each show only has one truly compelling character, the hero.  Ensemble cast shows can hold a series through multiple plotlines because there is no one main protagonist so you end up caring about many of the characters. 
No one gives a shit about the side characters in marvel shows and if you want 13 hour long episodes you cant have only a single character anyone cares about.

Nah. Netflix Marvel has 2 at minimum. The hero and a villain. I say A villain instead of the villain because Marvel Netflix usually gives us 2 and the usually pick the wrong one to focus on the most or allow to live for future storylines.


Billy Russo is a great villain and I'm glad it was only Agent Orange who was eliminated.

Besides the heroes and villains there is a side character that usually steals scenes but aside from Patty in Jessica Jones it always the wrong side character getting the most attention. Heck they killed off one of my favorites from the Dare Devil storyline.

OP is assuming its somewhat of a design-goal of eve to make players happy.
this is however not the case.
MediumHigh
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Reply #51 on: November 22, 2017, 07:50:56 PM

Anyway I liked the Punisher. Was it 13 episodes of Frank Castle blowing away white guys with fake Italian ascents? No. Was it more anit-government than I remember frank castle stories being. Yes. Did it have side characters you didn't want to care about? No. Side characters made this work. Frank Castle isn't enough to make a whole series. Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Jessica aren't compelling enough by themselves to make a series, good direction and story generally fills in the gap. It didn't even drag in the middle like every other series (save IF that just dragged the entire time). Was as strong as daredevil no. Buts a pretty decent run, even consistent run that puts it some where in the middle of being my second favorite.


Oh and they gave frank a healing factor. The fuckers a mutant.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 07:53:00 PM by MediumHigh »

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MisterNoisy
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Reply #52 on: November 30, 2017, 10:43:32 PM

Just finished it and I liked it a lot.  I think they could have trimmed about three or four eps by dropping the pressure cooker bomber nonsense and not lost any narrative weight.  It was also awesome seeing Landsman from The Wire doing something.

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Threash
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Reply #53 on: December 01, 2017, 09:00:12 AM

Just finished it myself, thought it was great. My only problem was that the actor playing Billy Russo looked like a malnourished hipster instead of a special forces badass. Dude skipped leg day too many times.

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Soln
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Reply #54 on: December 01, 2017, 03:54:47 PM

Too much filler.  Way too much.  I fast forwarded too many times. Hope they make another series but needs to be tighter.  Good acting though and better direction than IF.
Phildo
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Reply #55 on: December 04, 2017, 06:22:49 AM

I think they could have trimmed about three or four eps by dropping the pressure cooker bomber nonsense and not lost any narrative weight.

I liked the story line as a counterpoint to Frank's own journey, showing how they dealt with coming home damaged from their military service in subtly different ways.
jgsugden
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Reply #56 on: December 04, 2017, 08:55:38 AM

It took me a while to finish and I only had time to watch when dead tired, but I felt this didn't live up to the potential.

How many times was he shot, stabbed, etc...? They took a lot of license having him stand, much less fight, with those injuries.

I do think it puts a different light on the question of how much violence Marvel/Disney would allow if they acquire the Fox rights and get back Deadpool.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 06:27:31 PM by jgsugden »

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Velorath
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Reply #57 on: December 04, 2017, 09:44:13 PM

Enjoyed this well enough largely due to Bernthal and some of the supporting cast. Liked the slight more humanized take on Castle, and in particular his interactions with Micro's family. I agree that there was a lot of filler but I was mostly had this on as background viewing while I was working on other things so it didn't bother me too much.
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Reply #58 on: December 05, 2017, 03:50:40 AM

I enjoyed this a lot.  Alas, I'm forced to agree with JG that the suspension of disbelief was strained multiple times.  The guy heals faster than Logan ffs.

But it worked well for me, even if it didn't end exactly where I thought it would.

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Ginaz
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Reply #59 on: December 09, 2017, 10:01:00 PM

I enjoyed this a lot.  Alas, I'm forced to agree with JG that the suspension of disbelief was strained multiple times.  The guy heals faster than Logan ffs.

But it worked well for me, even if it didn't end exactly where I thought it would.


I have to agree.  I really enjoyed the series overall, probably second favourite next to the first Daredevil, but I felt it was a bit too long and drawn out and the amount of punishment (pun intended) Castle took was way too much for a superhero with no superpowers.

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jgsugden
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Reply #60 on: December 12, 2017, 04:22:10 PM

Season 2 renewal.  The biggest surprise there is that it is renewed for Netflix specifically - I thought Marvel's streaming service would be up and running and get in the way of Netflix having the second season.  The Disney Streaming should happen before late 2019, so I guess we're getting Season 2 of Punisher in early 2019?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 04:27:55 PM by jgsugden »

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