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Title: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: jgsugden on April 29, 2016, 11:55:59 AM
Not a drill... Netflix has given the greenlight. Date TBD.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Teleku on April 29, 2016, 04:22:40 PM
(https://zippy.gfycat.com/FlamboyantUnderstatedGelada.gif)


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Evildrider on April 29, 2016, 05:57:10 PM
Unless Netflix changes their stance on 2 Marvel shows a year, we aren't seeing this til like 2019-2020.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: jgsugden on September 20, 2017, 08:12:20 PM
New materials out there, but still no release date... still expecting this year.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: satael on September 21, 2017, 02:52:26 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIY6zFL95hE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIY6zFL95hE)

I liked how they used Metallica on the trailer.

edit: and they flash a 2017 date at the end of the trailer  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Merusk on September 21, 2017, 07:29:57 AM
That looks great. I'll forgive using an Anti-War song for it.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Teleku on September 21, 2017, 07:57:41 AM
Which song was the anti-war song?

Also, looks very promising!


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: disKret on September 21, 2017, 08:07:47 AM
Which song was the anti-war song?

One?


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: satael on September 21, 2017, 08:09:40 AM
“Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”

edit: yikes, long time since I've listened to Metallica to make a mistake like that


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Merusk on September 21, 2017, 08:30:02 AM
Which song was the anti-war song?

One?

Yes. The story of Johnny isn't exactly extolling the virtues and machismo of sacrificing for cause and country.  It's based on Johnny Got His Gun and uses clips from the movie in the video.  It's absolutely meant as an anti-war song.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Got_His_Gun

Many forget Metallica was called "the thinking man's heavy metal band" because so many of their songs had an underlying political or social message. "Master of Puppets" about the evils of addiction and specifically cocaine. "Blackened" is about nuclear war, "Ride the Lighting" is about the injustice of execution, "Leper Messiah" is a stab at televangelisim like "Make Me Laugh" by Anthrax, and "Disposable Heroes" is their earlier, less-famous anti-war anthem.  

ed: whoops, blackened is nuclear war not environmentalism.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Teleku on September 21, 2017, 09:15:53 AM
My bad, I confused the songs and thought the song playing in the trailer was Master of Puppets, which as you mentioned, is about drug abuse.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: HaemishM on September 21, 2017, 09:36:51 AM
Trailer looks damned good. The use of One is actually pretty perfect even though it's an anti-war song. After all, Punisher doesn't WANT the war, he just feels swept up in it. He's also pretty fucked in the head.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Merusk on September 21, 2017, 09:41:58 AM
Yeah, that's an interesting take on it. I had a similar thought, but I wasn't sure it was the best choice for conveying that.  It is, however, the most kick-ass one.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: HaemishM on September 21, 2017, 09:44:59 AM
Rule of cool over making absolute sense. Slayer's War Ensemble might have been more apt but it wouldn't have been as well known, nor have that difference between the acoustic arpeggios and the driving in your face shit.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Merusk on September 21, 2017, 09:54:25 AM
Agreed!

/metal derail

That trailer was pretty sweet, though. 2017 date, yay.  Just in time for Christmas? A fun time for the whole family!  :awesome_for_real: :drill:


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Threash on September 21, 2017, 11:43:49 AM
I'm going to watch it because I'm more committed to the netflix marvel shows than i've ever been to any person job religion or school but the trailer just looked like a generic 80s Schwarzenegger or Stallone action movie were the main character impossibly shoots down a million bad guys.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: HaemishM on September 21, 2017, 11:53:48 AM
So it pretty much looks like The Punisher then.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Teleku on September 21, 2017, 02:23:16 PM
I actually got the opposite of that.  The very few shots they have of him actually fighting show things more similar to Jon Wick style shooting.  Where they show he is very precise and methodical in his take downs.  Might not work out that way, but considering how amazing the fight coreography in Daredevil was, the action scenes have a lot of potential.  But again, they really didn't show very much, so could end up as you say.

The best takes on Punisher in the comics are when show that he is basically living every moment of his life as if he is still a special forces solider in a war zone.  His 'super power' is basically extreme mental focus (brought on by a severe psychological shock that broke him).  Every action has a purpose and just another step in the endless war he's trapped in.  This combined with his years of experience in black ops war fighting, puts him way ahead of most any criminal.

I was really hoping they would try to do an Afghanistan adaptation of Punisher:  Born for this, but looks like not.  :(


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: jgsugden on September 21, 2017, 02:43:48 PM
The intensity the character has in the comics is hard to maintain constantly on film without it bring flat, especially as a main protagonist. I am eager to see it, but I am going to temper my expectations.

The panel for this weekend where the date was likely to be announced has been canceled due to Vegas.  I'm wondering if they may push the series back a bit to 2018 as well.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: jgsugden on October 19, 2017, 10:29:53 AM
November 17th Release Date.  I'm surprised they did not push it back after the LV incident.  Maybe they want to get it on the air before we end up going to war with North Korea.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Ironwood on October 19, 2017, 10:37:50 AM
If they put something back due to something as common place as a gun massacre, we'd never see it.

And then you'd be a sad panda.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: jgsugden on October 19, 2017, 11:05:35 AM
If they put something back due to something as common place as a gun massacre, we'd never see it.

And then you'd be a sad panda.
True on Panda element.  I'm hoping this is of better quality than Defenders and Inhumans.  Not a high standard, there.

However, that shooting was more than the typical gun news event.  They already canceled the Punisher panel at NY Comic Con in response to it. 



Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Merusk on October 19, 2017, 01:25:31 PM
Uh.. NYCC was the same weekend. Yeah, they canceled it.

There will have been a whole month and a half for the news cycle to bury it by Nov. 17th.

The spice must flow.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: jgsugden on October 19, 2017, 11:31:06 PM
Man, you folks like to act like I have strange ideas when I say things that have been said a lot around the internet.  When they canceled CCNY, there was a lot of speculation they'd push back the series to 2018.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Ironwood on October 20, 2017, 02:59:16 AM
Ok, that's another trailer down and I'm not feeling this one.  It doesn't feel like Castle to me.

Just me ?


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Teleku on October 20, 2017, 03:12:52 AM

Edit:  Doh, just realized there is a brand new trailer out.  Have to wait till after work to watch it.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: HaemishM on October 20, 2017, 09:44:10 AM
Ok, that's another trailer down and I'm not feeling this one.  It doesn't feel like Castle to me.

Just me ?


Yeah, I think it's just you. Felt like Punisher to me, and if you saw Daredevil Season 2, I thought that was the best TV/movie portrayal of the character we've seen.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Ironwood on October 20, 2017, 11:26:58 AM
Yeah, I did.  This, however, seems to be slipping away from that.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Merusk on October 23, 2017, 09:56:22 AM
Man, you folks like to act like I have strange ideas when I say things that have been said a lot around the internet.  When they canceled CCNY, there was a lot of speculation they'd push back the series to 2018.

If WUA were still around he'd have shitloads of examples, with links, as to why you don't listen to the internet about business decisions. Firefly: Serenity as a success was his favorite, followed by the "destruction" of Star Wars as a viable IP via the Prequels.  Two things Nerds and Reality disagree on vehemently.

It matters not one drop what hundreds of thousands to millions of nerds collectively type in bravado on the ether.  It only matters where the dollars are, and what the average consumer's sentiment is.

IF the concerns had made it to the collective consciousness, then yes, it would have been pushed back. The collective consciousness of the US didn't link the two; only that subcategory of comic geeks and nerds.  Ergo; no, it didn't happen.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Teleku on November 17, 2017, 09:39:45 AM
This is now out.  Just watched the first episode.  So far so good!  

I think the acting of some of the side characters and randoms is pretty spotty, but that's been a problem with most of the Marvel Netflix series.  Fight choreography was pretty good though, which is the #1 most important thing in a Punisher show.  Man, the way he kills the last guy at the end of the episode.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Soln on November 17, 2017, 10:27:23 AM
Looking forward to it!


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: jgsugden on November 17, 2017, 12:35:40 PM
...Man, the way he kills the last guy at the end of the episode.   :awesome_for_real:
Geesh, spoilers!  Now we know he kills someone.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: satael on November 17, 2017, 01:05:22 PM
Based on the first episode:  so much better than Iron Fist or Defenders but not really a superhero story.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 17, 2017, 01:21:51 PM
Punisher was never really super. Or a hero.

--Dave


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 17, 2017, 01:30:56 PM
Only worrying critique is that it's a 6 ep story stretched to fit 13 which is worrysome but also kinda expected so every netflix marvel series, so I'm cautiously optimistic.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Khaldun on November 17, 2017, 03:00:32 PM
I doubt I'll watch this, but it's just because I've never liked the character even when he's been pretty well done in the comics.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Cadaverine on November 18, 2017, 05:10:39 AM
Starts off strong, but it could have been pared down to 10, or even 8 episodes.  The ending was pretty hokey, but other than that, it's the Punisher.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Ironwood on November 18, 2017, 06:25:18 AM
Ok, that's another trailer down and I'm not feeling this one.  It doesn't feel like Castle to me.

Just me ?


Ok, one episode down and it's made me eat my words by taking them and stuffing them down my throat at high speed.

I was wrong.  Very wrong.

What a fucking great episode 1.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: satael on November 18, 2017, 11:22:45 AM
Starts off strong, but it could have been pared down to 10, or even 8 episodes.  The ending was pretty hokey, but other than that, it's the Punisher.
I'm halfway thru and it certainly feels far too drawn out for the story they have.

edit:finished it and the feeling remains; it was far too long for the story they had.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: HaemishM on November 18, 2017, 11:54:48 AM
I haven't started watching this one yet (halfway through Iron Fist) and pretty much all the Netflix Marvel series have the same problem - too many episodes for too little story. Daredevil was the best about it but they all sort of start to drag around episode 8 because you can tell they are just padding the story. TV writers still haven't tipped to the idea that they don't have to make comic stories one entire season per story - it's ok to do some one-off episodes that have nothing to do with the main season plot.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Teleku on November 18, 2017, 12:02:36 PM
I don't know, you don't even need that.  You'd think it wouldn't be hard to just write a god damn story that filled the target episodes you are given.  This isn't normal TV writing where they make up shit as they go through the season, on top of not having any set end date for the whole series.  You have an exact number of episodes handed to you.  Why in gods name do you need filler, unless you are just a shitty writer?  Write a 12 episode plot line you fucking twits.

Enjoying it so far, but yeah, they seem to be filling an awful lot of space with random stuff not Frank Castle for no apparent reason.  My only guess is other than the "shitty writes" theory is perhaps a budget thing.  Just having random people talk in a room is way cheaper than filming fight scenes and things being accomplished.  Daredevil probably had the biggest budget, thus why they didn't seem to shy away from him fighting and accomplishing things every episode.  All of these other series...... that's my only guess.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: HaemishM on November 18, 2017, 12:07:36 PM
Sometimes, it's a lot harder to fill episodes even when you know how much space you have. Not only do you have the "can't think of something good" problem, you also have producers, agents and actors who will either 1) want more time for their actor/character, 2) want less time for their actor/character because they are busy filming a movie/other TV show/commercial, and 3) have a limit on the number of new characters you can introduce based on actor contracts.

Not saying the writers may not be shitty, just that there's a fuckload more to writing TV than I think any other type of writing.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 18, 2017, 01:29:01 PM
The "everything at once" binge nature of the consumer may be an enabling factor. On a weekly schedule, a show can't have too many 'filler' episodes, because you'll lose the audience and might not get them back. Main character development and arc pacing has to happen in the cracks of an episode that must stand on its own.

Which can lead to 'villain of the week' in network TV superhero shows, and the Netflix shows may be trying too hard to avoid that.  But this really could have used an episode or two where Frank sees some asshole kick a puppy, so Frank murders his entire bloodline.

--Dave


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 18, 2017, 03:20:45 PM
The "everything at once" binge nature of the consumer may be an enabling factor.

Calling BS on this one. I binged game of thrones seasons 1-5 in a couple weeks a while ago and there were maybe 4 episodes I thought were truly filler, it kept my attention for the entire ride.  The netflix marvel shows ALL just seem to trudge along slowly and it's because each show only has one truly compelling character, the hero.  Ensemble cast shows can hold a series through multiple plotlines because there is no one main protagonist so you end up caring about many of the characters. 
No one gives a shit about the side characters in marvel shows and if you want 13 hour long episodes you cant have only a single character anyone cares about.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Ironwood on November 18, 2017, 04:11:52 PM
Hmmm.

No.  No, I'm not convinced.  Luke Cage had plenty, Jones had plenty, Daredevil had plenty.  If anything, you're just describing Iron First, which was just one other reason that it sucked the fucking marrow of the Earth.

Also, there's plenty of fucking filler in Game of Thrones.  Like, tons.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 18, 2017, 04:13:11 PM
The "everything at once" binge nature of the consumer may be an enabling factor.

Calling BS on this one. I binged game of thrones seasons 1-5 in a couple weeks a while ago and there were maybe 4 episodes I thought were truly filler, it kept my attention for the entire ride. 
You're kind of making my point: GoT was written as weekly episodes. Almost every episode has an arc and a resolution (although it has a fair number of "phone booth" episodes where everything is dialog, even there they have rising tension and a denouement), in addition to that of the season as a whole and the series as a whole. The Marvel Netflix series are written as a single arc, and an entire episode can go by where nothing significant happens, then every sub-plot tries to complete at once.

--Dave


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: HaemishM on November 18, 2017, 06:12:21 PM
No one gives a shit about the side characters in marvel shows and if you want 13 hour long episodes you cant have only a single character anyone cares about.

I'm only halfway through Iron Fist and I have to disagree. I actually care more about Coleen Wing than Iron Fist, probably because they are really weak on writing Iron Fist's character. Misty Knight, Felicia Hardy and Claire are all compelling characters, though maybe not strong enough to carry a series by themselves.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Cyrrex on November 19, 2017, 01:10:31 AM
Also, Colleen Wing is stupid hot.  Made caring about her a touch easier.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Ironwood on November 19, 2017, 03:54:50 AM
Alas, also stupidly stupid.  While I cared about her character, I wanted her to just dump IF and run.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Furiously on November 21, 2017, 02:13:14 AM
Alas, also stupidly stupid.  While I cared about her character, I wanted her to just dump IF and run.


Preferably Baywatch style.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: patience on November 22, 2017, 12:14:45 PM
The "everything at once" binge nature of the consumer may be an enabling factor.

Calling BS on this one. I binged game of thrones seasons 1-5 in a couple weeks a while ago and there were maybe 4 episodes I thought were truly filler, it kept my attention for the entire ride.  The netflix marvel shows ALL just seem to trudge along slowly and it's because each show only has one truly compelling character, the hero.  Ensemble cast shows can hold a series through multiple plotlines because there is no one main protagonist so you end up caring about many of the characters. 
No one gives a shit about the side characters in marvel shows and if you want 13 hour long episodes you cant have only a single character anyone cares about.

Nah. Netflix Marvel has 2 at minimum. The hero and a villain. I say A villain instead of the villain because Marvel Netflix usually gives us 2 and the usually pick the wrong one to focus on the most or allow to live for future storylines.


Billy Russo is a great villain and I'm glad it was only Agent Orange who was eliminated.

Besides the heroes and villains there is a side character that usually steals scenes but aside from Patty in Jessica Jones it always the wrong side character getting the most attention. Heck they killed off one of my favorites from the Dare Devil storyline.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: MediumHigh on November 22, 2017, 07:50:56 PM
Anyway I liked the Punisher. Was it 13 episodes of Frank Castle blowing away white guys with fake Italian ascents? No. Was it more anit-government than I remember frank castle stories being. Yes. Did it have side characters you didn't want to care about? No. Side characters made this work. Frank Castle isn't enough to make a whole series. Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Jessica aren't compelling enough by themselves to make a series, good direction and story generally fills in the gap. It didn't even drag in the middle like every other series (save IF that just dragged the entire time). Was as strong as daredevil no. Buts a pretty decent run, even consistent run that puts it some where in the middle of being my second favorite.


Oh and they gave frank a healing factor. The fuckers a mutant.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: MisterNoisy on November 30, 2017, 10:43:32 PM
Just finished it and I liked it a lot.  I think they could have trimmed about three or four eps by dropping the pressure cooker bomber nonsense and not lost any narrative weight.  It was also awesome seeing Landsman from The Wire doing something.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Threash on December 01, 2017, 09:00:12 AM
Just finished it myself, thought it was great. My only problem was that the actor playing Billy Russo looked like a malnourished hipster instead of a special forces badass. Dude skipped leg day too many times.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Soln on December 01, 2017, 03:54:47 PM
Too much filler.  Way too much.  I fast forwarded too many times. Hope they make another series but needs to be tighter.  Good acting though and better direction than IF.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Phildo on December 04, 2017, 06:22:49 AM
I think they could have trimmed about three or four eps by dropping the pressure cooker bomber nonsense and not lost any narrative weight.

I liked the story line as a counterpoint to Frank's own journey, showing how they dealt with coming home damaged from their military service in subtly different ways.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: jgsugden on December 04, 2017, 08:55:38 AM
It took me a while to finish and I only had time to watch when dead tired, but I felt this didn't live up to the potential.

How many times was he shot, stabbed, etc...? They took a lot of license having him stand, much less fight, with those injuries.

I do think it puts a different light on the question of how much violence Marvel/Disney would allow if they acquire the Fox rights and get back Deadpool.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Velorath on December 04, 2017, 09:44:13 PM
Enjoyed this well enough largely due to Bernthal and some of the supporting cast. Liked the slight more humanized take on Castle, and in particular his interactions with Micro's family. I agree that there was a lot of filler but I was mostly had this on as background viewing while I was working on other things so it didn't bother me too much.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Ironwood on December 05, 2017, 03:50:40 AM
I enjoyed this a lot.  Alas, I'm forced to agree with JG that the suspension of disbelief was strained multiple times.  The guy heals faster than Logan ffs.

But it worked well for me, even if it didn't end exactly where I thought it would.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: Ginaz on December 09, 2017, 10:01:00 PM
I enjoyed this a lot.  Alas, I'm forced to agree with JG that the suspension of disbelief was strained multiple times.  The guy heals faster than Logan ffs.

But it worked well for me, even if it didn't end exactly where I thought it would.


I have to agree.  I really enjoyed the series overall, probably second favourite next to the first Daredevil, but I felt it was a bit too long and drawn out and the amount of punishment (pun intended) Castle took was way too much for a superhero with no superpowers.


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: jgsugden on December 12, 2017, 04:22:10 PM
Season 2 renewal.  The biggest surprise there is that it is renewed for Netflix specifically - I thought Marvel's streaming service would be up and running and get in the way of Netflix having the second season.  The Disney Streaming should happen before late 2019, so I guess we're getting Season 2 of Punisher in early 2019?


Title: Re: Punisher (Marvel)
Post by: eldaec on December 28, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
Finished this.

Enjoyed it.

Didn't mind the number of episodes and enjoyed the way it started slow and accelerated, in contrast to DD and JJ which started too fast and then had to take a 3 episode time out in the middle.

Others have pointed out the healing thing - seems it could have been fixed here just by spreading the timeline out a bit. Writers these days seem to believe a series  like this has to play out over 7 days at most. But the story would have been fine told over a year or more.

Action was pretty great - the other series have been able to rely on melee combat to make them look good. Doing things this well with guns is unusual.