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Author Topic: Star Wars Rebels  (Read 3396 times)
Evildrider
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on: April 08, 2016, 09:14:18 PM

Do we really not have a thread for this? 

The season 2 finale was amazing.  This show just pushes all my SW buttons.   awesome, for real
Khaldun
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Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 10:00:14 PM

I really disliked the first 5 or so episodes but it's totally hit its stride now.

I think the major thing that they still haven't explained unless I missed it is why the droid is a psychopath.
jgsugden
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Reply #2 on: April 09, 2016, 12:37:07 AM

I've enjoyed it for the most part, but it is missing something.  It seems to be stuck... the story needs an overarching goal that is more central, I think.

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Reply #3 on: April 09, 2016, 01:57:55 PM

They're trying too hard to avoid the whole, all these people die and are relatively irrelevant to the Rebellion thing. Removes a lot of the potential for any real drive to the story.

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Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 03:04:12 PM

I guess. I don't actually see why any of them have to die, especially the non-Jedis. The non-Jedis could be walking around in the background at Yavin or on some other Rebel base. We don't have to imagine that every important Rebel has been seen in the main trilogy. The Jedi-types are more of a problem. I could imagine that Ezra and Kanan either die or eventually have to flee. I think in general that the new owners haven't figured out yet whether there were surviving Jedi who hid successfully like Obi-Wan or who didn't even hide but went way out to the edges of the galaxy beyond the Empire's control. The only thing that says they didn't is Yoda saying to Luke that he's the last of the Jedi, but...Yoda and Obi-Wan have lied to Luke before that point. "A different point of view". They might mean that Ahsoka, Kanan, Ezra and other Force-wielders with Jedi training have walked away from the Jedi Order because it's a fucking failure but haven't gone Sith. In fact, Yoda and Obi-Wan could be the equivalent of religious fanatics trying to manipulate their last possible follower. Maybe that's what went wrong with Luke's new Jedi Academy--he was trying to keep the old religion alive when there were both some darkside rivals *and* some non-Jedi lightside rivals to it, and all Luke could attract were the folks who washed out of both sides and his nephew.
jgsugden
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Reply #5 on: April 09, 2016, 07:36:37 PM

I'm not sure if we've heard if any of them might make appearances in Rogue One...
... but I think that finale hinted at a story for Ezra.

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Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 06:26:04 PM

If none of them die, then the series loses the cache Clone Wars earned for animated series. There were lots of major character deaths in that one, and since Vader is on their heels the plot armor contrivances will get to be too much to make this a good series. (Sabine should have at least been wounded when Vader deflected her blaster right into her face, for example. Ashoka surviving the season closer as another.)

Yes, we can hand-wave the whole, "Not really Jedi, etc, etc" thing to sell more toys, but in the end it makes it a worse story over-all. Just my opinion.

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Evildrider
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Reply #7 on: April 10, 2016, 06:35:11 PM

Filoni admitted that he was squeezing in the Vader/Ahsoka thing as fan service to Clone Wars fans and that they won't be used as much anymore.  Maul seems to be the big bad for next season.
Khaldun
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Reply #8 on: April 10, 2016, 09:52:37 PM

I think having a guy who got cut in half still be around to be a big bad as a part of the new canon means that saying "Clone Wars earned cred by killing characters" is maybe pushing it a bit.

I don't see why having a bunch of early Rebels around somewhere on missions circa ANH is in any way a requirement of canon. It's really only Ezra, Kanan and Ahsoka who raise questions. I would not at all object if there's some ex-Jedi in hiding or some grey Force wielders around. In fact, I'm sort of hoping that the sequels eventually find a way to dump the "you're light side or dark side, nothing else" concept. What better way than to have some ambiguous ex-Jedis floating around in the expanded stories?

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Reply #9 on: April 10, 2016, 10:22:26 PM

The model they used for Anakin in that holo was fucking terrible. Like Sardu from The Strain terrible. I realize they're using way less, uh, complicated, expensive, whatever graphics than Clone Wars did. But that fucking thing did just fit in the visual style of the show.

Other than that it's an okay show, but lacks any of the weight or significance of the Clone Wars shows.

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Reply #10 on: April 11, 2016, 03:22:22 PM

My 7 year old son and daughter absolutely love this show, and it's nice to have something that the entire family can enjoy watching together.

During the season 2 finale, I swelled with pride:  my son gasped and said "Ashoka has to be careful and not use the dark side!"  I said, "Why not, I bet force lightning would be very powerful!", and he turned to me and said very seriously, "Because once you start down the dark path, forever will it nominate your destiny!"

His geek card gets it's very first punch. :)

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Reply #11 on: April 11, 2016, 07:49:40 PM

Honestly I saw flying lightsaber guys, got Ep 1-3 PTSD and left the room.

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Khaldun
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Reply #12 on: April 11, 2016, 08:45:47 PM

The helicopter thing is a bit goofy.
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Reply #13 on: April 30, 2016, 12:49:24 AM

In fact, I'm sort of hoping that the sequels eventually find a way to dump the "you're light side or dark side, nothing else" concept.

I hope the exact opposite. Once we bring in grey force users it really stops being the Star Wars I grew up with. Star Wars was always, at its heart, essentially part Fable, part Flash Gordon adventure serial with the simplistic morality that implies. It's part of what makes it what it is.

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Khaldun
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Reply #14 on: April 30, 2016, 07:49:23 AM

I don't think "grey" in this context needs to mean that Star Wars becomes Game of Thrones. You'd still have your pureheart Jedi and you'd still have your evil Dark Force users. But if you think about tales of chivalry, there are also great characters who are a bit in-between. Star Wars already has that really--if we ignore the "Greedo shot first" nonsense, there are heroic characters in the series who are also "scoundrels" of some kind of another. I think there's room for a Jedi who is a big-hearted hedonist, for example--someone who is so full of life that they drink and whore and party but who is unambiguously on the side of light in everything that matters. Chaotic good Jedi. Or a Jedi who is cynical and mistrusting but who generally always does the right thing. Basically for "Light Side Force wielders" who are not Jedi and don't follow the Jedi way. I really hope they're going that way in the current sequels especially, since whether Lucas meant to do or not, the grand story of the first six films plus the Clone Wars cartoon is that the Jedi way was badly flawed and contributed indirectly to its own destruction.
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Reply #15 on: April 30, 2016, 08:44:48 AM

"Grey jedi" is a pretty bad idea.

We argue perspective without doing away with the basic star wars moral code.

We start saying grey jedi than there is no perspective, only "are you a religious fanatic".

For example the jedi and the jedi council are undeniably the "good guys". We know this because they don't oppress people with the force or assume leadership despite the fact that the force undeniably gives you an edge over non-force users in short term and long term judgement. However is the council and by extension the civilian government they throw their support behind inherently better for the galaxy? Well maybe not. Or maybe they are, really depends on what perspective you take.

They grey jedi by their nature fit directly with the way we view our world and that's just makes it not star wars. Question like "why aren't all the "good guys" grey jedi" start to rise because obviously the grey jedi have the best perspective of the world around them because its that matches most peoples point of view. The jedi path is far too straight and narrow if you think about, anyone that conforms to that is either useless or evil.

And at that exact point you stop talking about star wars. 

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jgsugden
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Reply #16 on: April 30, 2016, 10:45:13 AM

If you object to the idea of unlined Force Wielders, the next 5 years will be rough.

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Riggswolfe
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Reply #17 on: April 30, 2016, 11:32:40 AM

I don't think "grey" in this context needs to mean that Star Wars becomes Game of Thrones. You'd still have your pureheart Jedi and you'd still have your evil Dark Force users. But if you think about tales of chivalry, there are also great characters who are a bit in-between. Star Wars already has that really--if we ignore the "Greedo shot first" nonsense, there are heroic characters in the series who are also "scoundrels" of some kind of another. I think there's room for a Jedi who is a big-hearted hedonist, for example--someone who is so full of life that they drink and whore and party but who is unambiguously on the side of light in everything that matters. Chaotic good Jedi. Or a Jedi who is cynical and mistrusting but who generally always does the right thing. Basically for "Light Side Force wielders" who are not Jedi and don't follow the Jedi way. I really hope they're going that way in the current sequels especially, since whether Lucas meant to do or not, the grand story of the first six films plus the Clone Wars cartoon is that the Jedi way was badly flawed and contributed indirectly to its own destruction.


No, but you introduce moral relativism to the Force and that's never what it has been about. Star Wars has always been about a fight between good and evil, light and dark. Once you throw in grey Jedi (which arose because people wanted a way to show characters using Force Lightning who weren't evil, let's be honest here) you're tossing that aside and that's tossing aside the core of Star Wars. Star Wars isn't meant to reflect shades of grey, not when you're talking about Jedi. It's like turning Superman into a gritty, tortured soul who is never happy and isn't a beacon of hope. (Couldn't help taking a shot at DC but it's also true.)

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Rishathra
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Reply #18 on: April 30, 2016, 12:03:22 PM

I think we should make a distinction between "grey Jedi" and "grey Force user,"  because Khaldun brings up a good point.

Quote from: Khaldun
since whether Lucas meant to do or not, the grand story of the first six films plus the Clone Wars cartoon is that the Jedi way was badly flawed and contributed indirectly to its own destruction.

I would argue that it was more direct than indirect, honestly. 

Keep the Force black and white, certainly, otherwise it stops being Star Wars.  But realizing that Jedi =/ all good would be an interesting avenue to explore in future stories.

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Reply #19 on: April 30, 2016, 05:01:24 PM

One of the inspirations for Star Wars was Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress. That film and Seven Samurai definitely have heroes who are well-trained, follow a code of honor, and yet have some pretty different views about what they're obliged to do and how they're obliged to behave. I think there's room in Star Wars for that. I almost think they have to go there, given how flawed the Jedi ultimately were as a group or organization.
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Reply #20 on: May 01, 2016, 12:40:28 AM

I think there's room for a Jedi who is a big-hearted hedonist, for example--someone who is so full of life that they drink and whore and party

Maybe if there are Sith jedi, because that's literally the first line in the Sith Code.

Quote
PEACE IS A LIE. THERE IS ONLY PASSION.

THROUGH PASSION, I GAIN STRENGTH.

THROUGH STRENGTH, I GAIN POWER.

THROUGH POWER, I GAIN VICTORY.

THROUGH VICTORY, I GAIN FREEDOM.

THROUGH FREEDOM, MY CHAINS ARE BROKEN.

THE FORCE SHALL FREE ME.

There's a reason the Jedi require emotionally neutered detachment. Desire and love are much more dangerous passions than fear and anger, they're just harder to tap into quickly. But it's how we got Darth Vader. It's also one of the reasons why a lot of people (in universe) disliked the Jedi. Detached space buddhists observing planetwide misery without interfering is annoying. And that's how we got Grievous and countless others.

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Reply #21 on: May 01, 2016, 06:06:06 AM

I guess. Except the Jedi interfered a lot. They're not Star Fleet. If they were really serious about being detached Space Buddhists they wouldn't even bother. Life is suffering; there is only the Force.
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Reply #22 on: May 01, 2016, 09:35:57 AM

They work as detached mediators and peace keepers.  Their job IS to get involved.  Just in a cold, detached manner so they can arbitrate disputes or deal out justice fairly.  They are the galactic peacekeepers.  Which again, would tend to make them not to popular among the masses, no matter how needed they are to keep the galaxy from eating itself.

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Sir T
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Reply #23 on: May 01, 2016, 12:41:20 PM

You guys are putting waaay more thought into this than the makers are...

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
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Reply #24 on: May 01, 2016, 03:46:38 PM

It wouldn't be Star Wars otherwise!

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TheWalrus
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Reply #25 on: May 01, 2016, 10:52:53 PM

You guys are putting waaay more thought into this than the makers are...

Sadly, not hard to do.

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Evildrider
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Reply #26 on: July 16, 2016, 01:32:17 PM

Season 3 Trailer.

Looks soo good, can't wait for next season.  Also Thrawn bitches.  Never thought I'd see him outside of the novels.   awesome, for real
Khaldun
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Reply #27 on: July 16, 2016, 09:40:58 PM

I just hope, despite those snaky things behind him, that they're not bringing back yslamiri, which were a totally stupid thing.
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Reply #28 on: July 18, 2016, 09:43:55 AM

I just hope, despite those snaky things behind him, that they're not bringing back yslamiri, which were a totally stupid thing.


Indeed.  I guess I'll need to start watching Star Wars Rebels but I really, really hope they don't pull the typical crap of a group of kids with "a lot of heart" or whatever are able to beat Thrawn.  I'm still annoyed about Ahsoka being able to go toe to toe with Grievous for more than two seconds in the last show, even if it was targeted at kids.

Yes, I'm a nerd and get salty over stuff like that.

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Reply #29 on: July 18, 2016, 10:15:37 AM

On thing they've been good about is keeping these guys at the losing end of the spectrum. Small victories but when they're up against iconic characters they've lost. I don't want to say lost big because nobody's died at all, but it was still a loss.

I'd expect the same from Thrawn. Maybe enough of a set-back for him to be sent to the Outer Rim, but they aren't going to defeat the guy. Hell, they didn't really even defeat the Sith Inquisitors, that was largely Ashoka and Maul's doing.

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Reply #30 on: July 18, 2016, 10:38:45 AM

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