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Author Topic: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit  (Read 6040 times)
Endie
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on: January 18, 2016, 02:02:33 PM

CCP have released a new devblog explaining how the new system for stripping skills from a character and injecting them into another is to work: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/

Tl;dr strip 500k skill points from a character, sell the injector for isk or aurum, diminishing returns for higher-skillpoint characters.

The response from those with younger and medium-age characters has been broadly positive, while that from a handful of bittervets has been sulky, with ocassional hyper-retards like jesters trek coming up with fanciful scenarios that ignore the fact that the same end can be achieved with the character bazaar.

My blog: http://endie.net

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
ajax34i
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Reply #1 on: January 18, 2016, 07:28:13 PM

Yeah, I've been reading the various forums, looking for entertainment.

I'm guessing that those who want to buy SP are excited, but I'm not sure how many of the veterans would actually take SP out of their heads, seeing how:

- veterans don't really need ISK
- even if they did, it's more effective to buy PLEX and sell it for ISK
- CCP always reimburses SPs for major ship overhauls, so I'm not seeing any group of players being left with "suddenly useless" skills trained

I enjoy watching CCP be CCP, though. 

Maybe it's a coincidence, but to me it looks like someone mentioned the idea in passing, and they saw it and liked it, cause 3 weeks later, boom devblog, and now (3 months later) devblog again, pretty much unchanged.  This despite the fact that they had a thread open in Features and Ideas that had only one purpose:  to let people bash the idea of buying skillpoints with ISK or PLEX in a single thread, rather than all over General Discussion (and bash they did).

So I think this is being implemented no matter what anyone replies.   I'm expecting prices that are completely out-of-reach for newbies, and otherwise a high-demand no-supply market.
Endie
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Reply #2 on: January 19, 2016, 03:01:54 AM

I fully intend to tidy up my main characters by stripping the embarrassing and useless trains (defender missiles, mining etc) and injecting them into my low skill-point alt "Endie" which I finally got hold of last year.

My blog: http://endie.net

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Sir T
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Reply #3 on: January 19, 2016, 06:00:43 AM

Yeah I can see Vets using it to zoink up their alts to acceptable standard, but I cant see it doing much for new characters without the benefit of mommys credit card.

Be principled, but not too principled.
Endie
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Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 08:09:43 AM

Yeah I can see Vets using it to zoink up their alts to acceptable standard, but I cant see it doing much for new characters without the benefit of mommys credit card.

The demographic of eve players is older than that for CoD etc so I imagine that they will do quite well out of people boosting new players, whether as alts or just to get into the game sooner.  Also, some alliances will probably hand out skill boosts to newer members, although the economics suggest it won't be as widespread as mittens initially suggested for karmafleet, at least according to the maths I did on the fly yesterday.

My blog: http://endie.net

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Meester
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Reply #5 on: January 19, 2016, 11:31:03 PM

I fully intend to tidy up my main characters by stripping the embarrassing and useless trains (defender missiles, mining etc) and injecting them into my low skill-point alt "Endie" which I finally got hold of last year.

But according to CCP [from sometime] the skills won't actually disappear from your character!
You will still be stained by a mining skill in your skill list albeit at 0 sp trained and level 0.

Any chance you could talk to CCP about getting the actual skill removed from your skill list?
If it doesn't break the game o course ^-^
Setanta
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Reply #6 on: January 20, 2016, 02:11:41 AM

I asked them about this when I realised I had Controlled Bursts on my pure Minmatar. I really wanted it gone as I have no plans to fly anything but rust with her. I really wanted it gone but their answer was no when I petitioned them.

So I trained it to V and pretend that it never happened.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Endie
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Reply #7 on: January 20, 2016, 03:37:02 AM

You gotta own your spodumain processing shame.

My blog: http://endie.net

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Amarr HM
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Reply #8 on: January 20, 2016, 09:56:32 AM

My current main character has about 15-20m Sp in assorted useless things, so this will be useful. Just wish I could change the name.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Endie
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Reply #9 on: January 20, 2016, 01:45:00 PM

My current main character has about 15-20m Sp in assorted useless things, so this will be useful. Just wish I could change the name.

I've never known you to have a main that had a good name.  The current one, at least, would be funny to hear called as a primary on a recording of the hostiles.

My blog: http://endie.net

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Amarr HM
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Reply #10 on: January 20, 2016, 02:10:46 PM

Too right I've never been good at choosing names, my first one was supposed to be a joke and then I got stuck with it the more I trained and got absorbed. Then my alt, who is now my main, was setup as a datacore alt - so just threw in first thing popped into my head. Speaking of which - those datacore skills will be sold (along with the mining ones)!

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
ajax34i
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Reply #11 on: January 20, 2016, 06:18:53 PM

Heh, my first character, I created this whole background that he was just a clone serial number, and picked an alphanumeric name for him.  Unfortunately, the only actual numbers that I used inside the name were 1, 3, and 4, so people kept trying to leet-speak pronounce it, to decipher the "code."
ajax34i
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Reply #12 on: January 20, 2016, 08:22:43 PM

You know what would be cool for everyone who wants to put useless points to better use?  An actual skill remapping feature, for just an Aurum fee, without all the extractor and injector hassle.
Gets
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Reply #13 on: January 21, 2016, 04:39:15 AM

That would be too straightforward. They needed something that wouldn't take away character transfer revenue.
Amarr HM
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Reply #14 on: January 21, 2016, 09:43:13 AM

Wouldn't it be the same revenue just moved to a more convenient implementation?

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Endie
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Reply #15 on: January 21, 2016, 12:49:58 PM

Wouldn't it be the same revenue just moved to a more convenient implementation?

I suspect that there will be some overlap, but that this will mainly be additional revenue.

My blog: http://endie.net

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Sir T
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Reply #16 on: January 22, 2016, 10:49:11 AM

I'd Agree. However I think it will be a big bump in the beginning that will rapidly tail off. There are not that many old players to think that shedding skillpoints will go on indefinitely and its a limited resource in any case. Plus, wiser players will want to beep their other racial skills in case the Meta changes a few months down the road and a new race is now "the best."

Be principled, but not too principled.
ajax34i
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Reply #17 on: January 23, 2016, 08:32:17 AM

In the official thread, they're arguing against that with examples of how people can set up accounts and get a character training with only 2 of 5 of the best implants, then every month extract up to 4 injectors for sale.   The fixed skillpoints/minute training rate becomes skillpoints/portion-of-subscription-cost, becomes skillpoints/subscription-plex, with the aurum cost of the extractor becoming just a tax by CCP.  The profitability of farming skillpoints to get ISK this way will be calculable as soon as CCP releases their Aurum cost for it, and thus right now is a bit uncertain.  What is certain, though, is that there will be a huge supply of injectors if skillpoint farming is profitable.

So, in EVE, people don't think "if", they think "when", and figure that the market will just naturally reach a minimum price point for skill injectors of (1/4 of a plex + aurum cost), and what you'll see is a glut of them, just like there is a glut of plexes in Jita now, with people 0.01'ing each other daytrading to make a profit.  

CCP will see some income from Aurum, and some more income from 20,000 new "sp farm" accounts, characters that never log in but train all the time, set to the cheapest (yearly) subscription, with the +5 cha/mem implants (cha implants are the cheapest), perpetually training and then extracting some Social skill for maximum efficiency.  

There are no delays, randomness, or competition to the production of (filled up) injectors; it's a guaranteed process, like mining.  Market will be saturated, and prices will settle to the minimum possible where you can still make a profit if you 0.01 with a vengeance.

They've probably already started the market speculation / manipulation on +5 implants, and cha implants in general, in anticipation of this whole thing.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 08:50:31 AM by ajax34i »
Sir T
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Reply #18 on: January 23, 2016, 10:33:29 AM

Very interesting. The possibility of having "SP Cattle" characters to harvest SP from never really occurred to me.

So, effectively, long term they are creating an XP Boost for those people who are willing to pay CCP for XP. Not that there is anything wrong with that.  Ohhhhh, I see.

Be principled, but not too principled.
ajax34i
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Reply #19 on: January 23, 2016, 10:49:54 AM

Well, continuing the thought, high-sec players will inject to maximize trading skills (lower taxes), social skills (more ISK injected into the economy from missions), mining output (more minerals), production skills (multiple research lines, multiple production lines going), PI, moon goo, etc.   Ships should be cheaper, T2 items should be cheaper.

Of course, null-sec players will inject to titan or super or whatever warship gives them a hard-on, then they'll want to take it for a spit, hopefully resulting in more wars, which should balance the prices.

All in all, TQ will probably move a little bit closer to being like the test server, where we can jump into any ship we fancy, to "test" things, without a lot of waiting.  Whether or not CCP wants that remains to be seen.
Setanta
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Reply #20 on: January 23, 2016, 08:25:32 PM

How much can you strip from characters? While I'm sentimental about my pilots, I have 2 hulk pilots tthat I never mine with and a JF/Orca pilot that never goes anywhere.

I'm quite tempted to rend them down into SP for my other characters - particularrly as I have about 6 years of unsubbed time with my '06

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
ajax34i
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Reply #21 on: January 23, 2016, 08:30:55 PM

You can strip your characters all the way down to 5 million SP left in their brain; each extraction session being 500k points and costing you some Aurum for the extractor.  Price is likely to get prohibitive; to extract 50 million points, you'll need 100 extractors, and it's likely that will cost you dozens of PLEX in Aurum fees.  People want to move their skills around, but paying hundreds of dollars to do it is another matter.  CCP has kept quiet about the exact Aurum cost.

Also, when you inject the points, there's a loss:  newbies get 500k, vets get 400k, then 300k, then 150k, depending on how many millions of points you already have.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 08:38:27 PM by ajax34i »
Merusk
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Reply #22 on: January 23, 2016, 09:01:27 PM

Very interesting. The possibility of having "SP Cattle" characters to harvest SP from never really occurred to me.

Never? Not even a little bit?

Because I haven't played the game since 2010 and that's the FIRST thing I thought of.

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Sir T
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Reply #23 on: January 24, 2016, 01:55:53 AM

Nope. I can be very uncreative in thinking about these things at times.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Be principled, but not too principled.
Phildo
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Reply #24 on: January 24, 2016, 07:25:57 PM

Depends on how the diminishing returns work, it might not do anything at all for guys with 100m+ skill points.
ajax34i
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Reply #25 on: January 27, 2016, 08:04:53 AM

Link to a Crossing Zebras article was posted in the official thread discussing the skill injectors, that reveals that CCP is going to use a monetization / microtransactions middle layer (Aria) for its new Valkyrie game, and eventually for all its games, including EVE.
Sir T
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Reply #26 on: January 27, 2016, 09:47:17 AM

Isn't that what Auram was supposed to be?

Be principled, but not too principled.
ajax34i
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Reply #27 on: January 27, 2016, 03:06:04 PM

No, Aurum is just a coin that was introduced to solve the issue that otherwise things could only cost multiples of 1 PLEX = $20.  With 1000 Aurum = $5, they gained the ability to offer minor cosmetic items (ship SKINs) for $0.99, $0.50, etc.

From what I'm reading, Aria is actually middleware, probably sits between your EVE client and CCP's EVE servers, and taxes everything. 

I don't think they'll go that far, but theoretically:  You click the undock button -> EVE client sends a server request to undock and switch to the local space around the station -> gets intercepted by Aria, who first checks whether you've paid $0.99 for the undock permit.

Basically, they can easily add a prompt to purchase stuff for any click or action that they want to tax.  Apply SKIN to ship?  Pay first.  Rearrange your skillpoints in your head?  Pay first.  Without the need for CCP to specifically code all that payment functionality into EVE itself. 

Right now they have to specifically design Skill Extractors that we can purchase from the NEX store, and Skill Injectors, and the process of transforming an extractor item into an injector item.  Just so they can get paid for the feature.  With this Aria, they can just say "anyone can rearrange their skillpoints, just right-click on the skill and choose "untrain", points will be moved to the unallocated pool."  And just flag the "untrain" button to cause an Aria pop-up asking for your credit card.

It's easier for them to apply microtransactions to absolutely any thing they want, without any re-coding, and without the need for any items to be bought from the NEX store to facilitate payment.
ajax34i
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Reply #28 on: January 29, 2016, 06:26:44 PM

Video of someone extracting points and inserting points on the test server.

The interface for extraction is cumbersome:  you have to drag the skills, and the window closes itself when 1 extractor is produced, which results in quite a bit of clicking to do more than one.

On the other hand, the interface for injecting is really nice:  you can inject stacks of injectors at once, once the points are in the unallocated pool, you can apply them to your training queue with 1 click, wiping out months of training.  Or, you can right-click any skill individually and inject points.  It no longer requires pausing training and emptying the queue to allocate points.
Sir T
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Reply #29 on: February 05, 2016, 02:36:28 PM

https://twitter.com/EveOnline/status/695689455496249347

Quote
Tuesday will see Skill Trading come to #eveonline w/ Skill Extractors and Injectors hitting the markets for ISK


Be principled, but not too principled.
ajax34i
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Reply #30 on: February 05, 2016, 02:48:48 PM

Exactly what I expected.  $500 (approx. 4 years of subscription) to extract 50 million points (2.5 years to train normally).

Meester
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Reply #31 on: February 09, 2016, 01:39:58 AM

Exactly what I expected.  $500 (approx. 4 years of subscription) to extract 50 million points (2.5 years to train normally).



I'm glad I got one of those aurum tokens left though I will probably just keep it and wait until theres a sale for skill extractors or something.
Amarr HM
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Reply #32 on: February 09, 2016, 03:00:58 AM

How much can you buy/sell SP off the market for?

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Sir T
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Reply #33 on: February 09, 2016, 03:10:49 AM

The patch is today, so the price will be flying up due to marlet bot specialization.

Be principled, but not too principled.
Amarr HM
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Reply #34 on: February 09, 2016, 03:15:37 AM

Any projected figures? I would hazard a guess they will start off cheap due to market saturation, then rise when less people are stripping out their mining skills. So might be best to wait out the initial storm.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
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