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Author Topic: Oculus/Vive/PSVR  (Read 23612 times)
apocrypha
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Reply #245 on: October 20, 2016, 12:10:51 PM

Cyrrex, I do understand the requirements of 90 fps, I'd consider myself pretty well informed regarding VR. I wasn't advocating that anyone actually buy that 4k setup, but it's existence shows me that the market is at least healthy enough for the low-end competition to start.

That does affect my personal decisions. I can't afford a top-end VR system right now, neither can I afford to upgrade my PC to drive one sufficiently. If I had a PS4 I'd be seriously considering a PSVR, but the cost of buying both is too high, especially for a VR experience that wouldn't be as good as a good PC setup. But the entry of low-end PC VR systems is encouraging, makes me hope that the cost of good VR systems might start to come down sooner rather than later and saves me selling a kidney now.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Cyrrex
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Reply #246 on: October 21, 2016, 12:19:34 AM

Well like I said, hopefully it means someone is working on a 1080p set that can come in at a more reasonable price range.  The only thing really annoying me about that Chinese thing linked above is that it is 4K.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
apocrypha
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Reply #247 on: October 21, 2016, 12:59:30 AM

Yeah, with ya on the cheap. Also the comfort - the PSVR seems to be getting really good comments on that, hopefully the other players can learn from/copy their design :)

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Cyrrex
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Reply #248 on: November 01, 2016, 07:28:17 AM

Yeah, it should be said that the Vive is not what you would call comfortable.  You can improve things to a degree and you get more and more used to it, but it never gets close to perfect.

In related news, Steam released a new reprojection technology called Asynchronous Time Warp, which is sorta but not quite like a technology Oculus has been using for a while (theirs is Asynchronous SPACE Warp, which is fundamentally different somehow).  The impact is of releasing this tech is that it significantly reduces HMD related "judder" when you look around, effectively bridging the framerate gaps when you have settings turned up.  Net effect is that it seriously improves performance, much like a GPU upgrade.  It probably also unofficially lowers the minimum specs to a 960 or something, though I doubt Steam will announce it like Oculus did, basically because they hated making this stuff available in the first place (in their eyes, it promotes lazy dev work).  For me, it means I can turn up the supersampling even in more demanding games, making them look much nicer.  Elite: Dangerous looks way nicer.  Anyway, it was a big step, and there is more they can do if they get around to adapting the same stuff Oculus has.

And speaking of Elite, I just cannot get enough of that game in VR.  I fucking suck at it like you wouldn't believe, but I don't even care.  For all my brain can tell, I am flying around in space in goddamn spaceship.  Amazing beyond belief.  And now it doesn't look shitty at all.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Sky
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Reply #249 on: November 01, 2016, 10:32:39 AM

We'll know they've perfected things when we don't see you posting anymore.  why so serious?

Cyrrex
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Reply #250 on: November 04, 2016, 04:45:28 AM

Well, I can't take it to work with me, so I can always post from there!

Literally two minutes ago, I was playing something - a roomscale psychological horror game - and I just experienced something that made me scream "FUCK NO!", jumped backwards and tore off my headset, ran over to the PC and clicked the X up in the right corner of the program as fast as I could.  I am sitting here right now chuckling to myself and getting my heart rate back down, reminding myself that it was just a dumb game....but I don't think I can bring myself to go back into that game, and that after already having to take a two week break from it.  Scariest thing I have ever experienced in my life.  I really want to know how it ends, but I am now not sure I ever will. 

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Venkman
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Reply #251 on: November 04, 2016, 11:39:59 PM

I spent some time this week with folks in the space, and a chunk of that was not-jokingly talking about the new class of psychologicaly problems VR and AR are going to cause. Kinda spoke a bit in shorthand because we were all sci-fi geeks and had read some of the similar books that specualte on this kind of thing.

I was pretty impressed with the Oculus Touch controls. Lighter/smaller than the Vive ones, they have nice capacitive sensors on every buttons so even resting a finger on a button registers in VR space. As close to feeling like my hand was in VR as I've gotten aside from the demos with the Leap Motion kitbashed onto the front of a HMD, with the added benefit that I've got a prop that can do stuff. Used it to play Insomniac's Unspoken. Typically stationary spellcasting game, but with touch Touch, it allows for some fancy gesture based actions.

But I'm still most impressed by Hololens. By the time they get that thing down to $1K, either they'll have worked out the FOV issue, or we'll have lasers hitting our eyeballs from Magic Leap smiley
Cyrrex
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Reply #252 on: November 17, 2016, 05:41:24 AM

Subnautica has now been given the Vive treatment.  Not my kind of game, really, but damn damn damn it is pretty.  It was nice to look at in RR (regular reality), but man alive.

Also, apparently Google Earth has just come out in VR, and people are apparently blown the fuck away and saying it is the best thing since Jesus Toast.  Haven't tried it yet.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
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Reply #253 on: November 17, 2016, 11:42:19 AM

Wife said PSVR costs too much and I kinda agree.  I'll be giving it a try this weekend.  Any recommendations?  Like, which games go well with which substances?

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apocrypha
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Reply #254 on: November 17, 2016, 12:59:36 PM

Anything scary with acid.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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Reply #255 on: November 17, 2016, 02:06:18 PM

Anything scary with acid.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Never even thought that much about VR, but couple that with hallucinogens - now I am listening. Of course, it could just lead to a situation of the waves cancelling each other out.  why so serious?

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
apocrypha
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Reply #256 on: November 17, 2016, 03:54:21 PM


"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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Reply #257 on: November 18, 2016, 05:13:17 AM

Well, I can't take it to work with me, so I can always post from there!

Literally two minutes ago, I was playing something - a roomscale psychological horror game - and I just experienced something that made me scream "FUCK NO!", jumped backwards and tore off my headset, ran over to the PC and clicked the X up in the right corner of the program as fast as I could.  I am sitting here right now chuckling to myself and getting my heart rate back down, reminding myself that it was just a dumb game....but I don't think I can bring myself to go back into that game, and that after already having to take a two week break from it.  Scariest thing I have ever experienced in my life.  I really want to know how it ends, but I am now not sure I ever will. 
Out of curiosity, whats the name of the game you were playing that freaked you out?

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Cyrrex
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Reply #258 on: November 18, 2016, 09:35:55 AM

A Chair in a Room: Greenwater

I may be a bit of a VR pussy, it should be mentioned.  I still haven't worked up the nerve to go back there, and I really want to finish it.  Apparently there are scarier games, but that one gets the best reviews of the horror stuff.

Google Earth VR is cool as shit, by the way.  I actually had a bit...moment...standing in the crater of Mt. Rainier, looking up at the Milky Way.  You can zoom all the way down to 'human level' and go see stuff in the big cities.  The only downside is that it is all taken from aerial photos, so it doesn't have details from Street View.  You get 3D blobs of cars instead of actual cars, for example, when you get all the way down to the ground.  If they every incorporate Street View somehow (which is no easy thing)...man.  As it is, anything from a roughly birdseye view is freaking amazing.  Or you can zoom out and have the planet right in front of you as you hover in space.  Crazy stuff.

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Reply #259 on: November 18, 2016, 03:24:24 PM

So is there any consensus on what seems to be the best platform?  Vive seems to make the most sense right now because it has so many options, with a ton more down the road on steam.  Oculus and PSVR seem like they are potentially way more limited in what you can do with them based on platform restrictions, but maybe I'm missing something.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Sky
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Reply #260 on: November 18, 2016, 03:39:27 PM

If someone offered me any one of my choice for free, I'd take the Vive.

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Reply #261 on: November 18, 2016, 04:35:10 PM

Most things on the Steam Platform will also run on Oculus, now that the touch controllers are out.

General consensus seems to be that Oculus is a slightly better headset - It's more comfortable and clearer, though Vive has a bit better FoV.

Overall though, Oculus and Vive are on a pretty even field. PSVR is, from what I hear, a cute gimmick if you already have a PS.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #262 on: November 19, 2016, 01:18:35 AM

The Room Scale on the Vive is what puts it slightly ahead of the Oculus, assuming the Oculus Touch controllers are going to be on par.  Long term this will probably even out, but I'd still go with the Vive.  PSVR is to be avoided if you really want to get the full experience.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
apocrypha
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Reply #263 on: November 19, 2016, 12:03:50 PM

I've heard/read that the PSVR is the current clear winner in terms of HMD comfort.

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Reply #264 on: November 19, 2016, 12:57:16 PM

Ok, how does the hardware/software integration scene look currently?  Are people mostly developing games in a way that both a Vive and an Occulus (or any potential future set) can use them?  If everything has to be designed for a specific headset, its going to really limit the market.  I imagine that will be the case with the PSVR headset.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Cyrrex
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Reply #265 on: November 20, 2016, 03:55:19 AM

I've heard/read that the PSVR is the current clear winner in terms of HMD comfort.

Probably true, based on what I have read and the looks of the thing.  And PSVR will probably be cool for certain sit-down games, and I am all for things like this lowering the bar of entrance.  But if you want the "real" VR experience and money wasn't an object, you should only be looking at Oculus and Vive right now.

Ok, how does the hardware/software integration scene look currently?  Are people mostly developing games in a way that both a Vive and an Occulus (or any potential future set) can use them?  If everything has to be designed for a specific headset, its going to really limit the market.  I imagine that will be the case with the PSVR headset.

Right now, some Vive games simply do not work on Oculus due to design choices being made to leverage Room Scale.  I think that will be slowly changing now and become less of an issue, once people start getting Touch controllers and extra Oculus cameras that will mimic the Vive setup more closely.  Other than that, most things will technically work for both, at least once a dev or a modder makes it so.  An important factor to consider is that Oculus is trying the walled-garden approach, and some devs have downright boycotted them.  Others have taken fat payouts to delay releases for Vive until Oculus hardware is ready or to do exclusives.  Either way, and it shouldn't surprise anyone once you consider Facebook is behind it, Oculus is trying to dis-courage the open landscape.  Steam/Vive otoh are taking the exact opposite approach.  All things being equal, I would take a Vive on this fact alone.  Others might argue that it either doesn't matter much in the real world, or that the Oculus approach will eventually lead to bigger more polished titles. To each his own, I guess.  Also, Steam refunds is a thing.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #266 on: November 20, 2016, 04:18:49 AM

And now since it has been at least two days since I have gushed awkwardly over anything VR related.....

Doom 3 BFG has just released it's VR mod.  I can't quite tell if this is the same mod that has been promised for a while now, mentioned in the same breath as the Fallout 4 mod, but it seems it is the official one.  Even if you haven't played this game (I haven't, for one), you already know what it basically is.  The only thing important to mention about the VR conversion is that it is full FPS locomotion via the trackpad.  No teleporting here, so I am glad I have my VR legs at this point.

This is exactly what I hope to see more of.  Take solid older titles and convert them to VR.  I haven't gotten to any shooty parts yet, but already I can see that they've nailed it.  It runs great, controls great, and even with older textures it looks great.  They even did Room Scale.




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Reply #267 on: November 21, 2016, 09:31:12 AM

One point to make about "room scale" since it gets bandied around a lot in these discussions: it's basically Vive term that means "our setup can handle a bigger room". Prior to Touch coming out it mattered, because without touch there really wasn't any room scale being done at all for Oculus, and no one knew what they could handle. Now, it's just a buzzword meaning that the Vive setup can handle a bigger play are than the Oculus. Vive can setup for 11 x 11 and Oculus is expected to spec at a little smaller.

Problem I have is when I see people say Vive games are being designed for "room space" that Oculus can't handle. Hi end studios are not going to be putting out games that require a 10' x 10' open play area. What percentage of the public has the living space to devote an 11' x 11' play area? I don't have a room in my entire place that's 11' in two directions.

Will you get the odd specific puzzle game release designed to take advantage of that much space? Sure, but for the small audience that's designed for.

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Reply #268 on: November 21, 2016, 09:52:44 AM

The PSVR is pretty cool.  Turns out I'm one of those people that aren't disoriented by it.  I played a bunch of shit over the weekend.  The biggest negative is the screen resolution, but generally that's something that fades into the background for me.  It fits my head very well (light & comfortable), is very responsive, and just works.  We were playing in a seated position but standing is an option and provides better mobility (of course).  Naturally, a big plus for me is the absence of managing a Master Race Box.  Another plus is that the PS3 wands work just fine with the PS4.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
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Sky
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Reply #269 on: November 21, 2016, 11:47:06 AM

I don't have a room in my entire place that's 11' in two directions.
Outside of really old or high-density places, I think most people have room for a decent room scale setup. I have a very small house (950sq ft) and can push back my coffee table and have enough room for it (I often do for Rocksmith  Rock Out ).

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Reply #270 on: November 21, 2016, 11:49:46 PM

Vive will technically go up to about 16 x 16 or thereabouts, but it is true that Oculus will soon have something similar.  Early reports have been sorta indicating that the tracking and occlusion might be a little more problematic on the Oculus, but I would expect it will largely even out, especially if you invest in extra cameras.  I take your point that AAAs will probably not risk leveraging it anyway for the most part, or at least not requiring it.  Still, it is quite cool when it is well implemented.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #271 on: November 22, 2016, 03:59:11 AM

And just so this doesn't de-generate into a fanboy battle, let me be clear:  While I might prefer my Vive, I would be thrilled to have an Oculus, because I assume for the most part it delivers a similar experience.  I would even take a PSVR, and actually am really hoping that Sony helps push this stuff mainstream as a real consumer product.  Rising tides, and all that.

So on to more important stuff.  I can categorically say now that Doom 3 BFG VR is the FUCKING TITS.  I am blown away that they can take a crusty old game like this and make it so kick ass.  Closest thing to a killer app for VR. 

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Reply #272 on: November 22, 2016, 09:14:19 AM

How bad is the nausea with Doom? I understand its strictly standard controls.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #273 on: November 22, 2016, 10:25:52 AM

Well, as you know, you get more and more used to this stuff.  Had I played this back when I got my Vive, I think it would have been really tough.  I have played for probably 3 hours today, and I would say I have very mild nausea.  Nothing severe, and totally worth it.

It helps that they have made the locomotion speed variable.  The further towards the center of your trackpad you press, the slower you walk.  If you went full speed all the time, it would probably be an issue.  As it is, I would say it is the perfect implementation of locomotion.  Teleporting would hugely detract from it, IMO.  I understand that some games work well with teleporting and that it should be included as an option whenever possible....but not at the expense of regular locomotion, and certainly not for this game.




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apocrypha
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Reply #274 on: November 29, 2016, 05:00:47 AM

Just watched a short video about FlyInside, a mod/app that lets you fly FlightSimX etc in the Rift/Vive. I got a little bit motion sick just watching that video but I don't think I've ever wanted anything more in my gaming life.

All my life I've had regular vivid and intense dreams of flying and the thought of flying a microlite in VR gives me the biggest gaming stiffy imaginable.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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Reply #275 on: November 29, 2016, 10:36:26 AM

"Flying stuff" in general seems a natural fit.  Elite has already proved it for me, I just wish like the bejeesus that someone will make an X-Wing game at some point.

Also, Penumbra...you guys know it?  There is now apparently a good VR for it, so I picked it up for like 2 bucks on Steam sale.  I expect I will make it some ways in, only for my inner VR pussy to show up again.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
apocrypha
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Reply #276 on: November 29, 2016, 11:37:33 AM

"Flying stuff" in general seems a natural fit.  Elite has already proved it for me, I just wish like the bejeesus that someone will make an X-Wing game at some point.

Also, Penumbra...you guys know it?  There is now apparently a good VR for it, so I picked it up for like 2 bucks on Steam sale.  I expect I will make it some ways in, only for my inner VR pussy to show up again.

X-Wing vs TIE Fighter. Oh god yes please.

And Penumbra, yeah, haha good luck with that  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Cyrrex
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Reply #277 on: November 29, 2016, 11:45:35 AM

I know it is going to make me scream and shit my pants, but I figure it'll be worth it.

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Reply #278 on: November 29, 2016, 02:24:36 PM

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Reply #279 on: November 29, 2016, 02:45:42 PM

I want one.

He's wearing gloves.. awesome, for real awesome, for real awesome, for real

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