Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 16, 2017, 05:03:00 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
Donate! | Subscribe! | Shop: Amazon

***DONATION DRIVE 2 HAS BEGUN:
CLICK HERE TO BURN MONEY***
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  TV  |  Topic: Star Trek (CBS VOD 2017) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Star Trek (CBS VOD 2017)  (Read 12489 times)
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6502


Reply #105 on: May 21, 2017, 01:06:08 PM

New trailer out.  Embedded in an article that points out all the reasons for my feelings of "Meh."

https://arstechnica.com/the-multiverse/2017/05/first-star-trek-discovery-trailer-goes-where-many-treks-have-gone-before/

Pros:
Michelle Yeoh

Cons:
Redesigned Klingons
"My species is biologically determined ..."
Still CBS on demand service exclusive

The rest of it is Star Trek-ish stuff.  Trailer looks stylistically more nu-Trek, but we'll see how it shakes out, I guess.

Cons for fans of Trek:

A) It ignores that badges in the TOS era were unique to ships and stations and that the classic Starfleet badge was originally only for the Enterprise. That changed after Kirk's five year mission.
B) It is set in the time period of the original TOS pilot called the Cage. The uniforms in that time period did not look like a sort of Enterprise with silver piping like they do in this series. They looked like this:





Admittedly, these uniforms are kind of boring and blah. But they are what was worn in this time period. This tells me the showrunners have zero respect for the property. This should have been set after Voyager and advanced the timeline. If that were the case we could've ignored this kind of thing. "Oh, it's later in the timeline, guess they changed uniforms again and some weird shit happened to the Klingons. Wonder if they'll explain it?"

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 37992

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #106 on: May 21, 2017, 01:33:10 PM

This tells me the showrunners have zero respect for the property.

It is known.

Ghambit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5574


Reply #107 on: May 23, 2017, 01:03:33 PM

This tells me the showrunners have zero respect for the property.

It is known.

If you followed production, this was always the case.  As usual, the IP owners were at odds with the folk with the vision and the passion (and the fans).  This is why the original director left and a lot of cast bolted.  Now we have this Abrams prequel basically.

This is still all basically carryover from handing the franchise to Abrams though.  If you want to cast blame, cast it then/there.  You cannot have that much Hollywood money/power dipping their hands into ST and expect quality at the lower end. Low-level producers will fall into line to catch the scraps.

Not making "Captain Worf" when any idiot knew it would be gold?  Speaks volumes.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2823


Reply #108 on: May 23, 2017, 01:23:17 PM

What they need to do is a total reboot, put it on TV and collect the monies for 7 years.  Get rid of the bad films, the forcing of a contemporary series into the structure of the old timeline(s), and all that junk.  Thank Trekkies for their loyalty, but start anew with a new take on the original crew.


I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 3504


Reply #109 on: May 23, 2017, 03:31:27 PM

I see trek is breaking new ground by daring to feature tv's first wood-based lifeform captain
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 23487

2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


WWW
Reply #110 on: May 23, 2017, 05:47:24 PM

Do I need to say "It's dead, Jim." or can we just all agree this pile of horseshit is going to be best avoided.

TOS 4 lyfe

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27247

Badge Whore


Reply #111 on: May 23, 2017, 06:22:07 PM

Do I need to say "It's dead, Jim." or can we just all agree this pile of horseshit is going to be best avoided.

TOS 4 lyfe

It's dead and they're killing the IP with all this fuckery between this awful series and the reboot that isn't loved by hardcore fans.  This risks becoming Dick Tracy in terms of becoming an IP whose response is, "Oh yeah, I remember my Grandparents watched that."

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Ghambit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5574


Reply #112 on: May 23, 2017, 11:29:23 PM

At this point, all hope is lost.  I mean, look at Paramount's response to Renegades (which was the last original timeline 'movie' ever done).
Quote
In June 2016, the team announced that in response to new requirements on Star Trek fan films issued by CBS and Paramount Pictures, their upcoming film "Requiem" would remove all references to Star Trek. The series itself was renamed Renegades.

As I said, the Prime timeline is... prime now.  And that's that.  There will be no rebooted original timeline, nor will there be an original one, nor any offshoots.  The IP is no longer open and the direction mutinied back to Abrams' style.

A crapton of great Trek concepts have been pitched to Paramount, and they've killed all of them.  Including pitches by original cast members (Dorn included).  You're talking about a company that killed a full-sized Enterprise D being built in downtown Vegas as a casino-resort.  Because...  "they'd mess it up and make Trek look bad."  The real reasons were more about ego and current IP than anything else.

Can't believe Star Wars is a better, more open, and capable concept at this point.  It's almost like their roles have reversed and SW is the way richer, more rewarding 'verse to play in.  Iamsad.


"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8640


Reply #113 on: May 24, 2017, 06:06:59 AM

What I find kind of fascinating is that Paramount is so relatively indifferent to the IP. I suppose someone there thinks he's safeguarding it, but it really comes off as "eh, who cares, I guess we own that."
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27247

Badge Whore


Reply #114 on: May 24, 2017, 07:15:00 AM

 Ever underestimate the power of an executive with a bias. Especially in creative and production environments.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10597


Reply #115 on: May 24, 2017, 08:10:23 AM

Of they figure they have sucked as many Billions as it can out of this lemon and its time to junk it, to stop it interfering with other IPs.

"I think its pretty troubling when a backyard decoration comes out swinging harder against Nazis than the President of the United States." Stephen Colbert
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27247

Badge Whore


Reply #116 on: May 24, 2017, 11:35:53 AM

I'd buy that only if Paramount wasn't also trying to revive other garbage IPs like xXx and GI Joe to create 'movie-verses'. Those are the big thing everyone wants now that Disney is making bank on two of them.

They've done it with Transformers, are trying to do it with GI Joe and (rumored) M.A.S.K., Micronauts and Visionaires. The last 3 were BARELY passable IP in the 80's, nevermind trying to build a property around them now when everyone realizes they were just Toy-tie-in garbage trying to capitalize on the popularity of Transformers, GI Joe, MLP and Care Bears.

Star Trek HAD that cache. The only reason not to exploit it is bias or a complete disdain for the property.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8640


Reply #117 on: May 24, 2017, 05:52:26 PM

I really think the only explanation is a kind of irrational disdain for the property, yeah. Somebody up there literally is just sick of people who liked the show complaining when they make it much more about tits and explosions, because that's just about all they know how to do with their "verses".
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2823


Reply #118 on: May 24, 2017, 11:08:29 PM

While the theories usually imagine a nefarious intent, the reality is usually that someone without talent gets the wheel and they'Re too arrogant to get the assistance needed to do things right.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8640


Reply #119 on: May 25, 2017, 09:40:50 AM

Trek seems to have issues with that in general, to be honest. Even Roddenberry got pretty out of control after having had Trek adulation heaped on him for years; the showrunners during the TNG/DS9/Voyager era definitely developed some odd forms of possessiveness and obsession at times. There was a guy overseeing the licensed comics and books who was apparently a psycho control freak who drove many authors away. Maybe it's because it was available to be "owned", as opposed to Star Wars and other franchises that were highly creator-controlled or where the megabucks involved were several magnitudes greater.

I'm pretty convinced that Trek can make megabucks but very likely only if they really wipe the slate clean and try a completely new show that:

a) respects the basics: this is an optimistic and basically liberal-American future; some of the drama has to come from balancing the military, scientific and diplomatic responsibilities of a Starfleet vessel; at least feinting towards more thoughtful or issue-oriented narratives is important.
b) tackles the weaknesses: Trek has never done arcs and continuity well but has been at its best when it has done arcs and continuity, so learn how to do them; do some better world-building that shores up long-standing Trek weaknesses rather than makes fun of them or plays them for laughs (you can't beat Galaxy Quest in this respect, so don't even try); some more complex characterizations and character arcs are needed.

I think I have mentioned it before but I recall JMS back when he used to engage fans before and during the making of Babylon 5 saying that he'd pitched a Trek reboot at one point and been turned down flat that basically had the following elements:

1) ditched the universal translator and everything else that made first contact easy
2) put the ship at the center of it way, way out beyond easy resupply or support from the Federation, with even communication taking several days, so that the crew genuinely has to make decisions on its own
3) make the crew small and the ship vulnerable, so that they can't just breeze their way into dangerous situations
4) make the ship's mission to be fundamentally about first contact, and have 3-5 episode arcs that center on first contact with a new world, with a subplot/background arc that involves an entire region or area of space and its secrets
5) get rid of the transporter; all landing is via shuttle

This seems completely right to me.
Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15303

Trading Cotton for Chalupas in 2014!


Reply #120 on: May 25, 2017, 11:01:52 AM

Didn't Enterprise do some of that?

And then people hated it?

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2823


Reply #121 on: May 25, 2017, 02:49:38 PM

Enterprise did some of that, but it also did a lot of really horribly executed crap as well.  Sexy decontamination was not on the above list, for example.  The failure of one implementation of an idea doesn't mean there is no way to execute it and make something great.

I'd love to see a JMS Star Trek.  He has my faith.  Sense8 has been a bit disappointing to me, but all of his other stuff has been enjoyable for me.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8640


Reply #122 on: May 25, 2017, 04:55:53 PM

Enterprise didn't really have the guts to do all of that--and what people hated about it was not that notion of a less-masterful Federation. They hated the really dumb Time Cop element, the generic episodic scripts (people started kind of digging it when they moved to having a more high-stakes arc), and some of the really WTF fan service (see: radiation decontamination with erotic gel in underwear for starters). Like, I'm not against sexy Vulcan porn but let's just do sexy Vulcan porn, then, not try to mix it into an ostensibly non-porn show because you think a bunch of horny guys who never got out of mom's basement are watching.
Reg
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4566


Reply #123 on: May 25, 2017, 07:39:35 PM

I still have nightmares about the Space Nazi season. Their last season though, when they knew they were cancelled actually had some good episodes. I'm glad I didn't stop watching out of disgust.
Teleku
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9009

http://tinyurl.com/d89qk7g


Reply #124 on: May 26, 2017, 02:41:18 AM

Well I never once watched Enterprise, but now you guys have my interest perked.   awesome, for real

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8640


Reply #125 on: May 26, 2017, 05:36:47 AM

Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27247

Badge Whore


Reply #126 on: May 26, 2017, 06:45:49 AM

I will note here that Jolene Blalok has nudes out there that weren't stolen from a phone. You will, however, have to rummage through hundreds of bad photoshops.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 37992

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #127 on: May 26, 2017, 09:12:08 AM


I've never watched Enterprise. HOLY FUCK. That scene was awkward, uncomfortable and made no goddamn sense. There's no logical reason either of them would have any clothes on nor would they need to rub the gel on each other. Whoever wrote that and decided to keep it in as filmed should never work in television again.

jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2823


Reply #128 on: May 26, 2017, 10:31:46 AM

Enterprise was derailed from the start by executives forcing Un-Trek into Trek because they thought they knew better and didn't want to just give us a rehash of TNG, ToS, or anything else that had come before.  If you go back to the elements of the show that were true to the core of Star Trek - it was fine.  However, too many people gave up on the idiocy before they got elements right - and they never eliminated all the idiocy.

As it was some of our earliest Trek continuity, it is unfortunately locked in until we get a real reboot.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
luckton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5736


Reply #129 on: May 28, 2017, 05:49:21 AM

The last season of Enterprise was actually decent, IMO. The smaller, multiple story arcs that helped stage some of TNG stuff was refreshing from the time travel bullshit.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27247

Badge Whore


Reply #130 on: June 23, 2017, 11:32:36 AM

Paramount declares that this is, in fact, just reusing an IP 's name because creating a new brand is hard and tosses out the "most restrictive" rule about Star Trek; the "Roddenberry Box"
http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/23/star-trek-discovery-rules/?utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_facebook_entertainmentweekly
Quote
As part of Trek creator Gene Roddenberry’s utopian vision of the future (and one that Trek franchise executive producer Rick Berman carried on after Roddenberry’s death in 1991), writers on Trek shows were urged to avoid having Starfleet crew members in significant conflict with one another (unless a crew member is, say, possessed by an alien force), or from being shown in any seriously negative way.

Ignoring that part of this wasn't just Roddenberry's vision for the future, but that the type of conflicts they're trying to promote get you a court martial in a military. But hey, when has TV writing ever been about realism?

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2823


Reply #131 on: June 23, 2017, 12:09:37 PM

Enterprise was derailed from the start by executives forcing Un-Trek into Trek ...

Redux.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10333


Reply #132 on: June 23, 2017, 01:00:22 PM

Feel it us worth pointing out that in a world overrun by populist idiots, just redoing tNG would be awesome and relevant.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 37992

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #133 on: June 23, 2017, 01:03:29 PM

The ones who say that Rodenberry's box too severely hampered their ability to write compelling stories, I say, shut the fuck up. WRITE BETTER.

Ruvaldt
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2240

Goat Variations


Reply #134 on: June 23, 2017, 01:22:10 PM

Undiscovered Country definitely goes against Roddenberry's Box and it's a good movie.  Balance of Terror, in the original series, does as well, and is spectacular.  In fact, a large number of episodes Roddenberry was heavily involved in ditches it.  I mean...just watch Space Seed.  Lots of TNG, DS9 and Voyager episodes do it as well.  Roddenberry, and Star Trek in general, have always been extremely inconsistent.

Star Trek has changed with the times, and that's a good thing.  If we want to go full nerd and expect complete adherence to canon, technically there shouldn't be female captains in this new series at all.  We learn in the TOS episode Turnabout Intruder that women aren't allowed to be captains of starships in Starfleet.  Yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that aspect of deviation from canon.

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8640


Reply #135 on: June 26, 2017, 11:49:15 AM

Honestly, I think Star Trek at several points succeeded in spite of Roddenberry, not because of him.
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10597


Reply #136 on: June 26, 2017, 11:55:54 AM

Leonard Nimoy, in particular, never got on with Roddenbery and talks about it in his Autobiography. Some of the "Nimoy hates Spock" stuff actually came from Nimoy fighting with Roddenbery.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 06:33:21 PM by Sir T »

"I think its pretty troubling when a backyard decoration comes out swinging harder against Nazis than the President of the United States." Stephen Colbert
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2823


Reply #137 on: June 26, 2017, 12:48:47 PM

Roddenberry had a vision for his universe.  However, it wasn't his universe by the end of his life.  A lot of hands owned it.  However, when it was first released, nobody cared enough about it to get in his way and he was able to establish it over 3 seasons.  Since then, a few people that 'got' Roddenberry continued his vision (and while he was alive - with his heavy involvement).  Since then, Trek evolved into a money stick and everyone wants to make their name, and paycheck, by guiding it.  Most of them have no idea how to maintain the Roddenberry vision, much less how to evolve it into the present day.   

The best thing they can do is find someone that gets the Roddenberry's vision and can update it to the present day, ask them the best way to do it, and run with that for 5 years to re-establish the brand value (regardless of how profitable it is). Then they can start another round of breaking it down and making profit off of it and repeat the restoration in 15 years.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9019


Reply #138 on: July 24, 2017, 06:29:20 AM

Special J
Terracotta Army
Posts: 529


Reply #139 on: July 24, 2017, 08:54:52 AM

Star Trek has changed with the times, and that's a good thing.  If we want to go full nerd and expect complete adherence to canon, technically there shouldn't be female captains in this new series at all.  We learn in the TOS episode Turnabout Intruder that women aren't allowed to be captains of starships in Starfleet.  Yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that aspect of deviation from canon.

Yeah I'm really not that worried about a few inconsistencies


And yanked for some reason.  But I got your back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqBz8QsZNcQ

While I love a good space battle, I hope they're jacking up all the action and explosions for the trailer, and the series has more Stars and Trekking.  But I am a little more optimistic.

EDIT: wait a sec, Klingons have 4 nostrils now?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 09:37:54 AM by Special J »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  TV  |  Topic: Star Trek (CBS VOD 2017)  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC