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Topic: 7.0 Announcement @Gamescom 2015 (Read 77001 times)
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Rokal
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1652
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The difference between this expansion taking a long time to come out, and the last expansion taking a long time to come out, is that they actually cut things out of this expansion with the express purpose of getting the next expansion out sooner. From the last Blizzcon Q&A "Ultimately our focus is on reducing the gap in content, in terms of time between our final raid tier our our final patch, and the next expansion. Because we know that the time elapsed between Siege of Orgrimmar and Warlords of Draenor was unacceptably long. That was way, way too long - and we are all committed to reducing that gap. So whatever the right number of raid tiers is, to avoid having a huge gap like that, is what I think we're going to settle on. In my mind 6-7 months is a good amount of time for a large hefty raid tier, with 13 bosses [...]. 13 months - that's way too long." They went down to 2 raid tiers in this expansion, instead of the traditional 3, with the justification being getting the next expansion out faster. They never patched in Faralohn (NetherStorm). They released 2 "content patches" in WoD, 6.1 and 6.2, where the largest piece of content in 6.1 was a Selfie camera mode. A September 2016 release means another 14 month gap between the last content patch and the next expansion. They keep cutting and cutting (zones, raids, features) but never actually succeed in doing things faster, so it's a net loss for players. From what we know about Legion, they'll be cutting the inclusion of a new capitol City by re-using Dalaran, are potentially cutting a few features like challenge modes, and are giving us what in exchange for all the shortcuts? "A faster expansion next time, we realize the year-long gap between the last content patch of WoD and Legion was too long and we are taking steps to make sure we can deliver the next expansion faster". What is even going to be the excuse this time? They aren't rebuilding the old world (Cata). They aren't introducing a new starter zone or playing catch-up from Cata's massive content schedule issues (MoP). They aren't introducing new character models for all the old races, or trying to "train up lots of new hires" (WoD). By all accounts they should have actually had everything in place to deliver Legion in a shorter time-frame, but instead it's the same year + drought it always is. I'm pretty burnt out on the game at this point so I'm fine with the huge gap, but it's embarrassing how bad they are at delivering content in a reasonable timeframe.
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« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 10:53:47 AM by Rokal »
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Hutch
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1893
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What is even going to be the excuse this time?
They aren't going to make excuses, just like they aren't going to report on the sub numbers anymore. They're done trying. They've given up. WoW is in maintenance mode.
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Plant yourself like a tree Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning. The sun will shine on us again, brother
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Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269
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Removing challenge modes makes me extra salty. CMs were some of the last remaining bits of non-raid pve content that were interesting and fun. Unless I'm missing something, it was not particularly high-maintenance either -- just tweak the numbers from the heroic mode of the dungeon, make sure the scaling / timer tech works well... and then you don't have to touch them for the rest of the expansion, obvious sploits excepted.
They should've removed archeology instead. /sadf
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Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8978
~Living the Dream~
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Wait so what all has changed again?
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"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
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Goldenmean
Terracotta Army
Posts: 844
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Removing challenge modes makes me extra salty. CMs were some of the last remaining bits of non-raid pve content that were interesting and fun. Unless I'm missing something, it was not particularly high-maintenance either -- just tweak the numbers from the heroic mode of the dungeon, make sure the scaling / timer tech works well... and then you don't have to touch them for the rest of the expansion, obvious sploits excepted.
Challenge modes aren't gone. They've just changed to become suspiciously similar to Greater Rifts from Diablo 3. Honestly, the new system sounds more interesting to me if they don't manage to flub it somehow. http://blizzardwatch.com/2015/11/06/blizzcon-2015-legion-challenge-modes/
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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Won't be in at launch. Will be deliberately ignored or scaled-back IF it comes out.
Like Garrisons, the Dance Studio, Farahlon, Azshara Crater BG, Azjol-Nerub, "Path of the Titans", Arial Combat (like vehicles) in Wintergrasp, Abyssal Maw, Bladespire Citadel and Karabor cities.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269
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Removing challenge modes makes me extra salty. CMs were some of the last remaining bits of non-raid pve content that were interesting and fun. Unless I'm missing something, it was not particularly high-maintenance either -- just tweak the numbers from the heroic mode of the dungeon, make sure the scaling / timer tech works well... and then you don't have to touch them for the rest of the expansion, obvious sploits excepted.
Challenge modes aren't gone. They've just changed to become suspiciously similar to Greater Rifts from Diablo 3. Honestly, the new system sounds more interesting to me if they don't manage to flub it somehow. http://blizzardwatch.com/2015/11/06/blizzcon-2015-legion-challenge-modes/While that system is a good improvement for mythic dungeons that are both faceroll-simple if you outgear them and fairly difficult if you do them at the intended ilevel, I do NOT like the underlying design at all. It's just a worse version of fractals in GW2, since people doing level 1-20 fractals had basically the same level gear (for higher-level fractals you're expected to have infusions etc, but you get those while running fractals themselves). The gear scaling / cap was a crucial element of CMs, especially as it put mythic-geared raiders on the same level as non-raiders. Without a cap, you'll either be able to outgear these dungeons (thus removing the challenge of 'low-tier' keystones completely) by getting a ton of raid gear, or - and this is the most likely scenario for every character that's not a main in a raiding guild - struggle getting into pugs as nobody will be interested in running a dungeon with what is considered a 'low-level' keystone, plus without high-end gear you'll never be able to actually do the damage/healing/survival necessary to complete the challenge.
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Hutch
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1893
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Official Legion TrailerGod dammit. It's not fair that they still put out cinematics like this, after I've lost all faith in Blizzard to do better than a half-assed wet fart of an expansion.
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Plant yourself like a tree Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning. The sun will shine on us again, brother
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Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10131
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That looked awesome. I would go see that movie.
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"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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Well, no complaints of Horde bias there. If anything Sylvanas was a minor player. Where's Vol'jin.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10043
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Cool trailer. Game doesn't have factions anymore?
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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Evidently they're pulling the whole common enemy trope as they did in BC and WOTLK.
Given that playing-up the faction hate in Cata and continuing it in Panda didn't gain them anything but a need to generate 2x the content I'm not surprised. Now you have one or two faction specific quests and the rest are shared.
Half the content generation needed for players who don't give a shit about the faction hate in the first place and centralized gank-spaces for those who still are crazy enough to play on PvP servers.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10043
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Honestly they should just get rid of factions, let everyone play with everyone else.
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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But but but... muh Metzen lore!
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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Cool trailer. Game doesn't have factions anymore? Uden Bar ?
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Tannhauser
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4436
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WHAR NOBLE ORCS WHAR
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Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 14223
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Huh? There are humans in this game???
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Hic sunt dracones.
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Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8978
~Living the Dream~
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I'm proud to say I was never able to get a horde character to cap in any expansion, because I hated the shit out of their early questlines and zones even after Cata.
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"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
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kaid
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3113
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Honestly they should just get rid of factions, let everyone play with everyone else.
And given how many times we clearly can/have/ARE working side by side the horde the faction stuff should be handled like eq2 did. You can't go to enemy capitals but can group out in the wild fine and if you really want to switch allegience you can through a long quest line.
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Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8306
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Honestly they should just get rid of factions, let everyone play with everyone else.
And given how many times we clearly can/have/ARE working side by side the horde the faction stuff should be handled like eq2 did. You can't go to enemy capitals but can group out in the wild fine and if you really want to switch allegience you can through a long quest line. That was the original intent (way way way way way back when in a early beta), where you could have Orcs aligned with StormWind and Humans hanging out in Ogrimmar if they did the reputation effort. All the earliest screen shots of the game have mixed groups etc.
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and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8978
~Living the Dream~
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Cross-faction grouping is gonna show up eventually. Either because userbase decreases or as marquee selling point for an expansion.
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"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
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SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035
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Yeah, their faction system is actually kind of etertaining.
One of my favourite bits about that was that during the Scourge Invasion Event at the beginning of Wrath, when the whole Zombie plague thing was going down, you actually COULD trade / talk cross faction (sort of) as the "zombies" actually counted as a complete faction by themselves. There were no "horde" or "alliance" zombies, just Zombies, and all zombies could talk and trade to eachother just like anybody else in their faction.
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Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
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luckton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947
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The beta just went live. Given the four month timeline that Warlord had from friends and family alpha to launch, we're looking at a late March to mid-April launch date for Legion.
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590
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I think this is the first expac I'm passing on. Just no interest in logging into an empty world anymore and until they actually merge some servers like they should have a couple years ago that isn't gonna change.
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~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
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Xanthippe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4779
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I think this is the first expac I'm passing on. Just no interest in logging into an empty world anymore and until they actually merge some servers like they should have a couple years ago that isn't gonna change.
Didn't they already do that?
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luckton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947
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No. And don't expect it anytime soon. New expansions always brings people back; no sense in merging/opening/re-merging etc.
Footage from the beta looks good so far.
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Hutch
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1893
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I think this is the first expac I'm passing on. Just no interest in logging into an empty world anymore and until they actually merge some servers like they should have a couple years ago that isn't gonna change.
Didn't they already do that? Yes they did. They euphemized it as "Connected Realms". They started doing it in Pandaria, if not before. You'd still log into your server, but you could see players from the Connected Realm(s) in the world; you could tell which ones, because their server name would be appended to their toon name (iirc). edit: "connected", not "linked"
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« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 03:39:56 PM by Hutch »
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Plant yourself like a tree Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning. The sun will shine on us again, brother
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SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035
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No. And don't expect it anytime soon. New expansions always brings people back; no sense in merging/opening/re-merging etc.
Footage from the beta looks good so far.
Pretty sure they have had "connected" realms for quite a while now. They dont "merge" servers, but instead allow a sort of quazi phazing / instancing thing to happen with player numbers, so for example, if "Darkshore" the zone is very low pop with players, they start dynamicly shifting players from other realms on the battle group to all share a single "Darkshore" zone. This does go a decent bit to alleviating the sense of empty world, but doesn't really address the core problem with "dead" servers, that being that their economies are usually shit, since the connected realm thing does not connect auctionhouses, which are still realm specific.
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Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
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Hutch
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1893
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No. And don't expect it anytime soon. New expansions always brings people back; no sense in merging/opening/re-merging etc.
Footage from the beta looks good so far.
Pretty sure they have had "connected" realms for quite a while now. They dont "merge" servers, but instead allow a sort of quazi phazing / instancing thing to happen with player numbers, so for example, if "Darkshore" the zone is very low pop with players, they start dynamicly shifting players from other realms on the battle group to all share a single "Darkshore" zone. This does go a decent bit to alleviating the sense of empty world, but doesn't really address the core problem with "dead" servers, that being that their economies are usually shit, since the connected realm thing does not connect auctionhouses, which are still realm specific. You're describing the Cross Realm Zone "feature", where an empty zone gets filled up with players from multiple realms, which may or may not also be Connected realms. Connected realms share auction houses and let players from the connected realms form guilds together. More details here.
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Plant yourself like a tree Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning. The sun will shine on us again, brother
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Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590
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Yes but everything is still instanced and zoned to the point of never seeing the same people twice walking around. People joke about it when I say that is a big part of ruining the sense of world that the game promoted but the game lost a lot of stickiness for me and many others when it stopped feeling like you knew the people around you even in passing.
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~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
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Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10131
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That's the worst part of cross realm zones; I would rather see the same 8 people from my server than 100 internet randoms. See also cross realm bgs, dungeons, etc.
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"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
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Azazel
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I'd resub for the new expansion if you could fly day 1, provided they also let me fly in WoD without grinding out Loremaster. I liked the game well enough that I'd pop in for a month or so every expac until they started removing features.
I know I'm late to the party, but pretty much this.
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Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10043
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Looks like I got into the alpha with this.
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Hutch
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1893
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Did you forget to cancel your subscription?
Make sure the links in the email all have battle.net in the domain.
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Plant yourself like a tree Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning. The sun will shine on us again, brother
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Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10043
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Nah its legit.
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