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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  MMOG Discussion  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: 7.0 Announcement @Gamescom 2015 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: 7.0 Announcement @Gamescom 2015  (Read 12538 times)
Rokal
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Reply #70 on: November 06, 2015, 11:51:56 AM

The difference between this expansion taking a long time to come out, and the last expansion taking a long time to come out, is that they actually cut things out of this expansion with the express purpose of getting the next expansion out sooner.

From the last Blizzcon Q&A
Quote
"Ultimately our focus is on reducing the gap in content, in terms of time between our final raid tier our our final patch, and the next expansion. Because we know that the time elapsed between Siege of Orgrimmar and Warlords of Draenor was unacceptably long. That was way, way too long - and we are all committed to reducing that gap. So whatever the right number of raid tiers is, to avoid having a huge gap like that, is what I think we're going to settle on. In my mind 6-7 months is a good amount of time for a large hefty raid tier, with 13 bosses [...]. 13 months - that's way too long."

They went down to 2 raid tiers in this expansion, instead of the traditional 3, with the justification being getting the next expansion out faster. They never patched in Faralohn (NetherStorm). They released 2 "content patches" in WoD, 6.1 and 6.2, where the largest piece of content in 6.1 was a Selfie camera mode.

A September 2016 release means another 14 month gap between the last content patch and the next expansion. They keep cutting and cutting (zones, raids, features) but never actually succeed in doing things faster, so it's a net loss for players. From what we know about Legion, they'll be cutting the inclusion of a new capitol City by re-using Dalaran, are potentially cutting a few features like challenge modes, and are giving us what in exchange for all the shortcuts? "A faster expansion next time, we realize the year-long gap between the last content patch of WoD and Legion was too long and we are taking steps to make sure we can deliver the next expansion faster".

What is even going to be the excuse this time? They aren't rebuilding the old world (Cata). They aren't introducing a new starter zone or playing catch-up from Cata's massive content schedule issues (MoP). They aren't introducing new character models for all the old races, or trying to "train up lots of new hires" (WoD). By all accounts they should have actually had everything in place to deliver Legion in a shorter time-frame, but instead it's the same year + drought it always is.

I'm pretty burnt out on the game at this point so I'm fine with the huge gap, but it's embarrassing how bad they are at delivering content in a reasonable timeframe.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 11:53:47 AM by Rokal »
Hutch
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Reply #71 on: November 06, 2015, 01:07:21 PM

What is even going to be the excuse this time?

They aren't going to make excuses, just like they aren't going to report on the sub numbers anymore.

They're done trying. They've given up. WoW is in maintenance mode.

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Zetor
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Reply #72 on: November 06, 2015, 02:12:43 PM

Removing challenge modes makes me extra salty. CMs were some of the last remaining bits of non-raid pve content that were interesting and fun. Unless I'm missing something, it was not particularly high-maintenance either -- just tweak the numbers from the heroic mode of the dungeon, make sure the scaling / timer tech works well... and then you don't have to touch them for the rest of the expansion, obvious sploits excepted.

They should've removed archeology instead. /sadf

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Reply #73 on: November 06, 2015, 07:56:57 PM

Wait so what all has changed again?

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Goldenmean
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Reply #74 on: November 06, 2015, 08:26:40 PM

Removing challenge modes makes me extra salty. CMs were some of the last remaining bits of non-raid pve content that were interesting and fun. Unless I'm missing something, it was not particularly high-maintenance either -- just tweak the numbers from the heroic mode of the dungeon, make sure the scaling / timer tech works well... and then you don't have to touch them for the rest of the expansion, obvious sploits excepted.

Challenge modes aren't gone. They've just changed to become suspiciously similar to Greater Rifts from Diablo 3. Honestly, the new system sounds more interesting to me if they don't manage to flub it somehow.

http://blizzardwatch.com/2015/11/06/blizzcon-2015-legion-challenge-modes/
Merusk
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Reply #75 on: November 06, 2015, 09:32:41 PM

Won't be in at launch. Will be deliberately ignored or scaled-back IF it comes out.

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Reply #76 on: November 06, 2015, 10:12:56 PM

Removing challenge modes makes me extra salty. CMs were some of the last remaining bits of non-raid pve content that were interesting and fun. Unless I'm missing something, it was not particularly high-maintenance either -- just tweak the numbers from the heroic mode of the dungeon, make sure the scaling / timer tech works well... and then you don't have to touch them for the rest of the expansion, obvious sploits excepted.

Challenge modes aren't gone. They've just changed to become suspiciously similar to Greater Rifts from Diablo 3. Honestly, the new system sounds more interesting to me if they don't manage to flub it somehow.

http://blizzardwatch.com/2015/11/06/blizzcon-2015-legion-challenge-modes/
While that system is a good improvement for mythic dungeons that are both faceroll-simple if you outgear them and fairly difficult if you do them at the intended ilevel, I do NOT like the underlying design at all. It's just a worse version of fractals in GW2, since people doing level 1-20 fractals had basically the same level gear (for higher-level fractals you're expected to have infusions etc, but you get those while running fractals themselves).

The gear scaling / cap was a crucial element of CMs, especially as it put mythic-geared raiders on the same level as non-raiders. Without a cap, you'll either be able to outgear these dungeons (thus removing the challenge of 'low-tier' keystones completely) by getting a ton of raid gear, or - and this is the most likely scenario for every character that's not a main in a raiding guild - struggle getting into pugs as nobody will be interested in running a dungeon with what is considered a 'low-level' keystone, plus without high-end gear you'll never be able to actually do the damage/healing/survival necessary to complete the challenge.

Hutch
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Reply #77 on: November 09, 2015, 04:54:01 PM

Official Legion Trailer

God dammit. It's not fair that they still put out cinematics like this, after I've lost all faith in Blizzard to do better than a half-assed wet fart of an expansion.

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Reply #78 on: November 09, 2015, 05:22:40 PM

That looked awesome. I would go see that movie. why so serious?

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Merusk
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Reply #79 on: November 09, 2015, 05:28:03 PM

Well, no complaints of Horde bias there. If anything Sylvanas was a minor player. Where's Vol'jin.

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Draegan
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Reply #80 on: November 11, 2015, 09:17:23 AM

Cool trailer. Game doesn't have factions anymore?  awesome, for real
Merusk
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Reply #81 on: November 11, 2015, 09:28:12 AM

Evidently they're pulling the whole common enemy trope as they did in BC and WOTLK.

Given that playing-up the faction hate in Cata and continuing it in Panda didn't gain them anything but a need to generate 2x the content I'm not surprised. Now you have one or two faction specific quests and the rest are shared.

Half the content generation needed for players who don't give a shit about the faction hate in the first place and centralized gank-spaces for those who still are crazy enough to play on PvP servers.

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Draegan
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Reply #82 on: November 11, 2015, 10:38:04 AM

Honestly they should just get rid of factions, let everyone play with everyone else.
Merusk
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Reply #83 on: November 11, 2015, 10:48:13 AM

But but but... muh Metzen lore!

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Ironwood
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Reply #84 on: November 11, 2015, 02:44:38 PM

Cool trailer. Game doesn't have factions anymore?  awesome, for real

Uden Bar ?

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Tannhauser
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Reply #85 on: November 11, 2015, 04:15:58 PM

WHAR NOBLE ORCS WHAR

Sir T
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Reply #86 on: November 16, 2015, 04:42:52 AM

Huh? There are humans in this game???

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Reply #87 on: November 16, 2015, 04:56:19 AM

I'm proud to say I was never able to get a horde character to cap in any expansion, because I hated the shit out of their early questlines and zones even after Cata.

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kaid
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Reply #88 on: November 17, 2015, 08:34:25 AM

Honestly they should just get rid of factions, let everyone play with everyone else.


And given how many times we clearly can/have/ARE working side by side the horde the faction stuff should be handled like eq2 did. You can't go to enemy capitals but can group out in the wild fine and if you really want to switch allegience you can through a long quest line.
Fordel
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Reply #89 on: November 17, 2015, 10:28:19 AM

Honestly they should just get rid of factions, let everyone play with everyone else.


And given how many times we clearly can/have/ARE working side by side the horde the faction stuff should be handled like eq2 did. You can't go to enemy capitals but can group out in the wild fine and if you really want to switch allegience you can through a long quest line.


That was the original intent (way way way way way back when in a early beta), where you could have Orcs aligned with StormWind and Humans hanging out in Ogrimmar if they did the reputation effort. All the earliest screen shots of the game have mixed groups etc.

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Reply #90 on: November 17, 2015, 12:16:49 PM

Cross-faction grouping is gonna show up eventually. Either because userbase decreases or as marquee selling point for an expansion.

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SurfD
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Reply #91 on: November 18, 2015, 12:15:57 AM

Yeah, their faction system is actually kind of etertaining.

One of my favourite bits about that was that during the Scourge Invasion Event at the beginning of Wrath, when the  whole Zombie plague thing was going down, you actually COULD trade / talk cross faction (sort of) as the "zombies" actually counted as a complete faction by themselves.  There were no "horde" or "alliance" zombies, just Zombies, and all zombies could talk and trade to eachother just like anybody else in their faction.

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luckton
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Reply #92 on: November 20, 2015, 05:12:12 AM

The beta just went live. Given the four month timeline that Warlord had from friends and family alpha to launch, we're looking at a late March to mid-April launch date for Legion.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #93 on: November 20, 2015, 05:46:58 AM

I think this is the first expac I'm passing on. Just no interest in logging into an empty world anymore and until they actually merge some servers like they should have a couple years ago that isn't gonna change.

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Xanthippe
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Reply #94 on: November 29, 2015, 02:28:20 PM

I think this is the first expac I'm passing on. Just no interest in logging into an empty world anymore and until they actually merge some servers like they should have a couple years ago that isn't gonna change.

Didn't they already do that?
luckton
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Reply #95 on: November 29, 2015, 02:37:22 PM

No. And don't expect it anytime soon. New expansions always brings people back; no sense in merging/opening/re-merging etc.

Footage from the beta looks good so far.

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Hutch
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Reply #96 on: November 29, 2015, 04:38:01 PM

I think this is the first expac I'm passing on. Just no interest in logging into an empty world anymore and until they actually merge some servers like they should have a couple years ago that isn't gonna change.

Didn't they already do that?

Yes they did. They euphemized it as "Connected Realms". They started doing it in Pandaria, if not before.

You'd still log into your server, but you could see players from the Connected Realm(s) in the world; you could tell which ones, because their server name would be appended to their toon name (iirc).

edit: "connected", not "linked"
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 04:39:56 PM by Hutch »

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SurfD
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Reply #97 on: November 30, 2015, 12:47:19 AM

No. And don't expect it anytime soon. New expansions always brings people back; no sense in merging/opening/re-merging etc.

Footage from the beta looks good so far.
Pretty sure they have had "connected" realms for quite a while now.  They dont "merge" servers, but instead allow a sort of quazi phazing / instancing thing to happen with player numbers, so for example, if "Darkshore" the zone is very low pop with players, they start dynamicly shifting players from other realms on the battle group to all share a single "Darkshore" zone.   This does go a decent bit to alleviating the sense of empty world,  but doesn't really address the core problem with "dead" servers, that being that their economies are usually shit, since the connected realm thing does not connect auctionhouses, which are still  realm specific.

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Hutch
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Reply #98 on: November 30, 2015, 06:49:44 AM

No. And don't expect it anytime soon. New expansions always brings people back; no sense in merging/opening/re-merging etc.

Footage from the beta looks good so far.
Pretty sure they have had "connected" realms for quite a while now.  They dont "merge" servers, but instead allow a sort of quazi phazing / instancing thing to happen with player numbers, so for example, if "Darkshore" the zone is very low pop with players, they start dynamicly shifting players from other realms on the battle group to all share a single "Darkshore" zone.   This does go a decent bit to alleviating the sense of empty world,  but doesn't really address the core problem with "dead" servers, that being that their economies are usually shit, since the connected realm thing does not connect auctionhouses, which are still  realm specific.

You're describing the Cross Realm Zone "feature", where an empty zone gets filled up with players from multiple realms, which may or may not also be Connected realms.

Connected realms share auction houses and let players from the connected realms form guilds together. More details here.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #99 on: November 30, 2015, 07:21:10 AM

Yes but everything is still instanced and zoned to the point of never seeing the same people twice walking around.  People joke about it when I say that is a big part of ruining the sense of world that the game promoted but the game lost a lot of stickiness for me and many others when it stopped feeling like you knew the people around you even in passing.

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Rendakor
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Reply #100 on: November 30, 2015, 07:55:44 AM

That's the worst part of cross realm zones; I would rather see the same 8 people from my server than 100 internet randoms. See also cross realm bgs, dungeons, etc.

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Azazel
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Reply #101 on: December 02, 2015, 05:02:27 AM

I'd resub for the new expansion if you could fly day 1, provided they also let me fly in WoD without grinding out Loremaster. I liked the game well enough that I'd pop in for a month or so every expac until they started removing features.

I know I'm late to the party, but pretty much this.

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Draegan
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Reply #102 on: December 03, 2015, 04:48:37 PM

Looks like I got into the alpha with this.
Hutch
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Reply #103 on: December 03, 2015, 05:31:49 PM

Did you forget to cancel your subscription?

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Draegan
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Reply #104 on: December 03, 2015, 07:28:46 PM

Nah its legit.
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