Vegas. WMS Iron Man. Slot Machine.

[Sophismata]

Oh god, that fucking wheel.  Other than keno that's the most retarded game ever.  Treasure Island had one of those wheel games set up at an automated table.  I've never understood why people play the digital versions of table games when they could play the real thing like five feet away, but whatever.  Anyways, two guys were at the table, and one of them was flipping out while it took his money.  Cursing, hitting the table, clearly having a bad time of it.  The guy next to him was probably at least buzzed, because he was just chilling there with a drink betting seemingly at random as far as I could tell and just didn't seem to give a fuck whether he was winning or losing.  In neither case did either of them look to be having any sort of good time.

The way we encouraged digital was to lower the minimums. It's been pretty popular amongst the low-money Chinese gamblers, which was win-win for us as it's cheaper to run than a table with a croupier. You can also get fantastic data as they will always be logged in with a trackable ID, allowing gains and losses per player, per table and per game to be measured very accurately.

There is a huge segment of the population that seem to actively dislike human interaction in their table games, along with those themes of paranoia and dealer vs player mentality.

Sad thing about the wheel is that not only is it dead boring, the odds are some of the worst in the casino (well, for our wheel anyway).

[Abagadro]

House advantage on 3-card even without stupid side bets is over 3 percent.  That's not ridiculous but it is worse than single 0 roulette (which you can't find in the U.S. anyways, but just for comparison).  If you want to have fun gambling without getting completely fucked find a low-min craps table and go pass/come with odds all night long. 

On the 95 percent return on machines, remember that it is 95 percent return on total bets, not your buy-in/bankroll.  That 100 bucks you put in will be run through as bets after 20 spins on that type of machine. The machine will give you back 95 percent, so you will have (statistically) 95 bucks. After the next 19 spins you will have (statistically) 90 bucks. Rinse, repeat until you are broke. The machine has still returned 95 percent of your wagers.

To show you how a casino is a no-win deal, here is a back-off when they figure out you have an actual shot at winning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HjwzJyCQlQ

[Tairnyn]

Fed this machine $20 dollars upon seeing it at a local casino, remembering this thread. Maybe I missed out on some sort of super awesome bonus mode stuff or my expectations were falsely inflated, but it was underwhelming.

[KallDrexx]

Apparently legislation was just signed allowing for skill based games in casinos.  Not sure if any real skilled games will be developed and put in casinos (since you know, when you have skill at counting cards at BJ they usher you away) but could be interesting to see.

[WayAbvPar]

It won't matter. No casino in the world will offer a game that isn't rigged in its favor. Unless they make it PvP and rake it, like poker. Still, might be a fun way to lose money 

[Merusk]

Carnival/ theme park games like "throw the ring on a bottle" are "games of skill."  How many guys do you walking around with those giant stuffed animals when at 6-flags/ Ceder Point owned parks?

Yeah.

[schild]

It's possible skill-based refers to Japanese pachislo machines.

[Merusk]

Woo, more slots. 

If it were a Pachinko machine, THEN you'd have my attention.  Dad brought one home from Vietnam and I played it for hours as a kid.

[Salamok]

15 years ago, when I was in Vegas, I won $60 on nickel slots.

It was a nightmare.

Funny for literally the first 3 seconds.

I don't think $60 is enough to entice me to carry away and change 1200 nickels.  I'd have just fled the scene of the crime.

17 years ago I crawled away from Vegas (after living there for 6 years) with my tail between my legs.  One of the many things I learned while there, other than Vegas is a bad place to live for anyone who gets addicted to games, is that the coin counting and sorting capabilities of the average coin booth in a Vegas Casino works like it was designed by like the original six sigma black belt efficiency expert.  Once you are done gathering and hauling your 30 pounds of nickles to the nearest booth it will be converted to folding money in no time flat.

Apparently legislation was just signed allowing for skill based games in casinos.  Not sure if any real skilled games will be developed and put in casinos (since you know, when you have skill at counting cards at BJ they usher you away) but could be interesting to see.

I worked for several gaming tech companies and I am fairly sure that I recall skill being a mandatory component for gaming to be legal in many regions of the world (IIRC Europe). 

[eldaec]

Apparently legislation was just signed allowing for skill based games in casinos.  Not sure if any real skilled games will be developed and put in casinos (since you know, when you have skill at counting cards at BJ they usher you away) but could be interesting to see.

Slot machines go twitch?

In reality I would think all this means is more trivia based slots. You see them already in any place where a skill based component is required to dodge gambling restrictions. They maintain the intended payout rates by adjusting the difficulty of question.

[Kitsune]

House advantage on 3-card even without stupid side bets is over 3 percent.  That's not ridiculous but it is worse than single 0 roulette (which you can't find in the U.S. anyways, but just for comparison).  If you want to have fun gambling without getting completely fucked find a low-min craps table and go pass/come with odds all night long. 

On the 95 percent return on machines, remember that it is 95 percent return on total bets, not your buy-in/bankroll.  That 100 bucks you put in will be run through as bets after 20 spins on that type of machine. The machine will give you back 95 percent, so you will have (statistically) 95 bucks. After the next 19 spins you will have (statistically) 90 bucks. Rinse, repeat until you are broke. The machine has still returned 95 percent of your wagers.

To show you how a casino is a no-win deal, here is a back-off when they figure out you have an actual shot at winning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HjwzJyCQlQ

Vegas exists to take your money.  They don't have all those pretty buildings covered in lights because they're giving the money away.  I treat the bankroll as my entertainment expense and anticipate losing it, because gambling in anticipation of winning is for suckers.  I've actually left Vegas ahead more often than behind, but most times I pretty much just break even and consider myself fortunate in that.  If you're careful in how you flirt with the casinos you can lose a fairly insignificant amount of money and in exchange walk away with free drinks, food, and rooms.  If you aren't careful, they'll have all of your money within twenty four hours.  It's just how things go.

If I'm just churning money to snag drinks and build up points to comps, I'll poke video poker machines until I find one that isn't trying to just take my money and then camp on it for an hour or until it goes cold.  As long as you're playing at the right payout and don't make bad plays, you can get the house edge to somewhere around one percent if I'm recalling right.  I'd be unpopular at craps, because I'd have no compunctions about betting on don't pass for the better edge.

[Sophismata]

House advantage on 3-card even without stupid side bets is over 3 percent.  That's not ridiculous but it is worse than single 0 roulette (which you can't find in the U.S. anyways, but just for comparison).  If you want to have fun gambling without getting completely fucked find a low-min craps table and go pass/come with odds all night long. 

On the 95 percent return on machines, remember that it is 95 percent return on total bets, not your buy-in/bankroll.  That 100 bucks you put in will be run through as bets after 20 spins on that type of machine. The machine will give you back 95 percent, so you will have (statistically) 95 bucks. After the next 19 spins you will have (statistically) 90 bucks. Rinse, repeat until you are broke. The machine has still returned 95 percent of your wagers.

To show you how a casino is a no-win deal, here is a back-off when they figure out you have an actual shot at winning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HjwzJyCQlQ

Vegas exists to take your money.  They don't have all those pretty buildings covered in lights because they're giving the money away.  I treat the bankroll as my entertainment expense and anticipate losing it, because gambling in anticipation of winning is for suckers.  I've actually left Vegas ahead more often than behind, but most times I pretty much just break even and consider myself fortunate in that.  If you're careful in how you flirt with the casinos you can lose a fairly insignificant amount of money and in exchange walk away with free drinks, food, and rooms.  If you aren't careful, they'll have all of your money within twenty four hours.  It's just how things go.

If I'm just churning money to snag drinks and build up points to comps, I'll poke video poker machines until I find one that isn't trying to just take my money and then camp on it for an hour or until it goes cold.  As long as you're playing at the right payout and don't make bad plays, you can get the house edge to somewhere around one percent if I'm recalling right.  I'd be unpopular at craps, because I'd have no compunctions about betting on don't pass for the better edge.

Don't pass has the same edge as pass, actually. Absolutely agree with you on everything else (save for the fact I don't touch the pokies at all, I find them boring).

[WayAbvPar]

There used to be some progressive video poker machines that, when played optimally, actually had a player advantage when the jackpot was big enough. I am sure most of them are gone now, or hidden away in the shitty locals hangout casinos. If they still exist, they probably $5+ per spin machines only. Can't have the plebes winning any money.

[Abagadro]

Don't pass has the same edge as pass, actually. Absolutely agree with you on everything else (save for the fact I don't touch the pokies at all, I find them boring).

Don't pass actually does have a slighter better edge.  It's very small (.05 percent) and the only time you are winning is when the table is losing so you look like a schmuck. And when you are losing the table is usually having a blast making it that much worse, so the small statistical edge just isn't worth it to me (plus laying odds requires a bigger bankroll).

[Abagadro]

There used to be some progressive video poker machines that, when played optimally, actually had a player advantage when the jackpot was big enough. I am sure most of them are gone now, or hidden away in the shitty locals hangout casinos. If they still exist, they probably $5+ per spin machines only. Can't have the plebes winning any money.

It's virtually impossible to even find a full pay 9/6 machine these days.

[Kitsune]

It's virtually impossible to even find a full pay 9/6 machine these days.

The D on Fremont has like three of them on the second floor by the escalators.  It actually has a big sign over them advertising that they have a greater than 100% payout.  What it doesn't mention is that the player must make the perfect play on every hand to get that outcome, and most random people wandering around Vegas haven't read up on what those optimal plays are.  I'm sure they're not losing money on those machines at the end of the day.

[Salamok]

There used to be some progressive video poker machines that, when played optimally, actually had a player advantage when the jackpot was big enough. I am sure most of them are gone now, or hidden away in the shitty locals hangout casinos. If they still exist, they probably $5+ per spin machines only. Can't have the plebes winning any money.

There were linked progressive reel machines where this was the case as well.  Used to see teams come in and tie up every linked progressive until the jackpot was hit (yes 24x7 until they hit it). I was a peon though so for all I know these "professional" slot players just worked for the dirt bag casino owner.

[Furiously]

Last time I was in Vegas I got to watch my father win about 400 bucks at video poker while making absolutely every wrong move. (He'd toss away a winning hand, but get dealt cards that gave him a BETTER winning hand. He basically flipped statistics the bird for about 45 minutes).

Admittedly my dad was a wee bit drunk at the time. One of the few times I've seen him that way. The waitress apparently thought it was the funniest damn thing she'd seen that day, a cheerfully drunk man somehow winning as his kids tried desperately to keep him from tossing away winning hands.

If it was a networked one, that is the strategy. You only go for royal straight flush basically.

[Merusk]

I love bumping dead threads.

Was just in Vegas, staying at the Venetian for a conference. Since Schild was so keen on this machine I made a point to hunt it down. They've scaled back to only one machine on the floor, in a back corner.  Well worth the playing time. So many little effects and interactive parts beyond just the button-pushing. I see the appeal now as I lost a good two hours playing just this game. (Turned $8.00 into $60.00 though so that's a win.)

[schild]

One at the Venetian but two at the Palazzo unless that's changed in 2 months.

The Palazzo, somehow, has a worse return across nearly the entire floor though and I never gamble there anymore.

Also I'm in the Northeast now, so if anyone ever wants to hit up Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods or Twin River, uhhh PM me?

[Merusk]

It's changed or there's a corner of the Venetian I missed. We looked at every machine there and not one.  The lone double-stack unit in the Palazzo was on the opposite wall of CarneVino, near the back entrance.  Same wall as the bank of fishing slots.

[schild]

It's changed or there's a corner of the Venetian I missed. We looked at every machine there and not one.  The lone double-stack unit in the Palazzo was on the opposite wall of CarneVino, near the back entrance.  Same wall as the bank of fishing slots.

Yea, between Batman and  fishing horseshit.

The Venetian one used to be on the walkway along the right side of the main casinos left walkway coming off the shoppes. You know, now that I think about it, I didn't see it on my last trip.

[Teleku]

Also I'm in the Northeast now, so if anyone ever wants to hit up Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods or Twin River, uhhh PM me?

Like, as in, you finally escaped the hell hole that is Texas, or your just visiting at this moment?

[schild]

Also I'm in the Northeast now, so if anyone ever wants to hit up Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods or Twin River, uhhh PM me?

Like, as in, you finally escaped the hell hole that is Texas, or your just visiting at this moment?

I love and miss Austin.

I moved to Rhode Island for my wife's work since I can work from anywhere.

Offices are for assholes.

[Draegan]

I was in Providence Rhode Island once for a national sales meeting. One of the salesman got shot the first night inside the hotel.

[schild]

That's some shitty luck. I lived on the cusp of PG County, MD for 5 years and never got a punch thrown at me.