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Topic: Yet another NWN successor enters the fray - Sword Coast Legends (Read 30062 times)
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Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848
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Carly'sCRPGs have always been about combat then story. The stories were also always shit. It's been that way since at least Eye of The Beholder and the few Gold Box games I tried did nothing to change that notion. Take off the rose colored glasses.
Stand-outs like Torment and Bloodlines are unfortunately the exception. As much as I do have nostalgia for a wide-range of CRPGs, most of that was being young and able to fill in the gaps with my own imagination.
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Hahahaha! I'm really good at this!
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Xilren's Twin
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Carly'sCRPGs have always been about combat then story. The stories were also always shit. It's been that way since at least Eye of The Beholder and the few Gold Box games I tried did nothing to change that notion. Take off the rose colored glasses.
Stand-outs like Torment and Bloodlines are unfortunately the exception. As much as I do have nostalgia for a wide-range of CRPGs, most of that was being young and able to fill in the gaps with my own imagination. The exception is NWN of course. Which is what i want an updated version of...
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« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 02:38:49 PM by Xilren's Twin »
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"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
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Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848
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<nod>
In many ways I view NWN as a toolset rather than a single game, too.
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Hahahaha! I'm really good at this!
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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Undrentide et al showed what could be done with that motherfucker.
Yeah.
Shame about it. Like most, if the community doesn't get easy access, it doesn't matter.
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596
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The NWN Modding community was absolutely brilliant. (I know, I was part of it ). But seriously, I did work on some PW Story servers and it was an absolutely amazing toolset to work with. Furthermore, the inclusion of a DM client was great, but the community really made the DM tools that made doing truly amazing, creative, things possible on the fly while running a campaign. NWN 2's toolset just didn't match up, although it wasn't terrible and it was far more inscrutable to modders. I've said it before, but NWN PW Story servers are pretty much a prototype for my ideal MMO in many ways.
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Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280
Auto Assault Affectionado
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NWN's live DM tools were still insufficient IMO (not saying anything bad about the modding tools here). None of these games are ever going to solve the fundamental problem of trying to react to 4 players who are acting in real time, not until they ditch the real time element.
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT. Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596
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I played a great campaign with a guy who ran multiple campaigns. He would recruit players from one to help him DM the other (since the DM client did support multiple DMs in one game). If you have 2-3 DMs for a group of 4-6 players it becomes more manageable.
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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So this is out in 6 days. Anyone got any inside scoop on it ?
I have, of course, seen all the videos and twitches and whatnot. But will it be GOOD ?
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Tannhauser
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4436
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Just pre-ordered it. No scoop to give. The forum warriors beat their chests and cry out that the editor is limited to making dungeon crawls and lack a lot of functionality. Which is all 'eh' to me. None of my friends are interested in it, so I'll just play the campaign and mess around with the editor. Maybe they'll improve the editing tools down the line.
I just want to try out this game with the 5e DND ruleset (roughly).
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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Hmmm, not sure they're right there tho; I've seen the editor make a lot of differing scenarios, city, above ground, that kinda thing.
The combat 'look' bothers me though - seems to have more in common with D&D on the PlayStation than on the PC, but hey ho.
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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amiable
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2126
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I got it and have been playing single player over the weekend. My impression: If you liked the Baldur's gate series you will adore this game. Decent writing, combat ifs fun and challenging. Not sure if it is worth 35$ but I am an old man now and can afford to spend money on my nostalgia indulgences.
Edit: They use a "modified" 5e system that has skill trees, so don't expect pure 5e if you play.
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« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 04:59:38 AM by amiable »
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shiznitz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268
the plural of mangina
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Edit: They use a "modified" 5e system that has skill trees, so don't expect pure 5e if you play.
You might have just sold me there. Still 3-18 DnD stats? Prestige classes?
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I have never played WoW.
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amiable
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2126
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Edit: They use a "modified" 5e system that has skill trees, so don't expect pure 5e if you play.
You might have just sold me there. Still 3-18 DnD stats? Prestige classes? Nope pure classes based on skill trees. Surprising flexibility with what you can do if you want to be creative. Mellee wizard? Sure. Spellcasting, control oriented rogue? yYp. Buff-focused fighter? Yep. I am having too much fun restarting. At least in the beginning hard mode is actually quite difficult.
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« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 06:49:13 AM by amiable »
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Bunk
Contributor
Posts: 5828
Operating Thetan One
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General chatter in this on the Reddit /r is pretty stinky. Reviews are far from stellar as well.
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"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL "I have retard strength." - Schild
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Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637
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For single player the /r/swordcoast just seems like a lot of people that were expecting pure translation of D&D with no adaption to a video game media.
For their multiplayer complaints I can see some of them making sense. These are the big ones imo:
-The DM tool is lacking and needs a map editor, scripting events, and to allow for custom made items (possibly quests too). -Looting in multiplayer needs improving (it's first come first serve and trading is through dropping on the ground last I saw).
Overall, I'm enjoying the campaign as a single player, but if someone is planning on only playing single player then waiting for a price drop makes sense. If you want to get in on multiplayer then it's okay at this price but waiting might not be too bad of an idea either.
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« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 11:25:39 AM by Segoris »
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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Reddit would appear to be crapping on this from a great height.
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Montague
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1297
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Reddit would appear to be crapping on this from a great height.
They're getting hammered on Steam as well. Was about to buy this first day but it looks like they hacked this thing to pieces in order to get it out the door. Oh well, back to Baldur's Gate I-II EE.
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When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross - Sinclair Lewis.
I can tell more than 1 fucktard at a time to stfu, have no fears. - WayAbvPar
We all have the God-given right to go to hell our own way. Don't fuck with God's plan. - MahrinSkel
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Tannhauser
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4436
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I bought the $60 version. Stay far away.
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Threash
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9165
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Reddit would appear to be crapping on this from a great height.
They're getting hammered on Steam as well. Was about to buy this first day but it looks like they hacked this thing to pieces in order to get it out the door. Oh well, back to Baldur's Gate I-II EE. And SA for what that's worth.
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I am the .00000001428%
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Xilren's Twin
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Yeah, this is no where close to a good game at present. Good: the character system will actually let you develop very different characters from a single base class with the multiple skill trees. Bad: Everything else, from the UI (has some options you need to turn off before you start else the annoy you to death in the first 5 minutes) to the game pacing, NPC pathing and skill use, and dumb decisions like multiplayer looting being free for all which equals whoever gets to the chest first gets it all - good luck ranged classes. Ugly: Content creation is an unfunny joke. If you can't do custom maps, monsters, loot, scripted events, and even the dialogue options are awful, whats the point?
Stay away for another 6 months at best, probably forever.
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"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
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Ghambit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5576
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Not even. Lack of tech there means nothing. They pay fuckall and treat employees like shit. That's the actual problem.
I've heard this same thing before. Also, that there is an overarching "conspiracy" to keep the products from merging with digital assets as much as they should. It's a fine line in a market share they don't want to see decline. You're better off using Divinity to run games in this way currently. That has a realtime DM no?
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"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom." -Samwise
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Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637
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You're better off using Divinity to run games in this way currently. That has a realtime DM no?
No, not even close. It has 2 player coop by default, and 4 player via a mod, but that is in the same story/campaign as single player. There are a few custom maps/quests made by modders, but they're pretty stingy in how they work and what bugs them out
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Xilren's Twin
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You're better off using Divinity to run games in this way currently. That has a realtime DM no?
No, not even close. It has 2 player coop by default, and 4 player via a mod, but that is in the same story/campaign as single player. There are a few custom maps/quests made by modders, but they're pretty stingy in how they work and what bugs them out The sad thing about SCL is that the single player campaign is actually pretty good once it gets going. I've put 20 hours into it so far and am only level 11. It has all things content creators would want - varied environments, skill checks in dialogues/interactions with other stuff, decent puzzles of both mechanical and logic, trigger events, nice customized weapons, decent combat with varied enemy groups, cut scenes, etc. There's just none of that in the content creation or DM tools. From what i gather, they also stretched 5th Ed rules quite a bit by bumping normal hit points up by a ton, and allowing ability score items to stack so it's not hard to be running around with 20+ in your main stats. That contributes to the most overpowered part of the game, wisdom based DC saves on CC spells like, sleep, hold monster and charm. A high INT caster can basically dictate the fights pretty well with just those spells.
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"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
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Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10131
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So, it's just like real D&D then.
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"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
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Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637
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The sad thing about SCL is that the single player campaign is actually pretty good once it gets going. I've put 20 hours into it so far and am only level 11. It has all things content creators would want - varied environments, skill checks in dialogues/interactions with other stuff, decent puzzles of both mechanical and logic, trigger events, nice customized weapons, decent combat with varied enemy groups, cut scenes, etc. There's just none of that in the content creation or DM tools.
From what i gather, they also stretched 5th Ed rules quite a bit by bumping normal hit points up by a ton, and allowing ability score items to stack so it's not hard to be running around with 20+ in your main stats. That contributes to the most overpowered part of the game, wisdom based DC saves on CC spells like, sleep, hold monster and charm. A high INT caster can basically dictate the fights pretty well with just those spells.
Yes, I liked the single player campaign it felt like Dragon Age Origins-lite without the ability to setup tactics for your companions. Some of the choices they forced on you were interesting, the skill checks felt good, though the quest markers not updating was annoying but that is pretty minor. I did like the puzzles and I still never did find all 10 rubies or all of the parts the blacksmith could craft so they did a good job of hiding those. One thing I found annoying (and it's kind of like this in a lot of multiplayer maps) is the need for a rogue/ranger/whatever to constantly use search. I think that should be switched to be a passive ability and maybe renamed to awareness, but I don't know how that works in 5th Ed or D&D in general as I never really played P&P. As for using the DM tools in actual play, I've played with a live DM and they did a really good job of setting up a scenario by manually-spawning mobs to simulate triggering events. I found that great on their part and shitty on SCL's part since he should never have had to have worked that hard to create a scenario (even if he did seem to be enjoying it and had the time to do so because combat is kind of slower). This should have been available to him, but sadly the devs want the tools to be approachable by kids and are already falling behind the "we're watching metrics" excuse and not reading up on how many people they've scared off because of how simplistic of an approach they've taken. Regarding stretching the 5th Ed rules, I read a little about some of the rules and a big one that kept coming up was the main stat going over 20, and yeah it's really easy to do. What I found during my playing is that some race/class/origin combos can have 2 stats at 20, with the rest at 12-16 and then any gear brings your main stats well over 20 and you can even get into the 30s if you gear for it. This is a pretty big issue with dex since it not only grants dmg but AC as well. So rogues, rangers, and dex fighters can just stack both dps/defense with one stat, and work on desired stats for saves. Even worse is that stat stacking is less of a problem then stacking cooldown reduction which can easily be stacked into the upper 70%. So even though most cooldowns kind of suck (and the majority are a dps loss), for paladins it's incredible. Having something like Avenging Angel (+50% action speed, +x% move speed, bonus str, I think bonus ac), Aura of Vita (aura healing friendlies every round), Bless (bonus to attack and saving rolls), Crusader's mantle (gives allies +radiant dmg on hit), and then the -ac and -movement speed debuffs 100% uptime (and your heals are at like a 4-8s cooldown) makes pallies pretty damn sick and it's why they're viewed as one of the best classes right now.
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Xilren's Twin
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This just in, they released an update and roadmap today and it seems they are headed in the right direction (tile based creation, branching dialogue trees). I'll quote the relevant parts less the marketing speak. Sword Coast Legends: State of the Game 10/30 As much and as long as we've labored to launch SCL, this is really just step one, a foundation for an even greater experience we have always intended to improve and expand. Our goal has always been to put Sword Coast Legends into the hands of would-be adventurers and to work with them to improve that experience. We have an aggressive list of content and updates planned for the near-term... one that will be delivered to you at no additional charge, starting TODAY!
Halloween Update: "The Pumpkin Patch": October 30th
New "Liars' Night" themed area and placeables in the spirit of Halloween Cemetery DM location with over 35 new placeable objects and new player gear Screen nudge with mouse (toggled option) - Players will now be able to move the camera by nudging the edges of the screen. The WASD keys and the middle mouse button will still work the way they currently do. Auto-heal at Adventurer's Camp - When entering the adventurer's camp, the party will heal any damage previously taken. DM collect quests will display "x of x found" on the HUD Hotkey added to re-center camera on player Doubled the max length for DM quest conversation text Added the option to lock your cursor to the window Bug fixes
Community Pack 1: Week of November 9th Companion-Specific Skill Trees Unlocked for Players - Existing unique companion skill trees will become available to players Nature Set - New outdoor area cleared and ready for customization with over 150 new placeable nature objects for DMs. Ability Respec - Characters wishing to forget their prior training will be able to do so. All character points will be refunded, allowing players to change builds or reselect their characters' abilities. Player Stash - Players will be able to store additional items within their own personal stash. Skill Rolls - Players will be able to use ability rolls that take their character's bonuses into account. For instance, characters will be able to specifically make a "Strength" roll and have their Strength modifier automatically added to the roll. Increased Number of Available Monster Abilities - Custom creatures will have additional monster abilities available to them. Bug fixes and additional community feedback items as time allows
Community Pack 2: Week of November 30th Address concerns with ninja looting in multi-player games New Playable Sub-race: Drow Elves (including access to Darkness and Faerie Fire abilities) DM-placeable visual effects (fire, smoke, etc.) Revisions and improvements to the rules for death, party wipe, and stabilize, including new options for players that want more challenge Village area and village-related placeable objects for DMs to use in their modules Ability to give ambient text to NPCs on select Ability for DMs to change the randomized interiors of every tile Lock/unlock locations on all quest states (give/update/complete) Bug fixes and additional community feedback items as time allows
Community Pack 3: December Official introduction of mod support, including Tile based level editor Branching dialog editor Adjustable game systems, ex: round timer, loot tables, etc. Community facing development of these features to begin immediately Option to disable monster level scaling in DM campaigns Bug fixes and additional community feedback items as time allows
Rage of Demons: Coming Soon Return to the Underdark in this all-new adventure taking place as part of D&D's "Rage of Demons" storyline, featuring the legendary outcast drow Drizzt Do'Urden and some of the deadliest enemies ever to terrify Faerûn. New Rage of Demons tile sets and placeable objects New playable race: Tieflings New creatures available for DMs New Playable class based on community input Allow player-created characters as companions in story mode Enable players to control their characters' movement with the WASD keys Bug fixes and additional community feedback items as time allows
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"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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Not sure that helps when most of your intended audience didn't purchase your game.
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637
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That is a good start, sadly most of it should have been in the game a long time ago and they just flat-out fucked up.
I'm not sure why ability balancing isn't in there though. Most of the cooldown abilities (especially for mages) need a damage boost. Especially the abilities where rank 1 costs 2 points, then ranks 2-4 are 1 point each but only give about a 3-5% increase in damage making the entire ability path not worth investing in.
And omg the stash <3
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Xilren's Twin
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Not sure that helps when most of your intended audience didn't purchase your game.
Best i can tell, it got pushed out the door due to publishing deadlines despite them knowing the important half of draw of this game (the content creation) was MIA. Good job sabotaging your own offering publisher....
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"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
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Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637
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From Ash on the SCL forums: Look under your chair! You MAY be getting an extra SCL key.
As a big “thank you” to our community, we are randomly issuing Sword Coast Legends Steam Keys to active community members to share with friends and family. Players don’t have to do anything special to be eligible and will be randomly selected through auto-magic. Good luck! So check your email associated with , you may have a free Steam key
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Ginaz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3534
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There's a free weekend for this coming up between 17-22 Dec. on Steam in case you ever wanted to try it.
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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Is it worth it ? Did it get ANY better ??
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Ginaz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3534
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Is it worth it ? Did it get ANY better ??
No idea. I'd check it out myself but I'm going to visit my family this weekend for Christmas and probably won't have time to play.
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Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637
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It became better, if only so very slightly. However, until Community Pack 3 hits, save your time and money. It might be worth something at that point, but I kind of doubt it.
I think it basically comes down to this - If you're going for singleplayer campaign, then just go replay Dragon Age: Origins, which was just better in every way. If you're going for multiplayer and to use a game as a way to roleplay or even just dungeon crawl, then wait until CP3 when mod support finally makes its way into the game and maybe it will be worth checking on. Bring your own friends though if you do pick it up, since damn near no one plays this game any more, and I'm not sure it can be saved.
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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I am disappoint.
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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