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Author Topic: Darkest Dungeon  (Read 18728 times)
Hoax
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on: February 03, 2015, 02:13:18 PM

Pretty cool, f13-approved decent art rogue-like. Its pretty content sparse (lots of classes but not so much on environment or enemy variety) but remember this thread when it goes on a 75% sale sometime in the future. When you can buy this for $5 it will be an absolute steal and a blast for a single play through, especially if they add in a lot more content as its currently for sale listed as Early Access.

The stress mechanic is nice and adds tension, the setting is pretty fun/cool. Classes include things like Grave Robber, Leper, Highwayman etc.

It feels very Mordheim meets gritty webcomic art. It has some xcom vibes in the recruiting and leveling up guys who are then damaged and eventually killed off as you go on missions.

Some art here: http://cribs.deviantart.com/gallery/
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 02:00:40 PM by schild »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Rasix
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Reply #1 on: February 03, 2015, 02:16:58 PM

This, Besiege, and that Castaway simulator are really testing the resolve on my "no early access" stance.

-Rasix
Malakili
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Reply #2 on: February 03, 2015, 02:28:39 PM

It looks real good.
Fabricated
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Reply #3 on: February 03, 2015, 05:28:53 PM

This game is really good but needs many many balance tweaks.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
MrHat
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Reply #4 on: February 03, 2015, 07:00:39 PM

This, Besiege, and that Castaway simulator are really testing the resolve on my "no early access" stance.

Castaway simulator?
Khaldun
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Reply #5 on: February 03, 2015, 07:01:34 PM

I broke down and got Beseige. So far I don't feel bad about it.
Teleku
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Reply #6 on: February 03, 2015, 07:04:38 PM

This, Besiege, and that Castaway simulator are really testing the resolve on my "no early access" stance.

Castaway simulator?
Think hes referring to Stranded Deep, which does look pretty cool.

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #7 on: February 04, 2015, 06:30:58 AM

Watched a few videos on it and right now it's too rough for my tastes
Threash
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Reply #8 on: February 04, 2015, 03:10:15 PM

I am loving this so far, but yeah it needs some more variety.

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Ruvaldt
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Reply #9 on: February 04, 2015, 04:44:04 PM

Picked it up.  This is going to be a great game once it is more polished and has more content.  It's definitely fun though and I'm enjoying it.

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
Threash
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Reply #10 on: February 04, 2015, 06:58:48 PM

Oh god one of my party members stressed out too much and became abusive, she then proceeded to spend the entire time talking shit about every one else.

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Ginaz
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Reply #11 on: February 05, 2015, 04:53:16 PM

Having not played this yet, but watching a few game play videos, it seems like they may want to tone down the stress levels.  The characters seem to get stressed out very quickly while reducing stress can take much, much longer.   Core game still looks pretty good and probably can be great if they fine tune things correctly.

I'll pre order you SWTOR if you let me put my lightsaber in your sarlaac cave
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Fabricated
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Reply #12 on: February 06, 2015, 06:33:20 AM

The stress spiral is pretty bad. The RNG has two states: Not shitting on you, and totally taking a shit on you. There's no real thing in this game where you can luck out and gain some sort of cool advantage that gives you a solid edge for a while without breaking the game...you merely just don't get fucked by the RNG. Basically, that's the best thing that can happen to you in this game: not getting fucked by the RNG.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 11:28:01 AM by Fabricated »

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Khaldun
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Reply #13 on: February 06, 2015, 03:00:50 PM

Yeah, but the whole idea of a stress mechanic is really fun. And to some extent if you could manage it so well that it never led to anything, you'd lose all that fun. I think the trick is to make it so it's not an insta-game-over when characters go completely nuts.
pxib
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Reply #14 on: February 06, 2015, 04:25:18 PM

My guess is that the stress mechanic will get cranked around and tooled with and that's a large part of what this early access beta whatever is about. Sounds like it's their major addition to an extremely well-tread genre.

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Sophismata
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Reply #15 on: February 06, 2015, 05:07:32 PM

I have not found stress to be a problem. I regularly play without torches - careful prioritisation of enemies allows me to end most fights with very little stress gain. And even if characters hit their limit they can still play. Most of the time though, I'll rest before that happens and give the guy a pep talk.

Critical hits, on the other hand… almost all my my failures (forced to retreat with loot but no exp) at this point come from strings of enemy AoE crits.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 05:10:47 PM by Sophismata »

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Ceryse
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Reply #16 on: February 10, 2015, 02:21:46 AM

I want to like this game. The RNG aspect of the game, however, is something I'm finding I cannot tolerate. Why? Because I have shit luck. On my eighth run (of which four failed on the tutorial because of luck) and over the past two runs (one in 75+ light all the time, the other a darkness run), and my runs went like this, respectively (went 13 and 15 weeks);

Hit % for my heroes: 64%, 62%
Crit % for my heroes: 3%, 4%
Dodge % for my heroes: 7%, 8%

Hit % for enemies: 82%, 89%
Crit % for enemies: 19%, 24%
Dodge % for enemies: 31%, 41%

Just let that sink in for a moment. My Hit % on most abilities was supposed to be 75%+ (often 80%+), yet I fell far short of that. Crit %, especially in the darkness run made me went to punch a wall. The enemies just couldn't help but hit, and hit hard. I actually managed to complete all but three quests over the two runs (one failed on the very first fight of the dungeon where I got surprised and suffered five straight crits that wiped out my entire party before I got to move, as one hero got stunned the move before I got the chance to retreat, the other was a boss run against the Hag where I simply couldn't make head-way due to luck and composition and only lost the poor Highwayman in the pot).

Stress was a constant problem (due to common crits against and few crits for), but the main issue was health; I just couldn't keep up with the damage against, even though I constantly had my guys upgraded in Skills and equipment and kept bad traits off. Don't think my party compositions were that bad, either (usually went with three groups; a Crusader, Helion, Highwayman, Vestal, a Leper, Helion, Highwayman, Vestal, and a Helion, Highwayman, Bard, Vestal, in my darkness run, as an example).

Want to like the game, but the game won't let me. Bah. I've never liked RNGs.. and this is why.
Khaldun
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Reply #17 on: February 10, 2015, 01:49:31 PM

It definitely needs not just some balancing, but some way for the player to strategically hedge against RNG. I beat the Apprentice Necromancer with four fairly untrained guys after losing my four alpha guys entirely because in one battle the RNG left me alone, in the other it absolutely crushed me. Same mix of classes in both. I get that the fun of it is partly that it's not rock, paper, scissors, that you can't always win just by matching the right classes against the right enemy and doing it right, but still.

I really like a lot of the game, though.

I love the way you can be just holding on by your fingernails through a battle--the heal mechanic/Death's Door mechanic is great.

I have been trying to figure out if certain classes have weighted outcomes in terms of interacting with certain objects--do highwaymen etc. do better disarming traps, do plague doctors do better with books or scrolls, etc.? I can't tell, but if not, that should be the case eventually.
Threash
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Reply #18 on: February 11, 2015, 10:50:16 AM

Grave robbers are supposed to be good at traps i think.

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Khaldun
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Reply #19 on: February 11, 2015, 11:03:37 AM

Grave robbers are a confusing class. Also for whatever reason I almost never see them in the available heroes list.
Mattemeo
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Reply #20 on: March 09, 2015, 03:46:12 PM

Keeping my eye on this one as it nears release. Watched a couple of videos of newer builds today, it still looks like there's considerable balance issues, but I'm so enamoured with the whole Mike Mignola smashes Castlevania into Final Fantasy aesthetic it's incredibly tempting to buy in now.

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tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #21 on: March 09, 2015, 03:51:40 PM

The high RNG factor has me weary of purchase.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 04:27:20 PM by tazelbain »

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Fabricated
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Reply #22 on: March 09, 2015, 10:28:04 PM

Grave robbers are a confusing class. Also for whatever reason I almost never see them in the available heroes list.
Grave Robbers are one of the classes that can be used in two distinct ways; you can have a melee grave robber that uses the forward lunge move and the fade move to move back and forth in the lineup, and you can have a 2-3rd strata robber who just hangs out and throws daggers/clears debuffs. They're pretty weak overall IMO, as are plague doctors.

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MournelitheCalix
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Reply #23 on: March 10, 2015, 12:44:07 AM

Out of curiousity, does this game have any more well known analogues?  I was kind of puzzled as to what kind of game this actually was.

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Hutch
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Reply #24 on: March 10, 2015, 04:24:13 PM

I've seen people compare it to X-Com. Which I haven't played.
But you're managing a barracks full of characters, who go out on quests (dungeon crawls) in groups of 4.
As the game progresses, your toons level up, you can buy them upgrades, and buy them new skills.

I've also seen it called a rogue-like. Or a "rogue-lite". All it has in common with rogue-like games is the permadeath and the random dungeon layouts.

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Khaldun
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Reply #25 on: March 10, 2015, 10:20:15 PM

The RNG really fucks you hard sometimes.

Getting a good mix of classes is an interesting puzzle.
Johny Cee
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Reply #26 on: March 10, 2015, 10:26:49 PM

It definitely needs not just some balancing, but some way for the player to strategically hedge against RNG. I beat the Apprentice Necromancer with four fairly untrained guys after losing my four alpha guys entirely because in one battle the RNG left me alone, in the other it absolutely crushed me. Same mix of classes in both. I get that the fun of it is partly that it's not rock, paper, scissors, that you can't always win just by matching the right classes against the right enemy and doing it right, but still.

I really like a lot of the game, though.

I love the way you can be just holding on by your fingernails through a battle--the heal mechanic/Death's Door mechanic is great.

I have been trying to figure out if certain classes have weighted outcomes in terms of interacting with certain objects--do highwaymen etc. do better disarming traps, do plague doctors do better with books or scrolls, etc.? I can't tell, but if not, that should be the case eventually.

I think the whole point of the game is the RNG fucks you.  It isn't a traditional min/max RPG where you constantly climb in power until you can handle anything, and you take your chosen band from zeros to god killers in the course of the game...  you've got to be proactive in retreating and managing the negative quirks.  Even in good runs sometimes things just got pear shaped fast.

Don't be afraid to lose a guy to beat that boss, but by the same token don't be afraid to give up on a dungeon fast if you get unlucky and stress is high or you've been chain fucked with negative quirks.  Rotate your heroes around so that you aren't focusing too much on a couple guys as the A team.  Make sure you have a couple replacements in the wings, and don't give up on expanding your roster and running lowbies through low level runs.l

I want to like this game. The RNG aspect of the game, however, is something I'm finding I cannot tolerate. Why? Because I have shit luck. On my eighth run (of which four failed on the tutorial because of luck) and over the past two runs (one in 75+ light all the time, the other a darkness run), and my runs went like this, respectively (went 13 and 15 weeks);

Hit % for my heroes: 64%, 62%
Crit % for my heroes: 3%, 4%
Dodge % for my heroes: 7%, 8%

Hit % for enemies: 82%, 89%
Crit % for enemies: 19%, 24%
Dodge % for enemies: 31%, 41%

Just let that sink in for a moment. My Hit % on most abilities was supposed to be 75%+ (often 80%+), yet I fell far short of that. Crit %, especially in the darkness run made me went to punch a wall. The enemies just couldn't help but hit, and hit hard. I actually managed to complete all but three quests over the two runs (one failed on the very first fight of the dungeon where I got surprised and suffered five straight crits that wiped out my entire party before I got to move, as one hero got stunned the move before I got the chance to retreat, the other was a boss run against the Hag where I simply couldn't make head-way due to luck and composition and only lost the poor Highwayman in the pot).

Stress was a constant problem (due to common crits against and few crits for), but the main issue was health; I just couldn't keep up with the damage against, even though I constantly had my guys upgraded in Skills and equipment and kept bad traits off. Don't think my party compositions were that bad, either (usually went with three groups; a Crusader, Helion, Highwayman, Vestal, a Leper, Helion, Highwayman, Vestal, and a Helion, Highwayman, Bard, Vestal, in my darkness run, as an example).

Want to like the game, but the game won't let me. Bah. I've never liked RNGs.. and this is why.

This sounds like a quirk problem.  Are you letting devastating negative quirks accumulate?  Are you running the guys with stress enhancing quirks through runs where they run into enemies they have huge negatives against?  Are you running all the trinkets?  Most trinkets aren't really worth using.  Also, target priority and having a stunner or puller to get that monster with the stress abilities locked down, dead fast, or in front where your front line can wreck him.

The scouting traits are really, really, really handy.  Reduces chances to be surprised and to surprise the enemy.  If you can constantly kill that cultist or vomiting pig thing before they get to inflict stress, your life is much easier.

Johny Cee
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Reply #27 on: March 10, 2015, 11:06:37 PM

Also, the ambiance is amazing.

It's a Lovecraftian setting (mostly "Rats in the Walls" plus "Call of Cthulthu"... the game studio is Red Hook, probably for "The Horror at Red Hook") with a Bastion style narrator.  It's a game where I don't automatically ESC out of the intro cinematic, since the intro is fantastic and puts you in the right mood to play.
Senses
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Reply #28 on: March 10, 2015, 11:58:14 PM

This game....I'm so addicted, mainly because I'm so horrible at it.  I can't stop failing, but each time a little farther. Its ridiculously fun and its nice to see that Roguelikes finally advanced in a non Diabloesque manner.   This is worth every cent of 20 bucks even if you ditch it after 2 weeks.
Hutch
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Reply #29 on: March 11, 2015, 08:59:43 AM

So, I started up a new game last night. First mission, I got through it with no deaths, and everyone stressed in the 30-50+ range. And a minimal haul in terms of money and heirlooms.
So I threw a couple of them in the Abbey (couldn't afford to do all four at once) and then went to see what was on the meatwagon.

Two highwaymen, a grave digger, and a jester. No tanks, no healers. I grabbed them all and went for it.
Both highwaymen had Point Blank, so they went up front. The grave digger went third, for dagger throwing.
The jester had exactly one useful ability, the battle buff song. Whatever it's called. Buffs the whole party for, I want to say acc and crit.

I packed them off with a little extra food, since they had no healer, and crossed my fingers.
Well, the RNG was kind to me. The highwaymen were just mowing down their targets. Point Blank is sick, especially with the Jester buff.
Everyone in the party acquitted themselves pretty well. I did use all of the food. And everyone had a sliver of health left at the end of the mission. But also a sliver of stress.

It just goes to show, you can get good from the RNG. And an unconventional party can finish a mission.

Plant yourself like a tree
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MournelitheCalix
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Reply #30 on: March 11, 2015, 12:20:23 PM

I've seen people compare it to X-Com. Which I haven't played.
But you're managing a barracks full of characters, who go out on quests (dungeon crawls) in groups of 4.
As the game progresses, your toons level up, you can buy them upgrades, and buy them new skills.

I've also seen it called a rogue-like. Or a "rogue-lite". All it has in common with rogue-like games is the permadeath and the random dungeon layouts.


Thanks.

Born too late to explore the new world.
Born too early to explore the universe.
Born just in time to see liberty die.
Ceryse
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Reply #31 on: March 11, 2015, 12:42:42 PM

This sounds like a quirk problem.  Are you letting devastating negative quirks accumulate?  Are you running the guys with stress enhancing quirks through runs where they run into enemies they have huge negatives against?  Are you running all the trinkets?  Most trinkets aren't really worth using.  Also, target priority and having a stunner or puller to get that monster with the stress abilities locked down, dead fast, or in front where your front line can wreck him.

The scouting traits are really, really, really handy.  Reduces chances to be surprised and to surprise the enemy.  If you can constantly kill that cultist or vomiting pig thing before they get to inflict stress, your life is much easier.

Wasn't any of those; generally ran very few trinkets, except for ones that gave no ill-effects (generally because the negatives wouldn't apply due to the party either being a Light party, or a Dark party). I was also generally able to keep negative quirks to a minimum and almost always non-relevant (either they were non-combat/stress quirks or applied to dungeons that character didn't run). Finally, I was very concious of focus firing certain monsters (i.e., those that did big/multiple attacks, stress or health, died first, pulled/pushed as I could, etc., etc.). I even properly took advantage of the various curious by using cheat sheets.

My problem with the game wasn't that it was hard mechanically or that I didn't "get it". I just had shitty, shitty luck. As much as I enjoyed the game's intent and atmosphere I couldn't keep playing a game so based on luck when my luck was so very bad. From my first run to my last I had bad luck every run except one (and that one good luck run was incredibly easy the game was boring because my characters weren't even struggling against bosses due to how often they crit and dodged). That kind of variance from run to run based solely on luck is something I don't like in a game, so I eventually just put it down and haven't gone back.
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Reply #32 on: March 11, 2015, 01:26:49 PM

Yeah, a string of crits from just about any enemy can completely destroy a run no matter how well prepared you are.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Mandella
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Reply #33 on: March 11, 2015, 03:37:49 PM

Well my resolve crumbled and I'm on day one with this game. My first healer became Masochistic halfway through a dungeon and refused to heal anybody anymore ("Pain makes you stronger!!").

Then she died.

No new healer has showed up yet.

I'm about to do a dungeon run with a Jester instead. At least he'll keep us entertained while we die.
Sophismata
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Reply #34 on: March 11, 2015, 04:55:42 PM

I usually skip the healer. Only need one for boss runs.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
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