Avengers: Age of Ultron.

[Ironwood]

Yeah,

[HaemishM]

[jgsugden]

Ultron Prime was tougher than the 'tin foil' Ultrons.  He went through a few 'prime' Ultrons in the movie (even destroying one of them himself). 

[Merusk]

[Evildrider]

Ultron is able to come back if even a little bit of his "mind" is around somewhere.  As for his bodies they are all different and each incarnation has had different powers/weaknesses.  It's one of the ways they manage to keep him kinda fresh in the comics. 

Also Cap is pretty bad ass in the comics and has taken down people that he shouldn't have had a chance against.  It's not just his physical abilities and the shield but also his sheer force of will.

[MediumHigh]

Meh, super hero comics usually have to reconcile its vast collection of popular but street level heroes with a universe literally choking with super powers. So writers started making knowing martial arts a super power (not a super power, the best super power). Literally, like black panther can put the silver surfer in an arm bar. Which is why marvel been masturbating over spiderman joining the avengers. He is the perfect combination of "martial arts" and "super powers" that he can literally be in any situation and he comes out the plucky underdog hero, even if the guy can chuck cars at snipers located several miles away and hiding on the 20th floor.

[Evildrider]

Meh, super hero comics usually have to reconcile its vast collection of popular but street level heroes with a universe literally choking with super powers. So writers started making knowing martial arts a super power (not a super power, the best super power). Literally, like black panther can put the silver surfer in an arm bar. Which is why marvel been masturbating over spiderman joining the avengers. He is the perfect combination of "martial arts" and "super powers" that he can literally be in any situation and he comes out the plucky underdog hero, even if the guy can chuck cars at snipers located several miles away and hiding on the 20th floor.

Well, if you are a street level hero you pretty much have to know how to fight.  I think that's just a given.  Martial Arts is just all around a better vehicle to show off abilities then a straight boxer/brawling style.  Spidey isn't a true martial artist though, one of his things is his improvisational fighting style.  He's not Deadpool unpredictable but Parker made up his fighting abilities as he went along... well til he was trained by Cap.  Spidey, to me at least, is more about his personality then his powers and fighting ability.  I really hope we get to see the annoying wise cracking Peter Parker on the big screen.

[UnSub]

IMHO - Cut 50% of the combats and add back that much of the movie that was dropped on the editing room floor and you'd have a better movie (assuming that it is of good quality).  Set piece fights are cool and fun, but they need the glue of a story or they get boring.  In particular, I'd have:

[Ironwood]

Wait, what ?

Are you saying that Cap was throwaway in Avengers 1 ?

[NowhereMan]

Regarding Ultron's motivation in this movie:

[Khaldun]

Yes--and

[Ironwood]

Um, yeah, that's all fairly clear.

[NowhereMan]

Well

[jgsugden]

[UnSub]

Wait, what ?

Are you saying that Cap was throwaway in Avengers 1 ?

Maybe not throwaway, but he could be taken out of "Avengers" and not be hugely missed.

 - He discovers what SHIELD is up to after Tony Stark.

 - He's held off on the Helicarrier's damaged engine by a mook with a gun.

 - His major contribution to the Thor vs Iron Man fight is providing a giant bell.

 - He's got a bit where he saves people, but it's less played on than Black Widow's role (and arguably she's more proactive during the battle) or Hulk doing things.

In the attempt to give all characters some time, CapAm got squeezed out in the role he was meant to serve. Iron Man is defacto team leader, other Avengers are more effective fighters and being the team's moral compass didn't really come into play. Plus his costume looked weak in the film.

It really took until "Winter Solider" to give CapAm some substance.

[Ironwood]

I don't agree.

[HaemishM]

I agree with the Scots disagreement.

[Lakov_Sanite]

"That character was completely irrelevant to the plot if you take all the things they did and have someone else do them"

-Every Movie Ever

[Merusk]

Except Indy, because the outcome is the same with or without him. 

[HaemishM]

You just made Sheldon assplode. 

[Margalis]

In Avengers 1 Cap was just a dude doing gymnastics for show.

These Superhero movies suffer from the problem where everyone needs something to do, or in Hollywood-speak, to be serviced by the plot. So in every confrontation every character has to do something relevant, in every dialogue scene every person needs a quip, etc. This is also why they are so prone to adding too many characters and going off the rails - not only do they add too many characters but then they insist that each one has to do something, so you end up with a large part of the running time dedicated to giving each character a moment rather than advancing the plot.

In A1 you could tell they were struggling with a way to make Cap stand out - they tried to make him seem like a leader / strategy guy by barking out a few orders but it didn't really work IMO.
---

I was just saying the same thing about Raiders of the Lost Ark - Jones is wholly irrelevant to basically the entire movie and doesn't figure into the conclusion at all. But it works there because when you're dealing with God the idea that some dude with a whip is going to be equally important is just silly. I suspect a lot of people would call it bad screenwriting though. (At least if you described it coyly and didn't give away that you were talking about Raiders)

[Furiously]

Except Indy, because the outcome is the same with or without him. 

I disagree, Indy saved Hitler because he destroyed the plane that was going to fly to Ark to Berlin.

Also I saw the Avengers today and it was a movie. There was an explosion at some point and I thought, "Hmmm, Mad Max did this nonstop and much better." It was better than Ironman 3. I was pissed there was no scene at the end of the credits.

[lamaros]

Thread is too long but I saw this on the plane. Is it generally accepted it is shit? What a pile of nothing.

[NowhereMan]

It was a fun popcorn action flick, Ultron had some great lines and it set up the next series of MCU movies. It does reflect a bit of an issue that Marvel as this goes on are going to need more and more 'bridge' movies that move the story from one set to the next. While they might be fun spectacles they're unlikely to stand up to rewatching and probably won't be much fun if not on a big screen.

[Threash]

Yeah, it was a super hero movie with super heroes doing super heroey things.  I got exactly what i expected and was satisfied with the result.  Not sure what's "shit" about it.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, it was a super hero movie with super heroes doing super heroey things.  I got exactly what i expected and was satisfied with the result.  Not sure what's "shit" about it.

This. I've seen it twice in the theaters and it holds up to increased scrutiny, IMO.

[Samwise]

Iron Man 1 remains the only MCU movie that I feel really holds up to rewatching as a "classic" movie.  The rest have all been fine, but even the first Avengers movie, which many people cite as their favorite, felt just "okay" to me on a second viewing.

[eldaec]

Iron Man 1 remains the only MCU movie that I feel really holds up to rewatching as a "classic" movie.  The rest have all been fine, but even the first Avengers movie, which many people cite as their favorite, felt just "okay" to me on a second viewing.

I've enjoyed a rewatch of Thor, Captain America, & GotG. Might watch IM again on a slow day. Don't imagine I'd bother with any of the others.

[Hutch]

Thread is too long but I saw this on the plane. Is it generally accepted it is shit? What a pile of nothing.

I watched it the first time, and came away thinking it could have been better.
Then I went and watched/listened to all the spoilers and reviews that I'd been avoiding.
Then I watched it again, and it definitely held up better.
It's pretty dense, so it's easy to miss things the first time around.
This is what happens when you're trying to service the Ultron story, the Infinity Stones story, and work in the dialogue for over a dozen characters.

[Lakov_Sanite]

it wasn't shit but god damn it was bloated. Trying to do this entire story in a 2:30 hour movie I think was a mistake but I'm not sure how else they could have done it.  It was fun but left me thinking that it could have been done better.

[Evildrider]

it wasn't shit but god damn it was bloated. Trying to do this entire story in a 2:30 hour movie I think was a mistake but I'm not sure how else they could have done it.  It was fun but left me thinking that it could have been done better.

Well the original run time was 170 minutes and they chopped 30 minutes of it.  I think when they had to pick and choose what they cut it lost some little things.  AoU to me is in about the middle as far as which Marvel movies I like. 

[jgsugden]

I'm in the small camp that says: If the story works better at 3:30 than 2:30, make it a 3:30 movie.  Add back an intermission if you need to do so... tell stories in the length that is good for the story and the quality of the product will give long term value worth the inconvenience.

[lamaros]

I didn't like it because it was a big stupid superhero movie, but was presented like it was dramatic and touching and deep? I thought Thor was goofy and fun and had a sense of humor, but it was also a lot tighter focused as well. This one seemed self centered in a way other super hero movies I've seen didn't (I've only seen a couple). It felt like there were a lot of 'fan moments' pushed in for the sake of themselves, or the brand, rather then to make it a better film.

I'm not a comic or super hero movie aficionado though, so maybe that's what the audience wants? For me it felt really flat as a stand-alone experience.

[lamaros]

Iron Man 1 remains the only MCU movie that I feel really holds up to rewatching as a "classic" movie.  The rest have all been fine, but even the first Avengers movie, which many people cite as their favorite, felt just "okay" to me on a second viewing.

I've enjoyed a rewatch of Thor, Captain America, & GotG. Might watch IM again on a slow day. Don't imagine I'd bother with any of the others.

Ah, I enjoyed GotG and Thor was ok, so maybe my bar was misadjusted. I thought from all the chat in f13 that most of these new marvel movies were worth a watch.

[Evildrider]

None of the movies are shit.  The ones panned the most seem to be Thor 2 and Iron Man 3, but overall they aren't horrible movies.