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Author Topic: CSM X - Duty calls me to serve  (Read 10915 times)
Sir T
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Reply #35 on: December 02, 2014, 09:07:21 AM

I was there when the Goons left Syndicate to join the Russians. I participated in Operation Revolver. Hell look up Himo Amasacia in the killboard and you will see my name on one of the earliest killmails on there.

Anyway, I'll just quote Mynanna on the eve forums. Yeah I did do a little reading the last few days

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4299967#post4299967

Quote
Quote
What do you think about lowsec in its current state?


Thanks for that P
As to lowsec, I think a lot of people who live there say it's broken and so have to assume that they're right. Beyond that I will readily admit that lowsec to me is a place I midpoint through or fly through on the way to somewhere else. It's not my area of expertise I'm not as familiar with its problems as I am with those in nullsec, and attempting to figure out those problems myself will probably be colored by what I am good at, just as any solutions I could propose myself would be. I really do hope we have a solid lowsec representative on CSM9 because it's a perspective we've missed this past year when looking at changes with gamewide impact.

Which means that I'm not the only person that says that its broken there and Mynanna has spoken with them and acknowledges that. And that post was last June so that's pretty recent.

Anyway, I think we have both made our points and it will just turn into a circular argument that would piss us both off. Thanks for the discussion Endie.

"I think its pretty troubling when a backyard decoration comes out swinging harder against Nazis than the President of the United States." Stephen Colbert
Sir T
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Reply #36 on: December 02, 2014, 09:09:29 AM

Alts of people who had access to the riches of Null and were not just starting out, yeah.

*edit* According to the Eve uni wiki, Faction warfare mainly takes place in the War Zones. which are a small part of the totality of low sec. I would be interested in seeing if FW actually extents and effects the rest of low sec as well. I honestly don't know. Certainly, if you just stick to the war zones your image of its effect will be inflated. Probably good fun regardless.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Factional_Warfare#War_zones
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 09:20:33 AM by Sir T »

"I think its pretty troubling when a backyard decoration comes out swinging harder against Nazis than the President of the United States." Stephen Colbert
Endie
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Reply #37 on: December 02, 2014, 09:37:40 AM

I was there when the Goons left Syndicate to join the Russians. I participated in Operation Revolver. Hell look up Himo Amasacia in the killboard and you will see my name on one of the earliest killmails on there.

So you are saying that your lowsec-is-broken stories are based on your 2005 experiences?

Quote

Anyway, I'll just quote Mynanna on the eve forums. Yeah I did do a little reading the last few days

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4299967#post4299967

Quote
Quote
What do you think about lowsec in its current state?


Thanks for that P
As to lowsec, I think a lot of people who live there say it's broken and so have to assume that they're right. Beyond that I will readily admit that lowsec to me is a place I midpoint through or fly through on the way to somewhere else. It's not my area of expertise I'm not as familiar with its problems as I am with those in nullsec, and attempting to figure out those problems myself will probably be colored by what I am good at, just as any solutions I could propose myself would be. I really do hope we have a solid lowsec representative on CSM9 because it's a perspective we've missed this past year when looking at changes with gamewide impact.

Which means that I'm not the only person that says that its broken there and Mynanna has spoken with them and acknowledges that. And that post was last June so that's pretty recent.

Mynnna saying "I don't know shit about lowsec" is not a hugely authoritative argument to wield.  Unlike Mynnna I do spend a decent amount of time in lowsec (it is where Bat Country lost a carrier recently!) so I'm not really likely to yield hugely on that one.

Quote
Anyway, I think we have both made our points and it will just turn into a circular argument that would piss us both off. Thanks for the discussion Endie.

When even you immediately post again I'm not going to observe that injunction, no.  However I would not hugely mind someone putting this huge derail into a "Himo reminisces about the middle of last decade in lowsec" thread.

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Endie
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Reply #38 on: December 02, 2014, 09:46:25 AM

Alts of people who had access to the riches of Null and were not just starting out, yeah.

*edit* According to the Eve uni wiki, Faction warfare mainly takes place in the War Zones. which are a small part of the totality of low sec.

Edit FW occurs in parts of nine regions.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 09:56:23 AM by Endie »

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Amarr HM
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Reply #39 on: December 02, 2014, 10:27:41 AM

Since I started back playing I've been splitting my time between lowsec and null sec. I can vouch for Bat Countrys' presence there, I've bumped into them a few times in Old Man Star.

Low sec has much improved as a place to go and find things to do since last decade. It still needs work mind. My new alliance is about to embark on a contract to knock out some poses and other infrastructure in a low sec region, I'm sure it will set our target back a fair bit logistically.

I would suggest to you (Sir T) or anyone, jump in a Tristan, head to low sec FW space and get in good fights.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Meester
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Reply #40 on: December 02, 2014, 02:11:54 PM

Its true that Myanna, says she is not an expert in low sec, "Beyond that I will readily admit that lowsec to me is a place I midpoint through or fly through on the way to somewhere else. It's not my area of expertise I'm not as familiar with its problems as I am with those in nullsec, and attempting to figure out those problems myself will probably be colored by what I am good at, just as any solutions I could propose myself would be".

Now I can tell you from my view of low sec as it IS these day, around the old man star [still gate-camped, sometimes] area as a faction warfare zone. Lots of fighting between the miltia and pirates, caldari miltia, small gang warfare and sometimes some solo fighting if you can find them. You get lp for basically going around in circles but it is the interaction with the various entities that is part of the reason for doing them too, you have fw missions [which I think have taken a hit, no-more stealth bombers everywhere, I find fw missions boring anyway], you have the customs offices which can be put up and extract the greater of resources that low sec planets have. The jump changes have made it so that null-sec entities cannot simply turn up and defend everytime someone puts their pos into reinforced, and there are also the benefits to fw systems that have been upgraded. All in all [the area around my faction warfare systems] are very active, sure low-sec does need some improvements especially in areas without fw activity or maybe we just need diversity of low-sec areas. I will also say that new players to faction warfare are invited INTO low-sec because the high sec stations [some of them anyway] which are fdu ones usually have an enemy faction warfare player waiting to kill an enemy militia player with their lp items. Nennamailia is the usual Gallente fw system these days in Black Rise [because the caldari cannot kick them out], though Im not sure if its as prominent as it used to be. Minmatar militia are currently getting rolled over by Amarr.

I don't care about null-sec systems and it seems that in the example of Myanna above, null-sec doesn't care all that much about low-sec. Not all null-sec is joined to low sec after all, Orvolle-PF-346, Keberz-HED-GP.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 09:28:21 PM by Meester »
Phildo
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Reply #41 on: December 02, 2014, 02:26:48 PM

Endie, as part of your platform, will you finally reveal the Delta Squad secret?
Endie
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Reply #42 on: December 02, 2014, 03:01:03 PM

Endie, as part of your platform, will you finally reveal the Delta Squad secret?

I will never reveal the Delta Sqad secret.

My blog: http://endie.net

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Endie
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Reply #43 on: December 02, 2014, 03:03:15 PM

Now I can tell you from my view of low sec as it IS these day, around the old man star [still gate-camped, sometimes] area as a faction warfare zone. Lots of fighting between the miltia and pirates, caldari miltia, small gang warfare and sometimes some solo fighting if you can find them. You get lp for basically going around in circles but it is the interaction with the various entities that is part of the reason for doing them too, you have fw missions [which I think have taken a hit, no-more stealth bombers everywhere, I find fw missions boring anyway], you have the customs offices which can be put up and extract the greater of resources that low sec planets have. The jump changes have made it so that null-sec entities cannot simply turn up and defend everytime someone puts their pos into reinforced, and there are also the benefits to fw systems that have been upgraded. All iin all [the area around my faction warfare systems] are very active, sure low-sec does need some improvements especially in areas without fw activity or maybe we just need diversity of low-sec areas. I will also say that new players to faction warfare are invited INTO low-sec because the high sec stations [some of them anyway] which are fdu ones usually have an enemy faction warfare player waiting to kill an enemy militia player with their lp items. Nennamailia is the usual Gallente fw system these days in Black Rise [because the caldari cannot kick them out], though Im not sure if its as prominent as it used to be. Minmatar militia are currently getting rolled over by Amarr.

I had forgotten the fact that lowsec is now seeing more and more capital fights due to the fact that PL et al can no longer be there in ten minutes to crash the party with 40 supers.  Another big plus of the recent changes.

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Brolan
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Reply #44 on: December 02, 2014, 08:53:04 PM

I've found the most exciting play is in wormhole space.  I just think there needs to be more of it because it's crowded in there right now.  It was more fun in the early days when it felt like you were exploring the unknown.  Now it feels like going down the aisle of your local Walmart while people shoot at you.
Meester
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Reply #45 on: December 02, 2014, 09:27:03 PM

I've found the most exciting play is in wormhole space.  I just think there needs to be more of it because it's crowded in there right now.  It was more fun in the early days when it felt like you were exploring the unknown.  Now it feels like going down the aisle of your local Walmart while people shoot at you.

Good thing CCP are adding more in 6 days eh? Ohhhhh, I see.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 09:32:46 PM by Meester »
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Reply #46 on: December 03, 2014, 12:08:06 AM

I wouldn't think nullsec alliances travelling into lowsec for shots and giggles is going to have the same perspective as the people who try and actually live there. Hell, who actually does live there? I always thought it was random gankers, gate campers, roaming gangs from everyone and few if zero miners/traders/builders. I didn't think you'd actually make money there beyond incursions and faction warfare.

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Amarr HM
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Reply #47 on: December 03, 2014, 05:43:57 AM

Aside from the ones you mentioned, there's quite a lot of people doing plexes, others running Mordus Legion sites and level 5 mission runners.

EDIT: There is also some decent moon goo in low sec apparently.

Low sec seems quite populated, I would say more so than null sec.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 05:53:39 AM by Amarr HM »

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #48 on: December 04, 2014, 12:58:47 AM

I certainly donít think that pockets of highsec out in nullsec are a good idea, either.  But what I think would be good would be additional pockets of NPC space in the east.  Innominate provided a heat map, recently, that showed the number of jumps from NPC space for every nullsec system, and in the south-east the minimum path length was huge, while the west is liberally strewn with NPC space (in Fountain, Delve, Pure Blind, Outer Ring and Venal that I can think of, offhand).
Went and looked that map up, I'll stick it here so nobody else has to:



Of course, this ignores jump highways, but the basic point stands, an NPC station completely changes a lot of the local logistics, and the complete lack of them in the southeast has certainly been a factor.  But I'm not sure changing that really addresses anything fundamental in improving the game, while taking away one of the big things that has led to different areas having a different character.

Frankly, if you really wanted to make things interesting, you could go back to some of the early ideas for player-created defenses for jump portals or even the player stations.  Maybe require some fuckstupid expensive planetary installation that would allow you to fortify the system.

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eldaec
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Reply #49 on: December 04, 2014, 05:02:22 AM

Lowsec is bad, it is known.
NPC nullsec is good, it is known.

But I have always struggled to spot any meaningful difference between the two, except physical (imaginary)  location. Are all the nullsec access and lowsec usefulness issues really about lowsec being in the wrong place?

On the original subject of voter fraud, can you still vote using the resub for plex system? I am currently winning at eve on all my accounts.

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Endie
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Reply #50 on: December 04, 2014, 04:26:37 PM

Things like bombs, bubbles and gate guns have tended to make for a difference between the two.

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Amarr HM
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Reply #51 on: December 04, 2014, 04:59:24 PM

Lot of hearsay in this thread.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Sir T
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Reply #52 on: December 05, 2014, 02:53:10 AM

Judge Judy does not approve.

*edit* There is also the loss of security status for the gankers. So They call you bad names while making you laugh with gate guns.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 03:17:43 AM by Sir T »

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Amarr HM
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Reply #53 on: December 05, 2014, 10:18:22 AM

I lost a 150m pod to a smartbombing Proteus yesterday, you don't see many (any) of those in null-sec, for good reason.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 02:52:47 PM by Amarr HM »

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Sir T
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Reply #54 on: December 05, 2014, 02:48:12 PM

That sucks dude :(

"I think its pretty troubling when a backyard decoration comes out swinging harder against Nazis than the President of the United States." Stephen Colbert
Amarr HM
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Reply #55 on: December 05, 2014, 02:52:30 PM

Nah it's cool. They're really common atm, I warped at range to all the previous gates it was the last one that got me..

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Sir T
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Reply #56 on: December 05, 2014, 03:32:57 PM

Reminds me that the incident that forced CCP to make Concord untankable was a bunch of BS's sitting around a gate in Yulai Smartbombing while being remote repped. Concord ignored remote reppers back then as well. They killed a few hundred ships and the Player outcry forced CCP to finally act.

"I think its pretty troubling when a backyard decoration comes out swinging harder against Nazis than the President of the United States." Stephen Colbert
Amarr HM
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Reply #57 on: December 05, 2014, 03:50:09 PM

Interesting I don't remember that, but it sounds like proper order, this is a tad more negatable.
Basically forces you to fly a ship through low sec which is an interesting dynamic. The previous time I did the run was in a trimarked punisher and nobody looked twice, that time I was too lazy to fit one out.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
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Reply #58 on: December 05, 2014, 03:51:47 PM

Didn't someone also do that with carriers back when you could have them in hi-sec?
Sir T
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Reply #59 on: December 06, 2014, 12:22:07 AM

The Smartbombing BS thing was way back in eve history. I don't know exactly when it happened, but I remember seeing a dev laughing that "you have to be tough to survive Concord" so it was after I joined the first time.

I don't remember carriers smartbombing in High sec but it may have just been something I didn't hear about. I do remember jackasses sitting on Jump gates in low sec in Supercarriers killing with impunity and Smartbombing a go go as nothing could kill them in low sec as there were no bubbles. The advent of infinite scram Hictors suddenly made all those vanish instantly, as you know, risk vs reward and they were only looking for good fights.

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Reply #60 on: December 06, 2014, 11:39:04 AM

We're still dancing around the central issue and avoiding the big topics here though. Before we can trust Endie with our votes we need to know if his campaign will be based around 40k, Dune or Lord of the Rings memes. Everything else is just noise until that is resolved.

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #61 on: December 06, 2014, 12:51:40 PM

Obviously it should be Big Lebowski memes.  They're just about due to come around again, anyway.


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Endie
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Reply #62 on: December 06, 2014, 03:16:35 PM

It's like looking in the mirror.

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Reply #63 on: December 06, 2014, 08:57:06 PM

We're still dancing around the central issue and avoiding the big topics here though. Before we can trust Endie with our votes we need to know if his campaign will be based around 40k, Dune or Lord of the Rings memes. Everything else is just noise until that is resolved.

Dune is only too old. LotR is forgotten for a bad Hobbit movies coming out now. GW is almost dead, but 40K isn't quite dead yet.

I'd suggest Guardians of the Galaxy maybe?

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
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Reply #64 on: December 07, 2014, 02:44:09 AM


Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
Meester
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Reply #65 on: December 08, 2014, 03:58:50 PM

Oh oh better post something serious regarding CSM views.

What is your view on capital ships?
I personally feel there should be more isk sinks, do you?
How do you feel about Incarna/CQ?
I am bummed Incarna was not fully fleshed out [is kept in life support atm], could you reel some kind of information regarding its future from CCP?
Tech 2 Logi frigates, make it so No 1?
Is sovereignty meaningful in your opinion?
Module tiericide is in the works though many of the cool eve names have disappeared from some of the modules, could you convince CCP to continue its module tiericide efforts while bringing back the cool names?
Destructible outposts/multiple outposts per system should be done yes? Outpost rebalance to make them all viable?
CCPs efforts to integrate DUST/Legion/Valkyrie into eve, they are not really viable atm are they? The technology isn't really there for them to do that?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 04:00:32 PM by Meester »
Endie
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Reply #66 on: December 09, 2014, 08:02:01 AM

Oh oh better post something serious regarding CSM views.

What is your view on capital ships?

That's a rather broad question.  They seem in a fine place to me right now, but CCP need to deal with their bumping mechanics.  I'd do that by expanding the radius around the gate that they spawn into on jump-in: a large fleet will be very spread out, which is a weakness, but you won't get time-consuming (and annoying) bumps on every gate.  Swings and roundabouts.


Quote
I personally feel there should be more isk sinks, do you?

I've not seen any sign of real inflation that isn't accounted for by system-induced increased mineral and transport costs and the changes to refining.  Why do you feel more isk sinks are needed?

Quote
How do you feel about Incarna/CQ?

I am bummed Incarna was not fully fleshed out [is kept in life support atm], could you reel some kind of information regarding its future from CCP?

I think they should have found a reason to do it first.  Eve is a year and a bit behind where it should be as a result of it.  I have nothing against them in principle but only as part of what would essentially be another game.  I like CCP's "entire Sci Fi universe idea, but one room and a locked door is not it.

As a CSM I would be covered by NDA so I imagine that more info on that whole fandango won't be forthcoming any time soon.

Quote
Tech 2 Logi frigates, make it so No 1?

I would love to see T2 logi and command frigates.

Quote
Is sovereignty meaningful in your opinion?

Meaningful in that virtually every piece of marketing collateral CCP has comes from nullsec but the returns on it are insufficient.

Quote
Module tiericide is in the works though many of the cool eve names have disappeared from some of the modules, could you convince CCP to continue its module tiericide efforts while bringing back the cool names?

The names were flavourful while also obfuscating function and confusing newer players.  I think CCP are right to have placed greater emphasis on clarity than obscurity.

Quote
Destructible outposts/multiple outposts per system should be done yes? Outpost rebalance to make them all viable?

I think that CCP should bring in destructable outposts, and I am confident that they will.  I also believe that they will risk losing a lot of players permanently as a result because it will vastly increase the risks of living in nullsec without, I fear, any compensatory buff.

Quote
CCPs efforts to integrate DUST/Legion/Valkyrie into eve, they are not really viable atm are they? The technology isn't really there for them to do that?

I have never played Dust and so am no expert.  I'd quite like increased chaos and complexity in the universe so I would like CCP to succeed with this, and I do not believe that the stumbling blocks will be technical in nature, but I am pessimistic purely on the basis that FPS players have rarely demonstrated great loyalty to any aging game in any meaningful numbers.

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Phildo
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Reply #67 on: December 09, 2014, 11:00:59 AM

I think that CCP should bring in destructable outposts, and I am confident that they will.  I also believe that they will risk losing a lot of players permanently as a result because it will vastly increase the risks of living in nullsec without, I fear, any compensatory buff.

Not to mention people who want to resub after a few years, only to find that they've lost billions in assets to dead outposts while they were away. I've probably got 50 billion worth of random stuff stashed across nullsec that I would want to recover if/when I decide to resub, and losing that while I've been away would be fairly upsetting.
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Reply #68 on: December 09, 2014, 11:15:53 AM

Couldn't it "magically" move a random selection of your crap to Jita or somesuch when the outpost goes poof? Or is that too carebear?

- Viin
Amarr HM
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Reply #69 on: December 09, 2014, 11:19:34 AM

That's a good point actually, it could act as a deterrent to older players wanting to resub. But then part of me also thinks that this is the "Eve way" and I'm generally all for destructible outposts.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
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