This is the shittiest upcoming Holiday Season in the history of gaming.

[Jeff Kelly]

I hope you're right.  The  current indie boom gave us so many great titles. I've seen the opposite time and time again though. Even during the 8 bit days it was indie first and then pretty much publisher funded later as production values increased teams got bigger and expectations of customers got higher.

[Malakili]

but at the same time I am sure that our age and our experience are working against us and our ability to have fun with videogames. Not making it impossible, but making it harder. We have played sooo many things that we carry around a fatigue for all genres, and more often than in the past we pass on a given game as soon as we read that ONE feature is not what we wanted it to be, or one element of the interface is not where we'd prefer it, or the tutorial isn't designed specifically for our unique mind map. Or at least this is a behaviour that I see prevalent among the people I know, and with myself. It's certainly and rightfully less patience for bullshit, but not just that. We are flooded, overserved, overburdened.

I dunno.  I mean Quake 3 is STILL the best pure deathmatch game available. CounterStrike: GO is still the best of it's subgenre.  TF2 is still the best of its kind.  You can argue DOTA 2 vs. LoL all you want, but DOTA 2 - being almost a copy of DOTA 1 is at least arguably still the best of its genre.  We are getting plenty of good, solid games these days.  But few seem to rank in that all-time good category.  Now, obviously few games in general achieve that kind of status. But you'd think we'd at least see some giving those classics a run for their money.  It almost never happens.  And I think Jeff is right - it is because that kind of game doesn't pay nearly as well as a flashy single player campaign with a new DLC every 3 months, a game of the year edition with all of it bundled at the end of its cycle and then pumping out another one.

[pxib]

I can't be bothered to buy and play AAA games anymore. The impressive part of them isn't the gameplay, it's the spectacle... and I can see that by watching people play the game on Youtube. The last AAA title I bought was Portal 2, because I loved Portal and I like puzzles. Cover-based FPS leaves me cold and it's 99% of the AAA market. Can the experience of actually playing a game provide a depth of feeling and investment in a narrative? Sure. Who is putting energy into really exercising that aspect of game design anymore?

Last of Us was an incredible movie bolted onto a viscerally tuned but ultimately pretty standard cover-based sneaking/shooting gallery.

Why would I want my movie interrupted with a frustrating murder simulator?

Khaldun is right: I'm not the target audience, and the sales numbers show that the target audience is happy. Ultimately the expensive end of the game industry is well served to ignore my opinons.

[Malakili]

I can't be bothered to buy and play AAA games anymore. The impressive part of them isn't the gameplay, it's the spectacle... and I can see that by watching people play the game on Youtube. The last AAA title I bought was Portal 2, because I loved Portal and I like puzzles. Cover-based FPS leaves me cold and it's 99% of the AAA market. Can the experience of actually playing a game provide a depth of feeling and investment in a narrative? Sure. Who is putting energy into really exercising that aspect of game design anymore?

Last of Us was an incredible movie bolted onto a viscerally tuned but ultimately pretty standard cover-based sneaking/shooting gallery.

Why would I want my movie interrupted with a frustrating murder simulator?

Khaldun is right: I'm not the target audience, and the sales numbers show that the target audience is happy. Ultimately the expensive end of the game industry is well served to ignore my opinons.

This is something I've noticed as well, and why I almost never bother with single player games anymore.  When the experience of watching your game is almost identical to the experience of PLAYING your game, you've made a terrible game.

[Khaldun]

I've waited for someone to bring that old familiar friend 'you're all just a bunch of jaded fucks' to the discussion and I was not disappointed. You mention movies. Interestingly enough movies and games share some of the issues.

I'm trying to decide what it means when you're a jaded fuck about being called a jaded fuck.

[Rasix]

I'm getting the one game I want this holiday season.  It'll take forever to complete.  I'm happy. 

[Jeff Kelly]

I'm trying to decide what it means when you're a jaded fuck about being called a jaded fuck.

I won't even disagree with you that I'm a jaded old fuck - because I am.

At the same time my old jaded self is seeing lots and lots of innovation and quite a few gems each year in other types of media, film, literature, music. Compared to that though the indie games revolution is just the niche inside a niche and not enough for me to not get a tad frustrated about cover and/or stealth based murder simulators (now with your favorite gears of war inspired online mode) and "this is really video poker but we call it free to play" experiences so utterly dominating the market right now.

Especially when they eat up R&D budgets a medium sized tech company would kill for.

[Ingmar]

Doing the same five maps over and over and over again just for the illusion of progression while preteen scumbags scream insults at me over voice chat  is not what I would consider to be fun.

I can count on one hand the number of times I ever heard anyone talk *at all* in ME3 multiplayer, let alone do so abusively. And we're talking probably a thousand matches give or take. (EDIT: OK that might be an exaggeration. Hundreds, though.)

[Yegolev]

So... what is the consensus so far?
Dragon Age: LEGO Hair
Captain Toad
Amiibo
??

[Fabricated]

Oh yeah, I know this is a burn on those of us who kickstarted Hex or well anything for that matter (guilty myself, several times) but can we make it a rule of thumb to not buy early access or alpha games?

We can call it the "Doublefine Rule".

[schild]

Oh yeah, I know this is a burn on those of us who kickstarted Hex or well anything for that matter (guilty myself, several times) but can we make it a rule of thumb to not buy early access or alpha games?

We can call it the "Doublefine Rule".

But "released" games may as well be early access half the time anyway. Pretty sure they're gonna have to rewrite the entire script for Dragon Age because apparently it's fucking horrific.

[Nebu]

I'm in an alpha for a game right now and it feels more like an early beta.  Is 'alpha' the new 'beta'?  Seems beta is now little more than a polish and marketing campaign for release rather than an actual beta test. 

[Fabricated]

Oh yeah, I know this is a burn on those of us who kickstarted Hex or well anything for that matter (guilty myself, several times) but can we make it a rule of thumb to not buy early access or alpha games?

We can call it the "Doublefine Rule".

But "released" games may as well be early access half the time anyway. Pretty sure they're gonna have to rewrite the entire script for Dragon Age because apparently it's fucking horrific.

I sorta view that as the right and just punishment for buying a post-ME3 Bioware game. If you did, you really should know better.

[Phildo]

I have low expectations for it, but as long as it lets me make numbers bigger, it'll do for now.

On a whim, I decided to replay Mass Effect 3 last week and boy did I not miss it.  Hopefully Dragon Age 3 doesn't suffer quite so terribly from sequilitis.

[HaemishM]

This Christmas season is probably the shittiest holiday season because we have 3 new consoles in an entirely new console generation and it is completely and utterly bereft of ideas. These 3 systems have been out for over a year, and I have yet to see 1 game released that I had to go out and buy. Persona 5 is about the only thing that might make me consider it and even then, I'm not sure I'll go buy a new system for it.

Meanwhile, on my PC I have a fuckload of games to play, none of which are "new" or that I paid full price for and I am damned happy about that. The last game I paid full price for was X-COM. The rest, including the DLC? I waited for that shit to go on sale and bought it at prices that fit my budget and more importantly, that I thought were more accurate prices. $50 for a game is still just fucking nuts and $60? Fuck you. I have paid full price for the BF4 expansions but other than that, most of the DLC I have bought has been at 50-75% off because I'm fucking cheap. And as a result, there are over 100 unplayed games in my Steam Library so that I don't have to pay full price for shit again.

That isn't to say there aren't good games coming out but there isn't anything I'm going to pay full price for (maybe the yearly Football Manager games but I don't mind paying for that). But of the games I've put tons of time into this year, some are repetitive (Football Manager 2014 - over 100 hours, BF4 - over 200 hours) and some are emergent (Crusader Kings II - and talk about the kings of pimping out nickel and dime DLC but I've still spent over 75 hours on that game, or State of Decay). And the indie games have provided some good fun too - Blackguards being the one I'm loving right now.

Gaming is fine if you don't have to buy every goddamn thing that comes out the minute it comes out. Of course, the industry is built on you doing so that it may be fucked, but it was probably asking for it.

[Kail]

I'm in an alpha for a game right now and it feels more like an early beta.  Is 'alpha' the new 'beta'?  Seems beta is now little more than a polish and marketing campaign for release rather than an actual beta test. 

I think terms like "alpha" and "beta" are losing their meaning with all the early releases.  Heroes of the Storm is still in "alpha" despite being (mostly) complete and playable minus some community features and draft mode (AFAIK).  Something like Kinetic Void released in "beta" on Early Access and featured no gameplay or mechanics, just the ability to glom various meshes together and watch it float around in the void.

[rk47]

I have low expectations for it, but as long as it lets me make numbers bigger, it'll do for now.

On a whim, I decided to replay Mass Effect 3 last week and boy did I not miss it.  Hopefully Dragon Age 3 doesn't suffer quite so terribly from sequilitis.

Hahaahaha.
I'm sorry. :(

[Malakili]

I'm in an alpha for a game right now and it feels more like an early beta.  Is 'alpha' the new 'beta'?  Seems beta is now little more than a polish and marketing campaign for release rather than an actual beta test. 

Alpha is the new beta.  Beta is the new Open Beta.  Open Beta is the new release.  Release is the new "Wow you started playing this game really late"

[K9]

There's not much coming up, but if I look back at all the AAA titles I bought over the past few years I'd say I've been happy with the majority of them. I'm having fun pootling about in Destiny at the moment, I loved the shit out of Skyrim and Deus Ex:HR.

[Megrim]

Sunless Sea

BF4 expansion

um...

yea.

[Falconeer]

I am absolutely all over Sunless Sea. I didn't include it in my list because it's early access. But yes, totally.

[schild]

I picked up Sunless Sea, I just couldn't be bothered to read that much when I got it.

[Megrim]

I should do a thing for the front page, for it. It really is quite good; though I am not sold on the new combat system.

[Trippy]

This is a horrible Holiday Season for games unless you have a Nintendo console

The PS4 is especially bad with no exclusive games coming out between now and the end of the year. Little Big Planet 3 is the big Sony-exclusive coming out this week but it's on both the PS3 and PS4. The last PS4 exclusive was the poorly received Drive Club back in October. Sony is lucky 3rd party games play better on the PS4 and they are basically resting on their laurels right now.

[Margalis]

What I've noticed though is that a lot of the talk about making games has shifted from how to make fun and engaging games to how to engage the player for as long as possible.

This is definitely true. It's depressing to read Gamasutra or think about GDC. (I don't even bother going to GDC anymore, it's pointless) It seems that the vast majority of game developers are up their own asses with monetization, retention, all their fucking acronyms (ARPU etc), marketing, etc. There's very little interest in gameplay or the technical side of making games. If you find 10 articles ostensibly about making games 9 of them are actually about how to market a game, how to suck up to people on Twitter for coverage, etc, and one out of the 10 will have anything at all to do with actual game content.

Things like IGF and Indiecade have largely turned into lifestyle events - the actual games barely matter, it's more an excuse for white people with blue streaks in their hair to circle jerk each other about how meaningful their puzzle platformer or basic adventure game is.

AAA game developers have completely shit the bed this fall. A lot of their games just flat out don't work.

[schild]

What I've noticed though is that a lot of the talk about making games has shifted from how to make fun and engaging games to how to engage the player for as long as possible.

This is definitely true. It's depressing to read Gamasutra or think about GDC. (I don't even bother going to GDC anymore, it's pointless) It seems that the vast majority of game developers are up their own asses with monetization, retention, all their fucking acronyms (ARPU etc), marketing, etc. There's very little interest in gameplay or the technical side of making games. If you find 10 articles ostensibly about making games 9 of them are actually about how to market a game, how to suck up to people on Twitter for coverage, etc, and one out of the 10 will have anything at all to do with actual game content.

Things like IGF and Indiecade have largely turned into lifestyle events - the actual games barely matter, it's more an excuse for white people with blue streaks in their hair to circle jerk each other about how meaningful their puzzle platformer or basic adventure game is.

AAA game developers have completely shit the bed this fall. A lot of their games just flat out don't work.

Actually, it's about ethics in games journalism.

[Maven]

Things like IGF and Indiecade have largely turned into lifestyle events - the actual games barely matter, it's more an excuse for white people with blue streaks in their hair to circle jerk each other about how meaningful their puzzle platformer or basic adventure game is.

That brought a tear of joy to my eye. Though I'd date one of those people. Blue streaks are cool.

Ethics in Games Journalism? Hah. Don't forget social Justice from people who can't believe human beings would act in a way that doesn't line up with their principles.

[Megrim]

Things like IGF and Indiecade have largely turned into lifestyle events - the actual games barely matter, it's more an excuse for white people with blue streaks in their hair to circle jerk each other about how meaningful their puzzle platformer or basic adventure game is.

That brought a tear of joy to my eye. Though I'd date one of those people. Blue streaks are cool.

Ethics in Games Journalism? Hah. Don't forget social Justice from people who can't believe human beings would act in a way that doesn't line up with their principles.

HMMMMMMMM

[Maven]

 

[Jeff Kelly]

Bayonetta 2 is a pretty good example about the current state of games publishing.

When they announced that it would be a Wii U exclusive game they got asked why they chose Nintendo's platform for Bayonetta 2. Their answer was that Nintendo was the only publisher interested in the game at all and the only one willing to fund it. ("Nintendo were the only ones willing to 'white knight' the project") They'd have gladly made a XBox or PS4 version but no publisher - not even Microsoft or Sony - were interested in the game and so they went with Nintendo. Which is odd if you think about it. Bayonetta was well received and sold decently enough. According to the latest reliable numbers I could find Bayonetta sold 1.4 million copies (as of April 2010) and was - according to Platinum Games' president - "their best selling title"

Funding Bayonetta 2 wouldn't have broken the bank because it is certainly not on a AAA 100+ million dollar budget (even though Platinum considers it to be AAA I reckon that their dev budget is much smaller). It would have made back its investment eventually and both Microsoft and Sony could need another console exclusive game anyway. Even if Bayonetta wouldn't have sold an insane amount of copies it would certainly be enough to be profitable so I'd have expected it to be a no brainer to publish it.

Yet only Nintendo did. Even though Bayonetta goes against Nintendo's branding of the Wii and Wii U to an extend.

This means that even though a profitable first installment was already there that proved that the game had a large enough audience to warrant a second game in the series it didn't get funded. Probably because it 'only' sold 1.4 million copies and therefore wasn't profitable enough for publishers to bother as everyone is hellbent on going after thew 5 million+ copies blockbuster AAA market.

[Falconeer]

Bayonetta 2 is a pretty good example about the current state of games publishing.

When they announced that it would be a Wii U exclusive game they got asked why they chose Nintendo's platform for Bayonetta 2. Their answer was that Nintendo was the only publisher interested in the game at all and the only one willing to fund it. ("Nintendo were the only ones willing to 'white knight' the project") They'd have gladly made a XBox or PS4 version but no publisher - not even Microsoft or Sony - were interested in the game and so they went with Nintendo. Which is odd if you think about it. Bayonetta was well received and sold decently enough. According to the latest reliable numbers I could find Bayonetta sold 1.4 million copies (as of April 2010) and was - according to Platinum Games' president - "their best selling title"

Funding Bayonetta 2 wouldn't have broken the bank because it is certainly not on a AAA 100+ million dollar budget (even though Platinum considers it to be AAA I reckon that their dev budget is much smaller). It would have made back its investment eventually and both Microsoft and Sony could need another console exclusive game anyway. Even if Bayonetta wouldn't have sold an insane amount of copies it would certainly be enough to be profitable so I'd have expected it to be a no brainer to publish it.

Yet only Nintendo did. Even though Bayonetta goes against Nintendo's branding of the Wii and Wii U to an extend.

This means that even though a profitable first installment was already there that proved that the game had a large enough audience to warrant a second game in the series it didn't get funded. Probably because it 'only' sold 1.4 million copies and therefore wasn't profitable enough for publishers to bother as everyone is hellbent on going after thew 5 million+ copies blockbuster AAA market.

I don't think this had anything to do with money though, or the quality of the product. In the 4 years that separate Bayonetta from Bayonetta 2 a lot of things happened, and clearly Microsoft and Sony didn't want to be associated with what is seen as a game plagued with hypersexualization issues. Coming 2012/3 when they got offered tto back this project, they probably thought "we can do without more negative headlines".

[Yegolev]

I might have missed a headline or two but I don't think that was it at all.

[MournelitheCalix]

This war of mine is worth looking into

[Jeff Kelly]

clearly Microsoft and Sony didn't want to be associated with what is seen as a game plagued with hypersexualization issues. Coming 2012/3 when they got offered tto back this project, they probably thought "we can do without more negative headlines".

You think that a business that regularly greenlights shit like Road to Hell: Retribution and is completely fine with being morally bankrupt, as long as shit sells, is in any way shape or form concerned about a tempest in a teacup debate like "hypersexualization" in Bayonetta?

A business in which Duke Nukem Forever's mysoginistic bullshit attitude not only exists but can be considered mainstream? A business which happily defends the artistic merits of shit like the "no russian" mission from MW 2? The business that gave us Dead or Alive's bouncy boob physics? Concerned about a moral issue?

I seriously doubt that. I mean come on.

[rk47]

Yes yesssss.. let the rage consume you. I always love eating KFC when I'm angry.