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Author Topic: Overwatch  (Read 235224 times)
Kail
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Reply #700 on: July 14, 2016, 10:59:53 PM

Next I hope they put in a mode where you can't change your character, like in MOBA's.  You made your choice assholes, now live with it!

That was their weekly brawl mode last week, I believe

edit: nope, it's this week, my bad
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 11:04:29 PM by Kail »
Koyasha
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Reply #701 on: July 15, 2016, 03:12:32 AM

Rumour is that they realized two Tracers (if not more) are just too hard to counter. Before you just jump in with your probably weightless (I'm sorry) opinion, read around a bit about the recent two-Tracers meta in the pro scene.
a large amount of it was probably generally driven by the mass switch/stack teams would do in overtime that also led to the overtime spawn changes and overtime decay rate. mass tracers and lucios and the occasional winston  would just keep brazenly berserking the cap point from spawn in an endless procession of overtime resets.
I still don't like it, but if these are the reasons for it, I can understand it, at least.  I do know that a really good tracer basically has no solid counter except someone that aims incredibly well, and on top of that she does crazy huge damage when she aims well at the right engagement distance.  And I can see using a ton of the fast characters to hold overtime pretty much infinitely.

As for communicating with team in competitive...sure, in theory.  But you can queue up for it in less than a full group, and the reality is that while there might be a little coordination, there's often not enough willingness to change whatever needs to be changed.  It's not ideal, but they do seem to want people to still solo queue for competitive, which means they can't ignore the reality of what it means to be in competitive solo queue.  If they said 'this is for groups only', then fair enough, but as long as solo queue is something they want you to do, they should be considering the reality of it.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
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Merusk
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Reply #702 on: July 15, 2016, 04:13:01 PM

Got myself suspended from Competitive. After the 5th straight loss, fuck this system of always going to the shit side and losing as support because your team sucks.  Started dropping from teams which wouldn't pick a tank or had two Soldier 76 or a Tjborn on Attack. Oh well!

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Samprimary
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Reply #703 on: July 17, 2016, 08:45:22 PM

I also wish people would stop...stop shooting when Reindhardt puts his shield up. No no no, unless you really CAN hit someone else keep shooting that fucking shield because when it breaks he's dead meat.

correct on this. when he is preventing other targets of opportunity from being vulnerable or is otherwise the only available target, blast that shield to bits. certain heroes are just especially dangerous to reinhart shields because it's so large it's going to suck up all the spread: torbjorn shotgun blasts do insane damage, reaper even at longer range hits the whole spread, pharah missiles all count as direct hits (150 damage each), everyone should pile on and eat that shield forever.
Sophismata
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Reply #704 on: July 17, 2016, 10:44:19 PM

One of the things that frustrates me the most is when nobody plays support, so I suck it up and play it. Then everyone on the team runs around individually, doesn't protect me, and no single player is good enough to be worth following around and healing.

Coming from experience, if you're in a game with idiots and no one picks a support, then neither should you. You need a playmaker to carry games like that and relying on supporting a bad team will cause you more frustration than just picking someone you're good with and having at it.

I'm not saying that, in general, you shouldn't fill in roles that aren't populated… just that if it's one of "those games" then you won't really gain anything by biting the bullet, so to speak.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Merusk
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Reply #705 on: July 18, 2016, 05:29:50 AM

Yeah, especially as support where you're extra squishy. It's one thing to pick-up a tank slot because no other MFer will, as Support it's just an exercise in running back from spawn.

Had a new one yesterday. Someone bitched at me for switching healer-support 3 times.  Mercy wasn't doing anything because everyone spread-out and hit behind walls.  So I witched to Zen, but they kept oneshotting me because their sniper and solider 76 were decent, so off to Lucio it was.  After the inevitable loss, one of the jackasses blames me for switching three times. Meanwhile he'd played Genjii the whole time and had was at spawn as often as I was.

Yeah.

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Sir T
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Reply #706 on: July 18, 2016, 06:01:02 AM

Well dude, it can't be that HE sucks becasue he's fantastic.

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Merusk
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Reply #707 on: July 18, 2016, 07:01:26 AM

Yeah. I got a laugh from my team when, after losing the second round, he said "You all suck."  My response was, "Yeah, if ONLY there were a system that could rate how much better than us you are.. oh wait!"

He dropped match after that. Worth it.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Falconeer
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Reply #708 on: July 18, 2016, 07:07:33 AM

Same thing happened to me last night. The kick? The guy yelling at everyone else was Rank 34 and... LEVEL 281. I had to tell him: "Do you realize how bad you are, being Rank 34 (lower than pretty much everyone else in the team) after having invested about 400 hours in this game?" It doesn't shut them up, but I know it burns them bad.

Venkman
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Reply #709 on: July 18, 2016, 04:06:16 PM

Hmm, so far I haven't had any bad voice experiences. But I'm playing a match or two a night at most currently.

I'm stalling on the competitive ranking thing because, as usual, I don't have the time to dedicate. At the same time, the quality of Quick Plays has (ironically?) improved for me. Win or lose, I really don't care, as long as it wasn't a steamroll.

And yea, as Sophismata said, if you're in a PUG of loaners, don't invest in support. It won't matter in the end, but it will make you frustrated. Same rules as ever really. PUGs are decades older than this game, but the problem is a social condition not unique to Overwatch smiley
Falconeer
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Reply #710 on: July 19, 2016, 11:44:12 AM

Ana is live. So are some changes to D.va, and a few other characters.

Merusk
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Reply #711 on: July 19, 2016, 11:48:40 AM

How is Anna? I'm tempted to try her but my aim is shit so snipe healing probably won't work. Is it a significant boost or do you need to chain gun people to keep them alive. 

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Soulflame
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Reply #712 on: July 19, 2016, 12:39:02 PM

The game is very forgiving when heal sniping, so keep that in mind.  You just have to have the player in the larger reticle.
Falconeer
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Reply #713 on: July 19, 2016, 12:58:59 PM

Interesting thing about her. She can't do headshots. No matter where she hits, it's the same damage (or heal).

MrHat
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Reply #714 on: July 19, 2016, 01:06:24 PM

Interesting thing about her. She can't do headshots. No matter where she hits, it's the same damage (or heal).

Does scope do more damage? Seems like you should just noscope.
Job601
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Reply #715 on: July 19, 2016, 01:12:44 PM


Does scope do more damage? Seems like you should just noscope.

I haven't played her yet, but noscope is supposed to be a projectile while scope is hitscan, so scope should be easier to hit.
Falconeer
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Reply #716 on: July 19, 2016, 01:15:18 PM

Damage doesn't change. Everything else, like Job said.

Khaldun
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Reply #717 on: July 19, 2016, 01:41:49 PM

I just feel with these games that if I don't jump in right away, there's no point, because even a month later, people are going to be complete assholes if you're not someone who has been playing for a whole month.
Malakili
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Reply #718 on: July 19, 2016, 01:57:54 PM

Heck, I just didn't play much for a couple weeks because I was busy with other things and playing Hex in the time I did have instead and I've already been getting grief even in quick match the last two nights because I'm slightly out of practice.  I think this game is *very* good, but the community has gotten progressively worse since release to the point where I don't really look forward to logging in now.
Merusk
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Reply #719 on: July 19, 2016, 02:06:06 PM

Interesting thing about her. She can't do headshots. No matter where she hits, it's the same damage (or heal).

OMG it's like they knew players who suck go for support roles. That's, in all honesty, more than I could have hoped for.  I can't headshot for shit in games. I play at too-high resolution and too-high a mouse speed. I always shoot past the target.

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KallDrexx
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Reply #720 on: July 19, 2016, 03:03:45 PM

I just feel with these games that if I don't jump in right away, there's no point, because even a month later, people are going to be complete assholes if you're not someone who has been playing for a whole month.


Just turn team chat off and ignore textual chat.  Problem solved.
Falconeer
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Reply #721 on: July 19, 2016, 03:51:49 PM

For real. I keep saying this. Why do you care about others?

Kail
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Reply #722 on: July 20, 2016, 12:48:31 AM

I can't play her for shit, maybe that's just because I suck at snipers in general.  Most healers don't really have to aim, and most snipers don't really have to be picky, but Ana has to pick that one target out of the jumble and then land a shot on them.  Playing her offensively I run in to the problem that teammates can block her shots (even at full health, as far as I can tell) and playing her defensively she's probably the most difficult support in the game right now, at least for me.
Falconeer
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Reply #723 on: July 20, 2016, 01:51:10 AM

I am having a hard time with her so far, but I am confident it's a matter of understanding her timing and her positioning which so far I haven't figured out really. I also agree she's harder than it seems (actually, Kaplan just said in the dev vlog that she is considered really hard to play by design), if anything because without good aiming and timing her heals are negligible, and while she tries to do all that work she is very easy to kill. Her "sleep" is invaluable though being able to stop almost every enemy Ultimate in a split second. But that requires very good aim and reaction time too.

Koyasha
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Reply #724 on: July 20, 2016, 03:09:53 AM

I think she could use at least one simple buff: make her shots ignore full-health allies.  I hate it when someone's running around in front of me and blocks the shot toward the person that really needs healing right now, and they're already full-health so they don't even benefit.

Ultimately, almost all her abilities seem like they require good team coordination to make use of.  People not blocking her from shooting other allies.  People not waking up her sleep targets.  People taking advantage when she fires her ult.  People taking advantage when she uses her grenade to prevent an enemy from healing.  People taking advantage when she uses her healing grenade by popping their own heals if the grenade doesn't full-heal them - and by the way, her grenade plus Soldier 76s biotic field is almost a mini Zenyatta ult, it seems.  There's basically nothing she does that doesn't rely on teammates doing the right thing, though, or at least not doing the wrong thing.

Also, shooting allies that aren't trying to actively avoid me feels weird.  Not quite like shooting enemies.  I feel like I have a harder time predicting where they're going to be because their goal is different.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
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Reply #725 on: July 20, 2016, 09:59:53 AM

Yeah, tried playing once or twice on Defense and Attack and those were the issues I saw. It was by and large easier to have a Lucio and a Newly-Buffed Zenyatta if you didn't want to Mercy it up down in the trenches.

She'll be powerful, but she's got some powerful drawbacks. She's not a character that's going to be worth a damn in PUGs with how disorganized the teams are. Being in back also means being vulnerable and she doesn't have the damaging power and escape abilities of the actual snipers.

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Koyasha
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Reply #726 on: July 20, 2016, 10:15:32 AM

Admittedly, that sleep dart is an awesome escape ability, assuming you land it.  Put 'em to sleep for pleeenty long enough to get away.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
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Reply #727 on: July 20, 2016, 12:04:11 PM

I haven't hat it drop anyone for more than a second. Even if I was alone with them, I'd hit them, they'd fall then hop right back up. Is it supposed to last longer? 

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Kail
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Reply #728 on: July 20, 2016, 01:24:39 PM

I think she could use at least one simple buff: make her shots ignore full-health allies.  I hate it when someone's running around in front of me and blocks the shot toward the person that really needs healing right now, and they're already full-health so they don't even benefit.

I'd vote to just make it pass through allies completely, all the time.  Maybe nerf the numbers to keep her balanced, but it is SUPER aggravating trying to land a heal on the tank, in the front, with a sniper rifle from the back, when everyone on the team can block you. 
Malakili
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Reply #729 on: July 20, 2016, 06:56:07 PM

Sometimes I feel like this game would be better without the ultimates. Huge swingy abilities that you get to use by pressing one button just isn't really doing it for me lately. I think I'm done with this for a while. Shame really, I had very high hopes.
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Reply #730 on: July 20, 2016, 11:28:53 PM

I agree. Ultimates are there to follow Blizzard's mantra which is "Everyone is OP", but a lot of matches boil down to do nothing for a minute, regroup, and then walk in on the objective with all your team Ultimate's charged to unleash them at the same time, knowing that the enemy team is gonna do exactly the same thing. Not that awesome.

Koyasha
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Reply #731 on: July 21, 2016, 12:04:35 AM

I haven't hat it drop anyone for more than a second. Even if I was alone with them, I'd hit them, they'd fall then hop right back up. Is it supposed to last longer? 
If they don't take any damage, it drops them for 5 seconds, I believe it is.  Reinhardt kept chasing me in a game earlier, I'd just duck around the corner, sleep him, and run off to keep fighting, and he would be out of it for several seconds.  Won the game that way in fact; I went in alone because my team hung back when I thought they were going, Reinhardt saw me and came after me cause I was alone, I ducked back around the corner and slept him, and that's about when my team charged in....so we managed to mop up a couple enemies while Reinhardt was sleeping and unable to protect them.  By the time he was up and coming at us again, we severely outnumbered him.

Of course, in a normal fight that doesn't allow me to draw someone off and sleep them out of the line of fire, they'd just hop back up because someone would wake them, unless the team is good at working with Ana.
I think she could use at least one simple buff: make her shots ignore full-health allies.  I hate it when someone's running around in front of me and blocks the shot toward the person that really needs healing right now, and they're already full-health so they don't even benefit.

I'd vote to just make it pass through allies completely, all the time.  Maybe nerf the numbers to keep her balanced, but it is SUPER aggravating trying to land a heal on the tank, in the front, with a sniper rifle from the back, when everyone on the team can block you. 
Umm, it has to hit allies in order to heal them, unless you're suggesting it could pass through allies and heal multiple allies with one shot?  If that was the case, it would be crazy powerful all the time; you could just shoot into big brawls, healing and damaging simultaneously for tons of health swing.  The only way to nerf the numbers and keep that balanced would be to make her effectively useless at healing single targets; she'd have to be firing through two or more allies in order to output decent heals.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
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Reply #732 on: July 21, 2016, 12:10:23 AM

If there is some way to counter an ult I don't mind quite as much; people rage about Reaper a lot, but there's at least a bunch of counters to it.
Stuff like Zarya + Tracer (or Hanzo), Zenyatta, Reinhart + anything is just an I-win button.
Falconeer
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Reply #733 on: July 21, 2016, 01:20:20 AM

I think Malakili and I are not complaining about single Ults, but at how the game becomes a matter of saving your team 6 Ults for a big final brawl while the opposing team is saving their 6 Ults to counter that*. Sounds reasonable in theory (see MOBAs), but it's not that cool in practice when it becomes a bit of a mandatory pattern.


* it's a bit jarring that in a skill-based game, the most impactful action in the whole game is the one that requires the least skill. Ultimates are usually just a matter of pressing Q, and why the Play of the Games are always shit. I think Blizzard should make it so in order for an action to qualify as PotG there has to be no Ults in it.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 02:15:43 AM by Falconeer »

KallDrexx
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Reply #734 on: July 21, 2016, 05:45:10 AM

I think I'm done with the game too, it seems to be very quickly losing the fun of being a hop on/hop off game for me. 
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