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Author Topic: Overwatch  (Read 235184 times)
Sophismata
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Reply #315 on: May 10, 2016, 09:05:08 PM

At this point Blizzard has made hundreds of times more dollars pandering to the 'I suck' crowd than others have made stroking hardcore egos. It works and they should continue to go with it.

I think one of the things that's driven a lot of Blizzard's success is the realization that lowering the barrier to entry doesn't have to make a game shallow or low skill.  Games like Warcraft and Starcraft WERE the casual versions of the RTS genre back when the interface for much of the competition was an innavigable mess of hotkeys and submenus.

Plus, I'm not really sure about the usage of terms like "skill ceiling" in competitive games.  To me, that implies that there's a certain limit to how good you can get (like, it doesn't matter if you devote your life to it, you'll never be able to beat me at tic-tac-toe) but if there's a professional scene and the same five or ten teams keep floating around the top of it, it seems like 99.9% of the population isn't in any danger of hitting that ceiling any time soon.

Skill ceiling can be a very real thing. Some games and mechanics just don't allow for as much player differentiation as others — ie, the game's state is "solved" much more easily. Naughts and Crosses is a good example of this; the game is easily solvable and has a low skill ceiling. Chess is much harder to solve — it's skill ceiling is higher. Go's ceiling is higher still.

In games, look at something like DotA2 vs HotS. Blizzard's HotS is a great game, but it has a lower skill ceiling than DotA2. There just aren't as many variables and points of interaction for the player.

I haven't played enough Overwatch though to make a call about its ceiling.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Malakili
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Reply #316 on: May 11, 2016, 04:52:32 AM



Plus, I'm not really sure about the usage of terms like "skill ceiling" in competitive games.  To me, that implies that there's a certain limit to how good you can get (like, it doesn't matter if you devote your life to it, you'll never be able to beat me at tic-tac-toe) but if there's a professional scene and the same five or ten teams keep floating around the top of it, it seems like 99.9% of the population isn't in any danger of hitting that ceiling any time soon.

Look at TF2 for example. Competitive play very quickly became about Medic, Demoman, Soldier and occasionally Scout.  Ubercharge was just too important not to play medic, and then the remaining classes I mentioned all have very high skill ceilings (in part because their power level is balanced on the fact that it's harder to play them, which means if you get good at them you get the "free" upside of their increased damage). They also all have very high mobility that means the options available to the player are practically infinite.

Occasionally other classes would show up on a particular map, but a "good" pyro was just almost never going to be relevant compared to a good Demoman. This is what I'm talking about with skill ceiling.

Overwatch has similar variability.  I would imagine that we are going to see a relatively small set of heroes get played in competitive settings. I'm not sure exactly which those will be yet. Ultimates are strong enough that they might push heroes over the top that have lower ceilings otherwise, so we have to account for that variable. But if I have to guess, I'm betting well see more Tracer than Bastion, for example.

This applies much more to competitive settings than pub servers/quick match games, where teams aren't as organized and players are generally much worse.
Fabricated
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Reply #317 on: May 11, 2016, 05:38:35 AM

I tend to prefer using Pharah to take out Bastion, because I suck at Genji (and frankly, I prefer playing the female characters; that's the main reason Overwatch got my attention cause TF2's all-man cast doesn't really interest me) but I am confused as to how Tracer wrecks Bastion.  I've sneaked up behind him on Tracer, start firing into his weak spot...he spins around and obliterates my 150 hp before he's even down to half health.  Sometimes I can boost forward and try to turn around and shoot him from the other side as he spins, but it's by no means a sure thing.  Sure, a Bastion that isn't paying attention is easy to kill with Tracer, but if they notice and turn?  I don't see anything she can do except toss her stickybomb and flee (and using an ult to kill him seems a little excessive when he's going to be back before that ult is recharged, probably).  Am I missing something about how she should be taking him on?
Tracer deals with Bastion the same way she deals with any backliner; blink in behind them, shoot them in the back until you're almost dead, then rewind.

If it's some guy in turret mode they'll at least be forced to stop shooting to self repair which is time they aren't shooting. If you can come back for a return trip he'll be dead.

If there's a mercy or something pocketing him shoot the mercy obviously.

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KallDrexx
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Reply #318 on: May 11, 2016, 12:48:39 PM

For those really really really really really really really really into Overwatch

Quote
The fight for the future is coming to your televisions and monitors at the end of May, but the folks at Coca-Cola® and Cinemark® Theaters are joining forces to bring Overwatch to the big screen as well!

For one night only, on May 22, selected theaters in the United States will dedicate their projectors to Blizzard’s new team-based shooter, broadcasting a collection of Overwatch cinematics, hero trailers, and animated shorts—including two new episodes, featuring the Shimada brothers, Hanzo and Genji, and the masked vigilante, Soldier: 76. As an added bonus, attendees will also get a behind-the-scenes look at the game's lore and storytelling efforts during a special developer panel hosted by Michele Morrow (not to mention some pretty sweet swag).

If you'd like to participate, you’ll want to act fast. In order to unlock a theater in your area, each location will need at least 100 reserved tickets by May 12. So, open that Battle.net Friends List, and start recruiting your fellow Overwatch agents today!*
Merusk
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Reply #319 on: May 11, 2016, 12:53:50 PM

Between that and the Taco Bell tie-in they're dumping a shitload of marketing money on this thing.

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Furiously
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Reply #320 on: May 12, 2016, 11:43:22 AM

You know the swag bag is going to be crap if you go or something awesome if you don't....

Samprimary
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Reply #321 on: May 12, 2016, 12:31:05 PM

I'm somewhat okay with bastion, I'm not super salty about him and I usually own when I am being killed by him it is because I am overextending.

But my temperance ends when it comes to bastion in turret mode being three fourths of all play of the games, because it's getting super old.

Nerf bastion POTG
ezrast
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Reply #322 on: May 12, 2016, 05:47:29 PM

Hey, it takes a lot of skill to hold down LMB and wiggle left and right a bit.
Setanta
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Reply #323 on: May 17, 2016, 03:34:25 AM

Fuck me, TF2's "Meet the" series has just been trumped well and truly. How the hell did they stop Metzen from not fucking up the story-telling like he does with so many Blizzard shorts

Maybe they didn't mention it to him :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ09xdxzIJQ

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Merusk
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Reply #324 on: May 17, 2016, 05:35:21 AM

There's so few grimdark and gritty bullshit half-baked Metezn-sue characters that I half-suspect Metzen abandoned ship on this after the initial failure of Titan.

I might just have an irrational hatred of a man I never met, though.

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Malakili
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Reply #325 on: May 17, 2016, 10:56:01 AM

I honestly don't think this videos are anywhere near as good as the TF2 "Meet the.." videos.  Maybe it's that I genuinely don't give the smallest fuck about the Overwatch story. But TF2 didn't really have a story at all and they just kind of went with pure characterization and comedy value.

Do I care that these two are brothers? Do I care what kind of weird history they have? Nope.  But Heavy Weapons Guy saying "I have yet to meet one who can outsmart bullet" says everything it needs to about the setting and character.
Merusk
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Reply #326 on: May 20, 2016, 03:59:29 PM

I thought this didn't go live until Tuesday, but there's this big blue "Play" button on my launcher. Early access for pre-buying?

Hm.. and now I get "Game server connection failed...retrying." It certainly SEEMS like a Blizzard launch.

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Kail
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Reply #327 on: May 20, 2016, 04:41:36 PM

I thought this didn't go live until Tuesday, but there's this big blue "Play" button on my launcher. Early access for pre-buying?

I've had the Play button since the open beta, I think it just shows up if you have the game installed.  Maybe they're letting you preload or something.
Hawkbit
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Reply #328 on: May 20, 2016, 09:14:45 PM

I thought this didn't go live until Tuesday, but there's this big blue "Play" button on my launcher. Early access for pre-buying?

Hm.. and now I get "Game server connection failed...retrying." It certainly SEEMS like a Blizzard launch.

It goes live worldwide at the first zone to hit midnight Tuesday. For PST, it's 4pm Monday.
Furiously
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Reply #329 on: May 23, 2016, 11:35:04 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPRRupAM4DI&feature=youtu.be

I want an Overwatch movie like ten times more than I want a Warcraft movie. The feels these shorts have.

Samprimary
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Reply #330 on: May 23, 2016, 01:04:19 PM

i've actually thought that all of the shorts that have come out since the announcement movie have had really bad, predictable writing. this one is styled in the same mold, it is so telegraphed and generic that it feels markov chain-ish in parts

i mean i like that in this game, blizzard's bad writing is confined to exterior commercial shorts and not actually jammed into your face in the game D3-ish, but it's such a shame that such visual talent is wasted on such predictable shit

HOWEVER

one upside of the whole thing is that someone guessed that Dragons was gonna be pretty much this and released this video before Dragons dropped, and its pretty perfect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnNOa1cQgBc
Kail
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Reply #331 on: May 23, 2016, 01:29:29 PM

i've actually thought that all of the shorts that have come out since the announcement movie have had really bad, predictable writing. this one is styled in the same mold, it is so telegraphed and generic that it feels markov chain-ish in parts

They feel like kid's movies to me.  Which is a better fit for Overwatch than something like Diablo at least.

I think they're doing fairly well given the constraints of a five minute video.  It's pretty similar to the TF2 stuff but aiming for drama instead of humor.
Merusk
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Reply #332 on: May 23, 2016, 04:16:22 PM

Ok, NOW it's an official "well, no way you're connecting today" Blizzard launch.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? DRILLING AND MANLINESS why so serious?

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tmp
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Reply #333 on: May 23, 2016, 06:08:14 PM

i've actually thought that all of the shorts that have come out since the announcement movie have had really bad, predictable writing. this one is styled in the same mold, it is so telegraphed and generic that it feels markov chain-ish in parts
You can take Metzen out of cringe worthy cliché fest, but you can't take cringe worthy cliché fest out of Metzen.
Merusk
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Reply #334 on: May 23, 2016, 06:58:34 PM

Getting play of the game as defense (symmetra) and you assholes don't vote me MVP? Instead you give it to that hack Bastion who only got "most damage" because I also had "most eliminations"  fuck you. :D

That's all.

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Falconeer
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Reply #335 on: May 24, 2016, 01:06:32 AM

Yeah, good thing they took scoreboards out, and replaced it with this wonderful, informative, satisfying, rewarding new system. Real nice.  awesome, for real

Merusk
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Reply #336 on: May 24, 2016, 03:14:50 AM

Yep. It is, I didn't rage once or get raged at by anyone but myself.  The above post was tongue in cheek. 

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Malakili
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Reply #337 on: May 24, 2016, 04:38:53 AM

I did have one Genji on my team last night playing like a fucking idiot and then using his K:D to justify his play style when we asked him to start playing the objectives. I saw that literally zero times during my time playing the closed and open beta.

So yeah, exactly the problem people worried about.
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Reply #338 on: May 24, 2016, 07:23:04 AM

I expect those people to drop off pretty quick as nobody cares about stroking their E-peen over time.

So far the matchmaker's also doing a fine job of putting me up against people who suck equally, too. I tried Arcade for a few games and got smeared all over the place. I think I managed 3 kills in 2 games. Switched back to quick play and games were competitive without being punishing again. None of them turned into the absolute blow-outs that the arcades were because people were playing specific characters going for kills.

Arcade mode, in short, sucked to play as someone not hardcore about shooters.  I guess it makes sense then that I've seen the hardcore shooters praising the mode.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Nija
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Reply #339 on: May 24, 2016, 07:32:33 AM

39 eliminations as Winston and I didn't even make the card lineup. Unbelievable.
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Reply #340 on: May 24, 2016, 11:08:44 AM

That video a little further up is trash compared to the Meet The series.

All it told me is there are a lot of weaboos at Blizzard.
Falconeer
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Reply #341 on: May 24, 2016, 11:42:42 AM

Overwatch’s Michael Chu On Lore And Storytelling.

Quote
That said, it may be kind of obvious but I do like the story of Hanzo and Genji. They’re two characters with a very interlinked past and that sort of thing is very interesting to explore. I also think his character has gone through so much growth from where he started as a ninja Yakuza in training and then an Overwatch agent and eventually becomes a cyborg. I think the idea of him coming to grips with his life changing so much is an interesting story.

Good stuff here  why so serious?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 11:46:21 AM by Falconeer »

Sky
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Reply #342 on: May 24, 2016, 12:12:48 PM

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Reply #343 on: May 24, 2016, 01:09:32 PM

Overwatch’s Michael Chu On Lore And Storytelling.

Quote
That said, it may be kind of obvious but I do like the story of Hanzo and Genji. They’re two characters with a very interlinked past and that sort of thing is very interesting to explore. I also think his character has gone through so much growth from where he started as a ninja Yakuza in training and then an Overwatch agent and eventually becomes a cyborg. I think the idea of him coming to grips with his life changing so much is an interesting story.

Good stuff here  why so serious?
:vomits:
Khaldun
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Reply #344 on: May 24, 2016, 01:21:47 PM

I liked Team Fortress 2 well enough as: 100% casual player and a not-very-good-at-FPS-games player. Like, I could have fun running around trying to do my best, could feel sometimes like I was useful, and when I played it (first year after Orange Box came out) people didn't seem to be so highly tuned in running it that they hated anyone who wasn't 100% super-practiced leet. It was fun and well-tuned.

I've really hated most other multiplayer shooters--people seem too demanding, the gameplay is too precise, there are too many asshats, the genre doesn't float my boat.

Is this worth a shot? Or by the time I play it will there be a bunch of leet assholes screaming at anyone who doesn't do the absolutely optimal or necessary thing precisely when they're supposed to?
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Reply #345 on: May 24, 2016, 01:40:09 PM

I'm like you and I'm having fun. It helps that there's characters who don't require 360-spin no-scope headshot skills to be useful.  The majority of my play has been as Symmestra and the ability to think strategically about where you place your Transporter and your Turrets helps far more than aiming skills.  (Plus her weapons is lock-on aim, even if it's short range.)

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Reply #346 on: May 24, 2016, 01:58:23 PM

So, yeah, TF2 again.

Did we need this? Like, to exist (as a game)?
Paelos
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Reply #347 on: May 24, 2016, 02:02:37 PM

So, yeah, TF2 again.

Did we need this? Like, to exist (as a game)?

You ask that about every Blizzard game like you expect them to innovate or do something new instead of polish something and make gobs of money off people you hate.

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Reply #348 on: May 24, 2016, 02:13:38 PM

What can I say, Blizzard North is best Blizzard.

TF2 already felt like a Blizzard game. Highly polished, distilled until clear, monetized brilliantly, and a literal child could grab it. It had already been Blizzardized. Now it's.... more Blizzardized? I don't know.

At least Hearthstone, while just bad Magic, was at least a departure from Magic and filled a different niche of that market even if that niche is filled with garbage.
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Reply #349 on: May 24, 2016, 02:15:35 PM

Note, I'm not saying this is bad. I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around it. This particular Blizzard game already existed, it just said Valve on the box.
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