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Author Topic: Overwatch  (Read 235217 times)
Zetor
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Reply #280 on: May 07, 2016, 12:52:31 PM

Bastion has a really low skill ceiling and gets positively wrecked by Tracer, Genji, and a few other heroes. He's not bad but there's way, way stronger heroes.

It seems to be intentionally designed that way- there's heroes that are exceedingly simple to use and straight forward (bastion, mercy, Reinhardt), then there's ones that require you to really pay attention to how to use all their abilities (Zarya, D'va, Lucio) to use them efficiently.

Like I'm not good with Zarya but when someone who can play her well works with a team that works WITH her she's insanely fucking powerful. I'm barely mediocre with Lucio and I can quite simply run circles around pubbies with him because of his wall-running, speed boost, and shockingly decent main weapon (the knockback is obscenely good for blasting people off ledges).
I think Mercy is actually harder to use than Lucio (even if you're just healbotting) because you need to actively target whoever you're healing, switch to damage amp when appropriate, and your escape skill relies on positioning (both from Mercy and teammates) plus switching weapons to do damage is a pain. On the other hand, Lucio has a passive heal aura that can be boosted to act as an AOE heal, and he can do damage at the same time without pressing more than 2 buttons... he also doesn't really need to rely on cooldowns or team awareness to get mobility thanks to wallwalking and the speed aura.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 12:55:47 PM by Zetor »

Kail
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Reply #281 on: May 07, 2016, 02:04:35 PM

Without having looked at any of the background at all.... have they talked at all about WTF Titan was suppose to actually be?

As far as I've seen, they have said very little about Titan, the big chunk of info I'm aware of is from 2014.  It sounds kind of like it might not be that far off their original idea, actually.  Like, the game they wanted to make wasn't really clicking with the MMO idea so they decide to scale it down and polish it into something that works better.

http://kotaku.com/heres-what-blizzards-titan-actually-was-1638632121

Quote
...it would have taken place on a near-future version of Earth, in a science-fiction depiction of the world... and zones planned for the game ranged from the west coast of the United States to Europe, South America, and Australia, according to a source...

...One potential scenario, described to me by a person who saw the game, might have gone something like this: You're working for a corporation, helping run a shop, when you're called for a mission by your faction, so you run into an elevator, switch outfits superhero-style, and go off to fight enemies with a group of friends or allies....

...All of the people who described the game to me made a lot of Team Fortress comparisons both in terms of aesthetics and gameplay. Three people who saw the game have compared the aesthetics to Team Fortress 2, with one source describing it as a cross between StarCraft II's in-game cinematics and Pixar's The Incredibles....

The only thing the video really added was that Tracer's ability kit was apparently largely lifted from Titan.  Otherwise, who knows.
Koyasha
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Reply #282 on: May 07, 2016, 10:45:43 PM

Bastion has a really low skill ceiling and gets positively wrecked by Tracer, Genji, and a few other heroes. He's not bad but there's way, way stronger heroes.
I tend to prefer using Pharah to take out Bastion, because I suck at Genji (and frankly, I prefer playing the female characters; that's the main reason Overwatch got my attention cause TF2's all-man cast doesn't really interest me) but I am confused as to how Tracer wrecks Bastion.  I've sneaked up behind him on Tracer, start firing into his weak spot...he spins around and obliterates my 150 hp before he's even down to half health.  Sometimes I can boost forward and try to turn around and shoot him from the other side as he spins, but it's by no means a sure thing.  Sure, a Bastion that isn't paying attention is easy to kill with Tracer, but if they notice and turn?  I don't see anything she can do except toss her stickybomb and flee (and using an ult to kill him seems a little excessive when he's going to be back before that ult is recharged, probably).  Am I missing something about how she should be taking him on?

Bastion supported by Reinhardt is really annoying though; 2000 HP shield that regenerates pretty quickly, shielding a self-healing character.  Symmetra's shield-piercing slow-orbs are the only decent answer I see to that (other than ults, which as I said with Tracer, don't like to consider the solution cause Bastion will be back before ult is recharged).  Of course, Bastion + Reinhardt is teamwork, so I understand it not being something easy to take down with a single character.  Two Symmetras tossing shield-piercing orbs in response will wreck their day, so teamwork vs. teamwork works pretty well.

In general, now that I've finally gotten to try the game, I'm having a decent bit of fun with it - although frankly, I'm pretty sure I'm bad at it.  Not completely hopeless, but...not good.  I mean, I'm smart enough to do things like approach a Bastion intelligently or use various clever strategies, but I'm pretty bad at the actual execution of stuff; shooters have never really been my strong point.  I do find it funny those rare times I just...turn awesome and wind up mowing down one enemy after another with perfect aim, only to utterly fail in the next round or even a few minutes later in the same match.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
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Reply #283 on: May 08, 2016, 04:15:35 AM

I'm always bad at shooters as well, but I appreciate that they went out of their way to include heroes that don't require any ability to aim - that alone makes it more playable than TF2 to me. I still kind of suck at Winston somehow but Mei is my very favorite. Few things are as satisfying as an icicle kill, whether a lucky snipe from afar or a cheeky point blank headshot after freezing some sap in place.
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Reply #284 on: May 08, 2016, 04:33:12 AM

I hate that there's not a real scoreboard. I see what Blizzard is doing here, dumbifying leveling the playing field iin order to never make anyone feel useless. By hiding the scores of the badly performing players they are not only making everyone feel good about their game, but they are also reducing the toxicity of online gaming. The way things are now, it is possible (but not always straightforward) to see who played well, but it is impossible in pubbies to see who performed like shit unless you were really paying attention. Fine, I get the point, yet this is annoying to me and not because I want to wreck on the bad ones (I am one of the bad ones) but because little numbers, scores, stats and the likes are of my pleasing and belong to a tradition of online arenas that is not OK to remove. I miss K/D/A. Right, this reminds me of the difference between "Eliminations" and "Final Blows". Eliminations, which is what you see popping up on your screen all the time, are the kills you have been part of, whether as the killer or with an assist. They show up in your "TAB" menu during a match. Final Blows are the actual kills, but to find out yours I think you have to go deep into your Statiistics screen out of a match. I am sure we have all felt grand about a pentakill or something, only to find out later it wasn't really us who did it.

Again, this is coming from someone who is bad at shooters now. I suck. Still, I miss a real scoreboard. Seems like a minor thing, but it's annoying the hell out of me.

Koyasha
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Reply #285 on: May 08, 2016, 04:59:26 AM

Most of the post-game screens show my final blows in one of the boxes at the bottom.  I think those boxes depend on which character you're playing, but pretty sure all the offense/defense characters, at least, have a final blows box, if that interests you.  And it always shows your deaths and eliminations, so you can figure out K/D/A in that screen.

But even final blows doesn't tell that much of the story.  What I love is the number that pops up when you get an elimination.  It seems to be the percentage of the enemy's life that I did.  So if I get an 80% elimination and didn't get the final blow, well, I still feel pretty decent about that cause whoever got the final blow may or may not have gotten the kill on their own, unless it was a sniper headshotting the person (or anyone at all sneezing harshly in the general direction of Zenyatta, I suppose), but I know I did a decent amount of damage and meaningfully contributed to the kill either way.  Similarly, if I got the last 1% I can probably tell whether that person would have gotten away without me or if I just got the final blow on someone who was going to die anyway to whoever was already shooting them.  It makes 'kill stealing' mean less, cause the person who did most of the damage still gets to see that '93' elimination on their screen and get the satisfaction of knowing that Tracer popping in at the last second and shooting the almost-dead guy wasn't exactly the most meaningful thing (unless he was about to escape).

Now it would definitely be nice to be able to go post-game and see a list of your eliminations along with the number next to them.

Oh, Play of the Game started out seeming cool, but is getting a little irritating.  I think they need some kind of culling mechanism to start with - not every game even has something worth being highlighted as 'play of the game' after all.  Beyond that...ugh, I have no idea.  It's clear that it's ridiculously difficult writing an algorithm to determine what was a meaningful play and what was just someone killing three guys that did absolutely nothing as far as the flow of the game was concerned, but I'm sure it could do with some improvements, at least.  Maybe weight things higher the closer the play happens to the actual objective, because a triple kill near the objective is almost certain to be more meaningful to the game than a triple kill because people were screwing around someplace pointless.  That said, sometimes I have seen the play of the game and nodded, going, 'yep, that's definitely the moment that won us/them the match' so it at least works sometimes.  But any play that a healer or support participated in for at least 5 of the 10 second duration of the play  (the Mercy is healing/damage boosting, or the Zenyatta has the discord orb on the targets/healing orb on, or his ult, or even Lucio's auras but especially his ult) should come up as, for instance, 'Play of the Game - Pharah and Mercy' instead of just giving the offensive character all the credit.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
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Reply #286 on: May 08, 2016, 05:02:04 AM

I miss seeing stats too, but ultimately I'm pretty sure I'm happier going without.

Except for when I'm playing Mercy. Then I want every player's kills, assists, blocks, damage, objective time, blood type, bank account balance, and astrological sign because fuck wasting my blue and yellow beams of glory on bad teammates.
Malakili
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Reply #287 on: May 08, 2016, 05:41:50 AM

Honestly, K:D only ever mattered in deathmatch games anyway. In a team, objective-based game, it really doesn't matter who many "final blows" you get. I already get annoyed enough as it is when some windowmaker is ignoring the objective on offense, no need to encourage that kind if play even more.
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Reply #288 on: May 08, 2016, 06:53:41 AM

It absolutely does NOT matter, it's a team game. But I still want to see it. Take any team sport, real sports. It does NOT matter to know who scored a goal, who made the most 3-pointers, who made the most saves or threw more TDs. But I sure want to know it and see it.

Since we always had these things since the dawn of online/multiplayer gaming, removing or even just obscuring it sucks.

Kail
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Reply #289 on: May 08, 2016, 09:17:35 AM

It absolutely does NOT matter, it's a team game. But I still want to see it.

They kind of touched on that here:

https://youtu.be/bTMnJ5XJH6Q?t=17m4s

I think their stand is that it's better to not show any information than to show misleading information, and they can't find a way to make a lot of roles accurately represented numerically.  If you want to know your KDA, I think that info is still in there, it's just not there on the tab screen because it's not useful information in-game.

Oh, Play of the Game started out seeming cool, but is getting a little irritating.

Yeah, that's kind of the same problem as the scoreboard to me.  It's hard to measure what's a "good" or "important" play objectively, or which individual player in the dogpile was the one who was most important, so singling out one specific moment from one specific player seems weird.  There's been a lot of plays where, as a tank or healer, I'm thinking I'm doing something important but in the replay it's just a shot of my ass as the guy who the game decides is carrying fires around me.  Though it does sometimes just flat out not work, I was playing a match yesterday and got a 5 x kill on the point as Winston (probably only got the last blow on two or three of them, though), and the play of the game was SERIOUSLY some Bastion sitting on a platform, transforming to turret mode, getting sniped instantly and dying without firing a shot, it was pretty funny. 
Falconeer
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Reply #290 on: May 08, 2016, 09:37:08 AM

If you want to know your KDA, I think that info is still in there, it's just not there on the tab screen because it's not useful information in-game.

Well, just not mine but others too. I want to read about other players stats too. Again, I think the only reason they did this is to prevent the usual online toxicity. Without knowing how anyone else did (specifically) it's harder to rage on them. Or at least that's the theory. The practice so far is that we are missing a lot of cool, and potentially valuable in a group that is trying to learn the game, info. Incidentally, I think this choice won't fly should they every try and make it a serious e-sport. People, players and spectators, need metrics.

Kail
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Reply #291 on: May 08, 2016, 10:04:26 AM

The practice so far is that we are missing a lot of cool, and potentially valuable in a group that is trying to learn the game, info.

It's not valuable, though, is the point.  It doesn't tell you who's doing well and who's not, and even if it did, you KNOW that this is NEVER going to be used to help anyone learn the game except in the sense that yelling at someone to stop sucking is "helping" them.  If you're trying to learn the game, playing ten matches and learning what works firsthand is going to be WAY more helpful than knowing that your K/D with Tracer is 1.22.

You can't justify a KDA as a tool for noobs if it's not telling us information that noobs can use to improve, and it doesn't.  It doesn't let them know what class they should be playing or how well they're doing at it, instead it gives them the wrong idea (that KDA is important) and they could pick up a LOT of bad habits from that (I want the best KDA every round so I'll play Widowmaker always everywhere, and screw these noobs who choose Mercy, she's got trash tier stats).

Incidentally, I think this choice won't fly should they every try and make it a serious e-sport. People, players and spectators, need metrics.

The metrics are there, though, it's just not on the tab screen.  Dota 2 does this, unless I'm misremembering, where the spectators have access to WAY more numerical data than the players (stuff like total net worth and team net worth teamfight recap stats).  It gives the announcers something to talk about during downtime, fills the screen up with complicated looking charts and graphs, but the players in-game don't need access to it to play well.

I mean, the numbers are there, if you want to take this seriously and look it up later to examine how well you did.  It's just not there if you want to hit tab and blame someone.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 10:06:03 AM by Kail »
Koyasha
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Reply #292 on: May 08, 2016, 10:52:56 AM

Yeah, that's kind of the same problem as the scoreboard to me.  It's hard to measure what's a "good" or "important" play objectively, or which individual player in the dogpile was the one who was most important, so singling out one specific moment from one specific player seems weird.  There's been a lot of plays where, as a tank or healer, I'm thinking I'm doing something important but in the replay it's just a shot of my ass as the guy who the game decides is carrying fires around me.  Though it does sometimes just flat out not work, I was playing a match yesterday and got a 5 x kill on the point as Winston (probably only got the last blow on two or three of them, though), and the play of the game was SERIOUSLY some Bastion sitting on a platform, transforming to turret mode, getting sniped instantly and dying without firing a shot, it was pretty funny. 
Gets it right once in a while too.  I just had a Play of the Game which was...Mercy running in, rezzing Bastion and Torbjorn, and then taking a couple shots at me.  But the thing is, we were in Overtime, and if she hadn't rezzed Bastion and Torbjorn, I would have killed her immediately and then overtime would have ended before anyone else got there.  As it was, I re-killed the Bastion before he did anything, but Torbjorn and Mercy got me, then one of my team got there, more of their team arrived, they secured the point and pushed my team off, and they won.  Was fun to see Play of the Game actually manage to highlight the exact move that won them the game.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
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Reply #293 on: May 08, 2016, 12:33:33 PM

if K/D/A is shown as a public metric, it becomes the only stat people care about. We've seen that in enough FPS games to realize this. Team support like Tanks, Heals, Debuffs get shoved to the side as everyone frets about K/D/A instead.

I die a ton ad don't get kills. I'm still more effective than 80% of my open-beta teammates because:

1) I actually play support and support people. The number of times my team has had the "no tanks" or "too many offense" or "not enough offense" because the idiots all want to play Junkrat and Sniper are already too high and I only have 2 hours /played according to the stats screen.

2) I'll switch-up to a less-favored character if the situation requires it. This morning I took the tank chick because we had 5.6m to go on the "escort" objective in London. Every other motherfucker, for 3.5 minutes, was running as a damn sniper or junkrat trying to kill the enemy team massed on the objective. Only me and one other guy went tank and escorted, getting the win. Fuck the other 5 team members, one of whom got MVP for # of kills. MrPajamas and I won that goddamn game, not him.

3) I'm not concerned about goddamn stats or being called a noob because my K/D/A sucks ass. I know it does. I can look at the screen right now and see it. It's never going to get much better than my 1:25min on fire/ 12s average and 1.92 solo kills. I'm good with that, because I'm at > 50% win rate on everyone but Mercy. Mercy's stats are terrible because for the first 4 games I was playing like K/D/A and "time healed" mattered.

4) K/D/A means that "x is the best hero" meta becomes about damage and survivablily rather than usefulness. Symmetra is perhaps the BEST defensive supports there is. She'd be called terrible in such a meta because of the shitty nature of her weapon and her playstyle being about, oh, DEFENSE and strategy rather than raking-in kills.  Know where to place those turrets to charge your portal. Place the portal where it matters and can't be wiped instantly. I had a game where I had 40% portal-uptime, 20 players transported via portal and 8 eliminations and disrupted several cap attempts w/ my turrets.  Junkrat got MVP for having 15 eliminations. wtf.

So yeah, they can keep the old shooter bullshit in the old shooters. They're still out there to be played if that's what you care most about. Hiding them has only improved a lot of my complaints about "team shooters"

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Reply #294 on: May 08, 2016, 12:56:07 PM

Showing some sort of individual score in team objective-based game modes has been an issue in shooters since there's been team objective-based game modes (i.e Threewave CTF). People will play for the score/stats and not play to win. That's one of the reasons why I switched to ThunderWalker CTF from 3Wave cause TWCTF gave points for doing "defensive" things like guarding the flag (killing enemies near the flag) which is what I was already doing cause I was old and slow even back then.
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Reply #295 on: May 08, 2016, 04:28:57 PM

I tend to prefer using Pharah to take out Bastion, because I suck at Genji (and frankly, I prefer playing the female characters; that's the main reason Overwatch got my attention cause TF2's all-man cast doesn't really interest me) but I am confused as to how Tracer wrecks Bastion. 

I know this isn't the place for it, but do you seriously mean what you said there? You don't care about the gameplay, you care about the sexes of the characters in the game?

How do you feel about Mario Brothers?
Did you play Zelda, because the name of the game is the girl - but the character is a guy?
Did you wait until the kid down the street beat Metroid, and learned that the character is a girl, before you actually played? Did you wait for that one Nintendo Power to confirm it, for fear of TAINING YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE?

Okay, that last question is snarky, but the rest is serious. Play games because of gameplay. Please.
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Reply #296 on: May 08, 2016, 07:03:40 PM

I tend to prefer using Pharah to take out Bastion, because I suck at Genji (and frankly, I prefer playing the female characters; that's the main reason Overwatch got my attention cause TF2's all-man cast doesn't really interest me) but I am confused as to how Tracer wrecks Bastion. 

I know this isn't the place for it, but do you seriously mean what you said there? You don't care about the gameplay, you care about the sexes of the characters in the game?

How do you feel about Mario Brothers?
Did you play Zelda, because the name of the game is the girl - but the character is a guy?
Did you wait until the kid down the street beat Metroid, and learned that the character is a girl, before you actually played? Did you wait for that one Nintendo Power to confirm it, for fear of TAINING YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE?

Okay, that last question is snarky, but the rest is serious. Play games because of gameplay. Please.

Ok thought police.

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Koyasha
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Reply #297 on: May 09, 2016, 12:50:17 AM

I tend to prefer using Pharah to take out Bastion, because I suck at Genji (and frankly, I prefer playing the female characters; that's the main reason Overwatch got my attention cause TF2's all-man cast doesn't really interest me) but I am confused as to how Tracer wrecks Bastion. 

I know this isn't the place for it, but do you seriously mean what you said there? You don't care about the gameplay, you care about the sexes of the characters in the game?

How do you feel about Mario Brothers?
Did you play Zelda, because the name of the game is the girl - but the character is a guy?
Did you wait until the kid down the street beat Metroid, and learned that the character is a girl, before you actually played? Did you wait for that one Nintendo Power to confirm it, for fear of TAINING YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE?

Okay, that last question is snarky, but the rest is serious. Play games because of gameplay. Please.
I care about both, and in modern times where there's no concern about how much data you can fit on the cartridge/floppy/cd, I see little excuse for having zero female characters in a game.  I just like playing female characters; can't really explain it beyond that.  If the game is sufficiently interesting, I'll play it anyway, but unless it totally knocks my socks off, I've got enough other games to play that are entertaining and do let me play female characters these days.

That said, I do switch to the guys in Overwatch when it's definitely the best course of action; I don't shoot myself in the foot by going 'only female characters, ever!' and keep playing Zarya or D.Va when Reinhardt or Winston would be so much more effective at this specific match, for instance.

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Reply #298 on: May 09, 2016, 02:29:35 PM

I was pretty pleased with myself today. I was playing Mercy and had decided to try playing "res only". I spent the whole match shooting and only topping off people if no enemies were around. I had to use my res a couple times. Oddly enough I was player of the game with just pistol shooting a group of enemies.

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Reply #299 on: May 10, 2016, 06:17:34 AM

I hate shooters, but damnit this one was fun, AND because of the really varied nature of the characters I was always able to find a niche.  I went ahead and bought it, damn my eyes.

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Reply #300 on: May 10, 2016, 06:57:09 AM

I ended up preordering too but this game still needs a real scoreboard. The problem is not just the absence of KDA. It's the absence of everything related to your team and teammates. No scoreboard means no info at all. Sure, 3 or 4 players (out of 12, and potentially 0 of your team) will have ONE stat shown. Gee yay! My ass.

They could show medals, amount healed, protected, damage done, received, they could show the times Mei froze someone or the times your Roadhog chains pulled an enemy, or they could even separate the scoreboard in four sections, for each role, with different stats. There is so much more they can do with it. Post game now is anticlimatic.

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Reply #301 on: May 10, 2016, 07:17:55 AM

Win or lose is all that matters. If you lost your stats mean shit beyond dick-waving. I prefer it this way, as I detailed above.

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Reply #302 on: May 10, 2016, 10:33:07 AM

I disagree, Battlefield with all it's stats constantly reminds you how bad you are, and then you quit playing. Overwatch makes you feel like you are doing work even when you are bad, retaining all the bad players. Play with a friend who is decent and you will win just about every match.

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Reply #303 on: May 10, 2016, 12:02:42 PM

It's a Blizzard game, it's for bad people. It's their brand now, at least based on internet hate for them.

Hearthstone: For people bad at card games, considering all the bitching that it wasn't M:TG

WoW: For people bad at MMOs (until it wasn't)

D3: For people who suck at grinding in grimdark (omg colors and people who aren't super-cereal!)

HOTS: For people shitty at LoL or that other one.

Overwatch: For people who suck at shooters and just don't give a damn about your stat porn.

 why so serious?

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Reply #304 on: May 10, 2016, 01:03:46 PM

Though snarky, you really aren't wrong.  why so serious?

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Reply #305 on: May 10, 2016, 01:34:12 PM

And then there's Starcraft, which is exactly the opposite. That being said, my feeling is that Overwatch has a fairly high skill ceiling with the highest skill ceiling heroes. It has heroes that are easier to play too. I mean, it's not Counter-Strike, but that's fine.
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Reply #306 on: May 10, 2016, 03:08:51 PM

Though snarky, you really aren't wrong.  why so serious?

I know, it was the best kind of snark, that with truth behind it. At this point Blizzard has made hundreds of times more dollars pandering to the 'I suck' crowd than others have made stroking hardcore egos. It works and they should continue to go with it.

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Reply #307 on: May 10, 2016, 03:20:43 PM

And then there's Starcraft, which is exactly the opposite. That being said, my feeling is that Overwatch has a fairly high skill ceiling with the highest skill ceiling heroes. It has heroes that are easier to play too. I mean, it's not Counter-Strike, but that's fine.

Skill-ceilings are fine, but Blizzard succeeds by making the skill floors a lot lower than other games in the same genres, and thus making casuals feel like they don't suck quite as hard until they really get owned hard.

Malakili
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Reply #308 on: May 10, 2016, 03:21:33 PM

Skill-ceilings are fine, but Blizzard succeeds by making the skill floors a lot lower than other games in the same genres, and thus making casuals feel like they don't suck quite as hard until they really get owned hard.

I assume you mean skill floors being higher, but yes.

It works because the games are good though. Even most hardcore players would rather play a polished game with smooth mechanics than jank that's "hardcore." It's one of the reasons that I keep going back to Diablo 3 even though there are other ARPGs I like more in principle right now. It just feels better. That counts for a ton.
Fordel
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Reply #309 on: May 10, 2016, 04:23:07 PM

SC2 is also Blizzards weakest game at this point.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Typhon
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Reply #310 on: May 10, 2016, 04:23:25 PM

By "skill floor" he meant something like, "skill barrier to entry", or "minimum required proficiency", and he really did mean lower.
Malakili
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Reply #311 on: May 10, 2016, 05:04:28 PM

SC2 is also Blizzards weakest game at this point.

Certainly in terms of popularity and probably sales.  It's still the best RTS on the market - but the RTS market is basically dead anyway.
Venkman
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Reply #312 on: May 10, 2016, 06:50:46 PM

I enjoyed Overwatch, but not enough to buy it. The variety is interesting, and the sort of "deck building" that happens at the beginning of a round and then how it evolves over the course of the round seems more varied than TF2. But in the end this felt like yet another entry in the field of action shooters destined to piss off those chasing FOTM playstyles just before the nerfs.

I think it'll do pretty well though. Low barrier and solo practice modes. I don't know what the depth is, but for this kind of game I don't know if there's anyone looking for depth beyond the cosmetic. TF2 is still strong right?
HaemishM
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Reply #313 on: May 10, 2016, 08:00:24 PM

By "skill floor" he meant something like, "skill barrier to entry", or "minimum required proficiency", and he really did mean lower.

This.

Kail
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Reply #314 on: May 10, 2016, 08:14:29 PM

At this point Blizzard has made hundreds of times more dollars pandering to the 'I suck' crowd than others have made stroking hardcore egos. It works and they should continue to go with it.

I think one of the things that's driven a lot of Blizzard's success is the realization that lowering the barrier to entry doesn't have to make a game shallow or low skill.  Games like Warcraft and Starcraft WERE the casual versions of the RTS genre back when the interface for much of the competition was an innavigable mess of hotkeys and submenus.

Plus, I'm not really sure about the usage of terms like "skill ceiling" in competitive games.  To me, that implies that there's a certain limit to how good you can get (like, it doesn't matter if you devote your life to it, you'll never be able to beat me at tic-tac-toe) but if there's a professional scene and the same five or ten teams keep floating around the top of it, it seems like 99.9% of the population isn't in any danger of hitting that ceiling any time soon.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 08:49:37 PM by Kail »
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