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Author Topic: Depression Thread  (Read 170650 times)
Sir T
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Reply #175 on: February 27, 2014, 12:38:19 PM

I'm alone.

When I was growing up everyone called me stupid. When I was a teenager my family wouldn't even talk to me when I was living in the same house and basically ignored me except to insult me.

I've pretty much failed at everything I've done. I've only had 2 successful jobs, both part time. One was doing computer tech support for 45 charities in a kind of a co-op arrangement where they clubbed together for services, and I was part of the service. Even then I was shaky and some days all I could see was my failures leaping out at me. The second was working for a community radio station where I learned I enjoyed presenting shows and sound editing.

But looking back all I can see are the failures, like someone getting me knocked off producing the early morning news show because I made a few mistakes.

I have been pretty god awful in personal relationships. I've never had a girlfriend that lasted more than 2 weeks.

And now I'm lying here in bed, my family not talking to me, no friends, and no-one I can simply pick up the phone to for a chat. At my age people are in successful careers and have raised families. I've never managed to get on first base on a career.

So yeah I'm in a depressive mood. Every time I've tried something the voices leap out at me and paralyze me with the sheer effort of fighting them. People represent pain to me so I avoid them. I feel like I screw up every interview. I feel like I mess up every relationship. I've pretty much stopped trying yet I need to be around people, but interacting with them terrifies me. All in all I'm pretty pathetic and I'm in a very low place right now and I don't see any way out.

And yeah, I'm writing this knowing that some people are going to be laughing their heads off at me.

Hic sunt dracones.
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #176 on: February 27, 2014, 01:32:58 PM

Those people are stupid and should feel stupid.

It still frightens me to this day, that my own mind can be my enemy. That a mindset or a thought my own brain is thinking back at me can have that much power over me and my life. Like the 'you are a failure', 'everything you do is shit' and 'don't even try, it will only fail anyway' train of thought. Even though you know that those thoughts are harmful and untrue and should be ignored they seem to be all powerful at times.

I feel for you, even if that is might not really be a consolation.
Phildo
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Reply #177 on: February 27, 2014, 02:03:33 PM

For what it's worth Sir T, I had a good time hanging out with you when you visited Austin a few years back.
Miasma
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Reply #178 on: February 27, 2014, 02:09:22 PM

No, I can't think of anyone here who would laugh at you.  A lot of people have argued with you, including myself, but personally I've always been worried about you.  I've said harsh things but I've probably deleted more replies after writing them than I've actually posted because I was genuinely concerned about your mental state.  Some of the things you have said or fiercely believe in go beyond depression into something like a mild schizophrenia.  If you aren't seeing a therapist of some kind at the moment I really hope you consider doing so.

I hope you feel better and I'm sorry for yelling at you in the politics forum.

Ghost can go fuck himself though awesome, for real.  I'm kidding.
Sir T
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Reply #179 on: February 27, 2014, 02:23:32 PM

That's the nicest "I think you're completely nuts" I've ever heard. :)

For what it's worth Sir T, I had a good time hanging out with you when you visited Austin a few years back.

Yeah but you never replied to me again and I thought that meant I had pissed you off. See the way fragile people can draw conclusions from the simplest things. Its one of the things I've had to tell myself "Feelings are not facts" Which of course is easier said than believed :D

Hic sunt dracones.
ghost
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Reply #180 on: February 27, 2014, 02:52:29 PM

No, I can't think of anyone here who would laugh at you.  A lot of people have argued with you, including myself, but personally I've always been worried about you.  I've said harsh things but I've probably deleted more replies after writing them than I've actually posted because I was genuinely concerned about your mental state.  Some of the things you have said or fiercely believe in go beyond depression into something like a mild schizophrenia.  If you aren't seeing a therapist of some kind at the moment I really hope you consider doing so.

I hope you feel better and I'm sorry for yelling at you in the politics forum.

Ghost can go fuck himself though awesome, for real.  I'm kidding.

What did I do?   why so serious?

Edit-  on a more serious note, if you are depressed or feeling blue the politics section here at f13 is the last place you should be posting......
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 02:56:40 PM by ghost »
Sir T
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Reply #181 on: February 27, 2014, 02:58:42 PM

Which is one of the reasons I don't read there anymore. You should always be aware of and try and avoid your triggers.

Hic sunt dracones.
ghost
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Reply #182 on: February 27, 2014, 03:02:25 PM

Oh, for sure.  I do have to commend everyone here for being such decent folk outside of that part of the forum, however.  It's rather odd to see how decent the people here can be yet what utter cunts they can be to folks in Politics.  I guess that's where we are in the world now though. 

Not that I don't enjoy the politics board.  I just know to avoid it when I'm feeling blue myself.  And I always try to post and react like Nebu, who seems to have his head screwed on straight and gets along with almost everyone. 
calapine
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Reply #183 on: February 27, 2014, 03:36:15 PM

This brings me to my story.

I have AD(H)D but I didn't know that until I was 33.

[...snip...]

It's shocking how what your wrote sounds familiar to me. At least perfunctory details. I came into contact with psychiatric care several times since 18 and only last year (at age 32) my shrink suggested a case of ADD, inattentive type (thus without the typical hyperactivity). From everything I know it quite possible, but I feel wary of latching onto that and using it as an excuse to shift the blame of personal failures (and responsibility) onto something extern.

For about a week now I have been prescribed Ritalin as well, and it certainly does something. On the other hand it has a reputation to be abused as 'student drug', so how can I tell the effect I feel is medical or just what everyone would experience? I certainly find it easier to decide and just do something instead of endlessly arguing with myself.

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
apocrypha
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Reply #184 on: February 27, 2014, 10:35:22 PM

This brings me to my story.

I have AD(H)D but I didn't know that until I was 33.

Hrmm. You basically just described my entire experience at school, university and afterwards. Quite... um.. amazingly accurately. I've always thought, and been told, that I was lazy and didn't "apply myself".

I don't know what to think now.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #185 on: February 28, 2014, 03:59:02 AM

My personal opinion on the matter is that I've decided I hate the term ADD. Naming the disorder that way is one of the worst things the researchers could have done. Naming it 'Egon' or basically anything else would have been better. Firstly because it doesn't even describe any symptoms just the reactions of your brain to the symptoms. Secondly it doesn't even describe all of the potential reactions of your body just some of them and it does a bad job even doing that. The DSM V and ISM manual entries for AD(H)D (and yes it's spelled exactly that way) is a mess as a result.

It's like calling cancer the 'can cause unbelievable pain and/or dead-ness' disease or hypertension the 'will make your face red and cause your heart to explode eventually' disease. It's a diffuse description of symptons and comordbidities  that AD(H)D shares with many other mental 'diseases'

The best theory on what causes AD(H)D is that it's a sort of dopamine deficiency in your brain. In the brain, dopamine functions as a neurotransmitter—a chemical released by nerve cells to send signals to other nerve cells (from wikipedia). A stimulus causes a neuron to release neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine and others into the 'gap' between neurons which in turn causes other neurons to react to that stimulus. After a certain time the neuro transmitter molecules get re-absorbed by the neuron that has released them. The amount of neuro-transmitters released and the time they stay in the neuron 'gap' determines how other neurons react to that stimulus.

In AD(H)D it seems to be that dopamanie gets re-absorbed too quickly by the emitting neuron, the transmitter doesn't stay long enough in the gap and so the receptor neuron gets a lower stimulus than it should. It's the most likely theory because otherwise ritaling wouldn't work and  MRI studies have confirmed it to an extent.

Dopamine plays important roles in motor control, motivation, arousal, cognition, and reward. Dopamine is important for the fiunction of the prefrontal cortex and regulates among other things the parts of your brain responsible for:

- concentration and focus
- stimulus filtering: the filtering mechanisms responsible for regulating external stimuli like sound, sight, touch, sense of smell, etc. You know the thing that keeps you from going completely mad and that gives people a great time when it's missing completely like in Autism.
- impulse control
- the 'reward' system of your brain.
- working memory

So no big deal at all. why so serious?
Also pretty good for a neuro-transmitter that only affects about 400,000 neurons.

It also seems to be hereditary because in families with AD(H)D children you usually find one parent or grandparent to be AD(H)D as well.

The brain reacts to the lower than necessary levels of dopamine by finding ways to increase dopamine levels and by motivating you to behave in ways that tend to increase dopamine levels. Which is fucked up when you really think about it, your brain is encouraging you to do stuff that increases dopamine and discourages you from doing stuff that doesn't.

How it does that is learned however and depends on your upbringing and character as much as on your environment. It also depends on sex and gender roles, males tend to exhibit other behaviour and symptoms than females. Which brings me back to its name. Symptoms are first exhibited in children above the age of five. This is because children below the age of five basically exhibit all of the symptons of AD(H)D as default behaviour and so 'normal' behaviour would be indistinguishable from the disease. It's also why children are so overly diagnosed with AD(H)D,when does 'normal' behaviour end and the disease begin? Especiall in classes with > 30 children and teachers that need children to 'function' to have any chance to het through the curriculum.

Some persons tend to get hyperactive because physical exercise increases dopamine or show other types of disruptive behaviour like being the 'class clown' or otherwise being disruptive in social situations (the H part in AD(H)D) and those are usually the only ones who get treated, because they tend to get noticed.

There are other types of AD(H)D labelled 'inattentive' and those usually don't get treated because nobody notices those cases. The child who doesn't pay attention in class, who constantly daydreams, seems to be in his/her own head all the time and generally acts 'ditzy' or scatterbrained or is otherwise absent-minded. They don't disrupt class and don't get 'in the way' and so they usually get ignored until their symptoms causes their performance in school to suffer and then they are usually seen as lazy or just stupid.
calapine
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Reply #186 on: February 28, 2014, 05:16:45 AM

*laughs* Jeff Kelly - Every post an info dump!  [1]  Heart

I am actually familiar with everything you said in your post, but it's pretty hard to translate down to a personal level. Who is ever going to say "Hmm, yes. I always felt my there is something wrong my dopamine!". So one is stuck with the descriptive indications. Which ties in to the diagnostic problems in children you refer about.

I do agree with you about the name. It doesn't help that ADD has sort of a reputation as 'fashion diagnosis' (Although I don't know if thats actually true or just a media narrative). If it bothers you a lot there is also the ICD-10 designation 'Hyperkinetic Disorder' (sounds crap too, imho).



[1] Just teasing. Don't change!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 05:19:53 AM by calapine »

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #187 on: February 28, 2014, 06:02:53 AM

So you'll probably won't mind the next wall of text then  Heart

AD(H)D is a syndrome. As I see it it means: 'a set of effects, symptoms or behaviours that every person has at times but at a level or intensity that they cause you suffering or negatively impact your life or your qualioty of life'. For example: Most people get bored or have at times difficulties to motivate themselves when it's a difficult or not very rewarding task but if every thing in your day to day life is like that then it will cause you real problems.

It's also why many people don't see it as a 'real' disease because all of the symptons from AD(H)D or in fact other types of syndromes are also exhibited as part of normal behaviour- just not for as long or with that intensity

The effects on the working memory mean that you tend to be overly forgetful, that you have a hard time remembering stuff. You're constantly looking for things because you can't remember where you put them. You find things in odd places, like your remote in the fridge because you got up during the game and got yourself a beer and somehow put the remote where your beer was. You go to places only to realize you have completely forgotten what you wanted to do there. I once went to my mailbox to get my mail and I had kept my front door open because I wanted to get back inside. By the time I was at my mailbox I had completely forgotten that fact and decided that while I'm already dressed and out I could as well go to work right away. So I left my front door open, for twelve hours, in a major metropolitain area. Luckily nobody stole anything from me.

To compensate for the bad memory people often develop OCD-like symptoms, double, triple and quadruple check everything, keep notes on everything etc.

The effects on the stimulus filter mean that you have a hard time functioning in 'distracting' or 'noisy' environments. Loud and crowded bars, cubicle or big office spaces, all kinds of situations where it's loud, or where there are many and intensive external stimuli. You tend to 'lock in' on sensory inputs and can have a hard time concentrating on anything else instead. The distracting sensory input overwhelms and overrides any other function. You sometimes literally can't even think when someone else is talking. You are generally more sensitive to sensory inputs everything is louder, brighter, smellier and more confusing than for normal people. After being in such environments for long you can feel exhausted and overwhelmed and usually need a quiet place and 'alone-time' to recharge. Those overwhelming stimuli can even generate a flight reflex or anger against the person responsible. Ever heard someone whisper at a library and everything you could do was listen and couldn't concentrate on anything else like thinking or reading?

Some people develop social anxiety and even if they are not those symptoms are generally confused with social anxiety disorders.

The effects on the reward system boil down to your brain constantly craving activities or stimuli that ensure a high output of dopamine. So everything that is 'interesting' is good 'everything that is 'boring' is bad. Everything that offers a constant and quick 'reqard' is good, everything that seems to be 'hard' or offers a payoff sometime in the future is 'bad' If what you want or need to do anyway coincides with the goals of your brain you will get extensive amounts of shit done in short amounts of time but your brain won't let you stop doing that activity. Suddenly your memory is working on overdrive, you devour whole books and can remember basically every word. You get crazy creative and your mind seems to 'connect the dots' on its own. You do shit and you're not really sure how. You also literally can't stop.

This is called hyper focus and is basically the manic side of AD(H)D.

At other times you can't deal with any activities even if they would only take a small amount of time or effort just because your brain refuses to let you do 'boring' stuff. You start procrastinating intensely, you spend hours avoiding an activity that might have only taken ten minutes to do. Projects are always late and get postponed to the last minute, everything you don't really care about or won't get reprecussions for end up being done shitty or with minimal effort. You constantly hate yourself for not being able to get things done, or for things turning out worse than you wanted them to.

Once the adrenaline rush of a deadline kicks in your brain switches to hyper focus mode and you tend to get at least something done at the last minute by working weekends, or late into the night.

This is the depressive side of AD(H)D combined with the hyperfocus and manic 'no eat and sleep' phases it often gets confused with manic depression or bipolar disorder.
Amarr HM
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Reply #188 on: February 28, 2014, 06:09:15 AM

You just described my life. Except I left the front door open for a whole three days, not only was it unlocked when I arrived home, but it was ajar.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #189 on: February 28, 2014, 06:19:31 AM

The most interesting fact though and the one that doesn't get touched nearly as much is that AD(H)D doesn't really make you be worse at everything. It has upsides.

Yes, you tend to have a very active inner monologue that can drown out all external influences and makes it hard to sleep (inatentiveness is mainly being so involved with your own thoughts that you forget that there is even a world outside your own mind) but your mind is also always racing and going at 10,000 miles an hour and you are hugely creative. It may feel as if the world is running at half speed but you can get a lot of thinking done and you are often very quick to grasp things when you muster the concentration.

Due to the fact that your mind is constantly changing track and that you tend to jump around alot also means that your brain can make connections other people would not.

So the downside of AD(H)D are numerous. People are also more likely to develop any kind of addiction (also changes dopamine levels) in fact there is a very large correlation between alcoholism and drug abuse and ADD. They can also be more creative and if they are in a field they really love their tendency to hyperfocus can actually be used to their advantage. Lack of impulse control can also mean being less risk averse which can have huge payoffs if used in the right way.

You'll find a significant number of ADD people in creative fields and art and also in technolgical fields. In music you usually have both aspects turned up to eleven. Hugely creative and prolific people, huge amounts of self doubt, huge drug problems. Famous example Ozzy Osbourne has ADD but didn't know until he was 50-ish.

In fact the stereotype of the nutty and scatterbrained professor escribes those aspects pretty well.
Lantyssa
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Reply #190 on: February 28, 2014, 06:48:33 AM

T, have you looked for therapists?  I know it's super hard when you're at a place like that, but it's important you try if you're ready to make a change.  I could work myself into an anxious mess just trying to make the call (and worse when the first one or two didn't answer), but having that appointment in hand was a big relief, too.


It's shocking how what your wrote sounds familiar to me. At least perfunctory details. I came into contact with psychiatric care several times since 18 and only last year (at age 32) my shrink suggested a case of ADD, inattentive type (thus without the typical hyperactivity). From everything I know it quite possible, but I feel wary of latching onto that and using it as an excuse to shift the blame of personal failures (and responsibility) onto something extern.

For about a week now I have been prescribed Ritalin as well, and it certainly does something. On the other hand it has a reputation to be abused as 'student drug', so how can I tell the effect I feel is medical or just what everyone would experience? I certainly find it easier to decide and just do something instead of endlessly arguing with myself.
Don't think of it as an excuse but a possible explanation for past behavior.  If you identify you consider your own failings then you can work on better habits and ways to counter them.  It's a very fine line, but while self-criticism can be defeating, self-awareness can be empowering.  (I know that sounds like clap-trap.  It's two sides of the same coin and what you focus on though.)

The way you can tell if it's working is if it enables you to alter your behavior to your liking.  Moreso if friends or family say you seem to be more "with it".  In a teen it can be very tough to tell if Ritalin is really a solution since they have so many hormonal, emotional, and life changes going on.  You're old enough to have an established history and routine though.

It took a few weeks or a month, but that's where I was when I started Prozac.  I could very much feel the lessening of the emotional distress by then, which let me be with it enough to start confronting my stressors.  Just remember it's a tool and not the solution.  You still have to do hard work of sorting stuff out. smiley

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
apocrypha
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Reply #191 on: February 28, 2014, 07:27:19 AM

Well, reading all of that, combined with some research today has convinced me I don't have ADD or anything more than superficial similarities to some of the aspects of that spectrum.

I'm probably just lazy and unmotivated!  awesome, for real

However, the degree to which my depression has been overwhelming my coping mechanisms over the last 6 months or so makes me think I should visit a GP again and discuss options.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
apocrypha
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Reply #192 on: March 29, 2014, 02:48:28 AM

Arise!

So, I did indeed go and speak with my GP. We discussed options, my history, etc, and I agreed to give medication a go. I've now been on citalopram (an SSRI) for just over a week. The side effects have been, as expected, quite marked and not pleasant, but they're starting to ease off I think. I know it'll take at least a month before there's any possible effect on my mental state of course.

She also recommended I read a book called 'Rescuing the "Inner Child": Therapy for Adults Sexually Abused as Children' by Penny Parks, not because I've been abused (I haven't) but because she says it can also be very helpful for long term depression sufferers. I've ordered it, despite it making me feel quite uncomfortable to do so for reasons I don't really understand, so I'll see if it helps at all.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Ironwood
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Reply #193 on: March 29, 2014, 05:19:55 AM

That's the one I was on.  Keep on through it, it helps.  However, be aware that it CAN help too much.  I went for an interview after quite a few months on it and the guys thought I was the most monosyllabic bore they've ever met.  Bit of a shame that one.  (also, frogs.  Have you seen the frogs yet ?)


Make sure someone external is monitoring how you are and can advise and make sure also you have an appointment booked to go see the GP after a period of time to continue the chat.  This is NOT just a 'keep medicating even after you feel better thing'. 

Good luck.



"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
apocrypha
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Reply #194 on: March 29, 2014, 07:04:50 AM

Thank you mate, good to hear.

No frogs, thankfully, lots of jaw clenching, jitteryness and nausea though. Also my eyes keep going bonkers and wibbling about all over the place! It's like being on cheap E without the dancey fun!

My wife is a constant source of support and balance, she's been great tbh. And yeah, GP appointment already booked for 1 week before I run out of the first month of pills :)

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #195 on: March 29, 2014, 07:52:19 AM

One important thing for me was to find something at the end of the day to help me unwind. Something simple and cathartic that helps me turn the "monkey-mind" off from going all over the place with bad thoughts.

That thing was minecraft. For some reason digging around is very soothing. Not even building, just the act of mining stuff. Simple, repetitive, and easy. Things like can sometimes help you relax.

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Signe
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Muse.


Reply #196 on: March 29, 2014, 10:48:09 AM

Pot.

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Miasma
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Reply #197 on: March 29, 2014, 10:59:00 AM

Thank you mate, good to hear.

No frogs, thankfully, lots of jaw clenching, jitteryness and nausea though. Also my eyes keep going bonkers and wibbling about all over the place! It's like being on cheap E without the dancey fun!

My wife is a constant source of support and balance, she's been great tbh. And yeah, GP appointment already booked for 1 week before I run out of the first month of pills :)
I kept yawning for no reason (zoloft).  It should actually start helping well before the one month mark, that is just something they say in case it doesn't have an effect on you and they need to change it.

Hope it works out, good luck.
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Reply #198 on: March 29, 2014, 08:54:51 PM

One important thing for me was to find something at the end of the day to help me unwind. Something simple and cathartic that helps me turn the "monkey-mind" off from going all over the place with bad thoughts.

This is known as whiskey.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
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Reply #199 on: March 29, 2014, 09:19:38 PM

One important thing for me was to find something at the end of the day to help me unwind. Something simple and cathartic that helps me turn the "monkey-mind" off from going all over the place with bad thoughts.

This is known as whiskey.
See, I have a family history of alcoholism, so I have never let drinking become part of my routine.  I need a special occasion to justify getting drunk.

--Dave (admittedly, sometimes the 'special occasion' was 'Tuesday')

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Abagadro
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Reply #200 on: March 29, 2014, 10:41:30 PM

Ok, I"ll qualify:

For ME, this is known as whiskey.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
apocrypha
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Reply #201 on: March 29, 2014, 11:35:44 PM

I gave up weed some years ago because firstly I really don't need anything else that impedes my motivation these days and secondly it wasn't helping with not smoking. I honestly don't miss it at all.

And I'll freely admit alcohol is already a problem for me. I drink too much, I'm trying to cut down. The citalopram is actually helping because it's making me nauseous which makes me not want a drink!  awesome, for real

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Paelos
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Reply #202 on: March 30, 2014, 07:11:31 AM

Obviously I meant something that wasn't a drug. Those can be crutches instead of just ways to unwind.

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apocrypha
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Reply #203 on: March 30, 2014, 08:00:38 AM

I know Paelos, I was replying to everyone else :)

While your suggestion is appreciated I can assure you that, having had depression for almost 30 years now, the solutions are more complex than learning to relax. I have worked with a number of different medial professionals - doctors, psychiatrists & counselors - over the decades and used a range of different approaches and therapies. This is the first time I've been prepared to try medication, and that's really because everything else has got as far as it can for me.

I'm actually quite good at relaxing, sometimes too good in many ways!

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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Reply #204 on: March 31, 2014, 09:25:20 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWRsgZuwf_8

I think that triggered and acute stress reaction in me...

I had heard it on the radio and came home Friday after working a day shift (I work nights so I had tried to flip my body), didn't get a work out in, didn't get to talk to any of the girls or guys I hang with, and decided to look up the video. I love/hate it. Made me cry. Then when I went to bed I had a dream that turned into a nightmare and then I couldn't sleep. Worse yet I had to go work day shift again Saturday. I was able to work but was really tired and flaky. We weren't busy so they sent me home early (thank God) and I went and changed and had a great work out and got to see my girlfriend. It made me sleep and dream again wonderfully. Fuck I think the past 25 years hit me the other night like a ton of bricks. I'm doing better. Not sure how it happened, but if it continues I'll have to go see the shrink...yes we are bastards that know we need it but don't want to go...probably why my community has a high PTSD and suicide rate...we know what we need to do, but don't want to do it.

The crazy part is that it isn't the patients, civilians, or combatants that died or couldn't be saved by my hands, but the loss of my friends, how they were hurt, injured, killed, or slipped into abuse or self destruction. I know I should feel remorse for hurting or not being able to help my enemies...maybe my demons have that part of me...but then I put on my boots and try every day to make someone's life better.

Engels
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inflicts shingles.


Reply #205 on: March 31, 2014, 10:49:20 AM

Jimbo, I don't know you real well, but of all the F13ers I know a little, I imagine that yer the last one that should be feeling guilty about anything. But it is curious that you say that people in your line of work want to tough out PTSD, as if that's something that happens to other people, but not you guys, since you're meant to be tough as nails at all times. Buddy, if a soldier can get PTSD, you sure as shit can too, since you probably see more violence-inflicted gore than most soldiers do.


I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
Ghambit
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Reply #206 on: March 31, 2014, 11:07:42 AM

Interesting TEDx on depression:
http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_solomon_depression_the_secret_we_share

It's proetic (via a writer) instead of empirical (from a researcher).

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
CmdrSlack
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WWW
Reply #207 on: March 31, 2014, 05:55:05 PM

Pot.

This. And whiskey. Mostly rye.

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
grebo
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Reply #208 on: April 03, 2014, 01:01:39 PM

Wow, didn't know this was here.  I'll add in my .02

I don't like SSRI's, my ex was on them for over a decade and they had a big hand in destroying my marriage.  They are only a good option once you are at the point where you can't cope anymore without them, and even then should be temporary IMO.

I don't like long term Benzo fixes for anxiety, I was on Klonopin for 4 years for mine and getting off it when it wasn't working so well anymore was a year of hell.  I'll never go back I don't care how bad the attacks are. 

A lot of stuff that makes up "you" is stuff that's beyond your control.  Accepting this and accepting who you are is a big key to finding your way out of a shitty place.  Do what works for you, you're the best person to know that and after all it's your life, take control of it.  Doctors are great and all but they have lots of patients and you're you all the time.


Why don't you try our other games?
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #209 on: April 14, 2014, 07:51:44 PM

Hrm, I avoided reading this thread for months specifically to avoid triggers. I'm cool at the moment, read the whole thing, only got mildly triggered on the few one-size-fits-all absolutist ignorant preachy types.

All the good advice has been said: get help, keep trying new helpers till you find GOOD help, exercise, sunshine (vitamin D), eat healthy, let your loved ones help you, love and care for others.

The one thing I'd add is, with the lifestyle stuff like exercise and eating habits, consider trying for incremental improvements rather than wholesale changes.  Again, everyone is different, and for some it may be easier to discard chips and sodas cold-turkey or join a gym and start 3 times a week 2 hour workouts.  But for me, especially when depressed, every failure is another decision point to give up or have to start all over and try again, even if the "failure" was only having one soda last week vs the 8 a day I used to drink.  By aiming simply to improve without specifying a fixed goal, as long as I do actually improve even the littlest bit then I can count that as a "success" instead of a "fail".  And I get all the psychological boost of feeling good about the success which makes it even easier to keep going and improve a little more the next time, PLUS any of the benefits from actually having, you know, improved something!

So, story time.  I'll just share a couple items instead of a complete history.

Context: I'm in the US, dealing with its shitty healthcare system first as a near indigent (unemployed and almost broke), now with decent health insurance. I was clinically depressed, have PTSD, either AD(H)D or mild bipolar, and anxiety attacks.  I also have hereditary high blood pressure issues and a mild heart condition (A-fib) along with many allergies and celiac disease, so I have to medicate like crazy yet be super careful with what meds I take.

I fired my pill-pushing shrink just before he'd checked off enough different boxes on the diagnosis chart for me to draw a diagonal line through them and yell bingo, after I discovered through a government/press transparency report that he made more money from the maker of Cymbalta for presentations at seminars than he did from his practice, and had been censured by the state medical board. He also already had me on one med to counteract the side effects of Cymbalta and was pushing me to add TWO more!  But the man may well have saved my life, or at the very least rescued me before I completely ruined it. I definitely needed meds to break out of the cycle and get going again.  So, the Dr and advice you need at one stage of your journey may well not be the best for the next stage!

Zoloft worked great for me.  Cymbalta is the devil incarnate.  Prozac made getting off the Cymbalta survivable.  Wellbutrin might as well have been placebo. Ritalin made my heart race too much to see if it helped.  Xanax works so very well for the anxiety that I'm scared to death of it and probably don't take it as often as I should.  My current bottle expired a couple years ago, so no, I'm not abusing it!  It's the only brain med I've taken for 3 or 4 years now, as needed (sometimes), but if I relapse I will consent to Zoloft or Prozac again, but not Cymbalta.   Some people need the meds for life, some just need them once to get out of a bad life slump, and some go back and forth, on and off.  Every single person is different, and will react to each of these differently.  Competent, caring professional help that is constantly monitoring is crucial. So is loving personal support, and I ache for those who lack that, and for those who have it but are too depressed to recognize or respond to it.  But Cymbalta is still evil and any Dr. who prescribes it before first trying EVERY SINGLE OTHER OPTION just hasn't done his/her homework.  My one nod to conspiracy theories is don't trust ANYTHING approved by the Bush administration FDA - they were completely bought tools of the pharmaceutical industry.  Always follow the money.

I went through, um, 8? therapists in 5 years. Most of them had one-size-fits-all assembly-line "solutions", usually that CBT stuff which didn't work for me but I see the value of it for many situations. Just not mine.  One wonderful gentleman though was wise enough and flexible enough and brave enough to explore and poke until we found the real source of the pain.  He retired before we actually resolved anything, but my trajectory has been going the right direction ever since and stuff he told me still pops into my head and helps now several years later.  Oddly, possibly matching my own oddness, most of the stuff he said that helped was questions, not answers/solutions/instructions/etc.

The single most effective treatment I received may well have been group therapy in a group of mostly seriously messed up people, many of whom were the collateral damage discards of our society.  Truly wonderful folks except for a couple who were truly horrible people. I was a mess myself and spiraling down and thought I could see the bottom and it was ugly.  I was wrong.  I saw what they were going through, saw what some of the real deeps looked like and pretty much like the time I walked on water to get out of the surf when a shark bellied up to me I decided then and there I was getting out of there.  It still took years, and meds, and therapy, and lifestyle changes, and counseling, and lots and lots of love and support, but at least from that point on I was actively trying to hold on and later help swim up and not just a dead weight too helpless to even grab for the life preserver.

If you do go meds, don't get off them too soon, and don't stay on them too long.  Get a second professional opinion, just like you would before you had an amputation.  Your brain is more important than your arm!

Yes, meds are a crutch.  So is insulin for a diabetic and so are crutches to someone with a broken leg!  Duh!

oops, I forgot that talking about depression and anxiety is one of my triggers for anxiety!  awesome, for real  Oh well, guess I'll stop now before the wall-o-text falls over in a heap.

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
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