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Khaldun
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Reply #455 on: September 23, 2017, 07:33:03 PM

It doesn't matter what other people want. It matters what you want to do--that feels as if you are deciding to do it, as opposed to having it done to you/for you.
calapine
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Reply #456 on: September 24, 2017, 07:13:56 AM

Ya, it was a good post. It almost sounds like your social worker wanted you to get angry and stand up for yourself.

*hug*

I doubt that. It's his modus operandi since always. I feel it's really time to find a new place, preferably own flat. But that's also an income issue for me.

It doesn't matter what other people want. It matters what you want to do--that feels as if you are deciding to do it, as opposed to having it done to you/for you.


100% true. The latter is also very self-confidence destroying over a long run.

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Soln
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Reply #457 on: September 25, 2017, 11:04:40 PM

Cal, you do realize that your command of the English language is better that some US Presidents?  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?  I understand many folks are bilingual/trilingual in Europe, but maybe there's something you could do with that skill?  You write well.  Hang in there regardless.  /fistbbump
Khaldun
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Reply #458 on: September 27, 2017, 06:37:10 PM

Though to be fair, the {better than current US President} {command of English} returns a pretty large percentage of humanity. So we need to say {way better than US President with English language} {honest and observant generally} {knows a ton about space} {eye-opening descriptions of possible posting to f13.net practices} and we have delivered a more on-target assessment of skills.
calapine
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Reply #459 on: December 28, 2017, 07:11:41 PM

Does anyone have any practical tips on how to get out of an acute phase of feeling lonely?

(Probably not just me looking for an answer)

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Paelos
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Reply #460 on: December 28, 2017, 08:24:01 PM

Does anyone have any practical tips on how to get out of an acute phase of feeling lonely?

(Probably not just me looking for an answer)

Yep. Here's some things I've done in the past that worked.

1 - Clean up where you're living. I've found that the act of cleaning can often help break me out of my general funks, clutter tended to dampen my moods and make me notice my things that were lacking.
2 - Go Outside. Force yourself to get out of the house for no reason. If nothing else, walk around the area, the parks, places where people congregate but you feel absolutely no reason to interact with them. The act of being around people helped me.
3 - Make a list of the thoughts you're feeling. Make a list of your fears and say them out loud. Often bottling up these emotions makes them more real than speaking them aloud. Getting the emotions out, even by yourself, was helpful.
4 - Consider volunteering for something. Showing up to do some charitable work can make you feel better by looking beyond your own struggles to the struggles of others, and create meaningful bonds in the process.
5 - Consider going to a place of worship. Many times, people look to faith to help with their loneliness or isolation to help find a community. Many have smaller groups if the idea of getting involved in something larger is scary.
6 - Evaluate your living situation and see if a roommate might help. I went to live with relatives as a roommate for a year when I was going through my deepest issues. Being around them really helped, simply by knowing someone was there.
7 - Realize your loneliness is a feeling that is created by a desire for others. It's natural and it's healthy to feel lonely at times, because it's supposed to inspire us to go meet and commune with others.
8 - Realize that screens and social communities can really just be a crutch or substitution for true connection and intimacy. We can get some things online, but we need to venture beyond the screens when we're ready.
9 - Understand nothing is permanent. You will not feel this way forever. There are things you can do. There are actions you can take. You are not the worst things you've thought about yourself, and there are people out there you can connect with.
10 - Move in stages. If you're not comfortable, take small steps. If you're more comfortable, throw yourself into something you never thought you could do. You'll often be surprised at how forgiving and cool most people are.

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Reply #461 on: December 29, 2017, 12:59:06 AM

I've always kept very few friends but I've never really felt terribly lonely past awkward teenage years as I've always had insanely time consuming hobbies that require I concentrate. Games used to be that but I demand more of a challenge for myself these days.

Also, a clean space.

So, I'm either not a lonely person by nature or have coincidentally staved off any chance of medically relevant loneliness.
Polysorbate80
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Reply #462 on: December 29, 2017, 10:03:50 PM

I usually have the opposite problemI find myself wishing people would go away and leave me some peace and quiet.  Keeping busy helps, reading or building stuff or cleaning til Im too tired to care.  Between the house, property and work theres always more to do than I can keep up with.

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Mandella
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Reply #463 on: December 30, 2017, 12:02:21 PM

That is an incredibly comprehensive list from Paelos. I would add to four and five that getting involved in any sort of structured outside activity can be great. Something that puts you out with other people, but doesn't demand social activity (or at least lets you set your own pace). Open mic nights, poetry readings, trivia nights can put you in relatively undemanding social scenes. If you don't like the bar scene, then consider signing up for art/pottery classes, or theater (not all involved in community theater are actors -- they need stage hands prop makers and costumers and makeup too). Hiking/biking groups if you are into the outdoors.

I just realized that my suggestions fit more with "things to do if you are lonely but have agoraphobia and/or other social anxiety," but write what you know I guess...

I would also add an 11) Grow older. Honestly, the above used to be me but now I'm married with grandkid I'm more Polysorbate80 -- where did my alone time go!?
 swamp poop

Also a 12) -- Get married.   awesome, for real
Khaldun
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Reply #464 on: January 10, 2018, 12:01:47 PM

I found this essay by Johann Hari about his upcoming book pretty interesting. It certainly speaks to one of the major reasons I don't want to seek conventional therapy--because I think it presupposes that my issue is chemical and needs chemical fixing, when maybe I'm just reacting to the way the world is and the way my world within that world is, without much ability to change the circumstances of either.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/07/is-everything-you-think-you-know-about-depression-wrong-johann-hari-lost-connections
Sir T
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Reply #465 on: January 10, 2018, 06:57:18 PM

Yeah, a psychologist once said to me that my depression is perfectly rational considering the things that happened to me, and that the only irrational thing is why I hadn't killed myself. He didn't mean it badly, he just meant that he regards suicide as a very rational thing to do sometimes, and that people have the strength to keep going most of the time is a truly amazing thing.

I was assessed for having Asperger's a couple of years ago, and after a LOOONG series of questionnaires, and interviews with my family, she said that it was inconclusive, as the amount of Trauma that I had suffered would cause the symptoms of the Autistic spectrum regardless of whether I had it or not. Good times!

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Ironwood
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Reply #466 on: January 11, 2018, 06:20:52 AM


Also a 12) -- Get married.   awesome, for real

Do not do this;  it is folly.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Sir T
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Reply #467 on: January 11, 2018, 07:33:25 AM

And not with 10,000 men could they drag you out!

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
calapine
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Reply #468 on: January 13, 2018, 05:13:13 PM

I posted in Awesome pictures, but drinking wine I got rambling and went too personal for a pic thread. I don't want to delete though, so ill put ill copy paste it here.





I was at an exhibiton today, saw the picture below. Luckily I found it online as high res, definitly wil lget that printed as painting:



To me the style seems so...familar. And nothing like a painting for 1926


The surreal part (I found out only after when googling) is that the artist, Klemens Brosch, was an Upper Austrian, who lead a rather tragic life and killed himself, at age 32, in the same year as the painting.

He and his wife Johanna both fell into Morhpin addiction, in his case it started during WW1. (Galicia, now Ukraine/Hungary, back then border to Russia)





Edit: He subjected himself to two failed morphin withdrawal therapies at what was then Landes-Irrenanstalt Niedernhart-Linz (State Asylum Niernhart-Linz). The same I stayed in. I even recognize the layout as the clinic got extended around the old core, not rebuilt. From the station I stayed (in the old part) it I looked down at the front of the church. Freaky.





I think it shows he was a child of the war. His method of suicde was using a gas mask filled with chloroform. Think I am going to visit the place he killed himself
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 05:14:45 PM by calapine »

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calapine
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Reply #469 on: January 13, 2018, 08:09:00 PM

btw, all the plaes patients stays in are up to date and modernised.

But for example my therapist lost her room to free it up for renovation and now has her office in and old-building wing that is at 1960 standard and then was the closed station.

So you have rooms with super high ceilings, but the corridors are rather small, and all the windows are have 1960-prison-style steel bars. And if you go there by lift you enter into a big central room, parted by wood walls, you see wher the "nurse station" aka reception area was.  Now totally deserted. At the ends of the room is a big window, but old-school, note one glass pane, but seperated into 3x3 windows. With old school dual-windows (do you americans know them?)



Omce you are in the middle of the central room there are two corridors branching off. Both closed with wooden doors with mesh wire glass.

like this:



Just not as big, just a window-inlay in a door.

The right corridor is closed off. When you go into the left you pass 4 offices with similar massive wooden doors and mesh glass.

The corridor ends with another (normal!) glass window with steel bars, and to the right a wooden door with (mesh glass) inlet. Which is her office.

On the first appointment there I joked to her she that must not be in good graces with the boss.

The office window is barred too. But the room itself is nicley high. Twice the hight of  door you go in.

---

Ill try to provide some pictures next time I go there.

Edit: I just read my own post and holy shit I do I sound truck..........

« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 08:11:01 PM by calapine »

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Sir T
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Reply #470 on: January 13, 2018, 11:17:47 PM

That is an amazing painting. What a sad story, and that seems like it was a terrible place.

That "high ceiling with small rooms" style seems to have been an in thing here in Ireland too. A woman I know in Dublin lives in what was once an old British Army Barracks, and the ceilings are really really high on it. Basically where she lives used to be a dormitory for the infantry, but they split it up into rooms and left the old staircases, which are way too steep for old people and have been worn down over the decades, so she can barely use them.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
calapine
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Reply #471 on: January 15, 2018, 10:38:58 PM

Ok, looking at the images from today, maybe I exaggerated a bit. But the place still has a nice special aura:






« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 10:41:17 PM by calapine »

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Polysorbate80
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Reply #472 on: June 29, 2018, 09:32:55 PM

Came home early from work planning to get shit done here at home , but wound up drinking and passing out feeling overwhelmed and sleeping all afternoon instead.  Its no the first time ive felt like Im in over my head.  Might be time to go talk to the doc but Im also afraid to go on the record admitting personal issues...

Why the fuck would you ... ? is like 80% of the conversation with Poly Chimpy
Tale
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Reply #473 on: June 29, 2018, 10:01:04 PM

Came home early from work planning to get shit done here at home , but wound up drinking and passing out feeling overwhelmed and sleeping all afternoon instead.  Its no the first time ive felt like Im in over my head.  Might be time to go talk to the doc but Im also afraid to go on the record admitting personal issues...

Don't be afraid of that.

I went to my doctor when I was not coping with grief in 2011. He referred me to a psychologist near my workplace, who I saw for two batches of appointments until 2013. Nobody knows it happened except the doctor, the psychologist and me (and anyone close to me whom I've chosen to tell).

My employer now actually offers that to staff. If they are sensible they would prefer that you receive help and be able to do your job, rather than have it affect you more.
Sir T
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Reply #474 on: June 30, 2018, 03:48:18 PM

Makes sense. Healing staff are more productive so it's a win win for everyone.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
lamaros
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Reply #475 on: July 02, 2018, 08:27:55 AM

Life continues to be interesting, with my partner having been diagnosed with chronic fatigue post anorexia recovery. Who knows where it will end, heopfully we can come out the other side with some peace.

Good employers make a huge difference. Her situation isn't worst case and she can still work a bit, but only because they've let her work from home three days a week and change her hours to part time. As it is one of the most difficult thing the condition is bringing (aside from constant pain and tiredness) is the loneliness of being house bound most of the time. Getting a dog at the start of the year proved to be a very good thing for helping with this, but having a workplace and a job is ineffably important.

The endless meetings with Doctors and specialists continue. Thyroid condition, then depression, anorexia, anxiety, then now coeliac disease, and chronic fatigue. I don't know how she - and other people who get such dud hands in life - manage to do it.

And I can't imagine how people who are less well off than us with worse support ever get through things like this. The emotional and physical drain is enough, I can't imagine being overwhelmed by financial pressure too.

Came home early from work planning to get shit done here at home , but wound up drinking and passing out feeling overwhelmed and sleeping all afternoon instead.  Its no the first time ive felt like Im in over my head.  Might be time to go talk to the doc but Im also afraid to go on the record admitting personal issues...

I've struggled to commit to going to see someone to talk about how my situation has impacted on me too. I know I should, and that it would help both of us. But it's still hard to find the time and energy to get someone good and useful... and also a bit of stubbornness on my part about thinking I can figure it out...

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Polysorbate80
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Reply #476 on: March 14, 2019, 07:58:20 PM

Time for an update:

It got to the point people close to me started to give hints that I was being extremely short-tempered.  Id noticed it myself, but thought I was hiding it better than I was.  So before I turned into that asshole boss everyone wants to get rid of, or wound up causing a family crisis,  I went in to talk to the doctor.

Full disclosure, I really should still talk to a therapist, but there are things I will never, ever say to them.  Not because those things are objectively bad, but because one of my problems is still distrust of authority and a bit of paranoia.

However, Prozac is helping.  Im lucky in that it had extremely mild side effects (the first couple days I had *too* much energy, and a bit of flu-like joint pain) but it really keeps my thoughts from spiralling into a hole.  I dont feel numb, but I can break away from negative thoughts now.

The one potential issue I see is possibly increased unintentional aggressiveness.  I find myself being not angry or upset, but arguing things I normally would be afraid to even mention.  Thats had mixed resultsI have been too reserved and afraid to speak up, but I worry it could easily go into full-Slog jerk dumbass argument mode without really being aware of it.  Im still adapting to the meds, so if Im a dick please tell me; I need to recalibrate a bit.

Why the fuck would you ... ? is like 80% of the conversation with Poly Chimpy
Sir T
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Reply #477 on: March 22, 2019, 03:04:46 PM

One of the things I find withthe stuff I am on is that I feel my emotions are very damped down. I can go through days without smiling, but I don;t feel as bad as I used to.

However, it does mean that when emotions do come through I cant deal with them. I have anxiety about being with people, and I spend most of my time on my own. I try my best to get out to a support group meeting, and every Tuesday morning last year I would be curled up in bed not able to leave. So the end of last year I called the organiser and she was lovely. So I've been going to the support group since and find it good.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
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Reply #478 on: April 11, 2019, 10:07:28 PM

I've been taking Prozac continuously since 2010 so I have no idea if it's still helping or if it stopped working and I've just become used to my strange brain.  I'm reclusive but I've always been reclusive (as are most of my relatives on my Dad's side) so nothing has ever changed in that respect.  Since the demise of my marriage, I have never been, nor will I ever be in a romantic relationship again.  Anyway, I do try and come up with ways to make myself a wee tiny bit happier.  Like subbing to a brand new game.  That hasn't happened in ages, though, and when it does it doesn't last very long.  Although I don't have great focus generally, I blame that squarely on the state of MMOs.  My latest way to ease my mind when I get anxious or have a bout of panic is I say to myself, "at least I don't have bees in my eye".  Srsly.  This is a thing. 

Days are longer, brighter and sometimes warmer.  That helps, too, although not as much as not having bees in my eye. 

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Soln
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Reply #479 on: April 11, 2019, 10:15:17 PM

And you have us!  awesome, for real swamp poop awesome, for real
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Reply #480 on: April 11, 2019, 10:20:51 PM

Heres to not having bees in your eyes!

I just started researching CBD treatments for my anxiety. This has been fun, trying to find the dose that keeps me from being too stony. Its such a wide open area.
calapine
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Reply #481 on: April 17, 2019, 03:51:47 PM

Days are longer, brighter and sometimes warmer.  That helps, too, although not as much as not having bees in my eye.  

Don't forget you are awesome. You have this mysterious aura I wish I had and am jealous off.

Hawkbit: It's not as fun as pot but quetiapine really worked well with my anxiety. Can recommend.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 03:53:57 PM by calapine »

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Rasix
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Reply #482 on: April 18, 2019, 12:45:01 PM

Works well, but that stuff put 15 pounds on me. I think I lost the weight in 2 weeks when I was able to ween off it.

It was supplementary, so it was easy just to move to something else for helping me sleep. Of course, it's nice when your psychiatrist doesn't tell you the other reason you were on it.  rolleyes

-Rasix
calapine
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Reply #483 on: April 20, 2019, 05:23:33 PM

Works well, but that stuff put 15 pounds on me. I think I lost the weight in 2 weeks when I was able to ween off it.

Yeah, that sucks. I am super paranoid about that and count calories. Still better than my DIY sleep medication of white wine. (Haven't read the books, but didn't Cersei get fat from her alcoholism?)

Is there a word for the type of loneliness where you don't really think "I feel lonely" but feel starved for human contact and attention? Kind of having that now. :/

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Reply #484 on: April 20, 2019, 05:37:51 PM

edited,  because incoherent and even dumber than my usual derp.  Sorry.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 12:06:47 PM by Polysorbate80 »

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calapine
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Reply #485 on: May 01, 2019, 08:40:07 PM

I started this in the Useless Discussion tree as drunk reminiscence about MMORPs, but the it turned rather personal halfway and bit sexual at the end. Overall too private for that thread. It's not about depression either though, so I am putting it in spoilers.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 12:26:54 AM by calapine »

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Polysorbate80
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Reply #486 on: May 01, 2019, 10:27:56 PM

Actually the risk is youll wake up hungover.  Drink some water, young lady.

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Kail
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Reply #487 on: May 03, 2019, 02:43:58 AM

Is there a word for the type of loneliness where you don't really think "I feel lonely" but feel starved for human contact and attention? Kind of having that now. :/

I kept meaning to say thanks for posting this, but never got around to it.  So, thanks.  Was having a rough bit and for whatever reason this phrase really helped crystallize things.

Don't know if this is what you meant, but I feel like it's not so much that I want company, but I want to be valued by someone (without having to do anything crass like 'earn it'). Like, I don't mind being alone, but I wish someone else minded, if that makes any sense.

In movies there's always the character who's like "I'm a lone wolf I do my own thing grr" and everyone else is like "no, we need you, we're a team, etc." and they learn the value of friendship or some crap and you think "wow, that lone wolf character looks so cool and aloof".

Then in real life you go "I'm a lone wolf and I do my own thing grr" and everyone else immediately finds someone else to replace you and you feel like an idiot sitting in the corner by yourself.  It's a lot less dramatic being a loner when the rest of the world is just cool with never seeing you again.
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Reply #488 on: May 03, 2019, 06:56:29 AM

As Eeyore says, Thanks for noticing me.

I hate being the center of attention, but I also hate when people ignore me.  WTF?

Mostly I wind up keeping emotionally distant from others so they lack the power to hurt me, I guess.

Why the fuck would you ... ? is like 80% of the conversation with Poly Chimpy
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Reply #489 on: May 03, 2019, 06:56:57 AM

Is there a word for the type of loneliness where you don't really think "I feel lonely" but feel starved for human contact and attention? Kind of having that now. :/

I kept meaning to say thanks for posting this, but never got around to it.  So, thanks.  Was having a rough bit and for whatever reason this phrase really helped crystallize things.

Don't know if this is what you meant, but I feel like it's not so much that I want company, but I want to be valued by someone (without having to do anything crass like 'earn it'). Like, I don't mind being alone, but I wish someone else minded, if that makes any sense.

In movies there's always the character who's like "I'm a lone wolf I do my own thing grr" and everyone else is like "no, we need you, we're a team, etc." and they learn the value of friendship or some crap and you think "wow, that lone wolf character looks so cool and aloof".

Then in real life you go "I'm a lone wolf and I do my own thing grr" and everyone else immediately finds someone else to replace you and you feel like an idiot sitting in the corner by yourself.  It's a lot less dramatic being a loner when the rest of the world is just cool with never seeing you again.

This is me right now.  I don't suffer from depression, but this you wrote right here describes my life pretty well.  I bet it is fairly common.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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