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Author Topic: EQ Next Landmark - It's Like Minecraft But Not™  (Read 332656 times)
01101010
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Reply #490 on: March 28, 2014, 08:52:43 AM

Put me on the list of people who will beg for a key - but only after the really serious interested people because I am curious, but not intensely.  awesome, for real

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Sky
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Reply #491 on: March 28, 2014, 09:06:40 AM

3 claims to your name, but about 9 claims attached to each other and with shared permissions, so if anything it's like 9 postage stamps. Hard to call that a small area to build on.
Have you played minecraft?

I'm interested in where Landmark is going, but it's quite limited right now and I don't think it will ever become the platform minecraft has become.
Signe
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Muse.


Reply #492 on: March 28, 2014, 09:09:47 AM

So, what the hell do I do in this?  awesome, for real  How do I find you people?

Haemish sent me a invite and I accepted and now he's on my list.  I'm Signe in the game (wut a surprise).  Hopefully you don't have to be on the same server but I don't know yet.  I'm on Rebellion.  I saw a player named Phred but wasn't sure if it was our Phred so I didn't invite him.  I'm shy that way and I never see him here anymore. 

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
HaemishM
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Reply #493 on: March 28, 2014, 10:07:56 AM

3 claims to your name, but about 9 claims attached to each other and with shared permissions, so if anything it's like 9 postage stamps. Hard to call that a small area to build on.

So to build a fuckstupid large plot, you make 3 claim flags, then 9 more attached claim flags?

Wasted
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Reply #494 on: March 28, 2014, 02:20:35 PM

I want to like this, I was excited at first but the resource gathering sends me to sleep and I just can't deal with it.
taolurker
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Reply #495 on: March 28, 2014, 04:36:04 PM

Down for hotfix.. ETA was 2hrs, so 1 hr left?

« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 04:38:44 PM by taolurker »


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01101010
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Reply #496 on: March 28, 2014, 04:51:20 PM

Thanks Signe !   Heart Heart

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Venkman
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Reply #497 on: March 28, 2014, 06:41:35 PM

3 claims to your name, but about 9 claims attached to each other and with shared permissions, so if anything it's like 9 postage stamps. Hard to call that a small area to build on.
Have you played minecraft?

I'm interested in where Landmark is going, but it's quite limited right now and I don't think it will ever become the platform minecraft has become.

Very different things though. Deja vu or maybe I just had this conversation in my head, but EQNL is probably  how Minecraft probably would have launched if an established publisher had launched it. Closed systems with abilities you gain and limitations you surpass through e-commerce are how you get consistent predictable business models. SOE has said the right things about how they won't bludgeon us over the head with MTX opportunities. But we're just entering the next phase of the pre-launch title.

Regardless, the point is they weren't looking to build a platform everyone else could expand upon while maybe or not getting some of that money back. They are building a platform they can build upon and make money doing so.
taolurker
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Reply #498 on: March 28, 2014, 08:33:49 PM

I seriously don't see this as something a company can build an action oriented MMO on though, which is what I think bothers me most about it. There's too little focus on the things that will matter when you populate the world with mobs/npcs. Everything I see is a cause of lag, and if you add character customization through armor/weapons, it will equal a slideshow.

Just a small list:
1. No Draw Distance Radius limitation
2. Waving Trees/Grasses
3. Resource Nodes
4. Build-able and deformable terrain
5. Large zones, with aforementioned draw
6. Numerous Animations (which will only worsen with attacks/magic added in)
7. Names over player's heads (seriously why can't I turn these off?)



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Rasix
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Reply #499 on: March 28, 2014, 09:36:59 PM

Messed around a bit.  It was neat, but having to grind out a claim flag and a port stone is a bit of a turn off. 

Can you rebind the "use tool" action to something other than left click?  Or is there a way to let it swing in the target area without having to hold the button down the entire time?  My click arm needs a bit of a break.

-Rasix
01101010
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Reply #500 on: March 29, 2014, 04:14:54 AM

On Serenity Rebellion - wandering nomad making holes and clear cutting. I think I am starting to cause global warming. Name is the same: 01101010

edit: misread the server I was on.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 09:01:31 AM by 01101010 »

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Tmon
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Reply #501 on: March 29, 2014, 04:31:54 AM

Messed around a bit.  It was neat, but having to grind out a claim flag and a port stone is a bit of a turn off. 

Can you rebind the "use tool" action to something other than left click?  Or is there a way to let it swing in the target area without having to hold the button down the entire time?  My click arm needs a bit of a break.

No way to change key bindings currently, it's on the list of stuff to be added before CBT ends.  One work around for mouse button fatigue I've seen is to turn on click lock when you are out harvesting.
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Reply #502 on: March 29, 2014, 05:59:23 AM

Messed around a bit.  It was neat, but having to grind out a claim flag and a port stone is a bit of a turn off.  

Can you rebind the "use tool" action to something other than left click?  Or is there a way to let it swing in the target area without having to hold the button down the entire time?  My click arm needs a bit of a break.

Turn on click lock in Windows when playing Landmark. It's that or a "hold button" macro on a programmable mouse.

Nice to see some additional criticisms showing up. Here I was thinking I was being unreasonable with all the folks rushing to defend previously.  why so serious?

I want to like this, I was excited at first but the resource gathering sends me to sleep and I just can't deal with it.

This is why I stopped. It was bad enough when all the resources were on the surface, but to combine burying them with slow excavation and a huge grind? Nope, thanks. Money wasted on my part.

Engine's pretty though.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 06:01:21 AM by Merusk »

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Signe
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Muse.


Reply #503 on: March 29, 2014, 05:08:21 PM

EQ Hammer has a nice list of machines and the mats you need to make them:

Fiddly List

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Reply #504 on: March 31, 2014, 07:40:01 AM

3 claims to your name, but about 9 claims attached to each other and with shared permissions, so if anything it's like 9 postage stamps. Hard to call that a small area to build on.
Have you played minecraft?

I'm interested in where Landmark is going, but it's quite limited right now and I don't think it will ever become the platform minecraft has become.

I have played only an hour of the beta, as compared to maybe 40 hours of the alpha.  It's a novel product but not one I'm going to stick with for two reasons. 

First, the grind to get things is too great.  I went to build something, maybe a tungsten pick.  I had all the items I need except for an item that doesn't grow in my zone.  So the only ways to get it are to hike to a new zone that has a biome that isn't labelled, or to maybe buy it off the marketplace.  The options are there, I'm just not interested in either.

Second, Minecraft is about building things that do things.  Landmark is about building things to look at things.  There's little to no function at this point which was the appeal of Minecraft.
01101010
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Reply #505 on: March 31, 2014, 08:10:23 AM

I have played only an hour of the beta, as compared to maybe 40 hours of the alpha.  It's a novel product but not one I'm going to stick with for two reasons. 

First, the grind to get things is too great.  I went to build something, maybe a tungsten pick.  I had all the items I need except for an item that doesn't grow in my zone.  So the only ways to get it are to hike to a new zone that has a biome that isn't labelled, or to maybe buy it off the marketplace.  The options are there, I'm just not interested in either.

Second, Minecraft is about building things that do things.  Landmark is about building things to look at things.  There's little to no function at this point which was the appeal of Minecraft.

Rumor has it on 'the list' at SOE that all types of resources will be available on all islands at some point. So tiers will be going away...at least tiered islands. I am too new to comment on the second point since I just gave it a whirl this weekend. Made me lose track of time often enough to stick.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Sky
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Reply #506 on: March 31, 2014, 08:12:22 AM

For new folks: just build on a tier 3 island. After the first couple days the only reason to be on a tier 1 or 2 is that the tier 3 islands were fully claimed. So tiers going away is a pretty obvious thing to do.
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #507 on: March 31, 2014, 09:14:08 AM

Personally, I'm really happy with my spot on a Tier 1 island as I can go out my front door to harvest the copper I need to pay upkeep. But even better yet is its proximity to the portal. The 10+ minute hike between my alpha claim in the corner of a T2 island and the portal in the middle just about killed the game for me after a couple of weeks. And tier 3 islands look like some weird candyland landscape in the distance beyond tree-drawing range - hideous.

All of those considerations will be changed with the next claim wipe though, assuming they do caves, standing water, vertically dispersed minerals, and ley-line transportation hubs all in one go.

I don't think there are currently ANY islands even close to full now, and yesterday I was on one with only three claims on it!

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
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Reply #508 on: March 31, 2014, 09:20:14 AM

I downloaded, installed and then tried to mine enough copper for a pick upgrade. I gave up after 20 mins as I realized the slog ahead of me and noticed the same thing about lack of claims.  I wonder how many said "meh" and haven't come back after the wipe.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Reply #509 on: March 31, 2014, 09:47:24 AM

Are there any islands that feature rolling hills rather than mountains  and gorges?
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #510 on: March 31, 2014, 09:50:41 AM

Right now I think there are only three things to do in the game. Sightseeing, harvesting, and building.

Harvesting is interesting for a time, but gets old, then tedious after a time. And the way it gates your ability to build, from materials to tools to claim flags even is incredibly off-putting if you just want to get on with building. Presonally I kind of enjoyed the grind to get up to the top tier of tools and resources, and now I'm tired of it. Total elapsed time less than a week on this second time through.

Building is also a mixed bag. The tools are quirky, the selection tool is pretty much mandatory but is one of the hardest to get, and the UI continually fights you from the bullshit claim info pulldown that's in your face when you least need it, to horrible mechanics for placing schematics, to limited max zoom range, to being stuck on the ground or having to fiddle with grappling hook instead of flying (the devs cheat and fly while they build btw, adding salt to that wound!), to lack of scaling info on props, to having the props misaligned vs the voxel grid so you have to tweak EVERY SINGLE DAMN PROP YOU PLACE or have it about 5 degrees crooked from the walls and such.
 
So random tourism, with painful travel. You can wander around and see a few dumb things and a few meh things (mine included) and a surpising number of spectacular builds that impress all the more knowing the tools they had to use, but can depress if you aren't careful knowing how much time and imagination it takes.




Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #511 on: March 31, 2014, 09:56:39 AM

Are there any islands that feature rolling hills rather than mountains  and gorges?

Yes? No island really "features" any one thing.  All islands have two bio/temperature biomes and have a range of terrain features jumbled together. Most have most terrain features I can think of at least.  I know I've seen areas with rolling hills at least a couple of times.  NE quadrant of Shield has some I think.

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
HaemishM
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Reply #512 on: March 31, 2014, 10:08:16 AM

The crafting grind is really REALLY severe. There needs to be a lot more documentation in the client as well as recipes that you can reference without having to go to the proper crafting station.

That said, the building part is really engrossing.

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Reply #513 on: March 31, 2014, 10:14:49 AM

So, do I need a bronze pick for aquamarine or not?  The resources online seem to be behind the current beta build.

-Rasix
01101010
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Reply #514 on: March 31, 2014, 10:22:39 AM

So, do I need a bronze pick for aquamarine or not?  The resources online seem to be behind the current beta build.

Iron I believe. Bronze is out AFAIK.


Do we need to hang onto these old tools?

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
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Reply #515 on: March 31, 2014, 12:03:16 PM

So, do I need a bronze pick for aquamarine or not?  The resources online seem to be behind the current beta build.
If you have a founders pick, you don't need anything else until the iron pick. There is at least one pick between stone and iron, i forget if it's copper or bronze (or both).  Sorry I don't recall exactly which pick does what now, and yes everything changed between alpha and beta. Smokejumper made a post last week on suggested beta first steps, and I think he was 100% correct, including the two rings of discovery. You can skip the crafting stations at first if you find someone else's conveniently available. I have all publicly usable stations (more efficient stations can be made but cannot be shared, they are only usable by the.owner, no matter what your claim permissions are) availabe on my claim just SW of the portal on Courage - Shield.

On the topic of harvesting tool progression in general, upgrade as soon as you possibly can, and get to the top tier ASAP, then go back and get lower tier resources for whatever other things you need using the powerful fun top tier tools instead of the clunky slow same tier tools. And if you get a really sucky roll for a poor quality tool, consider carefully if you will actually need it long enough to be worth the time it takes to grind out another hopefully better one. Axes may be an exception to this. If you have a founders pickaxe which can currently harvest every tree in the game albeit slowly, it may not be worth diverting time and resources to making anything but the highest tier axe.

Speed is a very useful tool characteristic now, far more than strength or range or size. Rolls for the rare Elemental whatnots are made per swing, not per volume of material recovered. So if you are spending any time at all searching for or moving to or competing for a rare-yielding node, it is more important to maximize the number of times you roll for the rare at each node rather than how much of the node you deplete with each swing. This is a stupid a stupid implementation, we shall see if they fix it as they are working on how almost all the stats and attributes work still.
 
I love my rubicite axe. It's green but still twice as fast as by founders pickaxe.

I also love my mithril pick. It's green too I think but has +12 Discovery. Mining copper I get an elemental copper from almost every swing. Of course i have no use for elemental copper anymore, and i do NOT get so many elemental mithrils when mining it, so not sure what good it is.

Harvesting in a group is fun, but only with people you trust to do their part or who you want to help. I haven.t run the numbers to see how much (if any!) bonus material is generated while harvesting in a group. But I'm pretty sure the results of each harvest swing are distributed evenly among the group members in range. Thus the only with friends bit. Single item drops like the rares go to one person at a time, eithrr randomly or in rotation, I'm not sure which. And if the quantity is increased.by group members being near, it certainly isn't doubled as i found chopping trees i often didn't get the rare at the end! So if you are grouped with a deadbeat (like my grandson!) playing around while you are slaving away, they will siphon off some, possibly up to half, of your results without you benefitting at all!

The group harvest stuff only works for party members within about a two claim radius of you. You can tell if each member is or is not close enough in the party HUD, a little group icon lights up under their name when they are close enough.

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Tmon
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Reply #516 on: March 31, 2014, 08:26:16 PM

Are there any islands that feature rolling hills rather than mountains  and gorges?

Yes? No island really "features" any one thing.  All islands have two bio/temperature biomes and have a range of terrain features jumbled together. Most have most terrain features I can think of at least.  I know I've seen areas with rolling hills at least a couple of times.  NE quadrant of Shield has some I think.


I'll poke around some more, I'm actually kind of happy with my ridge top claim on Valley, but so far every Island I've been on seems be mostly jagged ridges and steep valleys.  I've worn all the shiny off of harvesting and have moved on to trying to learn some basic building skills.  First thing I learned was make a big ass flat platform to build your templates on if possible.  Trying to fight the camera and the tools in an enclosed space is a lose lose proposition. 
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Reply #517 on: March 31, 2014, 08:54:33 PM

So the Upkeep thing pretty much killed it for me. Not the whole game as an idea, just that I feel no compulsion at all to play it until they balance it. Right now there's no way I can keep up with it. Yea I know, it's cheap, it's easy, I won't even notice it, blah blah blah. I was fine doing this kind of this 10 years ago in SWG and 14 years ago in UO. But I'm too busy and travel too much to have any remaining shits to give for forced appointment gaming in general.

I'll keep up with the thread to see how it goes in April. They'll either relax the requirement, allow other players to pay your upkeep (and if not, there's gonna be a cottage industry of account sharers doing it anyway), add in some way to do it from a mobile device, tie it to some premium subscription benefit, or something else. I don't need to test that though. That's what I have all you for  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Kidding!

In all seriousness, they could very well make it dumber than it is, cutting out people who just want to build without all the game and revenue shit getting in the way in favor of some new audience they think exists. Fine by me. I got my money's worth just in the alpha, so if this is it, then it's it.
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Reply #518 on: April 01, 2014, 03:34:29 AM

Upkeep lets them sell copper ore bundles in the store to people with lives. I'm surprised you missed that in my previous criticisms. 

Also. Welcome to where I was 8 years ago when folks were going on about the glories of virtual worlds.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Reply #519 on: April 01, 2014, 08:46:33 AM

This is nothing like the daily (at least!) harvester/sampling rush/grind of early SWG at least!

That said, 5 days max pay in advance is clownshoes stupid.

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Hawkbit
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Reply #520 on: April 01, 2014, 08:50:02 AM

Copper is 8850 pieces per 100SC, which equates to roughly $1.00 per month for the initial claim.  That's not terrible, provided they allow for claim upkeep to be greater than 5 days.  It really should be an indefinite period of time.  Providing I'm paying them, they should hold my spot.  

Between finishing up classwork for this semester and D3, I don't have time for anything else.  I can't be bothered to login every 5 days - it's just one more thing I have to remember to do.  That's primarily why I'm not playing now.  Anything I build will likely be packaged up when I get back.
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Reply #521 on: April 01, 2014, 09:09:35 AM

Having you login every 5 days is exactly the point, though.  This is content generation for SOE and secondary revenue via the store.  People who buy in and pay for a year or more in advance aren't helping either goal, they're problems.  They want an active community. Active communities spend more money and do more than a wasteland of half-completed projects that paid $12 a year ago and logged in for a week then stopped.

Worlds are about work. It's your 2nd job, only you pay for it vs. getting paid for it.


Ed: Also, no complaining when combat is added in and suddenly you can't get to an area or resource without a group because the monsters are too powerful. The groundwork is being done and I can see that coming as well.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 09:28:03 AM by Merusk »

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01101010
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Reply #522 on: April 01, 2014, 09:14:51 AM

This is nothing like the daily (at least!) harvester/sampling rush/grind of early SWG at least!

That said, 5 days max pay in advance is clownshoes stupid.

I noticed last night when I picked up both my claims and moved to a different island that when I set up my new spot, I had 6d 9h on my upkeep timer. I had paid the 600cop for both my claims on my first plot then then paid up for 3 days while I was out and about. So I am not sure about the 5 day limit if you can skirt around it like that.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Tmon
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Reply #523 on: April 01, 2014, 10:04:03 AM

In all seriousness, they could very well make it dumber than it is, cutting out people who just want to build without all the game and revenue shit getting in the way in favor of some new audience they think exists. Fine by me. I got my money's worth just in the alpha, so if this is it, then it's it.

The upkeep thing is kind of minor to me compared to the other stuff they have on the road map.  The more MMO they add the less likely I am to stick around past closed beta.  I'm just waiting for them to introduce levels (or something like certifications) so they can gate your access to tools and materials.  They already have some notion that fighting an encounter to get to top tier resources is something people want and of course they have a herd of people on the forums just salivating for it.
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Reply #524 on: April 01, 2014, 10:21:55 AM

Copper is 8850 pieces per 100SC, which equates to roughly $1.00 per month for the initial claim.  That's not terrible, provided they allow for claim upkeep to be greater than 5 days.  It really should be an indefinite period of time.  Providing I'm paying them, they should hold my spot.  

Between finishing up classwork for this semester and D3, I don't have time for anything else.  I can't be bothered to login every 5 days - it's just one more thing I have to remember to do.  That's primarily why I'm not playing now.  Anything I build will likely be packaged up when I get back.

I would disagree with unlimited period of time for upkeep. In SWG I had my house and my cantina an I dumped all my cash into upkeep on them when I left the game incase I wanted to come back. 3 years later there was a free weekend deal and I was bored so I logged in and my cantina and house were still there and each still had well over a year of upkeep. This kind of thing leads to ghost towns and that shit would kill a game like landmark.
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