Penny Arcade ends PATV and Penny Arcade Report.

[Ingmar]

I thought we weren't feeding the troll?

[Pennilenko]

I thought we weren't feeding the troll?

Shuush, he decided to go for Ironwood. The show is about to start. 

[Ironwood]

Clearly you cam't sum me up.  

Edit;  Oh, hey, new page.  Didn't see that.

No, I'm not going to fight with someone who has that grief title.  Not a chance.  I'm entirely uninterested in fighting with someone who's clearly acting like some fucking rocket down the pub.  I'd rather go wank, to be honest.  Everyone else clearly sees how PA doubled down on the stupid, and then tripled and then quadrupled down on it.  Fuck me, we're discussing the very post where the guy admits and tries to apologise for it FOR THE SIXTH TIME.

Think I want to fight about reality with someone like Dusematic ?  Go fish.  Or wait for Bob to come and tear a haunch.  I'm too old for this shit and I'm 6 days away from retirement.

So I went for the 'Ha Ha, you Spelled Shit Wrong' instead, which sums the whole thing up for me really.

[Paelos]

How does anything go beyond it?

...attempted to use that time to raise awareness

Pretty much that. I hate people trying to raise awareness or starting a dialogue. Fuck raising awareness, it doesn't do anything. As an example, It's a pet peeve of mine in the non-profit community that they get to throw big parties to "raise awareness" for breast cancer while donating about 10% to actual research and hoarding the rest.

We live in the internet age. We're aware. Actually we're hyper-aware and as a result mostly hypersensitive. So whenever something like this comes up where somebody is being an asshole, nevermind it's done by a guy who writes a shitty webcomic that we can easily ignore and that a ton of people haven't got a clue even exists in the first place, people are going to jump on it and go for the throat to raise awareness for their issue. It's a waste of time.

If your issue is really helping rape victims, give your money and time to a women's shelter, tell your friends about it, promote it, and ignore the stupid people of the world who don't get it. Do something constructive. Attacking people for what they say is the worst kind of way of getting your point across. This kind of thing is just wank that only makes people feel like they've achieved some moral victory when Gabe/Tycho apologizes, and yet it did nothing at all.

[sickrubik]

Well, I'm out. I can't even begin to reason with someone that says " I hate people trying to raise awareness or starting a dialogue. Fuck raising awareness, it doesn't do anything".

BTW, Komen IS a horrible organization. That's why you don't support them. There are others.

[dusematic]

Clearly you cam't sum me up.  

Edit;  Oh, hey, new page.  Didn't see that.

No, I'm not going to fight with someone who has that grief title.  Not a chance.  I'm entirely uninterested in fighting with someone who's clearly acting like some fucking rocket down the pub.  I'd rather go wank, to be honest.  Everyone else clearly sees how PA doubled down on the stupid, and then tripled and then quadrupled down on it.  Fuck me, we're discussing the very post where the guy admits and tries to apologise for it FOR THE SIXTH TIME.

Think I want to fight about reality with someone like Dusematic ?  Go fish.  Or wait for Bob to come and tear a haunch.  I'm too old for this shit and I'm 6 days away from retirement.

So I went for the 'Ha Ha, you Spelled Shit Wrong' instead, which sums the whole thing up for me really.

It takes a big man to abruptly refuse to debate the issue entirely, lob a few ad hominems, and then proclaim it's all because it's just so OBVIOUS he's correct.  After all, if anything proves the PA guys are assholes, it's their many heartfelt apologies.

[dusematic]

Well, I'm out. I can't even begin to reason with someone that says " I hate people trying to raise awareness or starting a dialogue. Fuck raising awareness, it doesn't do anything".

BTW, Komen IS a horrible organization. That's why you don't support them. There are others.

Let's take AIDS awareness.  How many non-crazed hobos living in the 1st world aren't aware of it?  "Promoting awareness" is generally a meaningless act designed to make people look and feel good. I reckon that's his point.

[Rendakor]

 

[lamaros]

Hey dusematic, you're a fuckwit. Fuck off to politics or just fuck off.

[Paelos]

Well, I'm out. I can't even begin to reason with someone that says " I hate people trying to raise awareness or starting a dialogue. Fuck raising awareness, it doesn't do anything".

BTW, Komen IS a horrible organization. That's why you don't support them. There are others.

My point is that just raising awareness without an action is pointless, and even when combined, the action is what matters.

Even in this particular example, we're fairly aware rape is wrong. Pretty much every civilized part of the world has criminalized the act. How does raising awareness or attacking people who said something stupid do anything at all for the victims?

My point is that it seems to be that people often confuse saying something or defending a position with actually DOING something. As if the acts are the same, and they are equally important. They are not.

[dusematic]

Hey dusematic, you're a fuckwit. Fuck off to politics or just fuck off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

[Ingmar]

Paelos: Raising "awareness", specifically applied to sexual assault and related crimes, is important in ways you're not seeing, in particular in regard to how it impacts views of jury members. We've criminalized the act but that doesn't especially help when there's a boys-will-be-boys and victim blaming culture around it that often gets people out of trouble in the face of evidence, etc. That's what the awareness stuff does, is it slowly changes those attitudes over time. It *is* action, in other words.

[sickrubik]

My point is that just raising awareness without an action is pointless, and even when combined, the action is what matters.

Even in this particular example, we're fairly aware rape is wrong. Pretty much every civilized part of the world has criminalized the act. How does raising awareness or attacking people who said something stupid do anything at all for the victims?

My point is that it seems to be that people often confuse saying something or defending a position with actually DOING something. As if the acts are the same, and they are equally important. They are not.

Awareness is not simply "telling someone about it". It incorporates education and action. You are also going a long way to assume that when people talk about a subject that they are doing nothing else. Every part of the puzzle matters, including attempting to talk with public people who are highly influential in a part of society that has shown to be cold or uneducated on the matter.

[Paelos]

I could dig in deeper but you both make decent points. When it comes to it, I just really hate the term and I've watched a lot of rich people clink glasses at a lot of parties in the guise of it. It's one of those things that makes me see red.

I do still believe we should do more and say less, and in this case it's just a internet comic. Some people believe there's a need to fight every single battle on every front. I'm not really one of those.

[sickrubik]

Why say less?

If, as you mentioned, it's the DO that's important, then the amount of saying isn't important. So, why say yes? If there's the chance it DOES do something, it's already worth it. (I believe it does a tremendous amount of good.)

Do both. Do everything.

[ezrast]

we're fairly aware rape is wrong.

A surprising amount of people really aren't. See: Steubenville, etc.

[Paelos]

Why say less?

If, as you mentioned, it's the DO that's important, then the amount of saying isn't important. So, why say yes? If there's the chance it DOES do something, it's already worth it. (I believe it does a tremendous amount of good.)

Do both. Do everything.

I believe it waters down the message and has the reverse effect when overdone. I believe people start to sour on your point when they are hit over the head with it on every little thing, and in many cases just start to root against you because you annoyed them.

[dusematic]

we're fairly aware rape is wrong.

A surprising amount of people really aren't. See: Steubenville, etc.

I 100% agree.  Speaking of which, let me clue you in on my soon to be unveiled murder awareness campaign.  After all, there are a surprising amount of people out there who still don't know it's wrong (you'd think after the Old Testament they'd have learned this by now).  See: James Holmes, Kai the Hitchhiker, Adam Lanza, etc.

[sickrubik]

I believe it waters down the message and has the reverse effect when overdone. I believe people start to sour on your point when they are hit over the head with it on every little thing, and in many cases just start to root against you because you annoyed them.

You seem to have a shifting goal post of what you are saying is "too much". Most things that have required awareness as we've progressed as a society has centered around dialogue.

I choose optimism over pessimism.

[Rasix]

we're fairly aware rape is wrong.

A surprising amount of people really aren't. See: Steubenville, etc.

I 100% agree.  Speaking of which, let me clue you in on my soon to be unveiled murder awareness campaign.  After all, there are a surprising amount of people out there who still don't know it's wrong (you'd think after the Old Testament they'd have learned this by now).  See: James Holmes, Kai the Hitchhiker, Adam Lanza, etc.

Have you gotten this out of your system yet?  Has Duseshoggoth gathered enough internet blood go back to his eternal sleep?  FFS, I liked the tales of your exploding colon better.

[Paelos]

My thing about being overdone pretty much extends to the entertainment world. That was my very first post on the subject.

[ezrast]

we're fairly aware rape is wrong.

A surprising amount of people really aren't. See: Steubenville, etc.

I 100% agree.  Speaking of which, let me clue you in on my soon to be unveiled murder awareness campaign.  After all, there are a surprising amount of people out there who still don't know it's wrong (you'd think after the Old Testament they'd have learned this by now).  See: James Holmes, Kai the Hitchhiker, Adam Lanza, etc.

Oh look, I found one.

[dusematic]

we're fairly aware rape is wrong.

A surprising amount of people really aren't. See: Steubenville, etc.

I 100% agree.  Speaking of which, let me clue you in on my soon to be unveiled murder awareness campaign.  After all, there are a surprising amount of people out there who still don't know it's wrong (you'd think after the Old Testament they'd have learned this by now).  See: James Holmes, Kai the Hitchhiker, Adam Lanza, etc.

Have you gotten this out of your system yet?  Has Duseshoggoth gathered enough internet blood go back to his eternal sleep?  FFS, I liked the tales of your exploding colon better.

Uh-oh. Dad's home!

[Ironwood]

It takes a big man to abruptly refuse to debate the issue entirely, lob a few ad hominems, and then proclaim it's all because it's just so OBVIOUS he's correct.  After all, if anything proves the PA guys are assholes, it's their many heartfelt apologies.

Yeah, you really proved on this page that debate is what you're after.

 

[dusematic]

It takes a big man to abruptly refuse to debate the issue entirely, lob a few ad hominems, and then proclaim it's all because it's just so OBVIOUS he's correct.  After all, if anything proves the PA guys are assholes, it's their many heartfelt apologies.

Yeah, you really proved on this page that debate is what you're after.

 

I agree wholeheartedly.  The majority of my posts, though at times somewhat sarcastic, have remained confined to rational on-topic discourse (admittedly I didn't get the memo that PA were scum based on a comic strip they did, but I think that me having a difference of opinion goes without saying at this point).  Meanwhile, I have been subjected to repeated ad hominem attacks of every stripe, including by yourself, primarily by people who have added nothing else to the discussion (again, including yourself).

[Soulflame]

What has happened to this thread.  

Dusematic:

[Sjofn]

I don't want to find out any of you assholes are MRAs.

They're always around, man. Lurking. Waiting.

[Stormwaltz]

No single action by Gabe has offended me beyond tolerance. I say stupid, thoughtless things, and I make bad decisions. It's the overall trend in his behavior that eventually pushed me stop reading PA. I summed it up as, "Doing this once is an honest mistake. Doing it twice is a failure to learn. Do it three times, and You Have A Problem." I've lost count of the feet in his mouth.

I'm glad he acknowledges the problem and has declared he wants to address it. But I will wait and see. I hope he manages it.

What complicates my case is that I'm in the industry. I can stop reading PA and its forums, I can move my Child's Play donations to other children's charities, and I can stop buying tickets to PAX... but my employer still regards PAX as an industry event, and may require me to attend.

[dusematic]

No single action by Gabe has offended me beyond tolerance. I say stupid, thoughtless things, and I make bad decisions. It's the overall trend in his behavior that eventually pushed me stop reading PA. I summed it up as, "Doing this once is an honest mistake. Doing it twice is a failure to learn. Do it three times, and You Have A Problem." I've lost count of the feet in his mouth.

I'm glad he acknowledges the problem and has declared he wants to address it. But I will wait and see. I hope he manages it.

What complicates my case is that I'm in the industry. I can stop reading PA and its forums, I can move my Child's Play donations to other children's charities, and I can stop buying tickets to PAX... but my employer still regards PAX as an industry event, and may require me to attend.

Fair enough.  I only know of two manufactured scandals involving Gabe.  One is the thing we are currently "discussing."  The other is his view that a woman has a vagina.  There may be other things he has said that I have yet to discover that may cause me to dislike him.  But I feel pretty o.k. about him regarding the foregoing.

[Margalis]

There was no need to apologize for the Dick Wolves comic or for claiming that women have vaginas. The problem is that in both cases the PA guys (or just Mike I guess) doubled down on being offensive. But these guys are clearly assholes in a variety of ways  - their incredibly lame Kickstarters, their bullying of that Ocean Media guy, generally lording their wealth over others.

It's like a movie where the lovable losers who got picked on in life finally have something go right in their lives, only in this version it turns out the lovable losers were actually just assholes all along who would have been the bullies had they the means. I think it's fashionable now for everyone to claim that they are geeks, nerds, were bullied in high school, etc - something I can't stand. If you are in your mid 30s and still whining about how a kid pushed you into a locker at age 16 you really need to grow up, and "I was bullied in school" or "I was always a geek" is often used as carte blanche to do anything.

On the other hand I'm not a fan of twitter activism, "raising awareness" in self-aggrandizing ways, or the way social media tempest in teacups are almost invariably extremely overwrought and silly. That "women have vaginas" flap was just embarrassing all around.

Online activism tends to be very faddish. Ten awful things happen in a day and one blows up and becomes the most important issue ever while nine are ignored. I can't help but roll my eyes at all the "why I'm no longer going to PAX" posts. I think at some point you have to ask yourself "am I invested in this topic because it's actually worth investment, or because everyone else seems to be buzzing about it so why not pile on?" You aren't going to PAX because of Mike. Ok. Are you going to stop shopping at Whole Foods because their CEO is a super douche? Are you going to stop watching X TV show or stop seeing the movies of Y director? Are you also skipping IndieCade because the guys who run IndieCade are also assholes? (Note: As far as I know this isn't actually the case) It's one thing if that's how you live your life, but I find it a little silly when people only give a shit about causes that are en vogue.

It's the same with all this "this game is offensive to women" shit you read these days - which games are chosen as objects of derision is basically arbitrary and determined by what happens to snowball. People get all mad about Dragon's Crown, because it's fashionable to be mad about it, but not about Vanguard Princess, even though it's like the same fucking game. If you're someone who thinks carefully about the depiction of women in every game that's cool, but the vast majority of online activism (including sexism related) seems to be outrage of the day nonsense. I'm super angry about this thing that until today I had never heard of, and tomorrow I'll be super angry about something else, based on what other people on Twitter or HuffPo or some shit are angry about.

No single action by Gabe has offended me beyond tolerance. I say stupid, thoughtless things, and I make bad decisions. It's the overall trend in his behavior that eventually pushed me stop reading PA

I stopped reading because the comic has not been funny in like a half-decade.

[Goreschach]

I don't want to find out any of you assholes are MRAs.

They're always around, man. Lurking. Waiting.

[Paelos]

I had to look up what MRAs were.

Acronyms!

[Fabricated]

No single action by Gabe has offended me beyond tolerance. I say stupid, thoughtless things, and I make bad decisions. It's the overall trend in his behavior that eventually pushed me stop reading PA. I summed it up as, "Doing this once is an honest mistake. Doing it twice is a failure to learn. Do it three times, and You Have A Problem." I've lost count of the feet in his mouth.

I'm glad he acknowledges the problem and has declared he wants to address it. But I will wait and see. I hope he manages it.

What complicates my case is that I'm in the industry. I can stop reading PA and its forums, I can move my Child's Play donations to other children's charities, and I can stop buying tickets to PAX... but my employer still regards PAX as an industry event, and may require me to attend.

I worked for my country government in the midwest and I had elected officials surrounding me who said/did stuff that gravely offended me every day and had coworkers who were racist pieces of shit. I dealt with it since I needed the job. Then a right-wing shithead was made president of the university I now work at and I'm dealing with it because I like my job otherwise. Just one of those things.

[Simond]

Yeah, pretty much. If it's that big a deal to you, make a formal protest to your manager, take leave that week, work to rule, whatever.
If not, hold your nose and let it slide. Picking the right battles is important and attempting to take the moral high ground against someone who's just said "Hey, I've realised I'm actually an arsehole and I'm going to try and fix that" probably isn't going to get you very far.

[Hoax]

Its going to get you trolled all over the internet by Duse and still thinking you have a leg to stand on apparently.