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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  PC/Console Gaming  |  Topic: Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA] 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA]  (Read 33803 times)
Druzil
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Posts: 391


Reply #490 on: May 22, 2015, 10:35:48 AM

I'm trying to give this a shot again.  Seems like the queue times are way better than last time I played (months and months ago).

Couple thoughts from <10 games:

1 - I really loathe daily quests.  I wish Blizzard would stop cramming them into every game.  Just let me play the heroes I want to play not the ones I just happened to roll quests for.

2 - There's too much progression.  Gating talents behind individual hero levels is just bad.  I don't know if the intention is to ease people into a hero or to get them to try a variety of builds, but I just don't like it.  I don't like feeling like I'm not on an even footing in a MOBA, let me learn what talents are good and bad by trying them.

So far I've been playing around with Valla, Jaina and Brightwing.  Brightwing is surprisingly fun, it's like playing Shen with a 45 second ult cooldown.  I just wait for group fights to start, TP in to unbalance the sides and throw down some healing/shields.  Playing support on low level solo Q though probably isn't the greatest idea ever.

Nebu
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Reply #491 on: May 22, 2015, 10:46:04 AM

1 - I really loathe daily quests.  I wish Blizzard would stop cramming them into every game.  Just let me play the heroes I want to play not the ones I just happened to roll quests for.ever.

I try to think of them as a way to play/practice heroes that I wouldn't otherwise play.  It has helped me better play against those heroes in hero league.

I do love me some 'Win 3' and 'Play 8' quests though.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Mosesandstick
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Reply #492 on: May 22, 2015, 11:49:39 AM

They've changed it so that once you reach a certain account level, which I can't remember, you automatically unlock all talents for every hero.
Kail
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Reply #493 on: May 22, 2015, 12:01:25 PM

2 - There's too much progression.  Gating talents behind individual hero levels is just bad.  I don't know if the intention is to ease people into a hero or to get them to try a variety of builds, but I just don't like it.  I don't like feeling like I'm not on an even footing in a MOBA, let me learn what talents are good and bad by trying them.

I assume it's to learn the heroes, but I think it would work better in other games (where there's a more defined "standard" build) than in HotS.  Like in Dota 2, you've got pages and pages of items but you probably don't want to be buying, say, Scythe of Vyse on Sniper unless you really, really know what you're doing.  In HotS though the talents are all hero specific so there aren't any that are THAT bad of a choice (in theory, anyway).

If it were some kind of long slog I'd probably hate it, but the fact that it's like three or four matches means it's not a big deal to me.  Plus you get all talents unlocked on all characters once you hit player level 25 anyway.
Malakili
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Reply #494 on: May 22, 2015, 12:08:15 PM



1 - I really loathe daily quests.  I wish Blizzard would stop cramming them into every game.  Just let me play the heroes I want to play not the ones I just happened to roll quests for.


This is one of the things that REALLY bugs me too.  I think I made a big stink about it some pages ago.  If this came went with the DOTA 2 F2P model, I'd actually probably forgive everything else about it. 
luckton
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Reply #495 on: September 04, 2015, 12:42:38 PM

Started playing this a lot more recently. Mostly out of boredom of no WoW content, and I need my MOBA itch scratched. I'm burned out on LoL, and DOTA2 just seems too complicated. But I'm digging this simple = more fun vibe that Bliz has got. Sure, it's another level grind before I can play ranked stuffs, but that's the price one pays I guess.

For those that are playing ranked, you might care that they're removing the ability to do ranked matches in groups of three or four players. Single, duo, or five-man pre-mades can still queue.

If anyone wants to group up sometime, hit me up on Bnet. Luckton#1979


"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Kail
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Reply #496 on: September 04, 2015, 03:13:29 PM

I like the changes to ranked, personally.  As someone who solo queues 99% of the time it's always maddening getting stuck as the fifth player with a four man pre-made.  Maybe now I'll finish my qualifiers someday :P

If you're looking to get in to ranked, you should probably give Nebu a poke, he's still around occasionally I think (unless D3 has eaten him).  I'll be gone next week but probably be back after that if you want someone to look good in comparison to.

Pretty pumped for Rexar next week, too.
luckton
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Reply #497 on: September 04, 2015, 04:27:57 PM

Based on the promo vid they put out today, Rexxar seems like it's more "I'm playing Misha with Rexxar as my pet" than the other way around. I assume he'll have some talents that actually affect his own DPS or something, but if you kill his pet, you basically removed two (three he if chose Bestial Wrath) abilites for him to use for a time.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Nebu
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Reply #498 on: September 04, 2015, 06:11:34 PM

I like the changes to ranked, personally.  As someone who solo queues 99% of the time it's always maddening getting stuck as the fifth player with a four man pre-made.  Maybe now I'll finish my qualifiers someday :P

If you're looking to get in to ranked, you should probably give Nebu a poke, he's still around occasionally I think (unless D3 has eaten him).  I'll be gone next week but probably be back after that if you want someone to look good in comparison to.

Pretty pumped for Rexar next week, too.

I am VERY excited about the changes to hero league and will be playing HotS a ton when the changes go live.

If anyone has questions or wants to join me for quick matches, I'm neboo in the game (neboo 1240 on battle.net).


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Kail
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Reply #499 on: September 04, 2015, 08:37:02 PM

Based on the promo vid they put out today, Rexxar seems like it's more "I'm playing Misha with Rexxar as my pet" than the other way around. I assume he'll have some talents that actually affect his own DPS or something, but if you kill his pet, you basically removed two (three he if chose Bestial Wrath) abilites for him to use for a time.

As long as Rexxar has decent right click damage himself, it could still work, I think.  Like a less twiggy version of the Vikings.  I'm still not sure how much losing Misha hurts him (what's Misha's respawn time like, does she give XP, that kind of thing) but you can do a lot with two collision boxes and two autoattacks on the field.  A lot of the stuff I liked about Vikings that has been patched out (like being able to solo hard merc camps or boss mobs easily) looks like Rexxar might be able to do, and without having to spend most of the game sitting in a bush split soaking three lanes at once.
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #500 on: September 08, 2015, 07:08:45 PM

Why is the quick match not quick?

"Me am play gods"
Nebu
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Reply #501 on: September 08, 2015, 10:32:54 PM

Why is the quick match not quick?

Quick to get into and quick to get out... because the teams are often one-sided.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
luckton
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Posts: 5671


Reply #502 on: September 09, 2015, 03:57:51 AM

Quick match tries to hook you up with even player-leveled opponents in a balanced way (the matcher tries to avoid putting together an entire team of Assassins). Depending on the time of day and your level, it's about as bad a DPS waiting in LFG, or as good as a tank doing the same. If you want quick, try a specialized or support role.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Kail
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Posts: 2758


Reply #503 on: November 06, 2015, 11:12:41 PM

Hey, remember that old April Fool's joke for World of Warcraft where Blizzard said they'd implement two headed ogres, as two players controlling one body?

Going to be a thing here, apparently.

edit: unlock mechanics look... weird
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/heroes/chogall/
Quote
November 17 - January 1, 2016
Party with a friend who already owns Cho’gall and win two games as either head to permanently unlock this Hero for yourself. If you've already unlocked Cho'gall, you can earn yourself a nice lump of gold by helping your friends unlock him too.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 11:23:43 PM by Kail »
Rasix
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Posts: 14125

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #504 on: November 06, 2015, 11:33:05 PM

They're doing their championship for this right now at Blizzcon. This is like season 1 LoL bad, but with better production values.

I may actually have to play some to get the hang of what I'm watching.  I have no idea what's going on in these maps.

-Rasix
Kail
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Posts: 2758


Reply #505 on: November 09, 2015, 09:10:49 PM

They're doing their championship for this right now at Blizzcon. This is like season 1 LoL bad, but with better production values.

I may actually have to play some to get the hang of what I'm watching.  I have no idea what's going on in these maps.

Finally getting caught up on this.  C9 v. DK semi finals is pretty much the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

https://youtu.be/TD9ycq17Z7o?t=58m58s
Fordel
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Reply #506 on: November 10, 2015, 07:24:58 AM

The weirdest fucking thing, that is entirely my own damage, is that I've been watching Dota2 for so long now that the Dota2 heroes have defaulted in my mind to the 'originals' and all the HotS heroes look like knockoffs to me  why so serious?


-edit- The above match, so basically DK had no idea how to play a non-standard game? That's the same reason Korea sucks balls at Dota2 for the most part. Glad to see that tradition continues.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 07:54:52 AM by Fordel »

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
luckton
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Reply #507 on: November 10, 2015, 09:22:47 AM

That's why I sometimes hate "the meta". Dozens of heroes/avatars/champions to choose from, but the pros for DOTA and LoL always play the same goddamn handful of picks that it gets old too fast. Nice to see some relevant wildcard picks to freshen things up.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Maledict
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Reply #508 on: November 10, 2015, 11:59:45 AM

That's why I sometimes hate "the meta". Dozens of heroes/avatars/champions to choose from, but the pros for DOTA and LoL always play the same goddamn handful of picks that it gets old too fast. Nice to see some relevant wildcard picks to freshen things up.

Blizzcon was really good in terms of variety. We saw a lot of neat stuff being used and heroes who aren't generally rated come to the fore. Tyrael, for example, had an amazing win rate despite being generally ignored and seen as weak. The murky / abathur comp linked above was another example. Same with Falstead and the repositioning builds that were being taken.

Compared to previous tournaments and patches, the game is definitely in a good state right now with variety.
Nebu
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Reply #509 on: November 10, 2015, 01:58:21 PM

Most people in HOTS that talk about the 'meta' are nowhere near good enough at the game to effectively play the meta.  There are really only a few heroes that aren't good choices for ranked play.  The key is to understand which heroes are best for the map and matchup and play them with solid mechanics. 

Even with that, the current matchmaker is utter shit and it's near impossible to carry a bad team.  I'm quite frustrated with the state of things with regard to the match maker.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Maledict
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Reply #510 on: November 10, 2015, 02:55:56 PM

Most people in HOTS that talk about the 'meta' are nowhere near good enough at the game to effectively play the meta.  There are really only a few heroes that aren't good choices for ranked play.  The key is to understand which heroes are best for the map and matchup and play them with solid mechanics. 

Even with that, the current matchmaker is utter shit and it's near impossible to carry a bad team.  I'm quite frustrated with the state of things with regard to the match maker.

Absolutley - although to be honest, I think that's also true for other MOBAs as well. Being good on a particular character is normally far better than "playing the meta".

And yes, Quick Match is just fucked right now. My group refuses to play it, which means we play a lot less. I also wish their ranking system worked differently, as I think an individual rank number adds a lot of stress into the game which isn't necessery - it would be far better served with leagues like LoL. The matchmaker changes discussed at Blizzcon sound very promising though.
Rasix
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Posts: 14125

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #511 on: November 10, 2015, 03:41:46 PM


OK. That was the first entertaining HOTS match I've seen.  That showcased a lot of interesting hero mechanics on the side of C9.  Good stuff. 

Was the final worth watching?




-Rasix
Nebu
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Reply #512 on: November 10, 2015, 04:00:55 PM

Was the final worth watching?

I thought so. C9 used some group comps that are a bit out of the ordinary.  I think it threw their opponents off. 

The level of teamwork and communication was what really impressed me.  Such great decision making. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sophismata
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Reply #513 on: November 16, 2015, 11:24:58 PM

Most people in HOTS that talk about the 'meta' are nowhere near good enough at the game to effectively play the meta.  There are really only a few heroes that aren't good choices for ranked play.  The key is to understand which heroes are best for the map and matchup and play them with solid mechanics. 

Even with that, the current matchmaker is utter shit and it's near impossible to carry a bad team.  I'm quite frustrated with the state of things with regard to the match maker.
And yes, Quick Match is just fucked right now. My group refuses to play it, which means we play a lot less. I also wish their ranking system worked differently, as I think an individual rank number adds a lot of stress into the game which isn't necessary - it would be far better served with leagues like LoL. The matchmaker changes discussed at BlizzCon sound very promising though.
Looking forward to the fixes. Quick match is a clusterfuck sometimes. My ask is that I get matched with and against people around my MMR. Not with and against scrubs that haven't even learned to watch the minimap yet. Those games are frustrating for me, frustrating for them, and frustrating for the one other player on their team who's actually decent — it's a crap shoot for both of us which team works better and which of our heroes counters the other one. It also means that you can't play many supports in QM (playing Morales or Kharazim is like pulling teeth).

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Kail
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Reply #514 on: December 04, 2015, 06:09:29 PM

So, as I mentioned, their new hero Cho'Gall is a two player hero but the only way to unlock him right now is to party with someone who has him and win two games as one of the heads.  I've just got him unlocked so if anyone (on the NA server) needs him, let me know (Kail#1457).  I think you can unlock him until some time in the middle of January.
apocrypha
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Reply #515 on: January 12, 2016, 10:32:52 AM

So, as I mentioned, their new hero Cho'Gall is a two player hero but the only way to unlock him right now is to party with someone who has him and win two games as one of the heads.  I've just got him unlocked so if anyone (on the NA server) needs him, let me know (Kail#1457).  I think you can unlock him until some time in the middle of January.

I've just unlocked him, so if anyone playing in the EU region wants him still feel free to add me, Apocrypha#2851.

He's a lot of fun, does insane damage, but fairly easy to counter by any team with a brain.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Sophismata
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Posts: 543


Reply #516 on: January 12, 2016, 03:32:46 PM

So, as I mentioned, their new hero Cho'Gall is a two player hero but the only way to unlock him right now is to party with someone who has him and win two games as one of the heads.  I've just got him unlocked so if anyone (on the NA server) needs him, let me know (Kail#1457).  I think you can unlock him until some time in the middle of January.

I've just unlocked him, so if anyone playing in the EU region wants him still feel free to add me, Apocrypha#2851.

Unfortunately, today's patch has concluded the special Cho'Gall event, so now he needs to be bought. He is heaps of fun, though.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Setanta
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Reply #517 on: January 12, 2016, 09:36:33 PM

I wish you could queue Cho and jump into a game.

#Nigel-no-friends-problems

The dryad was fun and then I lost interest in the game. The new Worgen mechanics almost have me interested... but Diablo 3 Season 5 is about to take over my life.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
apocrypha
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Posts: 6707

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #518 on: January 13, 2016, 01:14:40 AM

Unfortunately, today's patch has concluded the special Cho'Gall event, so now he needs to be bought. He is heaps of fun, though.

Oh, poop. I won't be getting the 2200 gold for unlocking him for two other people then :(

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
luckton
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Posts: 5671


Reply #519 on: March 21, 2016, 01:00:18 PM

Upcoming rank/draft mode changes include hero bans for everyone (not just eSports peeps), better UI for matchmaking, and changes to being able to play ranked.

http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/20058190

The matchmaking stuff is essentially copypasta of LoL/other MOBAs, but the ranked play changes may be of interest to peeps here. You no longer need to be player level 30 to play ranked. Instead, they're upping the req. number of heroes you have access to from 10 to 14. You don't necessarily have to own all 14, as heroes on the free to play rotation that week can count, but only if you're level with that hero is 5+.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Nebu
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Reply #520 on: March 21, 2016, 02:55:56 PM

The ranking system is still garbage as is the matchmaking system.

These are all good changes.  They just don't fix all of what's broken.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Maledict
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Reply #521 on: March 22, 2016, 05:52:51 AM

The match making for ranked play works fine, unless you are in the top 0.1% of players and play on the NA servers.

Quick match will always be a crap shoot, but that's because of what it is rather than any match making. It's not possible to have a match maker than can create viable teams all the time for quick match, they just need to abandon the entire concept and replace it with something sane like every other MOBa on the planet does.
luckton
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Reply #522 on: March 22, 2016, 06:23:50 AM

It's kinda weird, really. Bliz seems to be playing catchup to other games as opposed to being the trend-setter. LoL just redid their entire matchmaking process a couple months ago after years of dealing with what Bliz is just now putting into HotS.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Malakili
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Reply #523 on: March 22, 2016, 09:06:19 AM

Blizzard usually isn't the trend setter, it's the trend polisher.  Still polishing away here, I think.
Nebu
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Reply #524 on: March 22, 2016, 09:41:15 AM

The match making for ranked play works fine, unless you are in the top 0.1% of players and play on the NA servers.

What are you basing this statement on? 

The MM favors new players and players with low battle counts, as does their MMR system.  If you're established and on an old account, the amount of games it takes to move up ranks is absurd compared to a new reroll.  I have a smurf account that was easily placed at rank 5 while my main account, which I play with exactly the same level of skill, has recently dropped from rank 11 to 24.  The MM moves people up too quickly and improving, but established people up far too slowly.  It also doesn't account well for experience.  The MMR is similarly problemmatic.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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