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Author Topic: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor  (Read 218769 times)
Sjofn
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Reply #910 on: July 15, 2014, 01:09:19 AM

The big thing is I wish like hell they would either convert the leveling dungeons to all be tactical or add more than just the one, because I am sick to fucking death of Kuat Driveyards.  swamp poop

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Zetor
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Reply #911 on: July 15, 2014, 01:14:33 AM

They're regular group sized (4) and if you have decent gear you can duo them with 2 players/2 companions.

In general I give the credit for that particular feature to LotRO's skirmishes.
Oh yeah, I'd definitely give it to LOTRO as well; in fact, the skirmish implementation is a lot better than WOW scenarios with more variance in encounters, better difficulty options, and the entire soldier customization aspect.

All I'm saying is that role-less group content exists in WOW already (and there's quite a bit of it -- 15 right now I think, with 6 of them having heroic versions; these are just the 3-person ones, there are quite a few solo ones too), it's just that it's not really considered mainline content, more of something you steamroll once a day for the vp/jp bonus and maybe run a few times as a fresh 90 to gear up. BTW, I think it's very easy to solo some of the scenarios even with sub-500 ilevel (in theramore, the group usually splits to 3 to kill all 3 ship captains / crew at the same time, f'rex).

e: also, WOW has also been using the scenario tech to do a lot of single-player "story missions" instead of just using heavy phasing, the 5-6 SP-only scenarios on isle of thunder as well as the ones in the legendary questline are a good example. Those are much more similar to a SWTOR story quest mini-instance or a GW2 story instance than anything else, though. The Proving Grounds also use the scenario implementation.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 01:19:28 AM by Zetor »

Simond
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Reply #912 on: July 16, 2014, 12:40:58 PM

Anyone want to get mad at people getting mad at Blizzard?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1550089-Mike-Morhaime-replies-to-open-letter-over-diversity-in-Blizzard-games

tl;dr: Mike Morhaime makes a (n admittedly PR-shaped) "Yes, diversity is important and we're making a concious effort at working on it" reply* and MMO-C forums...respond how you'd expect.


*Compare and contrast Rob Pardo's "Deal with it" post a while back for added hilarity.


"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Wizgar
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Reply #913 on: July 16, 2014, 04:15:26 PM

Diversity? In a game where all humans are white, and everyone who sounds like they might not be is either a breakdancing cannibal troll or a puerile animal-based ethnic caricature?
Sjofn
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Reply #914 on: July 16, 2014, 04:17:41 PM

I fucking love the dudes who are like "THIS is the issue?!? After ALL THE OTHER WRONGS?!?" Yes, how could someone find the clueless white dudebro-rific vibe of Blizzard games more troubling than ... I don't know, their dumb decision to ground people for an entire expansion. My sparklepony taking flight trumps all!

I was starting to get worried when the first few complaints neglected to whine about social justice warriors, but by the end of the first page my fear had been proven unfounded.


edit: oh lol

Quote
He/she had me with the dull lore and the cliche story but lost me when he/she started to say minorities and women are under represented along with gay characters. I dont have a problem with either of these things being in the game, but i also think it shouldnt be injected into the game to make a group of special snowflakes happy, that probably dont even play the game.

Being a woman: SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE

I also super love the assumption still so pervasive amongst dudes unwilling to let girls in their treehouse. YOU DON'T PLAY ANYWAY, SHUT UP. You know, dude, if I didn't play games, I wouldn't give a shit about how so many pretend I don't exist.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 04:22:05 PM by Sjofn »

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #915 on: July 16, 2014, 04:28:14 PM

Did someone post something? I just saw a blank space after Wizgar's post.

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Sjofn
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Reply #916 on: July 16, 2014, 04:30:58 PM

<sob>

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Hutch
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Reply #917 on: July 16, 2014, 04:35:40 PM

I haven't played a human in a long time, but there's a pretty broad spectrum of colors that you can choose from, iirc.
As for a broad spectrum of genders, well, you can pick M or F as your body type and then roleplay the rest of it.


Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
The sun will shine on us again, brother
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #918 on: July 16, 2014, 04:39:04 PM

Human gets super pale white guy and super tan white guy.  There's not even vaguely ethnic hairstyles which might let you roleplay hispanic. 

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Wizgar
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Reply #919 on: July 16, 2014, 05:36:09 PM

You can set your skintone to brown in the character creator, but if you're a roleplayer then good luck explaining where the hell you came from.
Hutch
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Reply #920 on: July 16, 2014, 06:24:23 PM

Meh. These challenges have been facing WoW players for ten years now. People quit for all kinds of reasons. One kid posts a wall of text saying "you suck, I quit" about Blizzard's shocking, insensitive lack of diversity and all of a sudden we've got a crisis.

No flying at the level cap, redesigning PvE classes to "balance" "pvp", and putting our expansion capitals in a ghetto PvP zone, are actual changes to the game. Changes that will affect their current subscribers. If I was in Morhaime's position, and I was paying any attention to complaints, I wouldn't worry about an "I quit" letter. I'd worry about how to keep my current subscribers around.

Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
The sun will shine on us again, brother
Typhon
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Reply #921 on: July 16, 2014, 06:51:22 PM

Maybe when the shit is hitting the fan, and your development team members are all in fetal position under their desks, a flame-bait diversity post could be a Morhaime's best friend.

In other news... LOOK! A BUNNY!
Ingmar
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Reply #922 on: July 16, 2014, 08:07:58 PM

I doubt it. His language was vague and half-assed and pissed off the pro-diversity side too.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Paelos
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Reply #923 on: July 17, 2014, 09:18:36 AM

I thought the best part of it was Blizzard openly admitting they don't focus much on story. Then fans pointing out how shitty the story is.

You know, if the company understands their stories are second-class and the fans hate them, WHY THE FUCK IS METZEN STILL EMPLOYED?

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luckton
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Reply #924 on: July 17, 2014, 09:49:43 AM

I thought the best part of it was Blizzard openly admitting they don't focus much on story. Then fans pointing out how shitty the story is.

You know, if the company understands their stories are second-class and the fans hate them, WHY THE FUCK IS METZEN STILL EMPLOYED?

Tenure.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Simond
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Reply #925 on: July 17, 2014, 12:55:27 PM

if the company understands their stories are second-class and the fans hate them


"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Paelos
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Reply #926 on: July 17, 2014, 01:07:29 PM

Hey, you want diversity? Hire a female writer as the lead story person instead of Metzen. I'm all for that. I'm for anything that gets him fired. He's a complete shithead who is terrible at his job.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Simond
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Reply #927 on: July 17, 2014, 03:16:03 PM

Jealousy is a terrible thing.  awesome, for real

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Paelos
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Reply #928 on: July 17, 2014, 03:21:00 PM

Your trolls are getting weaker than the game's content lineup for this expac. Even you're running out of ways to defend this nonsense. That says it all.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Simond
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Reply #929 on: July 17, 2014, 03:52:01 PM

Your trolls are getting weaker than the game's content lineup for this expac.
Oh, you're not enjoying the beta?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Maven
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Reply #930 on: July 17, 2014, 09:44:29 PM

I would be fascinated by a serious case study of Metzen's career that not only showed what he did right but what his critical flaws are instead of treating him like a big joke. There's a lot of misinformation floating out there -- but one thing I believe true is that Metzen's career is over if he ever decided to leave Blizzard, and that's *never* going to happen unless he retires.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 09:46:10 PM by Maven »
Maven
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Reply #931 on: July 17, 2014, 10:25:37 PM

I should have read the letters before commenting.

Is this part of the greater sensitivity to social issues / equality being reported in Millenials who would predominantly play games like this? The central argument starcunning appears to make is that Blizzard ought to grow up from its comic book origins and the traditional portrayals found within that domain. Would this be accurate?

I could write a lot about what starcunning wrote and point out the flaws in the argument. Would it be a financial incentive for Blizzard to start creating products that were more about people being able to create a version of themselves in a fantasy space or a major character to identify with that was fairer to the diverse amount of people represented out there? Absolutely.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 10:28:35 PM by Maven »
Sjofn
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Reply #932 on: July 18, 2014, 12:40:58 AM

I would be fascinated by a serious case study of Metzen's career that not only showed what he did right but what his critical flaws are instead of treating him like a big joke. There's a lot of misinformation floating out there -- but one thing I believe true is that Metzen's career is over if he ever decided to leave Blizzard, and that's *never* going to happen unless he retires.

What did he do right? I am genuinely curious.

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luckton
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Reply #933 on: July 18, 2014, 02:52:36 AM

WoD's legendary.



 Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? why so serious?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Simond
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Reply #934 on: July 18, 2014, 04:47:58 AM

I would be fascinated by a serious case study of Metzen's career that not only showed what he did right but what his critical flaws are instead of treating him like a big joke. There's a lot of misinformation floating out there -- but one thing I believe true is that Metzen's career is over if he ever decided to leave Blizzard, and that's *never* going to happen unless he retires.

What did he do right? I am genuinely curious.
Came up with about 50% of the artwork and 100% of the storyline for Warcraft 1 on the spot after Games Workshop (allegedly) backed out. So not like it saved the company,or anything.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Hutch
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Reply #935 on: July 18, 2014, 07:46:42 AM

I should have read the letters before commenting.

Is this part of the greater sensitivity to social issues / equality being reported in Millenials who would predominantly play games like this? The central argument starcunning appears to make is that Blizzard ought to grow up from its comic book origins and the traditional portrayals found within that domain. Would this be accurate?

I could write a lot about what starcunning wrote and point out the flaws in the argument. Would it be a financial incentive for Blizzard to start creating products that were more about people being able to create a version of themselves in a fantasy space or a major character to identify with that was fairer to the diverse amount of people represented out there? Absolutely.

Or, Blizzard could sink a bunch of resources into teaching people to use their imaginations. (If that sentence sounds like an absurd idea, that's because it is.)

If you can't feel immersion in a game unless your avatar looks just like you, you're not very good at roleplaying.

In any case, WoW isn't the place for it, being as only one out of the eleven player races has a prayer of looking like a human. Well, two, if you count the werewolves.

Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
The sun will shine on us again, brother
Hutch
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Reply #936 on: July 18, 2014, 07:47:52 AM

I thought the best part of it was Blizzard openly admitting they don't focus much on story. Then fans pointing out how shitty the story is.

You know, if the company understands their stories are second-class and the fans hate them, WHY THE FUCK IS METZEN STILL EMPLOYED?

The best part is Blizzard saying that they don't focus much on story, but using story as the excuse for moving the beta capitals.

Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
The sun will shine on us again, brother
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #937 on: July 18, 2014, 08:14:31 AM

WoD's legendary.



 Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? why so serious?

The str/spr combo got me. 

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Paelos
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Reply #938 on: July 18, 2014, 11:13:40 AM

Came up with about 50% of the artwork and 100% of the storyline for Warcraft 1 on the spot after Games Workshop (allegedly) backed out. So not like it saved the company,or anything.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

You mean the game they blatantly ripped off the artwork and lore from Warhammer? Good call. Bet that took some real talent to basically copy somebody just enough not to invoke a lawsuit.

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Simond
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Reply #939 on: July 18, 2014, 11:56:36 AM

Out of interest, if Metzen quit who would be the next Blizzard employee you'd be yelling incoherently at?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Ingmar
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Reply #940 on: July 18, 2014, 12:48:17 PM

See, this is why you're hard to take seriously even when you're not trolling. Metzen writes terrible characters, and it has been obvious to just about everyone for a long time. Look at what happened to the story stuff in Diablo once he got his hands on it, to just name one enormous turd of an example. If you can't tell the difference between the somewhat unreasonable criticism of Ghostcrawler and the pretty much entirely deserved criticism of Metzen, you're not exercising your critical thinking skills enough.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Paelos
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Reply #941 on: July 18, 2014, 02:27:42 PM

Ingmar makes a good point, I didn't like GC, but it wasn't for as many obvious reasons as Metzen. GC was a mouthpiece who I thought was terrible, he was one of the guys inside who I believe supported the hardcore tuning of the game even if he didn't directly control it, and he was always a lightning rod for class changes.

Metzen on the other hand has produced laughable garbage for years. The last SC expansion story was ridiculed up and down. The D3 story is so horrendous legions of users were begging for a non-story play function so they could skip even the skippable parts. The WoW stuff... I mean maybe you like fighting the worst created villian ever in a new xpac? Green Jesus can help.

The real nail in the coffin in my mind is Titan. That was Blizzard's first real shot at creating something from scratch, a brand new lore-IP, in over a decade. And they've managed to completely fuck that up. I don't even believe it's salvagable, and that's why heads had to roll. They can't create anymore with this current group. It's gotten to the point where they need a whole-sale changeover of direction, and for somebody to come in and create brand new IPs while throwing the old chucklefucks out on their asses.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
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Maven
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Reply #942 on: July 18, 2014, 03:18:48 PM

Maybe Blizzard doesn't give a crap about the U.S. market, and their priorities are doing the token minimal effort in the States while they make franchises that the entire rest of the world doesn't take as seriously and which provides the primary fuel for the E-sports scene. Kinda like Transformers and China.

No, I've seen how Metzen behaves. I don't think that man is an international and culturally-sensitive thinker. He might have changed since I last saw him.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 03:21:00 PM by Maven »
Merusk
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Reply #943 on: July 18, 2014, 03:45:14 PM

Based on the bro-dude attitude on full display at every Blizzcon, no. No he hasn't.

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Ingmar
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Reply #944 on: July 18, 2014, 03:57:32 PM

The real nail in the coffin in my mind is Titan. That was Blizzard's first real shot at creating something from scratch, a brand new lore-IP, in over a decade. And they've managed to completely fuck that up. I don't even believe it's salvagable, and that's why heads had to roll. They can't create anymore with this current group. It's gotten to the point where they need a whole-sale changeover of direction, and for somebody to come in and create brand new IPs while throwing the old chucklefucks out on their asses.

Given what they've let him publish I can't imagine that Titan was held back because of anything Metzen-related. I don't really see Titan as especially relevant, anymore than SC: Ghost or other projects they've killed that we never heard a name for.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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