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Author Topic: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor  (Read 484754 times)
Sjofn
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Reply #595 on: April 17, 2014, 01:58:38 PM

OK, so I wasn't forgetting some sort of super interesting housing thing in LotRO or anything.

Yeah, pretty straight forward stuff.  A few different sized houses available, but a couple of clan properties available in each neighborhood.  It wasn't that LOTRO did something amazing, but it was just well down, the towns were really pleasant to be in and really had the flavor for each race, the house/yard decorating was sufficient, etc.  I would have thought anyone trying to do housing in a sandbox game would basically use that as the model. 

I don't think of WoW as anything like a sandbox game, and I'm not even a little bit surprised they wanted to do more than LotRO's housing, as they have an obsession with making things "matter." That said, everything I've read about the garrisons sounds really fun mechanically. Just not Full Expansion Price fun.

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Rendakor
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Reply #596 on: April 17, 2014, 01:59:38 PM

And certainly not Higher Than Normal Expansion Price fun.

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Malakili
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Reply #597 on: April 18, 2014, 12:54:22 AM

OK, so I wasn't forgetting some sort of super interesting housing thing in LotRO or anything.

Yeah, pretty straight forward stuff.  A few different sized houses available, but a couple of clan properties available in each neighborhood.  It wasn't that LOTRO did something amazing, but it was just well down, the towns were really pleasant to be in and really had the flavor for each race, the house/yard decorating was sufficient, etc.  I would have thought anyone trying to do housing in a sandbox game would basically use that as the model. 

I don't think of WoW as anything like a sandbox game, and I'm not even a little bit surprised they wanted to do more than LotRO's housing, as they have an obsession with making things "matter." That said, everything I've read about the garrisons sounds really fun mechanically. Just not Full Expansion Price fun.

Yeah, erm, I meant themepark, I don't know why I typed sandbox.
Simond
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Reply #598 on: April 18, 2014, 02:43:14 AM

And certainly not Higher Than Normal Expansion Price fun.


"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Sjofn
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Reply #599 on: April 18, 2014, 03:07:45 AM

Now do 2012.

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Simond
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Reply #600 on: April 18, 2014, 03:47:26 AM



Hey look, MoP cost $8 less than it should have. BLIZZARD!!!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #601 on: April 18, 2014, 03:58:34 AM

Well at least you know you'll be paying the appropriate amount of money for the privilege of then paying more money.

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Paelos
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Reply #602 on: April 18, 2014, 06:26:39 AM

Doesn't really take into account the reduction in distribution costs of the new download model. If anything, games should cost less than they did when studios had to crank out millions of boxes, CDs, and cases.

And they do. There's a reason ATVI is making billions in profits. Not sales, profits.

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Simond
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Reply #603 on: April 18, 2014, 08:44:47 AM

Doesn't really take into account the reduction in distribution costs of the new download model. If anything, games should cost less than they did when studios had to crank out millions of boxes, CDs, and cases.

And they do. There's a reason ATVI is making billions in profits. Not sales, profits.
Yeah, there is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty


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Paelos
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Reply #604 on: April 18, 2014, 10:50:43 AM

The model is shifting more and more to digital distribution making up 37% of their revenues. And it's only going up. Whatever game it happens to be, ATVI is going to be making the majority of their money on digital sales within the next few years. That means their costs for distributions are going down, while their revenues are either static or going up.

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luckton
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Reply #605 on: April 18, 2014, 11:29:44 AM

Meh, I guess I'm the black sheep here then.  Garrisons intrigue me to no end, and I welcome a lot of the changes being made.  And while I understand this may be the Bitching thread (which has almost reached Maximum Bitch-status), I'm pretty sure I'll be seeing several of your B.net tags waving the WoW flag within a few months of WoD's launch.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Ragnoros
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Reply #606 on: April 18, 2014, 11:39:58 AM

Doesn't really take into account the reduction in distribution costs of the new download model. If anything, games should cost less than they did when studios had to crank out millions of boxes, CDs, and cases.

And they do. There's a reason ATVI is making billions in profits. Not sales, profits.

Eh DVD's and plastic cases are cheap, ditto bulk shipping, and both would basically pay for themselves via free shelf space marketing. Random google results have this number pegged around $3 bucks.

The real profit margin in downloads is in cutting out retail, who typically get 20-25% of the $60 cost. For blizz publishing on PCs is also a boon, letting them skip Sony/MS console 20% cut as well.

Fakeish Edit: But really, we HAVE seen the trend of cheaper games. Things like FTL, Minecraft, Don't Starve, etc. etc. all come in around the $20 +/-10 price point thanks to being produced by smaller, teams, not sold in stores, and often self published to start. Big companies simply have little reason to follow, given they can charge what the market will bear, plus they still have huge teams to support.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 11:43:57 AM by Ragnoros »

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Paelos
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Reply #607 on: April 18, 2014, 11:42:04 AM

Agreed, the old model cuts were a big portion of that old publishing model.

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Sjofn
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Reply #608 on: April 18, 2014, 01:28:23 PM



Hey look, MoP cost $8 less than it should have. BLIZZARD!!!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

That isn't what I meant, but you know that.  Heart

39.99 in 2012 (that's what MoP cost, after all), is a whole 41.16 today. And frankly, WoD's not as exciting from a new shit standpoint. WotLK? 43.89. What about Burning Crusade, the first expansion that did not (surprise!) get released in 2004? The expansion that actually set our expectations on price? Oh, it would be 45.57.

To sum up: You're a desperate fanboy trying to pointlessly wave away the fact they're charging too much for too little in an adorably deceptive way.

Meh, I guess I'm the black sheep here then.  Garrisons intrigue me to no end, and I welcome a lot of the changes being made.  And while I understand this may be the Bitching thread (which has almost reached Maximum Bitch-status), I'm pretty sure I'll be seeing several of your B.net tags waving the WoW flag within a few months of WoD's launch.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I do think the Garrisons look fun, I think updating the models is SORELY needed and I'm glad they're doing that, number squish is a good thing, etc. But given I regretted paying 40 bucks for MoP, an expansion that had a lot more going for it than this one, asking me to pay 50 is a no-sale.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 01:33:27 PM by Sjofn »

God Save the Horn Players
Rendakor
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Reply #609 on: April 18, 2014, 01:48:23 PM

The real profit margin in downloads is in cutting out retail, who typically get 20-25% of the $60 cost.
This is not true. It's closer to 5-10%, for both of the major retail outlets I've worked.

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luckton
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Reply #610 on: April 18, 2014, 05:00:44 PM

Updated alpha notes are out.  I'll give you a preview: Reforging is out.  Enjoy!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3922-Paladin-Tier-17-Preview-Warlords-of-Draenor-Alpha-Official-Notes-Update

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Sjofn
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Reply #611 on: April 18, 2014, 05:10:59 PM

We knew that about reforging already, didn't we?

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luckton
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Reply #612 on: April 18, 2014, 05:16:23 PM

We knew that about reforging already, didn't we?

We speculated, this is a confirmation.

Also, mastery for tanks is now  awesome, for real

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Paelos
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Reply #613 on: April 18, 2014, 05:25:03 PM

Also, mastery for tanks is now  awesome, for real

Of course it is.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Hutch
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Reply #614 on: April 19, 2014, 12:33:18 AM

Updated alpha notes are out.  I'll give you a preview: Reforging is out.  Enjoy!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3922-Paladin-Tier-17-Preview-Warlords-of-Draenor-Alpha-Official-Notes-Update

TL/DR: Wow, a whole bunch of people cancelled their subs on the day we published the last edition of these patch notes. We're not going to talk about PvP as much this time!

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dd0029
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Reply #615 on: April 19, 2014, 10:14:23 AM

Not that I'm going to play, but I like the idea behind the new combat rez mechanic. I'm not sure how it will work out though. I have visions of people waiting like they used to for Heroism/Bloodlust.
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Reply #616 on: April 19, 2014, 10:18:59 AM

Hahahah, if the rest of the tier sets are redone Tier 4 I might just die of laughter.

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Simond
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Reply #617 on: April 19, 2014, 10:23:57 AM

Well, there's going to be at least two new designs.  Ohhhhh, I see.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
luckton
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Reply #618 on: April 19, 2014, 11:20:10 AM

Hahahah, if the rest of the tier sets are redone Tier 4 I might just die of laughter.

Hey, we're redoing Outland/Draenor.  Might as well go all the way  why so serious?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #619 on: April 19, 2014, 05:02:00 PM

Hahahah, if the rest of the tier sets are redone Tier 4 I might just die of laughter.

Hey, we're redoing Outland/Draenor.  Might as well go all the way  why so serious?

They went full retard.

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Simond
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Reply #620 on: April 26, 2014, 04:11:52 AM

The whinging about the Garrosh trial novel is going to be amazingOhhhhh, I see.

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Miasma
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Reply #621 on: April 26, 2014, 12:44:56 PM

There is a book?  Any one who whines about a horrible WoW book has already defeated themselves.
Paelos
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Reply #622 on: April 26, 2014, 01:21:06 PM

One of the reasons the lore has gone off the rails is they started putting it in terrible novels instead of the games. Because they can make more cash selling the books.

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Maven
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Reply #623 on: April 27, 2014, 08:05:37 AM

One of the reasons the lore has gone off the rails is they started putting it in terrible novels instead of the games. Because they can make more cash selling the books.

I see a lot of Knaak and Golden, along with others names who I'm vaguely familiar with writing within the medieval fantasy genre.

I bought Knaak a drink once. The first thing he said to me was, paraphrased, "None of my bosses would do that for me."

Quality issues aside (we should not forget that these books are for a commercial brand with commercial interests, shepherded by a committee rather than an individual), you have to give them credit. They can publish on a deadline, and someone has to write those books. Unexploited revenue potential.
Paelos
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Reply #624 on: April 27, 2014, 08:44:21 AM

I give Blizzard and Activision a ton of credit for being profitable. I was a shareholder until it basically doubled my value and I got out.

I got out because I think they flubbed Titan, I don't like Blizzard or Activision's long term IP outlook, and I think they are like the NFL. They are extremely profitable right now top dog of the heap, but they are getting overexposed into markets they don't belong, and the only thing that can stop them is their own stupidity/ambition.

The books are like that. It's not a big enough market in books to ruin the game's draw. And despite what people say, they really do care about the lore in an RPG. They care what guy they are killing, they need some backstory, and they want it to be explained without a lot of ridiculous unnecessary bullshit. They certainly don't want to have to go OUTSIDE the game to understand why a big event is happening INSIDE the game. That's counter-intuitive with the only goal as a profit margin. That's short-term thinking, and it's not good.

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Reply #625 on: April 27, 2014, 10:43:38 AM

I haven't paid a lot of attention to the outside lore stuff, but an acquaintance of mine who is way more into that shit said that he kinda blames one particularly bad author for cranking out tons of shitty characters and that recently they've been killing them off left and right.

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Reply #626 on: April 27, 2014, 02:39:15 PM

To back Paelos up a bit: I used to read every single quest and listen to all the NPC conversations I could.  Then they started putting important shit in books and I started getting lost. 

I began skipping quest text In Cats because. Wtf. I don't know why this is important or who that is. They just showed up and are I charge. Great, whatever.

  Pandaria I don't recall reading a single text.  Not one. I don't even know the back story for the big animal things it the locked valley. I had to hunt for too much and the books weren't going to get bought.  I don't have time for that shit on top of the time demands of the game.

So I became disengaged with the game when the second raid came out and I had no idea what was going on.  I stopped logging in.  Then when the alliance and horde began in axing I said fuck this and it was a pretty quick unsub after that. 

When players who care beyond the latest phat pests don't know what's going on they're not going to remain. Your $9 addition revenue cost you recurring $250 and in game store purchases.   Whoops.

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Reply #627 on: April 27, 2014, 08:26:55 PM

I still to this day don't know why we had to raid Obsidian Sanctum.

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Reply #628 on: April 28, 2014, 03:40:29 AM

I dunno it's a dragon; there's a good chance it was a dick who needed killing anyway.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
luckton
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Reply #629 on: April 28, 2014, 03:43:34 AM

I still to this day don't know why we had to raid Obsidian Sanctum.

Something something terrorist cultists hate out freedom something something.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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