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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen turns out to be a real game (real bad, geddit?) 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen turns out to be a real game (real bad, geddit?)  (Read 326628 times)
Teleku
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Reply #280 on: January 18, 2014, 09:40:58 AM

On the topic of travel times, I actually somewhat miss it as well.  Traveling in EQ really felt like I was exploring and making a journey.  I'd pick up and move on to some other zone in the world, and setup shop there for days, since traveling took so long and was so hazardous (the run from Freeport to Quentos may be the most hilarious, harrowing, and awesome thing ever inflected on players in an mmo to date).  It gave areas a real sense of community, and gave the game depth.  And just like eve, it provided opportunities to be a trader (a casual carbear one at that).  Buy shit in an are that it's cheap, and run it over to someplace it's hard to get and sell for a premium.  People will pay for not having to take the time to do that.  Or in the case of wizards/Druids, make lots of money teleporting people around.  

Now of course it was also a kick in the balls because it made it harder to casually meet up with friends for the night to have a quick play session, and other such things.  The trick is finding a way to balance it between the two, but I feel there is true value in returning to a world/market that has true honest to god distance in it.  Can't claim I know how they will make it work in a way everybody will enjoy, but I'd like to see it done.

Having said that, I think this particular game will be a disaster that won't even be made.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 03:11:53 PM by Teleku »

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Reply #281 on: January 18, 2014, 02:02:38 PM

As a star citizen backer it's good to have something to look down upon, thanks Brad.
This is roughly the same class of poison.
Paelos
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Reply #282 on: January 18, 2014, 02:07:27 PM

It's akin to drinking varnish or bleach.

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Draegan
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Reply #283 on: January 18, 2014, 06:04:51 PM

Reading Rerolled on this topic makes me wish I could virtually strap on a Flamethrower and just kill everything and everyone in that thread.   How did Brad trick that one online community into thinking he was Video Game Jesus.

 awesome, for real

Seriously, you need a gigantic bowl of popcorn to read that thread.
Also amusing is that on ANY other gaming forum the general reaction to this kickstarter was pretty much a universal MEH, while on Rerolled McQuaid is currently revered as MMOs' last hope, and Pantheon is suddenly crucial to saving the industry from impending doom.

Please, the majority of people in that thread are lurkers and star fuckers. The rest of the forum wishes him well but think he's full of shit.
Apart from the usual suspects of "WoW is Satan Incarnate and ruined everything!!!!111!! Blizzard are teh evil", of course.

(NB: Just to be clear, I'm still talking about Rerolled and not F13.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS )

Same thing could be said her but in reverse. WOW is great, it's the best, super casual games 4 lyfe!!!

Maybe it's just Paelos and Ingmar.

Personally, I'm sick of diku MMOs.
Paelos
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Reply #284 on: January 18, 2014, 06:25:09 PM

It's okay that you're sick of them, because the stuff you liked die a long, long time ago.  why so serious?

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Reply #285 on: January 18, 2014, 07:11:43 PM

Everything comes back though. It's like fashion. Platform shoes, or flared pants, or ukuleles. Sandbox, and PvP with permadeth and full body loot? You can say what you want but here's 2 million copies sold (Rust and Day Z) in 2 months. Something that has been considered dead long long time ago is coming back for a second round. So I am pretty sure that applies to everything. There's always the vintage round, the retro round, and the hipster round. Give it time.

Venkman
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Reply #286 on: January 18, 2014, 08:15:42 PM

It's like how big box retail and boutique shoppes switch prominence every generation and a half. smiley

People are happy to dabble with permadeath and corpse runs again. For one, there's a lot more potential online gamers now than there were 15 years ago, whether you're looking at broadband, console sales, or gamers in general. All of those metrics have done nothing but grow by double and triple digits. Plus "Gamer" has become so broad that it almost has no meaning, in part because a good chunk of gamers out there wouldn't call themselves that but which exhibit all the same behaviors of actual self-identified "gamers".

With all that said, there's probably as many gamers out there today who'd dig a corpse run/permadeath or at least XP/level loss/lose-your-shit MMO as those who grudgingly accepted that level of risk running across Kithicor because UO looked ugly and AC1 didn't have that same level of epic feel.

So I don't think it's that everything old becomes new again. Rather, I think there's so many people who play games, and so much technology enabling them to play MMOs, that you can find a few hundred thou who'll give what we call old skool a shot.

I mean shit, launch a fantasy-based Eve and you'll grab all the non-WoW players there are.

Of course, while all that is to say there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the idea, that isn't to dismiss that it all comes down to effective execution and marketing. You can't build it and expect them to come unless you've got the kind of budget that also compels good marketing. That isn't a tradition in MMOs in general, much less ones that try to target not everyone.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 08:23:35 PM by Darniaq »
Senses
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Reply #287 on: January 18, 2014, 08:26:10 PM

You guys act like there's a new generation of gamers asking for Brad to kick them in the nuts.  This is the exact same people who played Everquest 1 minus any who might have died or realized  that getting kicked in the nuts *and* paying for it shouldn't be a good thing.  This isn't a gaming trend, its just Brad doing his once a decade donation drive for a dream that will never be delivered.
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Reply #288 on: January 18, 2014, 08:36:01 PM

Oh, feh, I have no interest in Brad's MMO. If it gets funded, if it gets developed, if it launches and gets marketing, and if anyone plays it, maybe it'll be worth talking about.

I was only commenting on the general idea of what Falc was talking about. Whatever drives to that isn't likely to come from anything related to this thread.
Ginaz
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Reply #289 on: January 18, 2014, 08:36:59 PM

Reading Rerolled on this topic makes me wish I could virtually strap on a Flamethrower and just kill everything and everyone in that thread.   How did Brad trick that one online community into thinking he was Video Game Jesus.

 awesome, for real

Seriously, you need a gigantic bowl of popcorn to read that thread.
Also amusing is that on ANY other gaming forum the general reaction to this kickstarter was pretty much a universal MEH, while on Rerolled McQuaid is currently revered as MMOs' last hope, and Pantheon is suddenly crucial to saving the industry from impending doom.

I think part of the reason is that McQuaid is posting there.  People are climbing over each to kiss his ass...and then suck his dick.  Happens all the time when you get a "celebrity dev" posting.  

Edit: OMG this dude even has Brad's face in an Obama Hope type picture as his avatar. ACK! Facepalm
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« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 08:41:20 PM by Ginaz »
Ingmar
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Reply #290 on: January 19, 2014, 01:49:03 AM

Reading Rerolled on this topic makes me wish I could virtually strap on a Flamethrower and just kill everything and everyone in that thread.   How did Brad trick that one online community into thinking he was Video Game Jesus.

 awesome, for real

Seriously, you need a gigantic bowl of popcorn to read that thread.
Also amusing is that on ANY other gaming forum the general reaction to this kickstarter was pretty much a universal MEH, while on Rerolled McQuaid is currently revered as MMOs' last hope, and Pantheon is suddenly crucial to saving the industry from impending doom.

Please, the majority of people in that thread are lurkers and star fuckers. The rest of the forum wishes him well but think he's full of shit.
Apart from the usual suspects of "WoW is Satan Incarnate and ruined everything!!!!111!! Blizzard are teh evil", of course.

(NB: Just to be clear, I'm still talking about Rerolled and not F13.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS )

Same thing could be said her but in reverse. WOW is great, it's the best, super casual games 4 lyfe!!!

Maybe it's just Paelos and Ingmar.

Personally, I'm sick of diku MMOs.

You seem to be confused about which super casual diku MMO I play.

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Paelos
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Reply #291 on: January 19, 2014, 06:41:14 AM

He also thinks we agree on stuff. Which is cute.

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calapine
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Reply #292 on: January 19, 2014, 08:15:23 AM

Everything comes back though. It's like fashion. Platform shoes, or flared pants, or ukuleles. Sandbox, and PvP with permadeath and full body loot? You can say what you want but here's 2 million copies sold (Rust and Day Z) in 2 months. Something that has been considered dead long long time ago is coming back for a second round. So I am pretty sure that applies to everything. There's always the vintage round, the retro round, and the hipster round. Give it time.

I am really hoping for that. Not a complete UO 2, because a lot of that was only possible because things were new ground then. I can't see house stealing '(teehee) coming back. But for someone whose idea of what an MMORPG is was created by this game (I didn't even know what classes are until WoW...) the years since then definitely felt like a decline.

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Reply #293 on: January 19, 2014, 08:42:09 AM

He also thinks we agree on stuff. Which is cute.

Awh the two little puppies are getting along.
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Reply #294 on: January 19, 2014, 09:26:27 AM

I can't see house stealing '(teehee) coming back.

Garry actually said they are considering it for Rust. Teehee  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Reply #295 on: January 19, 2014, 09:54:51 AM

The thing is, if even one game aside from EVE had managed to do a decent sandbox there wouldn't be hype at all for something like this (or The Repopulation).  They'd just be considered low budget long shots at best.  But because there is a certain niche whose essentially been starved for this style game you get that segment coming out of the woodwork anytime someone announces a project like that.

The success of RUST and Day Z is interesting, but I think it's in part successful because they've more attached that permaloot style into a fundamentally session based experience.  I think when you stick it into a real MMO people are attached to their characters and items in a different way.  Losing them becomes enough to turn them off.  So I'm not sure we can look at the success of those games and conclude that the next successful sandbox MMO is just around the corner.
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Reply #296 on: January 19, 2014, 12:09:45 PM

Rust and DayZ have been popular because of the open world Minecraft/Skyrim fad and because zombie games just won't fucking die. Also because people are idiots and want to give money to games that don't actually exist yet. People aren't moving to those games because they beat the last foozle in the latest WoW expansion.
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Reply #297 on: January 19, 2014, 02:19:25 PM

Is Minecraft a fad?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Reply #298 on: January 19, 2014, 03:08:18 PM

because zombie games just won't fucking die.

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Is Minecraft a fad?

As it's almost 5 years old now it's definitely not just a flash in the pan as the word "fad" usually implies.  We'll see if it becomes electronic Legos or passes on the mantle of popularity to something else of the same genre.  Weather it's a fad or phase or a permanent expansion of gaming space remains to be seen, though. The Wii waggle was with us for a number of years but certainly didn't expand gaming.

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Reply #299 on: January 19, 2014, 10:20:03 PM

Is Minecraft a fad?

All the boys in my kid's first grade class play it to one extent or another. I don't get the allure, but they seem to love it.

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Reply #300 on: January 19, 2014, 11:26:51 PM

He also thinks we agree on stuff. Which is cute.

Awh the two little puppies are getting along.

Why the hell are you trying to suck me into this argument anyway? I've barely posted in this thread and I haven't said shit about your poopsock forum. Take aim at Simond or something if you need a straw man to beat up.

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luckton
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Reply #301 on: January 20, 2014, 01:17:35 AM

Checking in on the KS...trending threshold has now fallen below the $1M mark, even after they added more tiers and introduced one of the classes over the weekend.

Fall, damn you, FALL!   DRILLING AND MANLINESS

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Reply #302 on: January 20, 2014, 02:24:49 AM

He's late. 1 year ago this shit project would have raised 5M in no time.

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Reply #303 on: January 20, 2014, 02:28:57 AM

One year ago he still had his phony baloney job at SOE  why so serious?

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Reply #304 on: January 20, 2014, 09:03:52 AM

Is Minecraft a fad?

All the boys in my kid's first grade class play it to one extent or another. I don't get the allure, but they seem to love it.

The easiest way to explain it is you have to be really in to Legos.  My son and his friends (4th grade) are and love the hell out of Minecraft.  He'll spend hours just building huge structures like castles and houses and moats.

I like it for the random exploration and survival mode along with the ability to build my own little encampment but it makes it hard to play with him because our goals are so different.  He'll cheat a bunch of stuff in to our camps that ruin my drive to play.  It's no good to me when you're decked out in diamond gear with 5 enchants and thousands of bricks to build whatever you want.

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Reply #305 on: January 20, 2014, 09:46:38 AM

The easiest way to explain it is you have to be really in to Legos.  My son and his friends (4th grade) are and love the hell out of Minecraft.  He'll spend hours just building huge structures like castles and houses and moats.

I like it for the random exploration and survival mode along with the ability to build my own little encampment but it makes it hard to play with him because our goals are so different.  He'll cheat a bunch of stuff in to our camps that ruin my drive to play.  It's no good to me when you're decked out in diamond gear with 5 enchants and thousands of bricks to build whatever you want.
Sounds like daddy is hardcore and son is casual.  why so serious?

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Reply #306 on: January 20, 2014, 09:50:40 AM


" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
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Reply #307 on: January 20, 2014, 10:01:44 AM

The easiest way to explain it is you have to be really in to Legos.  My son and his friends (4th grade) are and love the hell out of Minecraft.  He'll spend hours just building huge structures like castles and houses and moats.

I like it for the random exploration and survival mode along with the ability to build my own little encampment but it makes it hard to play with him because our goals are so different.  He'll cheat a bunch of stuff in to our camps that ruin my drive to play.  It's no good to me when you're decked out in diamond gear with 5 enchants and thousands of bricks to build whatever you want.
Sounds like daddy is hardcore and son is casual.  why so serious?


Yep.  But I don't force him to play my way or think he's a useless noob for not doing so, so I'm ok with that.

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Reply #308 on: January 20, 2014, 10:04:04 AM

DAOC 2 seemed similarly doomed, and still managed to "make it". Since I still believe that there's an easy scam process behind these projects (meaning you put in your own money to get to the goal in order to avoid losing the real pledges), I am pretty sure it will miraculously ramp up in the last three days and even more miraculously get funded 2 hours before the deadline.

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Reply #309 on: January 20, 2014, 10:04:29 AM

Is Minecraft a fad?

All the boys in my kid's first grade class play it to one extent or another. I don't get the allure, but they seem to love it.

The easiest way to explain it is you have to be really in to Legos.  My son and his friends (4th grade) are and love the hell out of Minecraft.  He'll spend hours just building huge structures like castles and houses and moats.

I like it for the random exploration and survival mode along with the ability to build my own little encampment but it makes it hard to play with him because our goals are so different.  He'll cheat a bunch of stuff in to our camps that ruin my drive to play.  It's no good to me when you're decked out in diamond gear with 5 enchants and thousands of bricks to build whatever you want.

I have noticed this as well with my Nephew.  When I try to explain that the fun part of getting something really cool in a video game is earning it through hard work, he just blank stares at me like I'm an idiot.  In fact, just explaining it here, I *do* feel like an idiot.  Instant gratification is the norm now, not just in video games, but life.  We are outdated.
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Reply #310 on: January 20, 2014, 10:18:21 AM

DAOC2 had a couple things going for it. It's not really comparable.

Its funding goal was $2m, over double McQuaid's. It accomplished this through a very savvy Kickstarter campaign offering "Founders Points" to backers at various levels that can eventually be spent for various things. $2m still isn't enough for a MMO, so they came right out and said right on the Kickstarter page that when they hit their $2m funding goal they would immediately unlock an additional $3m from a mix of external investors and Marc Jacobs' pocket. $5m is a very small warchest for even a niche PvP-focused indie MMO, but it is at least within the realm of possibility.

I have a fair amount of confidence that Jacobs and posse will release something, they will come out with a real game. No inklings as to the product's quality, or ambition, or how it will perform in the market. But it will exist. He's unlikely to take your money, fail to produce and go "so sorry, I tried". McQuaid's kickstarter, when it funds (and it will very likely fund very close to the minimum), will have no such assurances.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 10:22:32 AM by sam, an eggplant »
Lucas
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Reply #311 on: January 20, 2014, 02:37:33 PM

Sometrollone just pledged 10k  awesome, for real

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Ginaz
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Reply #312 on: January 20, 2014, 07:40:41 PM

Sometrollone just pledged 10k  awesome, for real

Hmm, I wonder which pot of money Brad dipped into to make that donation, hookers or blow? awesome, for real
Malakili
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Reply #313 on: January 21, 2014, 01:56:07 AM


I have noticed this as well with my Nephew.  When I try to explain that the fun part of getting something really cool in a video game is earning it through hard work, he just blank stares at me like I'm an idiot.  In fact, just explaining it here, I *do* feel like an idiot.  Instant gratification is the norm now, not just in video games, but life.  We are outdated.

This instant/delayed gratification thing is a bit over-played I think. 

Apply it to anything else and it makes sense.  Great writers love writing their 5th draft as much as their first draft, for example.  To look at it another way, I enjoy reading.  I don't just enjoy having read something and therefore having the knowledge, I really get "instant gratification" in the actual reading itself.

Even though the product isn't instant, the gratification in some way is because you actually enjoy the process.  Putting an arbitrary soul crushing process in front of some object doesn't make it more fun, but putting a long process that is actually rewarding in itself in front of a product makes perfect sense to me.  I suppose part of the problem is one man's rewarding process is another man's soul crushing grind. 

To use minecraft as an example, mining/cutting down trees, etc and just sort of being in that world was always a big part of what was gratifying about it to me. It's not that building with resources I got myself made the building more satisfying, but rather than the gathering resources itself was gratifying and pleasant.

Learning to delay gratification is good, but in some way it implies that only products at the end of a process are the gratifying part.  That's true sometimes, but misses the point a little in other cases.

Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #314 on: January 21, 2014, 02:00:58 AM

Sometrollone just pledged 10k  awesome, for real

Hmm, I wonder which pot of money Brad dipped into to make that donation, hookers or blow? awesome, for real

pledge withdrawn  DRILLING AND MANLINESS  awesome, for real

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
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