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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  PC/Console Gaming  |  Steam  |  Topic: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller]  (Read 14455 times)
Sky
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Reply #140 on: January 17, 2014, 03:14:04 PM

Uber is talking about a steam box on their livestream http://www.twitch.tv/uberentertainment

Kageru
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Reply #141 on: January 17, 2014, 11:12:18 PM


Apparently they had some Valve "Dev Days", there's a bunch of info around. The interesting bits being they've rethought the controller. Turns out looking at a display mounted on your controller is a distraction and trying to push buttons in that position is not natural. So it looks like the plan is the two big pressure pads plus two sets of directional buttons for the thumbs.

Also they're keen on VR, have a really advanced test lab in house and support libraries, but no plans to get involved in hardware but are instead working with Oculus (but not tied to them). The developer reckons quality domestic VR will be a big thing ~2015, but then developers are natural optimists. Still, sounds like fun.

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Reply #142 on: January 17, 2014, 11:27:26 PM

I'm still somewhat skeptical of using touch instead of analog sticks, but nowhere near as skeptical as I am of touch being able to replace real mechanical buttons.  Higher hopes for their controller being usable in the new configuration.
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Reply #143 on: February 13, 2014, 06:53:21 PM

I need to update my PC this year, probably. No way in hell I'll buy a Steambox, though. I'll just build my own PC and be able to claim it and do work for work on it as well as post on forums.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #144 on: February 15, 2014, 12:53:52 AM


Same here. The steambox really isn't aimed at people comfortable with PC's or who need it as a computer.

I'm interested in a larger steam user-base bringing more games, I'm interested in the peripherals (controller and oculus). If I had a big TV sitting in a home theatre room and they really manage some economy of scale on the box maybe it would be interesting as a lounge room media center, but I don't have that situation.

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Reply #145 on: March 02, 2014, 05:24:13 AM

I'm not so sure, there is a niche of the PC gaming master race who'd happily pay a reasonable amount for something in the living room that is not a console.

How big that group is I have no idea, but without Sony or MS marketing they may be critical to this project not being stillborn.

I will probably buy one of these purely out curiosity, but the idea of buying an Xbox doesn't even cross my mind.

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Sky
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Reply #146 on: March 02, 2014, 10:19:05 AM

I'm not so sure, there is a niche of the PC gaming master race who'd happily pay a reasonable amount for something in the living room that is not a console.
If you're a true member of the PC gaming master race, that device is a PC. Since 2003(tm).

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Reply #147 on: March 05, 2014, 04:31:17 AM

Gabe Newell did an "Ask Me Anything" on Reddit.

Nothing really about Half Life 3.

Then:
 
Quote
The biggest news is that Valve is working on making Steam "a self-publishing system," something Newell hinted at during Steam Dev Days when he announced that Steam Greenlight is going away. Before Greenlight, Valve "got bottle-necked pretty fast on tools and decision making," says Newell. That led to Greenlight, and is now leading the company toward self-publishing.

Here's some of the other things that came up:

Quote
On Ricochet 2 (a supposed sequel to Ricochet that's often jokingly used to refer to Half-Life 3) not being announced: “When we announced our products years in advance in the past and then were really late delivering them, it was pretty painful for both us and the community. We'd rather not repeat that.”

On what improvements we’ll see in in Source 2 engine: “The biggest improvements will be in increasing productivity of content creation. That focus is driven by the importance we see UGC [User Generated Content] having going forward. A professional developer at Valve will put up with a lot of pain that won't work if users themselves have to create content.”

His vision for Steam in the next ten years: “I'm not trying to dodge the question, but we find it more useful to think in terms of feedback loops than in terms of visions/goals. Iterating with the community means that your near-term objectives change all the time. The key benefit to Steam is to shorten the length of the loop. Longer term, we see that working at the level of individual gamers, where we think of everyone as creating and publishing experience. "How can we make gamers more productive" sounds weird, but is an accurate way to characterize where we're going. It may make more sense if you think of it as "How can we make Dendi more entertaining to more people."

On SteamOS and Valve’s core audience: “We see Steam Machines (along with Steam OS and the Steam Controller) as a service update to Steam, porting the experience to a new room in the house. As we've been working on it, we've focused first on the customers who already love Steam and its games. They've told us they're tired of giving up all the stuff they love when they sit in the living room, so it seemed valuable to fix that.”

On Valve’s VR being “light years ahead” of the original Oculus Rift dev kit: “I'm not sure I'd agree with that. We are collaborating with them, and want their hardware to be great.”

On the future of eSports: “We still think we have a long way to go to get to the point where all of the different people that are contributing value to competitive play get everything out of it that they should. Feels like we are making pretty good progress though.

“Giving the consumers of content a direct relationship with the creators of content is something we think about a lot. That is what drove our thinking about how the community could be more involved in the tournaments that mattered to them.”

About his collaboration with JJ Abrams: “The main thing is that when we talk with him it's like talking with someone who works at Valve. That's not usually the case with people from the film industry.”

About Valve accepting cryptocurrency (Bitcoin): “There are two related issues: one is treating a crypto-currency as another currency type that we support and the broader issue is monetary behaviors of game economies. The first issue is more about crypto-currencies stabilizing as mediums of account.”

On why the company is named Valve: “Because it was better than ‘Rhino Scar.’”

Sky
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Reply #148 on: March 05, 2014, 09:46:48 AM

I completely do not give shits about any of that.

Just keep fat pipes for downloading and deep discounts at the semi-annual sales. As long as all the social/maker fucking nonsense doesn't cock that up, feel free to wank it as hard as you want.

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Reply #149 on: March 07, 2015, 05:21:08 AM

ARISE! One year on.

The Steam store now has prices and some specs for the first Steam Machines and the controllers. Prices only in USD for now.

Prices are ridiculous, clearly aimed at a handful of early adopters and not intended to be serious competition for the console market. I only ever buy things on Steam at 75% off or more in sales, at which point some of these would become good value. Otherwise this just smacks of "shit, it's been ages, we need to show *something* before we piss off our hardware partners too much".

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Reply #150 on: March 07, 2015, 09:29:41 AM

Not only that, none of that will be available till November.....  Why would you wait? Anyone who needs a new gaming PC isn't going to wait for a steam machine, there's no benefit to it.

I was debating between the $50 Steam Link and the $200 Nvidia Shield Console for my streaming needs, but guess I"m going with NVidia so I don't have to wait an extra six months.
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Reply #151 on: March 07, 2015, 10:33:18 AM

Some of those are in the $450-500 range, which doesn't seem too bad compared to the PS4 at $400 and the Xbone at $350. I'm not really sure how much cheaper anyone was expecting them to be.

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Reply #152 on: March 07, 2015, 05:24:45 PM

It's not really about the price alone, but in context.  There is literally nothing presented here (with a November date none-the-less) that differentiates these "Steam Machines" from the exact same machines you can buy from these manufacturers today, or build yourself for much much cheaper.

And yes, while building is more complicated you still have to have really good knowledge on wtf each of the parts mean in order to know which of these *15* machines to buy.  The benefit that Valve is missing out on is to make a streamlined list that makes it as easy to pick out a steam machine as it is to pick out a console, for a good price.  Steam machines as presented here today do none-of-this, so I just don't see the point.  Either you know what you need and you'll buy these machines today from the manufacturers, or you don't know what you need and the Steam Machine marketing push does nothing to help.
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Reply #153 on: March 08, 2015, 07:22:01 PM


I agree that they would gain from some sort of "gold, silver, bronze" ranking since the machines are all over the shop and judging value will be challenging. In practice I expect only a couple will get any sort of traction or reputation, with the Alien-ware still looking well-integrated and with a name behind it. But I guess valve doesn't want to be in the commodity hardware business or facing accusations of it being a "closed" environment.

They're not for me, but it's the first viable "off the shelf" consolized lounge-room gaming PC I've seen.

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Reply #154 on: March 08, 2015, 08:06:07 PM

I still fail to see the draw. You're paying as much as any PC, but you're limited to Steam OS and Steam games on the device.

"Oh look, I paid the same for 1/100th the functionality" Woo!

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Reply #155 on: March 08, 2015, 09:23:11 PM

People like their couches.
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Reply #156 on: March 08, 2015, 09:45:23 PM

I still fail to see the draw. You're paying as much as any PC, but you're limited to Steam OS and Steam games on the device.

"Oh look, I paid the same for 1/100th the functionality" Woo!
It's like you've never met a console player.

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Reply #157 on: March 09, 2015, 04:47:18 AM

I know some people who can't afford a decent gaming PC, but are not interested in console gaming. If they can pay 500-600 $€£ for a PC that will allow them to play most if not all games, they would go for it instead of being forced to get a console which, with the current generation, is already obsolete. Let's not forget that the *promise* here is that at the same price point these machines would perform better gamewise than a traditional 500-600 PC.

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Reply #158 on: March 09, 2015, 08:03:29 AM

People like their couches.

Those people must own shitty computer chairs.

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Sky
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Reply #159 on: March 09, 2015, 10:42:57 AM

People like their couches.
Again. Since 2003.

If people liked their couches, they'd be playing their pc games on them instead of being huddled over some desk in the basement or whatever. I don't think you can buy a tv that can't be plugged into a computer these days. Why back in my day we had to work for it!

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Reply #160 on: March 09, 2015, 05:38:01 PM

Yeah, the "I want to play from my couch" thing is a VERY feeble excuse these days.  Vid cards have been able to output HDMI or utilize DVI to HDMI cables for a while. All I have to do is route it to my TV instead of a monitor. Voila.

If dummies want to pay 3-4x the cost of a good rig for a pretty box and someone else to give them cables, I'll judge the hell out of the sheep being fleeced but won't give anything but kudos to those doing it.


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KallDrexx
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Reply #161 on: March 09, 2015, 06:44:14 PM

The real things allowing PC gamers to push forward are the Steam Link and Nvidia Shield console.  Those are really the "PC Gamers want to play games on their tv" announcements from the past few days, as most people either have their Gaming pc at a desk or attached to their TV permanently, rarely both because it's a bit of a pain to constantly switch unless everything is literally in one room.

Steam Link has the advantage of being $50 for a stream receiver which is ridiculously low compared to any HTPC you can buy or build that's capable of 1080p game streaming + input.

NVidia Shield Console is $200 (same price as most HTPCs I've specced out or looked at) that can support 4k streaming at 60FPS.

Other than those, the other steam machines really have nothing to do with "I want to play from my couch".
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Reply #162 on: March 10, 2015, 07:37:40 AM

Yeah, the "I want to play from my couch" thing is a VERY feeble excuse these days.  Vid cards have been able to output HDMI or utilize DVI to HDMI cables for a while. All I have to do is route it to my TV instead of a monitor. Voila.

If dummies want to pay 3-4x the cost of a good rig for a pretty box and someone else to give them cables, I'll judge the hell out of the sheep being fleeced but won't give anything but kudos to those doing it.



$400-$500 is about a third the cost of my gaming rig.  Its really not a bad deal, especially if it gets some traction.  A lot of smaller developers are already making their games with controllers in mind.  Once you have a customer base setup, Steam should be able to do to consoles what it did for PC gaming, and open up the market to small/indie developers, while being able to offer a shit ton of games at a fraction of what the console makers charge for their disked version.

All relies on if it can get traction, but if so, paying that much for one of these is not getting any more fleeced than paying for a PS4.

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Reply #163 on: March 10, 2015, 09:27:12 AM

There is ONE machine at that price point so calling it a 400-500 range is generous at best.  It's more like $500-$600 for the low-end of the platform, up to the price of a ultra PC at the high end, only crippled as a device.  You can do what you're doing right now on a PC, you can't on the steambox.

This wasn't meant to be 'another console' but a 'standardized pc platform.'  If it's becoming another console, fine. Then I'll treat it as such and rip it apart for the $4k box.

And yes, people were getting fleeced for PS4 and XBones, too. Unnecessary consoles that have anemic libraries one year in. Woo!

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Reply #164 on: March 10, 2015, 09:42:10 AM

I hate playing on a couch and I suck with controllers, so this doesn't interest me.  But I can understand why someone would want one.  It also means you can sit in a more communal area of the house instead of being holed up in your office, which some people prefer. To me it's just another piece of hardware I don't want to buy.  No lack of those around.

At least Sky realized he is yelling at clouds by getting upset about these things. 
Sky
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Reply #165 on: March 10, 2015, 10:18:54 AM

I'm not upset about it at all. Just curious that more people haven't embraced pc gaming in the living room, especially now that it's trivial to set up and modern games support it (neither was the case 12 years ago).

Though my eyes do roll to the back of my head when people do the couch=console nonsense. That's a choice, not an absolute.

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Reply #166 on: March 10, 2015, 10:27:28 AM

I'm not upset about it at all. Just curious that more people haven't embraced pc gaming in the living room, especially now that it's trivial to set up and modern games support it (neither was the case 12 years ago).

Though my eyes do roll to the back of my head when people do the couch=console nonsense. That's a choice, not an absolute.

Most people think of the computer as the thing in the office and the console as the thing in the living room.  That's a cultural thing at this point and it's going to take more than just the possibility of hooking up a PC to a TV to shift it - say something like a steam machine that blends the two. 
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Reply #167 on: March 10, 2015, 11:49:08 AM

Really the big hindrance to PC gaming on the couch really is the mouse/keyboard interface - using one of those on the couch requires a specialized set up compared to a console controller. The OS and Steam Controller are really the crux of this whole Steam machines thing - after all, you could build your own Steam Machine from off the shelf parts if you want, and just grab the SteamOS and install that flavor of Linux (at least I think the SteamOS is free).

The Steam Machines just make sure you pay a premium for someone else to do that hard work for you.

I'm intrigued, mainly by the controller - just not intrigued enough to want to spend what would be the budget for my next gaming PC on it.

Sky
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Reply #168 on: March 10, 2015, 03:19:21 PM

Most people think of the computer as the thing in the office and the console as the thing in the living room. 
Most people are fucking morons. We're not talking about them.

Haemmy, the keyb/m is not really all that difficult. I switched to a wired mouse a couple years ago (plugged into a USB hub under my coffee table, which is also handy for my card reader) because I got tired of spotty RF, but the RF keyboard has been great.

Anyway, it's not like I haven't said this enough to get a greif tittle out of it.

Also, lol controller gaming fps, mmo, tbs, rts, etclol

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Reply #169 on: March 10, 2015, 07:25:32 PM

I do think the stream controller has potential to make controller gaming be more viable for kb+M games.  Even if it can't 100% compete as long as it works well than I'll be all for it
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Reply #170 on: March 10, 2015, 07:36:10 PM

Some of those are in the $450-500 range, which doesn't seem too bad compared to the PS4 at $400 and the Xbone at $350. I'm not really sure how much cheaper anyone was expecting them to be.
The Windows version of the Alienware Alpha is just $20 more* compared to the SteamOS version. If are going to be running on a gimped platform with a fraction of the game support of Windows there needs to be a compelling reason to switch, and saving $20 is not a compelling reason.

* Not including the price difference between the Xbox controller and the Steam controller, presumably the Steam controller is more expensive to buy separately

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Reply #171 on: March 11, 2015, 04:42:45 AM

Most people think of the computer as the thing in the office and the console as the thing in the living room. 
Most people are fucking morons. We're not talking about them.

Haemmy, the keyb/m is not really all that difficult. I switched to a wired mouse a couple years ago (plugged into a USB hub under my coffee table, which is also handy for my card reader) because I got tired of spotty RF, but the RF keyboard has been great.

Anyway, it's not like I haven't said this enough to get a greif tittle out of it.

Also, lol controller gaming fps, mmo, tbs, rts, etclol
Wait, how do you do PC gaming in the living room?  Do you actually have the PC itself near the TV?  I'd thought you'd either be streaming it to the TV or running a cord from the office.  You don't actually try to do all your typing/non-gaming work on the couch do you?

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Reply #172 on: March 11, 2015, 08:24:31 AM

Personally, right now my desktop is a giant gaming + media box that's sitting next to my entertainment center.  I use my laptop for all web browsing and coding work.

I want to move the desktop out into my office, but in order to still play games on my TV when I want I need to hard wire my house and get a good game stream receiver mini-pc. 
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Reply #173 on: March 11, 2015, 08:31:52 AM

PC gaming in the living room has never managed to exceed niche status. There are lots of things a media-PC can do but they're still in the league of home-brew solutions. The market here is people who want to do no more than buy a box made by brand name Y from retailer X and plug it in when they get home.

Most of the steam-boxes on the site are from these sort of niche providers with no economy of scale or ability to do customised hardware solutions. They might get some "must have the best" buyers but the action, if any, will be at a lower price point and from the bigger manufacturers. The Asus and Alienware machines looking like the only serious contenders (the Gigabyte brix is a re-badged NUC). And even they will have trouble getting any sort of volume initially.

If you own a real PC or a media-PC none of these are interesting, other than perhaps fringe benefits from widening the pool of PC gamers.

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Reply #174 on: March 11, 2015, 08:35:29 AM

Some of those are in the $450-500 range, which doesn't seem too bad compared to the PS4 at $400 and the Xbone at $350. I'm not really sure how much cheaper anyone was expecting them to be.
The Windows version of the Alienware Alpha is just $20 more* compared to the SteamOS version. If are going to be running on a gimped platform with a fraction of the game support of Windows there needs to be a compelling reason to switch, and saving $20 is not a compelling reason.

* Not including the price difference between the Xbox controller and the Steam controller, presumably the Steam controller is more expensive to buy separately

It's about having control of the platform. If it's dependent on microsoft they can drop "teaser" rates like 20$ any-time they choose to, make a new platform (e.g. windows 10) that doesn't support, and they have incentive to do so given they own both a dominant console and the desktop.

Of course the "hardware support" is a non-issue for a standardised "appliance" systems. Just as the PS4 and XBone haven't suffered from not running windows.

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