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Title: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on September 23, 2013, 10:34:06 AM 0. Announcement Page: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/
1. Announcement 1 - Steam OS: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/ 2. Announcement 2 - Steam Machines: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamMachines/ 3. Announcement 3 - Controller: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/ I haven't read it. So my comment is "I bet it will look nice." Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Lucas on September 23, 2013, 10:39:05 AM That's it, Football Manager on my couch, on my TV: why should I go outside anymore and seek the company of other human beings?
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Thrawn on September 23, 2013, 10:43:13 AM I'm guessing I'm just not the target audience for this, but if I already have a Windows HTPC with an ok video card connected to my TV that I can play games on, I don't see the point of this or what it does for me.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Fabricated on September 23, 2013, 10:59:01 AM finally, I can stream my pc games to my tv with added latency and play them with a controller, as god intended
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Bunk on September 23, 2013, 11:00:12 AM I've got my tv hooked up to my pc, but using it is a bit of a pain. I have to switch audio output first, since my pc station isn't lined up with my tv's surround system. Now I have a wireless kb and mouse for the tv, but to use that to launch stuff I have to swap the main desktop over to the tv which is a pain, so instead I have to get up, pick the game I want to run from my pc, then go back to the tv (or occasionally, I lean over the couch using the mouse, trying to pinpoint the icon I want from ten feet away). Plus, if the game is running fullscreen, I have to switch desktops anyways, which always makes a mess of my icons.
Yea, I know there are lots of ways I could get around these issues, but having a separate "console" for pc games would definitely be the easiest one. So yea, I guess I'm the market. Plus I'd way rather have a console that ran all my games well and keep my computer for photoshop and general web stuff. Assuming they build this box with the ever changing demands on pc hardware in mind. If its just a static system like the XBox that won't be able to run new games 18 months after I buy it, then my interest will wane. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: schild on September 23, 2013, 11:03:54 AM It's a good time to do this. Windows 8 isn't good for the gamer and Apple has no actual business in the living room, not like this. The lines between office and living room are getting blurred, and Outside of the core productivity suite of Office - Valve owns the distribution channel from maker to user. Unlike Microsoft which still relies on outside sales to have things installed on their OS. Besides, Valve owns the hearts and minds of gamers. Microsoft owns DirectX and everyone effectively hates them.
This isn't a killing blow in any way for Microsoft. But it is a smooth move for Steam to position themselves to sort of eject both Microsoft and Apple from the living room before they even got there. The XBox One being a stillborn baby helps too. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Fabricated on September 23, 2013, 11:06:59 AM I can't really imagine the big publishers hopping on the SteamOS bandwagon as far as native support goes. Indie devs might get into this so long as Valve continues to treat them well with their cut.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: schild on September 23, 2013, 11:30:58 AM There are what? 4 "big" publishers left?
EA Activision uh uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh What the fuck happened to gaming when I blinked? Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: MrHat on September 23, 2013, 11:44:07 AM So is this basically trying to be like Android but instead of mobile gaming it's focused on traditional gaming?
Also, hundreds of games currently: http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/ Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Sky on September 23, 2013, 11:50:33 AM Obligatory "Since 2003™" post.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Quinton on September 23, 2013, 11:54:13 AM I can't really imagine the big publishers hopping on the SteamOS bandwagon as far as native support goes. Indie devs might get into this so long as Valve continues to treat them well with their cut. I'm sure it's an easier sell to the smaller shops than the big guys, but the reality is porting to Linux (especially in a constrained environment where you don't need to worry about random slashdot-neckbeard-gentoo-look-i-compiled-my-os-from-source! silliness) is not terribly hard these days and Valve has done a lot in the last year or so to make it easier (hermetic build environment in their steam-on-linux-sdk, leaning on GPU vendors to get drivers updated and bugs fixed, etc). I suspect that soon you'll be able to target their sdk and easily build for Windows, OSX, and SteamOS which is pretty convenient, and I suspect they're working with the middleware companies to make that even more seamless for people building on top of existing middleware/engines. When you look at just how few launch titles there are for PS4 and Xbone (and how at least for me the indie titles seem more interesting than the AAA snorefests), you start to think that bootstrapping the livingroom with SteamOS / SteamBox might not be to bad. Valve's got 300ish Linux titles in Steam right now? If they get an OEM or two signed up to ship reasonably priced plug-and-play boxes and get a couple impressive looking launch titles lined up, I don't think they're going to be in a bad place. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: murdoc on September 23, 2013, 12:12:03 PM I still don't know why I would want this over a dedicated PC running Windows connected to my home theater. Will I get the SteamOS version of a game when I buy the Windows version, because I sure as shit am still buying the Windows version to run on my laptop when I have to spend the weekend at the in-laws and they just want to watch reruns of Duck Dynasty.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Quinton on September 23, 2013, 12:28:52 PM If you've already got a dedicated PC hooked up, no need for it.
They're taking aim at people who might buy an Xbone or PS4 or don't have gaming in the living room yet. You always get all versions of a game on Steam -- you never buy "the windows version" or "the linux version" -- you just buy the game and it runs on all the supported platforms. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Rendakor on September 23, 2013, 12:29:01 PM If you buy it on Steam, why would you need to buy different versions?
Edit: beaten! Also spelling. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: KallDrexx on September 23, 2013, 12:37:33 PM If you buy it on Steam, why would you need to buy different versions? Edit: beaten! Also spelling. Steam allows you to play Mac, Linux or Windwos versions regardless of which one you buy. Also, this doesn't matter because the point of the streaming is that you can play your PC games on your TV without a dedicated PC already hooked up to your TV. Just buy a cheap pc, install steamOS on it, and viola (theoretically). I wonder how closely Valve is working with NVidia (I imagine quite a lot, if for no other reasons then to make linux drivers stop sucking) and if so I wonder if this is one of the core reasons behind the NVidia Shield (cause I can't honestly think of any other reason why anyone thinks SHIELD is a good idea). Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: murdoc on September 23, 2013, 12:39:37 PM You get always get all versions of a game on Steam -- you never buy "the windows version" or "the linux version" -- you just buy the game and it runs on all the supported platforms. Well duh - I should have known this. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Quinton on September 23, 2013, 12:53:54 PM I wonder how closely Valve is working with NVidia (I imagine quite a lot, if for no other reasons then to make linux drivers stop sucking) and if so I wonder if this is one of the core reasons behind the NVidia Shield (cause I can't honestly think of any other reason why anyone thinks SHIELD is a good idea). They've already said they're working very closely with nvidia, amd, and intel on GPU support. I'm not sure there's any reason SHIELD is a good idea, though ^^ Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Kageru on September 23, 2013, 03:20:16 PM Their own linux distribution, not unexpected. That will let them select the best of drivers, present a unified target for developers and incorporate binary drivers from Nvidia and ATI because they're so secretive. The streaming is a nice way to have some presence for those games that haven't yet been ported or have powerful PC's. I hope they'll offer any OS improvements back to Linux, but given the way Valve works I would be surprised if that is not the case. It's a very interesting move, could even work because there's some advantages to the hardware and software guys buying in to a more open platform. But they tend to be pretty sluggish and recalcitrant about trying something different so I could imagine it get tepid support. Unless Valve have been doing a lot of work behind the scenes. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Quinton on September 23, 2013, 03:52:58 PM It'll be interesting to see how streamlined whatever they do is. They could start with debian, ubuntu, etc as a base and just not include a lot of the standard packages, substitute in their preferred solution for video drivers, low latency audio, etc, or they could go much more custom.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Kageru on September 23, 2013, 04:23:26 PM There's no reason not to start with an established distribution (I believe it's Ubuntu 12.04) to get the free work that went into assembling and testing that distribution. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Quinton on September 23, 2013, 04:27:11 PM It depends what you're building. You also pick up a lot of baggage that you may or may not want, more moving parts to worry about when you merge up to newer versions, etc, and potential performance issues depending how well-behaved all the default background cruft is.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Falconeer on September 23, 2013, 04:29:41 PM It's funny, I keep thinking "pfffff this is ridiculous, they have no chances to make it. It's just silly... really? Yeah, you just come up with a new OS and a controller and you think it is that simple, haha I mean, a new console, in this market? And Valve? Hahaha cmon, guys... cmon.......... guys? Uhmmm... uhrr... ............................ ........................... hm....... ..........
....wow." Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Fabricated on September 23, 2013, 04:38:43 PM Unless everyone is planning on suddenly dropping DirectX I imagine WINE is going to be getting a shitload of paid contributors.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Kail on September 23, 2013, 04:49:31 PM You always get all versions of a game on Steam -- you never buy "the windows version" or "the linux version" -- you just buy the game and it runs on all the supported platforms. Not always, I think it's publisher prerogative. Call of Duty: Black Ops has a Windows version (http://store.steampowered.com/app/42700/) and a separate, full price (usually) Mac version. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/214630/) Hopefully that remains the exception to the rule. But I think publishers do at least have the option to screw everyone on this, they just haven't yet (mostly). Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Quinton on September 23, 2013, 05:04:07 PM It's funny, I keep thinking "pfffff this is ridiculous, they have no chances to make it. It's just silly... really? Yeah, you just come up with a new OS and a controller and you think it is that simple, haha I mean, a new console, in this market? And Valve? Hahaha cmon, guys... cmon.......... guys? Uhmmm... uhrr... ............................ ........................... hm....... .......... ....wow." It's really not that complicated. It's not simple and there are a lot of fiddly details, but the hardest parts are actually in the infrastructure (store, sales, online bits, handling publishing/distribution agreements and logistics, etc) which Valve has been doing forever. Steam has been running on Linux for a goodly while now, they've been getting the process of porting/supporting games on Linux down, and putting together a system that's "minimal linux distro + steam" is not rocket science by a long shot. "New OS" sounds far scarier than it needs to. The kernel and base bits are well-proven, and if they want they can throw out 90% of the stuff on top of that to keep stuff simple. Market-wise you have PC OEMs who are seeing the PC market shrinking and are interested in having new areas to expand to -- give them a no-cost-to-you ready-to-deploy platform and let them go compete with Microsoft and Sony for the living room. Really the hardest part of this is getting the content deals and Valve has been building a content ecosystem for years now. They've probably got the best shot of anyone to enter this space -- I'd give them better odds than Apple even, because they strike me as less no-compromise and more pragmatic about getting stuff ported to steam-on-linux than I suspect Apple would be about a livingroom platform. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: KallDrexx on September 23, 2013, 05:06:13 PM Unless everyone is planning on suddenly dropping DirectX I imagine WINE is going to be getting a shitload of paid contributors. That's the beauty of Valve's strategy. Get the install base so for right now linux users can play PC games (even though they need a Windows PC to do it). Use that install base (which is there although how big is debatable) to convince developers to develop games that work on Linux (which isn't that huge of a deal once drivers aren't shitty, since any game that wants to work on consoles generally has to have a non-DX version anyways). I think that's a better use of money than pouring money into WINE, which while is a nifty project will always be behind and buggy. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Kageru on September 23, 2013, 05:11:08 PM With more games being multi-platform, platforms like Unity and microsoft being distracted I think the DirectX "lock" might be weaker than ever.
There's minimal market for linux users playing Windows games. Because there's an increasing number of linux games and we can dual boot. That's not the target market. It's too small anyway. It's a reaction to the "post-PC" world where the biggest computer is a tablet / phablet or small laptop and the serious games . digital media all happen on the console attached to the nice TV. Microsoft wants this to happen and the PC market has no play in that future. HTPC machines are way too complex and expensive to compete with consoles for the mainstream. The steamOS plus reference design box gives the hardware vendors and PC software developers a chance to decide if they're going to compete. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Quinton on September 23, 2013, 05:22:54 PM Well Valve is also investing heavily in improving tooling for development and deployment on Linux. They've done some ports involving a library that implements D3D in terms of OpenGL (and ended up being better-performing for some games even with the additional layer!) and have been working on getting their own and other folks' middleware running well on Linux.
As pricing on hardware gets more and more competitive, cost of the OS becomes a larger and larger factor -- having an OS option that lets you play in a space but does not cost you per-unit is a big win (see interest in Android, ChromeOS, etc). I look at SteamOS as a Valve strategic play the same way Android is for Google -- ensuring there's a platform out there that they can deploy apps and content on in the "post-pc" world -- if the Microsofts, Apples, or Sonys of the world end up owning the next space the way Microsoft owned desktop computing for the 90s, the possibility of simply being locked out of the new ecosystem entirely is pretty scary. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Stormwaltz on September 23, 2013, 05:30:35 PM Late to the thread, but:
The lines between office and living room are getting blurred You don't have children. :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Quinton on September 23, 2013, 05:44:14 PM Late to the thread, but: The lines between office and living room are getting blurred You don't have children. :awesome_for_real: The interns seem to get younger every year! Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Fabricated on September 23, 2013, 07:25:53 PM I'm sure my question will be answered by the inevitable steam box but I also wonder how they expect to actually get people to convert.
Actual home desktop linux users are rarer than the white buffalo, if you're on a Mac you're wasting perfectly good overpriced hardware if you're not using OSX, and if you're on windows you're pretty much set. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Quinton on September 23, 2013, 07:33:06 PM Yeah, if this thing does well at all, it's going to be on new hardware people buy or build for it. If people already have a machine and an OS running on it they've probably got some non-steam/games/content use case that would argue for just sticking with what they've already got. I'm hoping they can get enough traction that it becomes an alternative to upgrading the gaming PC to windows 8 (or 9 or whatever) someday, but that'd be a ways out.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Kageru on September 23, 2013, 07:50:19 PM I'm sure my question will be answered by the inevitable steam box but I also wonder how they expect to actually get people to convert. Actual home desktop linux users are rarer than the white buffalo, if you're on a Mac you're wasting perfectly good overpriced hardware if you're not using OSX, and if you're on windows you're pretty much set. Why would they even try? Those platforms already run steam. They want a shot at the "no-PC" / living-room market. Oh, and it's this sort of article that provides one window into the future of the PC market (http://semiaccurate.com/2013/09/18/intel-proves-pcs-coming-back/). Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: Rendakor on September 23, 2013, 08:00:58 PM I'm hoping this works out in case Windows 9 doesn't, but I have no intention of buying one any time soon as my Win7 PC works fine.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: HaemishM on September 24, 2013, 09:28:21 AM There are what? 4 "big" publishers left? EA Activision uh uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh What the fuck happened to gaming when I blinked? Ubisoft is the only other "big" one there, and I am using that term loosely. There just aren't any BIG ONES left that don't already publish their own console. I'm interested to see where this goes. Valve has earned a lot of leeway with Steam so they have plenty of rope to hang themselves with. So long as this doesn't fuck up my Steam sales, it's all good. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. , 3.] Post by: schild on September 25, 2013, 10:30:11 AM http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamMachines/
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: schild on September 25, 2013, 10:30:43 AM I suppose this one was super obvious.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: schild on September 25, 2013, 10:34:00 AM What games will be available during the beta? The nearly 3,000 games on Steam. Hundreds already running natively on the SteamOS, with more to come. The rest will work seamlessly via in-home streaming. sooooooo SteamOS has directx? Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: MrHat on September 25, 2013, 10:35:56 AM What games will be available during the beta? The nearly 3,000 games on Steam. Hundreds already running natively on the SteamOS, with more to come. The rest will work seamlessly via in-home streaming. "Hundreds already running natively" still refers to their "300+ games running on Linux" from Monday. I like this one: Quote I’m pretty happy with my PC Gaming setup, do I have to buy a new piece of hardware now? No. Everything that we’ve been doing on Steam for the last 10 years will continue to move forward. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: Nonentity on September 25, 2013, 11:07:04 AM At the bottom of the Steam Machines article they mention that they'll be talking about input device soon.
I would be really interested to see if there's a device that can replicate a keyboard/mouse experience on the couch. We'll see. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: schild on September 25, 2013, 11:09:14 AM (http://i.imgur.com/UbnwGnI.jpg)
Get hype. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: sickrubik on September 25, 2013, 11:12:17 AM A GAME.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: Ingmar on September 25, 2013, 11:20:14 AM A mod should edit out that stearnpowered link, Sophos is blocking it for malware.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: schild on September 25, 2013, 11:27:41 AM Killed the whole bit.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: sickrubik on September 25, 2013, 11:32:10 AM God's work, sir.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: luckton on September 25, 2013, 12:43:52 PM Well I was able to do everything but play a game in Big Picture mode. Will have to wait till I get home. Great stuff!
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: luckton on September 25, 2013, 12:51:24 PM The new word on Friday's reveal is the Source2 game engine. It won't have a single line of DirectX code in it, but it will support Windows, Mac, Linux. And since we're getting a new engine, we need a game to show it off.
Half Life 3 confirmed. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: MrHat on September 25, 2013, 01:53:39 PM The new word on Friday's reveal is the Source2 game engine. It won't have a single line of DirectX code in it, but it will support Windows, Mac, Linux. And since we're getting a new engine, we need a game to show it off. Half Life 3 confirmed. Could just be Left for Dead 3 or something similar. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: sickrubik on September 25, 2013, 01:59:35 PM The new word on Friday's reveal is the Source2 game engine. It won't have a single line of DirectX code in it, but it will support Windows, Mac, Linux. And since we're getting a new engine, we need a game to show it off. Half Life 3 confirmed. That's what the image that schild posted up there was all about, yeah. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: tazelbain on September 25, 2013, 02:03:55 PM Where TF2 was about collecting hats, HL3 will be about collecting glasses.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: Kageru on September 25, 2013, 05:25:49 PM Most of that post seems believable, especially the intel part :/ ... makes me happy. Not because I want a steam box (I don't even have a TV to put it under) but because the flow on effects for linux gaming should be sweet. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: schild on September 25, 2013, 05:30:27 PM Where TF2 was about collecting hats, HL3 will be about collecting glasses. whatever it takes to get half-life 3Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: Yegolev on September 25, 2013, 06:46:31 PM You'll get a tech demo starring a crowbar... and you'll love it.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: schild on September 25, 2013, 07:26:27 PM IF THAT'S HALF LIFE 3, FINE
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: Teleku on September 27, 2013, 09:59:45 AM One minute to the announcement of a revamped hat store for TF2 guys!
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: Teleku on September 27, 2013, 10:01:01 AM Never mind, its just more tears for Half Life fans. :awesome_for_real:
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3.] Post by: HaemishM on September 27, 2013, 10:11:10 AM That controller does look very interesting, though.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on September 27, 2013, 10:31:19 AM http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/
It doesn't look interesting. It looks like they're forcing a reinvention of the wheel. Stupid. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Nightblade on September 27, 2013, 10:36:10 AM http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/ It doesn't look interesting. It looks like they're forcing a reinvention of the wheel. Stupid. It looks like they have first person games in mind with this controller. It's an interesting idea, but makes me wonder how this thing's going to fare with non-FPS games. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on September 27, 2013, 10:39:51 AM Reinventing the mouse and keyboard isn't any better (and yes, it's obvious they're trying to make a controller for FPS games, WE DIDN'T ASK FOR THIS)
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: waffel on September 27, 2013, 10:44:03 AM They're reinventing the console controller, not keyboard and mouse.
And plus, old, stubborn, bitchy PC gamers aren't who they're appealing to anyway. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Teleku on September 27, 2013, 10:44:58 AM Eh, I'm willing to give them a chance. They want the controller to be able to play every game on steam. Which implies they are attempting to create a controller that is suited to playing all manner of games, not just FPS games. We'll see how that turns out I guess.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Lightstalker on September 27, 2013, 10:46:08 AM I guess with the demise of Blackberry someone had to step up and ensure we continue the war on thumbs.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Merusk on September 27, 2013, 10:50:48 AM http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/ It doesn't look interesting. It looks like they're forcing a reinvention of the wheel. Stupid. It's also designed entirely around a 6' male with average+ hand sizes. Female gamers, young people and folks with small hands are thrilled. Really, look at the picture of the guy holding it. The grips are monster-sized in HIS hands, it's going to be awkward for anyone smaller than that. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: waffel on September 27, 2013, 10:52:37 AM Lets hope they make 10 or so different sized controllers to fit everyone's hand size.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Ingmar on September 27, 2013, 11:13:46 AM Trackpads? Ugh.
As for the size, you can't tell how big the person holding it is from a picture of just a pair of hands and a controller, I don't see a big reason to worry about that. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Soln on September 27, 2013, 12:24:36 PM this included? (better haptics. Mentions audio, which could be low frequency stuff as well).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3KipWYT1l5I Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Fordel on September 27, 2013, 12:53:17 PM Where's the jump button?
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Fabricated on September 27, 2013, 01:09:10 PM Yeah that kinda looks dumb. The main reaction seems to be "THIS ISN'T HALF LIFE 3" however because gamers are retarded.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Falconeer on September 27, 2013, 01:28:53 PM Games changed, but I gotta tell you something: something similar to this worked for the Intellivision 30 years ago, so I am on board.
(http://www.gratuitousscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/IntellivisionController.jpg) Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Venkman on September 27, 2013, 01:38:20 PM Heh yea, but that controller could only work with those games made for it. The convention of normal game controllers hasn't really changed much in the last decade, and I assume anyone using controllers on a PC are using one similar to that standard too.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: HaemishM on September 27, 2013, 01:50:54 PM I'm not saying that controller will work... but it sure would be great if something besides mouse and keyboard DID work, especially for a living room setup like they are trying to build with the Steam Machines. If it doesn't, it won't hurt anything other than Valve not putting resources into Half Life 3.
DAMN YOU, VALVE!!! Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Fordel on September 27, 2013, 02:06:54 PM I guess if I can still use a Xbox controller on the steambox, I don't have to care their new controller doesn't have a jump button.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: K9 on September 27, 2013, 02:43:08 PM I'm sure it will integrate nicely with Oculus Rift; it does look better than current gamepads for sure. I cast a fairly dim view on their assertion that this can let you play RTS, 4X, and MOBA games though; I'm also leery about whether this will be even close to competitive to a Keyboard and Mouse for FPS. In my experience the fine control over large areas that a mouse offers has never been recaptured, even slightly, by gamepads.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on September 27, 2013, 03:20:09 PM It was terrible on the Intellivision, old man.
Edit: That was a response to Falconeer. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Quinton on September 27, 2013, 04:15:38 PM The controller is definitely the least interesting thing they've announced. Not surprising (they've had people hacking on controllers for a year plus now, iirc), but I'm pretty skeptical of touch working better that analog or digital control sticks. Touch and precision are two words I don't really associate. But hey, I'd give one a try.
They're already supporting regular game controllers, keyboards, and mice, and I cannot imagine they'll stop doing that, so no worry there at least. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Ingmar on September 27, 2013, 04:17:01 PM Hated the Intellivision controller, my grandma had one of those things. Thinking about it, I'm not sure why. (Why she had one, not why I hated the controller.)
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Trippy on September 27, 2013, 04:20:23 PM It was good for Baseball, and that's about it.
Virtual touch controllers are horrible horrible things in mobile games. Supposedly the Valve ones will have some sort of haptic feedback. It remains to be seem if that actually helps or if they continue to be horrible horrible things. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Falconeer on September 27, 2013, 04:22:40 PM It was terrible on the Intellivision, old man. Edit: That was a response to Falconeer. What are you talking about? What was terrible were the side buttons, because they were just so hard to push. But the disc felt great on so many games. It's just that the games were built for it. Having 16 directions for sport games was really cool, and Utopia played just right with it. Not to mention Swords & Serpents and many others. Auto Racing, Snafu, Donkey Kong, Burger Time, and the ones that required 45° precision? Not so much. Anyway, more seriously I don't see how (the Steam one) can work with today's games. The Inty one made sense in a world that was 'discovering' videogames and videogames, and while it was ahead (a gamepad instead of a joystick. First one ever?) was also not so responsive (too much dead zone and too many useless directions). And it ended up being a losing concept anyway. But todays gamers seem to know what they like and this Steam-pad feels more like a gimmick than something people will want to spend time training their muscle memory into. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Margalis on September 27, 2013, 05:15:05 PM It seems like this controller is optimal for FPS and lousy for almost everything else.
There's no way it's going to replace m/kb in an RTS, and no way it's going to replace a standard controller in an action game. How would play something like Arkham City on it? Or any game where your left thumb sits on the left stick and your right thumb over the face buttons? (None of the thumb face buttons are adjacent and only two are reachable with the right thumb) "We can throw virtual buttons onto the touch screen" sounds like a cop-out. Yes, you can, but not for a fast-paced game, a game with a lot of inputs, or a game where you want to press things simultaneously or in quick succession. Also it has no digital pad at all, which means it completely fails for 2D fighting games and most other precision-oriented 2D-ish games. (Also a lot of games map weapon switching to the dpad - I suppose this will use the touch-screen instead?) In the end it feels to me like something you'd drag out just to play an FPS, and after a few days throw it in a closet and forget about it. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Venkman on September 27, 2013, 05:24:37 PM I imagine keyboard and mouse will work just fiine. Or, maybe that's wishful thinking. SteamBox interests me only insofar as I can sit on a couch and play PC games on my projector to play the same games with the same control scheme I've enjoyed for decades. If I wanted a controller, I'd dust off my Xbox 360 and give any shit about the next consoles.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Rendakor on September 27, 2013, 05:26:35 PM FPS is the most popular genre on consoles, so that's the crowd this is chasing. If the Xbox kids can play CoD on a Steambox and feel familiar, that'll mean money hats for Valve. By comparison, the market for RTS fans who don't own PCs is miniscule.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Margalis on September 27, 2013, 07:11:09 PM FPS games work just fine with an xbox controller. (As evidenced by the fact that FPS is now super popular on console) I assume this will be more precise, but aiming precision is not something people seem to care about all that much these days. As a m/kb user it probably matters, but I have trouble seeing many console gamers caring.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Fordel on September 27, 2013, 08:01:28 PM Yea, I've been fooling around with StreetFighters on the PC recently, and the standard Xbox controller is bad enough, I can't imagine trying to play with this trackpad thing.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Xuri on September 28, 2013, 06:11:26 AM I've never gotten along well with PS3/Xbox360 controllers (my thumbs seem to be incompatible with analogue sticks), but I like what I'm hearing (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TommyRefenes/20130928/201219/My_time_with_the_Steam_Controller.php) about this one, so far.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: patience on September 28, 2013, 11:00:20 AM Well this things is great for platformers and this report is only about a prototype that didn't even have the LCD screen and used 4 buttons on the back grip instead of 2.
http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/62476523677/my-time-with-the-steam-controller Yea, I've been fooling around with StreetFighters on the PC recently, and the standard Xbox controller is bad enough, I can't imagine trying to play with this trackpad thing. I'd bet $100 this is better than a fighting game stick. The layout suggests to me it will be almost as good as a hitbox which trumps game sticks so thoroughly people who could never do Zangief's full circle motions on traditional controllers could execute them. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kail on September 28, 2013, 02:45:55 PM I'm more worried about the compatibility than the functionality. A lot of games don't recognize non-Xbox controllers, and I don't see this thing having that much more market penetration than Logitech, Thrustmaster, Razer, et al. They say it works with every game, which is kind of a head scratcher, given how much of a pain it is in the current setup to get a controller that works with EVERYTHING, I kind of suspect that it's going to work, but not well, with a lot of controller games.
And if there are games which are "Controller Supported" which don't support the Steam pad, Valve is probably going to get more blowback than Logitech or whoever because it's their store and their OS and their controller. About the only thing I can think of is that Valve is either going to add a new "Steam Controller Supported" tag, or lean heavily on companies so that every game which wants the "Controller Supported" tag has to be Steam controller compatible, which is going to inconvenience a lot of indie studios using XNA. edit: I'm also not nuts about the wireless thing. Hoping that's an option rather than the only way to buy them. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: rk47 on September 29, 2013, 07:56:30 PM Yea, I've been fooling around with StreetFighters on the PC recently, and the standard Xbox controller is bad enough, I can't imagine trying to play with this trackpad thing. That moment when you double quarter circle forward Ultra turns into a reverse dragon punch to teleport forward always killed me when playing Seth. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Nightblade on September 30, 2013, 10:26:24 AM Quote The layout suggests to me it will be almost as good as a hitbox which trumps game sticks so thoroughly people who could never do Zangief's full circle motions on traditional controllers could execute them. I... don't think so. Ignoring that the haptic "pad" will likely be awful for the precision needed for the execution fighting game motions, the button layout will make pulling off pretty much anything in a fighting game a pain in the ass. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Falconeer on October 02, 2013, 03:51:20 AM (http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/www.tomshw.it/files/2013/10/immagini_contenuti/49605/hl3-02_t.jpg.pagespeed.ce.gpXBXts33l.jpg)
Turns out this has just been 'copyrighted'. http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/01/half-life-3-trademark-filed-by-valve Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Merusk on October 02, 2013, 04:27:24 AM It's in Europe, where "Blizzard" also filed numerous amusing copyrights that later turned out to be someone who'd figured out anyone can file something and list whatever company they want. I'd go with Hoax until Valve says something.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Trippy on October 02, 2013, 12:30:59 PM Trademarks are different from copyrights.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on October 02, 2013, 07:48:25 PM LOOKIT DAT APERTURE LOGO IN THERE
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Lucas on October 07, 2013, 06:59:33 AM Whoa, prototype specs:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/valve-reveals-specs-for-its-steam-machine-prototype-6415349 http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse#announcements/detail/2145128928746175450 Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on October 07, 2013, 09:59:28 AM That's going to be a pricey box. Last time I looked Titans ran about $1k each.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Ragnoros on October 07, 2013, 11:36:10 AM Eh, with four GPU options and only 300 boxes they are probably only shipping like 50 or so equipped with titans. Regardless, a few hundred grand is chump change for valve.
That said, even their lowest test box is well over $600 off the shelf. I would think they would be testing some cheaper variants, because I can't really see Steamboxes competing with Xbone/PS4 if they cost twice as much, yet you can only play a handful of Linux games and stream shit from your other $600+ PC. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on October 07, 2013, 01:27:17 PM This will 100% be a loss leader for Valve to destroy the living room as it currently stands. Expect Steam integration to include TV and TIVO shit at launch.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Quinton on October 07, 2013, 01:39:37 PM If they can convince one or more PC OEMs to build a more integrated box they should be able to get the pricing competitive -- and Valve could potentially offer some amount of rev share with the OEMs if they wanted to encourage even more aggressive pricing.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Pennilenko on October 07, 2013, 01:59:17 PM Isn't it safe to assume that a large portion of valves customers are already good to go in the pc ownership category? If so, is this an attempt at converting console only only kind of people?
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Quinton on October 07, 2013, 02:21:04 PM Yeah, existing customers can obviously keep running Steam on their PCs as they already do... but maybe they'll consider a steambox to bring that library into their livingroom if they haven't already put a PC there... and of course the console market is ripe for disruption.
People keep pointing out that Steam only has a few hundred titles for Linux at the moment, but that's a lot more titles than either of the PS4 or Xbone will have available at launch... if Valve could get a few shiny AAA titles and a few snazzy new indie titles (the latter will be easier than the former), they're going to be able to be competitive with the nextgen consoles library-wise. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on October 07, 2013, 02:24:39 PM Yeah, PC owners have little reason to care. Unless you want a cheap HTPC for the living room. But it's mostly a hedge against microsoft going "walled garden" and for a post-PC future where a lot of families most powerful computers are an x-box and a tablet.
The current boxes are prototypes to test upper and lower hardware bounds for a box launching next year. I'd be pretty confident the titan is purely a test point rather than indicative of what will ship in the bulk of mass market steam boxes. It's good news for linux gamers, but that's just a side-effect... certainly too small a market to actually be the focus. Linux in the box was a no brainer because for a cheap box license fees and windows dependency would make it non-competitive. But even there it's more "not windows" than pro-linux. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Trippy on October 07, 2013, 02:29:24 PM It's not really a hedge cause if Microsoft wanted to (and was willing to risk the anti-trust scrutiny) they could follow through on their threat to lock Linux out of motherboards that are licensed to run Windows.
Yes Valve could pay some of the desktop motherboard vendors to release versions with custom UEFI/BIOS that aren't locked out but that's extra cost for everybody involved. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on October 08, 2013, 12:11:31 AM The hardware that will be in the steambox doesn't need windows certification... If microsoft gets even more monopolistic (it's already making it hard for linux vendors with UEFI) it would be a pain, but it's already pissed off the hardware guys by springing the fact it wants to be a device company (and would be competing with them in tablets, except they pay license fees and it doesn't) and PC's are not regarded as a growth market. I wouldn't be surprised if people worked around them while waiting for anti-trust to slap them down. But I was actually drawing it from Gabe's quote; Quote “We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality. This was when windows8RT was all about secure boot-loader and all apps coming through the microsoft run store had people really worried. Thankfully microsoft are fairly sluggish and incompetent even at being evil. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on October 11, 2013, 01:10:52 PM Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/10/11/valve-demonstrates-steam-controller-in-new-video/) has a video demonstration of the controller.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: K9 on October 11, 2013, 03:38:48 PM Youtube link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI)
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Trippy on October 11, 2013, 03:45:35 PM Oh god it's like the worst of both worlds. LOL console shooter controls plus mousing on a teeny tiny surface so you have to constantly "lift" the mouse.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: MrHat on October 11, 2013, 03:50:53 PM Ya, I noticed that too.
I wonder if they tried just a sensitive track ball. It looked really awkward to use. I did like the blended movement at the end though. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: K9 on October 12, 2013, 02:52:30 AM It's basically like playing with a trackpad as I see it; which is doable, but neither the most comfortable nor optimal thing.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on October 12, 2013, 12:45:23 PM It's basically like playing with a trackpad as I see it; which is doable, but neither the most comfortable nor optimal thing. Except that playing with a trackpad is completely different due to orgonomics. You interact with a touchpad by having your whole hand vertically above the trackpad while this you have your thumb resting on the pad area (which should make it much quicker and comfortable to swipe). Honestly, while this isn't going to be a 100% replacement for everyone, I think this could make it enjoyable to play games without dragging my mouse and keyboard to my couch. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on December 11, 2013, 01:43:46 PM Steambox and controller prototype testers will be emailed within the next hour (2pm Pacific)
SteamOS will also be released for people to play with, although they say if you aren't a linux hacker you should stay away until later in 2014. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse#announcements/detail/1930088300965516570 Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on December 11, 2013, 04:49:12 PM I am so not going to be one of the people getting one of these :(
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: luckton on December 11, 2013, 11:18:55 PM I am so not going to be one of the people getting one of these :( Same, but it'll be nice to at least get the SteamOS out in the open. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on December 12, 2013, 07:27:07 AM I just want to try out the controller.
I also wonder if the windows steam client will have any code built in to receive steam streams. It would still be good to be able to stream steam games from windows -> windows. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schpain on December 12, 2013, 06:50:52 PM stop saying steam stream, it makes me want to hurl.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Yegolev on December 13, 2013, 07:57:46 AM I just want to try out the controller. Let me know if it feels like a boob. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on December 13, 2013, 08:11:44 AM The only reason I wanted one of these was to install Windows on it and not have to buy a new computer.
Does anyone actually care about what they're doing with this shit? Because I certainly don't. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Signe on December 13, 2013, 09:24:23 AM I enjoyed some of the "Direct the US Only rage here" thread.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on December 14, 2013, 11:07:19 PM Does anyone actually care about what they're doing with this shit? Because I certainly don't. I do, a non-proprietary platform for the living room sounds good and it being Steam extends the market for PC games. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on December 15, 2013, 02:00:50 AM Does anyone actually care about what they're doing with this shit? Because I certainly don't. I do, a non-proprietary platform for the living room sounds good and it being Steam extends the market for PC games. We all know how to build/buy a computer and shove it behind a TV. I don't see the Steambox doing anything better other than possibly being subsidized in some capacity if it comes from Valve. Really, a whole shitload of people just wanted a free computer with a Titan inside. 300 got them. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Quinton on December 15, 2013, 02:13:09 AM The hardware beta is uninteresting -- but given how many people certainly applied, how few units they were handing out, and the fact that I had a gaming machine in the living room already it didn't make much difference either way, really.
The interesting stuff about steambox/steamos to me is: - seeing the living room console space disrupted by somebody not tied to locked-down drm-ified systems - the likelyhood that this will encourage PC OEMs to build PCs in what I feel is a more useful formfactor -- I don't need 8 drive bays or an enormous tower or whatnot -- just want a reasonable smallish box I can swap around the mainboard/powersupply/gpu/drives in - the possibility that longer term windows will not be necessary for gaming -- I'd love to never have to upgrade to win8 Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on December 16, 2013, 06:48:27 AM The more PC gamers the more PC games. I don't need to own a steam-box to benefit from it (though the controller is interesting). I don't see any better chance for the PC to compete in the living room, in the mass-market or to the tablet generation who might not ever own a PC. In that space microsoft is a competitor (via xbox and surface) so there's no chance of them doing anything useful, and the hardware vendors lack direction and software. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Baldrake on December 16, 2013, 11:38:08 AM I have no doubt they will get there, but Valve has a long way to go. I've been using Big Picture quite a bit lately, and it's amazing how often you still have to fall back to using the mouse and keyboard.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on January 06, 2014, 06:37:12 PM They know that, it's why the controller is designed to be able to handle a KB+M game.
Apparently they're showing off third-party steam-boxes at CES... there's lots of pictures on most of the gaming sites. Gigabyte and Alienware would be the big names, many of them I don't really recognise. Aiming for retail second half of 2014. There's a brochure (http://media.steampowered.com/store/steammachines/SteamMachinesBroc_WEB.PDF) but it's getting hammered. And it's pretty obvious some of the vendors either don't get it, like Falcon Northwest's 2K "It's just a PC", or just assume some people will pay any price to own the biggest numbers on their steambox. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on January 06, 2014, 06:47:16 PM I believe Valve is making a mistake by not partnering with someone and offering a heavily subsidized box ~$300-$400 tops for the first generation of them. You CAN buy your way into the living room. They're just not doing that.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on January 06, 2014, 07:00:19 PM Depends on how you see the goal. If they wanted to get into the hardware business and own a proprietary platform that would be the right move. Though I'm not sure they can afford to go up against MS. But I think they're more interested in keeping the PC platform open and vibrant which means they need to provide a growth strategy, something that the PC hardware vendors and microsoft are incapable or uninterested in doing. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Goreschach on January 06, 2014, 08:00:32 PM Depends on how you see the goal. If they wanted to get into the hardware business and own a proprietary platform that would be the right move. Though I'm not sure they can afford to go up against MS. But I think they're more interested in keeping the PC platform open and vibrant which means they need to provide a growth strategy, something that the PC hardware vendors and microsoft are incapable or uninterested in doing. Microsoft and Sony can subsidize their consoles because they have the consoles locked down and receive licensing fees from developers. Sure, technically you can(or at least eventually will be able to) jailbreak them and install linux on them, but that is a very niche thing. The steamboxes, however, are just generic pc's. There is really no way Valve could get away with selling a moderately powerful generic pc at a subsidy, because tons of people would buy them even if they didn't care about steam or pc games in general. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: luckton on January 07, 2014, 04:08:29 AM I think the vendors "get it" in that SteamOS is their ticket to having their brand in the living room. Believe it or not, but there are gaming enthusiasts out there, even PC variants, that don't know and/or don't give a shit about hardware, the inner workings, and how it all goes/comes together. They just like to game, and they game hard. Those same people can be fiercely loyal to certain brands, almost always buying an Alienware or Doghouse system whenever it's time for an upgrade.
SteamOS presents the vendors with the chance of playing on the same field as the Big Three console vendors; a chance to get into the living room/bedroom in a way that neither Microsoft nor Apple ever gave them with their OS offerings. We're seeing the same pioneering of a new thing that you see with any new thing; everyone tries to get their dog in the fight and see what sticks and who's left standing at the end. Some will succeed and do very well, others won't. Or, as my Lib. lab rat would say, "CAPITALISM, BITCH!" As far as Valve is concerned, their money depends on people getting purchases off of Steam. The more people that are exposed to the Steam Store, the more potential profit there is. So why "not" let every hardware vendor that wants to fly the Steam logo do what they want? I for one would be glad to see the PC section of GameStop start to take back more of the store's footprint aside from the one side of one standing shelf in the dusty corner of the store. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on January 07, 2014, 05:44:04 AM ArsTechnica (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/01/gallery-the-13-steam-machines-and-all-of-their-glorious-variety/) has an article up with the prices of the steam boxes. I think they are way too expensive to make any real inroads. Sure they aren't over priced as far as gaming pcs are concerned, but if you wanted a gaming pc you either already have one or already started saving up money for one and planned to get one. The price of these doesn't really change the equation at all.
*edit* More to the point it shows that not one person who is involved with the steambox production (valve nor these manufacturers) understand why console gaming is so big right now. There's no clear strategy to the hardware, there's no clear way to know which one is better than another, there's no way to know what you can do with one that you can't do with the other. Everything is absolutely confusing for anyone not already up to date on PC gaming hardware (and if you are you probably already have a gaming pc box and have no reason to buy one of these). The truth is these "steamboxes" are nothing more than pcs these manufacturers already made (with maybe a tidied up case) with a steam logo attached. It makes me annoyed because there is so much potential here, but if you are trying to convince someone that wants to either buy a $200 360 or $500 XB1/PS4 that they should get a steambox instead, they've totally blown it. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: luckton on January 07, 2014, 06:10:02 AM For shits and giggles, I dare you to build the CyperPowerPC build for less. Their price also includes the fancy haptic controller. Go ahead, I'll wait.
:popcorn: Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on January 07, 2014, 06:15:07 AM For shits and giggles, I dare you to build the CyperPowerPC build for less. Their price also includes the fancy haptic controller. Go ahead, I'll wait. :popcorn: You mean that one that says $499 *and up*? Meaning we don't really know what you get at the $499 level. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: luckton on January 07, 2014, 06:35:22 AM Actually, we do know...
http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/06/cyberpowerpc-steam-machines/ Quote The cheaper Steam Machine A is packing a 3.9GHz A6 CPU from AMD as well as a 2GB Radeon R9 270 graphics card. It's hardly a barn burner, but it should be more than enough to get you through most modern games. The Steam Machine I, on the other hand, boasts a 3.5GHz Core i3 and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 graphics, as well as 802.11ac WiFi. Though, that configuration pushes the starting price up to $699. And here the real kicker: Quote Of course, being a veteran of the gaming PC industry, CyberPower is allowing customers to customize pretty much every facet of the machine. So, who knows what the price will top out at? As you said, we're getting a PC. So as a vendor, why not allow the people the ability to customize the parts like we can do now and have done for a long time? Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Miasma on January 07, 2014, 07:08:44 AM The truth is these "steamboxes" are nothing more than pcs these manufacturers already made (with maybe a tidied up case) with a steam logo attached. That's all the ps4 and xbox one are at this point too. Mid range PCs with a controller and HDMI out.I like the realistic approach valve is taking, they know these aren't going to be as big as something like the ps4. This first generation is just going to be a test case to see if the whole idea works or not. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on January 07, 2014, 10:16:17 AM The truth is these "steamboxes" are nothing more than pcs these manufacturers already made (with maybe a tidied up case) with a steam logo attached. That's all the ps4 and xbox one are at this point too. Mid range PCs with a controller and HDMI out.I like the realistic approach valve is taking, they know these aren't going to be as big as something like the ps4. This first generation is just going to be a test case to see if the whole idea works or not. Eh not really. When you buy a XB1/PS4 you know what you are getting, you know it can play any game that is released on it, and you don't have to compare one model to another (and if you do it's by one metric, hard drive space). Furthermore, you are getting a very unified experience. This is a huge reason console gaming has been gaining traction over PC gaming for quite a while. It keeps things very simple to get right into the games. With these you don't know the capabilities, you will constantly have to switch between SteamOS and Windows (because unless you already have a gaming pc in your house most games on steam won't support SteamOS direct), you will have to try and figure out what specs you want vs how much you want to pay, you have to line those specs up and try and configure the game to look the best it can without hurting framerate, etc..... Imo, Valve should have simplified things so that they can get traction. Say you can't call yourself a steambox or use the steam logo unless you are using one of these X configurations (low, medium, high) and clearly define the goals of each box (low is a mainly stream only box, etc...). Let manufactures compete on design, noise, steambox "level", and support. Plus standardizing the different configurations can help reduce the costs as it lowers the number of different components they have to keep on hand and can get better bulk order prices. This isn't unprecedented either with other hardware/software relationships. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: schild on January 07, 2014, 11:30:09 AM Lack of standard platform blows. That whole brochure just made me queasy (now that I finally got it to load). Valve should've taken a lot more control of this shit.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: luckton on January 07, 2014, 11:41:32 AM They very well may in time. Google didn't exactly come out of the gate swinging with the Nexus line when Android was released either. Valve seems to be playing by the same playbook; released the software, let the vendors run a train on it, seems what sticks and what doesn't, and then start establishing benchmarks and standards.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Yegolev on January 07, 2014, 12:47:08 PM Alternately, slap together some PCs in your garage and get on the bandwagon.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Daeven on January 07, 2014, 02:24:46 PM No interest in a steambox. I'll just build it myself.
I'd love to kill windows on my Big TV box and put unbutu on it though. Add a cable card, a big assed SSD and make it my Tivo/Unbutu w/steam widget. Yeah yeah. goddamn neckbearding bastard. But still. As to the box, start doing watercooled custom jobs, add some LED lighting, a Valve sticker and and calle it a Super Deluxe Premium package. What could go wrong? Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on January 07, 2014, 10:55:45 PM That's all the ps4 and xbox one are at this point too. Mid range PCs with a controller and HDMI out. I like the realistic approach valve is taking, they know these aren't going to be as big as something like the ps4. This first generation is just going to be a test case to see if the whole idea works or not. Eh not really. When you buy a XB1/PS4 you know what you are getting, you know it can play any game that is released on it, and you don't have to compare one model to another (and if you do it's by one metric, hard drive space). Furthermore, you are getting a very unified experience. This is a huge reason console gaming has been gaining traction over PC gaming for quite a while. It keeps things very simple to get right into the games. The unification is in the software layer (valves part). Plug them in and they'll all work pretty much the same. The trade off for the lack of a single model is competition, multiple vendors and variety which they'll control, I believe, by having performance tiers. And the same will work for people who roll their own. It would be neater if they could lay out a couple of billion and drive it all themselves, but that's not what valve wants to do, and may not have the size and resources to do. And besides which a bit of creative chaos and faster evolution of hardware will put pressure on keeping a console platform unchanging for 10 years. They won't ship with windows on them and buying a retail windows license blows out the price. It might have a place, along with streaming, as a stop-gap but it's not the long term intention. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Teleku on January 09, 2014, 05:04:32 PM I'm not sure how viable long term this approach is. Maybe it will work, and valve has a ton of talented people, but......
What I had really wished was that Valve would basically just create the first digital console. A console system where you buy and download all your games (well ok, maybe it can have some sort of input if people really want to sell things out of physical stores). To do the same thing for console gaming that they did for PC's, offering an alternate avenue for game developers. Kill the middle man, allow a market place where they can offer lower price purchases for digital only versions of console games, and give a market for the indie community to thrive in the console world. Hell, lets face it, a lot of the indie games coming out are basically throw backs to console platforms, and they really belong on some sort of console instead of the PC. If they could create a robust development platform that wasn't to proprietary, allowing for easy ports of games, more the better. They could still be very free with the hardware specs and let people develop stuff differently (a sort of android approach) instead of having one specific console, but they really need more control over this shit to offer a stable platform. Maybe they'll win out in the end, but for their first swing, I sort of wish they had taken a much more focused approach. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on January 09, 2014, 05:45:48 PM I think people are missing this is an adjunct to steam/PC allowing that eco-system to cross over into living room. It's not a replacement or parallel effort, and valve don't want to become microsoft. That said these are prototype's valve is showing to encourage PC vendors that it's a "real thing" because they have their own inertia. That's probably also why they threw the media event to the manufacturers, they want them investing in the products. I suspect this is pretty much forcing the PC vendors to show their hand in public. In reality several of these are basically just PC's, others are re-badged SFF PC's and only one or two are really possible console replacements. And retail sales will narrow that down quickly too, especially if steam puts "ratings" on them to winnow out the excessively weak ones. I'd say Alien-ware is probably the one to watch here (perhaps one of the others in europe?). Making custom PC's is pretty much what they do, they get the form factor it needs and they have the muscle to compete plus name recognition. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Sky on January 17, 2014, 01:14:04 PM Uber is talking about a steam box on their livestream http://www.twitch.tv/uberentertainment
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on January 17, 2014, 09:12:18 PM Apparently they had some Valve "Dev Days", there's a bunch of info around. The interesting bits being they've rethought the controller. Turns out looking at a display mounted on your controller is a distraction and trying to push buttons in that position is not natural. So it looks like the plan is the two big pressure pads plus two sets of directional buttons for the thumbs. Also they're keen on VR, have a really advanced test lab in house and support libraries, but no plans to get involved in hardware but are instead working with Oculus (but not tied to them). The developer reckons quality domestic VR will be a big thing ~2015, but then developers are natural optimists. Still, sounds like fun. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Quinton on January 17, 2014, 09:27:26 PM I'm still somewhat skeptical of using touch instead of analog sticks, but nowhere near as skeptical as I am of touch being able to replace real mechanical buttons. Higher hopes for their controller being usable in the new configuration.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Azazel on February 13, 2014, 04:53:21 PM I need to update my PC this year, probably. No way in hell I'll buy a Steambox, though. I'll just build my own PC and be able to claim it and do work for work on it as well as post on forums. :oh_i_see:
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on February 14, 2014, 10:53:52 PM Same here. The steambox really isn't aimed at people comfortable with PC's or who need it as a computer. I'm interested in a larger steam user-base bringing more games, I'm interested in the peripherals (controller and oculus). If I had a big TV sitting in a home theatre room and they really manage some economy of scale on the box maybe it would be interesting as a lounge room media center, but I don't have that situation. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: eldaec on March 02, 2014, 03:24:13 AM I'm not so sure, there is a niche of the PC gaming master race who'd happily pay a reasonable amount for something in the living room that is not a console.
How big that group is I have no idea, but without Sony or MS marketing they may be critical to this project not being stillborn. I will probably buy one of these purely out curiosity, but the idea of buying an Xbox doesn't even cross my mind. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Sky on March 02, 2014, 08:19:05 AM I'm not so sure, there is a niche of the PC gaming master race who'd happily pay a reasonable amount for something in the living room that is not a console. If you're a true member of the PC gaming master race, that device is a PC. Since 2003(tm).Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Falconeer on March 05, 2014, 02:31:17 AM Gabe Newell did an "Ask Me Anything" on Reddit (http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/03/05/gabe-newell-did-a-reddit-ama-today/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0).
Nothing really about Half Life 3. Then: Quote The biggest news is that Valve is working on making Steam "a self-publishing system," something Newell hinted at during Steam Dev Days when he announced that Steam Greenlight is going away. Before Greenlight, Valve "got bottle-necked pretty fast on tools and decision making," says Newell. That led to Greenlight, and is now leading the company toward self-publishing. Here's some of the other things that came up: Quote On Ricochet 2 (a supposed sequel to Ricochet that's often jokingly used to refer to Half-Life 3) not being announced: “When we announced our products years in advance in the past and then were really late delivering them, it was pretty painful for both us and the community. We'd rather not repeat that.” On what improvements we’ll see in in Source 2 engine: “The biggest improvements will be in increasing productivity of content creation. That focus is driven by the importance we see UGC [User Generated Content] having going forward. A professional developer at Valve will put up with a lot of pain that won't work if users themselves have to create content.” His vision for Steam in the next ten years: “I'm not trying to dodge the question, but we find it more useful to think in terms of feedback loops than in terms of visions/goals. Iterating with the community means that your near-term objectives change all the time. The key benefit to Steam is to shorten the length of the loop. Longer term, we see that working at the level of individual gamers, where we think of everyone as creating and publishing experience. "How can we make gamers more productive" sounds weird, but is an accurate way to characterize where we're going. It may make more sense if you think of it as "How can we make Dendi more entertaining to more people." On SteamOS and Valve’s core audience: “We see Steam Machines (along with Steam OS and the Steam Controller) as a service update to Steam, porting the experience to a new room in the house. As we've been working on it, we've focused first on the customers who already love Steam and its games. They've told us they're tired of giving up all the stuff they love when they sit in the living room, so it seemed valuable to fix that.” On Valve’s VR being “light years ahead” of the original Oculus Rift dev kit: “I'm not sure I'd agree with that. We are collaborating with them, and want their hardware to be great.” On the future of eSports: “We still think we have a long way to go to get to the point where all of the different people that are contributing value to competitive play get everything out of it that they should. Feels like we are making pretty good progress though. “Giving the consumers of content a direct relationship with the creators of content is something we think about a lot. That is what drove our thinking about how the community could be more involved in the tournaments that mattered to them.” About his collaboration with JJ Abrams: “The main thing is that when we talk with him it's like talking with someone who works at Valve. That's not usually the case with people from the film industry.” About Valve accepting cryptocurrency (Bitcoin): “There are two related issues: one is treating a crypto-currency as another currency type that we support and the broader issue is monetary behaviors of game economies. The first issue is more about crypto-currencies stabilizing as mediums of account.” On why the company is named Valve: “Because it was better than ‘Rhino Scar.’” Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Sky on March 05, 2014, 07:46:48 AM I completely do not give shits about any of that.
Just keep fat pipes for downloading and deep discounts at the semi-annual sales. As long as all the social/maker fucking nonsense doesn't cock that up, feel free to wank it as hard as you want. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: apocrypha on March 07, 2015, 03:21:08 AM ARISE! One year on.
The Steam store now has prices and some specs (http://store.steampowered.com/sale/steam_machines) for the first Steam Machines and the controllers. Prices only in USD for now. Prices are ridiculous, clearly aimed at a handful of early adopters and not intended to be serious competition for the console market. I only ever buy things on Steam at 75% off or more in sales, at which point some of these would become good value. Otherwise this just smacks of "shit, it's been ages, we need to show *something* before we piss off our hardware partners too much". Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on March 07, 2015, 07:29:41 AM Not only that, none of that will be available till November..... Why would you wait? Anyone who needs a new gaming PC isn't going to wait for a steam machine, there's no benefit to it.
I was debating between the $50 Steam Link and the $200 Nvidia Shield Console for my streaming needs, but guess I"m going with NVidia so I don't have to wait an extra six months. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Rendakor on March 07, 2015, 08:33:18 AM Some of those are in the $450-500 range, which doesn't seem too bad compared to the PS4 at $400 and the Xbone at $350. I'm not really sure how much cheaper anyone was expecting them to be.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on March 07, 2015, 03:24:45 PM It's not really about the price alone, but in context. There is literally nothing presented here (with a November date none-the-less) that differentiates these "Steam Machines" from the exact same machines you can buy from these manufacturers today, or build yourself for much much cheaper.
And yes, while building is more complicated you still have to have really good knowledge on wtf each of the parts mean in order to know which of these *15* machines to buy. The benefit that Valve is missing out on is to make a streamlined list that makes it as easy to pick out a steam machine as it is to pick out a console, for a good price. Steam machines as presented here today do none-of-this, so I just don't see the point. Either you know what you need and you'll buy these machines today from the manufacturers, or you don't know what you need and the Steam Machine marketing push does nothing to help. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on March 08, 2015, 05:22:01 PM I agree that they would gain from some sort of "gold, silver, bronze" ranking since the machines are all over the shop and judging value will be challenging. In practice I expect only a couple will get any sort of traction or reputation, with the Alien-ware still looking well-integrated and with a name behind it. But I guess valve doesn't want to be in the commodity hardware business or facing accusations of it being a "closed" environment. They're not for me, but it's the first viable "off the shelf" consolized lounge-room gaming PC I've seen. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Merusk on March 08, 2015, 06:06:07 PM I still fail to see the draw. You're paying as much as any PC, but you're limited to Steam OS and Steam games on the device.
"Oh look, I paid the same for 1/100th the functionality" Woo! Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Malakili on March 08, 2015, 07:23:11 PM People like their couches.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Rendakor on March 08, 2015, 07:45:23 PM I still fail to see the draw. You're paying as much as any PC, but you're limited to Steam OS and Steam games on the device. It's like you've never met a console player."Oh look, I paid the same for 1/100th the functionality" Woo! Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Falconeer on March 09, 2015, 02:47:18 AM I know some people who can't afford a decent gaming PC, but are not interested in console gaming. If they can pay 500-600 $€£ for a PC that will allow them to play most if not all games, they would go for it instead of being forced to get a console which, with the current generation, is already obsolete. Let's not forget that the *promise* here is that at the same price point these machines would perform better gamewise than a traditional 500-600 PC.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Paelos on March 09, 2015, 06:03:29 AM People like their couches. Those people must own shitty computer chairs. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Sky on March 09, 2015, 08:42:57 AM People like their couches. Again. Since 2003.If people liked their couches, they'd be playing their pc games on them instead of being huddled over some desk in the basement or whatever. I don't think you can buy a tv that can't be plugged into a computer these days. Why back in my day we had to work for it! *yells at cloud* Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Merusk on March 09, 2015, 03:38:01 PM Yeah, the "I want to play from my couch" thing is a VERY feeble excuse these days. Vid cards have been able to output HDMI or utilize DVI to HDMI cables for a while. All I have to do is route it to my TV instead of a monitor. Voila.
If dummies want to pay 3-4x the cost of a good rig for a pretty box and someone else to give them cables, I'll judge the hell out of the sheep being fleeced but won't give anything but kudos to those doing it. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on March 09, 2015, 04:44:14 PM The real things allowing PC gamers to push forward are the Steam Link and Nvidia Shield console. Those are really the "PC Gamers want to play games on their tv" announcements from the past few days, as most people either have their Gaming pc at a desk or attached to their TV permanently, rarely both because it's a bit of a pain to constantly switch unless everything is literally in one room.
Steam Link has the advantage of being $50 for a stream receiver which is ridiculously low compared to any HTPC you can buy or build that's capable of 1080p game streaming + input. NVidia Shield Console is $200 (same price as most HTPCs I've specced out or looked at) that can support 4k streaming at 60FPS. Other than those, the other steam machines really have nothing to do with "I want to play from my couch". Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Teleku on March 10, 2015, 05:37:40 AM Yeah, the "I want to play from my couch" thing is a VERY feeble excuse these days. Vid cards have been able to output HDMI or utilize DVI to HDMI cables for a while. All I have to do is route it to my TV instead of a monitor. Voila. If dummies want to pay 3-4x the cost of a good rig for a pretty box and someone else to give them cables, I'll judge the hell out of the sheep being fleeced but won't give anything but kudos to those doing it. $400-$500 is about a third the cost of my gaming rig. Its really not a bad deal, especially if it gets some traction. A lot of smaller developers are already making their games with controllers in mind. Once you have a customer base setup, Steam should be able to do to consoles what it did for PC gaming, and open up the market to small/indie developers, while being able to offer a shit ton of games at a fraction of what the console makers charge for their disked version. All relies on if it can get traction, but if so, paying that much for one of these is not getting any more fleeced than paying for a PS4. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Merusk on March 10, 2015, 07:27:12 AM There is ONE machine at that price point so calling it a 400-500 range is generous at best. It's more like $500-$600 for the low-end of the platform, up to the price of a ultra PC at the high end, only crippled as a device. You can do what you're doing right now on a PC, you can't on the steambox.
This wasn't meant to be 'another console' but a 'standardized pc platform.' If it's becoming another console, fine. Then I'll treat it as such and rip it apart for the $4k box. And yes, people were getting fleeced for PS4 and XBones, too. Unnecessary consoles that have anemic libraries one year in. Woo! Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Malakili on March 10, 2015, 07:42:10 AM I hate playing on a couch and I suck with controllers, so this doesn't interest me. But I can understand why someone would want one. It also means you can sit in a more communal area of the house instead of being holed up in your office, which some people prefer. To me it's just another piece of hardware I don't want to buy. No lack of those around.
At least Sky realized he is yelling at clouds by getting upset about these things. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Sky on March 10, 2015, 08:18:54 AM I'm not upset about it at all. Just curious that more people haven't embraced pc gaming in the living room, especially now that it's trivial to set up and modern games support it (neither was the case 12 years ago).
Though my eyes do roll to the back of my head when people do the couch=console nonsense. That's a choice, not an absolute. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Malakili on March 10, 2015, 08:27:28 AM I'm not upset about it at all. Just curious that more people haven't embraced pc gaming in the living room, especially now that it's trivial to set up and modern games support it (neither was the case 12 years ago). Though my eyes do roll to the back of my head when people do the couch=console nonsense. That's a choice, not an absolute. Most people think of the computer as the thing in the office and the console as the thing in the living room. That's a cultural thing at this point and it's going to take more than just the possibility of hooking up a PC to a TV to shift it - say something like a steam machine that blends the two. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: HaemishM on March 10, 2015, 09:49:08 AM Really the big hindrance to PC gaming on the couch really is the mouse/keyboard interface - using one of those on the couch requires a specialized set up compared to a console controller. The OS and Steam Controller are really the crux of this whole Steam machines thing - after all, you could build your own Steam Machine from off the shelf parts if you want, and just grab the SteamOS and install that flavor of Linux (at least I think the SteamOS is free).
The Steam Machines just make sure you pay a premium for someone else to do that hard work for you. I'm intrigued, mainly by the controller - just not intrigued enough to want to spend what would be the budget for my next gaming PC on it. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Sky on March 10, 2015, 01:19:21 PM Most people think of the computer as the thing in the office and the console as the thing in the living room. Most people are fucking morons. We're not talking about them.Haemmy, the keyb/m is not really all that difficult. I switched to a wired mouse a couple years ago (plugged into a USB hub under my coffee table, which is also handy for my card reader) because I got tired of spotty RF, but the RF keyboard has been great. Anyway, it's not like I haven't said this enough to get a greif tittle out of it. Also, lol controller gaming fps, mmo, tbs, rts, etclol Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on March 10, 2015, 05:25:32 PM I do think the stream controller has potential to make controller gaming be more viable for kb+M games. Even if it can't 100% compete as long as it works well than I'll be all for it
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Trippy on March 10, 2015, 05:36:10 PM Some of those are in the $450-500 range, which doesn't seem too bad compared to the PS4 at $400 and the Xbone at $350. I'm not really sure how much cheaper anyone was expecting them to be. The Windows version of the Alienware Alpha is just $20 more* compared to the SteamOS version. If are going to be running on a gimped platform with a fraction of the game support of Windows there needs to be a compelling reason to switch, and saving $20 is not a compelling reason.* Not including the price difference between the Xbox controller and the Steam controller, presumably the Steam controller is more expensive to buy separately Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Teleku on March 11, 2015, 02:42:45 AM Most people think of the computer as the thing in the office and the console as the thing in the living room. Most people are fucking morons. We're not talking about them.Haemmy, the keyb/m is not really all that difficult. I switched to a wired mouse a couple years ago (plugged into a USB hub under my coffee table, which is also handy for my card reader) because I got tired of spotty RF, but the RF keyboard has been great. Anyway, it's not like I haven't said this enough to get a greif tittle out of it. Also, lol controller gaming fps, mmo, tbs, rts, etclol Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on March 11, 2015, 06:24:31 AM Personally, right now my desktop is a giant gaming + media box that's sitting next to my entertainment center. I use my laptop for all web browsing and coding work.
I want to move the desktop out into my office, but in order to still play games on my TV when I want I need to hard wire my house and get a good game stream receiver mini-pc. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on March 11, 2015, 06:31:52 AM PC gaming in the living room has never managed to exceed niche status. There are lots of things a media-PC can do but they're still in the league of home-brew solutions. The market here is people who want to do no more than buy a box made by brand name Y from retailer X and plug it in when they get home.
Most of the steam-boxes on the site are from these sort of niche providers with no economy of scale or ability to do customised hardware solutions. They might get some "must have the best" buyers but the action, if any, will be at a lower price point and from the bigger manufacturers. The Asus and Alienware machines looking like the only serious contenders (the Gigabyte brix is a re-badged NUC). And even they will have trouble getting any sort of volume initially. If you own a real PC or a media-PC none of these are interesting, other than perhaps fringe benefits from widening the pool of PC gamers. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on March 11, 2015, 06:35:29 AM Some of those are in the $450-500 range, which doesn't seem too bad compared to the PS4 at $400 and the Xbone at $350. I'm not really sure how much cheaper anyone was expecting them to be. The Windows version of the Alienware Alpha is just $20 more* compared to the SteamOS version. If are going to be running on a gimped platform with a fraction of the game support of Windows there needs to be a compelling reason to switch, and saving $20 is not a compelling reason.* Not including the price difference between the Xbox controller and the Steam controller, presumably the Steam controller is more expensive to buy separately It's about having control of the platform. If it's dependent on microsoft they can drop "teaser" rates like 20$ any-time they choose to, make a new platform (e.g. windows 10) that doesn't support, and they have incentive to do so given they own both a dominant console and the desktop. Of course the "hardware support" is a non-issue for a standardised "appliance" systems. Just as the PS4 and XBone haven't suffered from not running windows. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Sky on March 11, 2015, 08:43:02 AM Wait, how do you do PC gaming in the living room? Do you actually have the PC itself near the TV? I'd thought you'd either be streaming it to the TV or running a cord from the office. You don't actually try to do all your typing/non-gaming work on the couch do you? Yup, a mostly silent obelisk sits in my 'equipment rack' (table with a shelf). A cable runner goes under the area rug to the coffee table, where I've velcro'd the usb hub to the underside. Was a bit noisy when I had my second 460 in SLI, but finally upgraded to a single 970 and it's quiet again.And yes, it's my only pc and I do my non-gaming stuff on it. The old 61" 720p set was really easy to read, when I moved to a 65" 1080p set it was a bit tougher so I upgraded to the current 73" 1080p set and it's fine. I'd rather type on my logitech rf keyboard than a laptop (or tablet, ecch). The whole thing is much less obtrusive than my guitar setup, which is a chair + footrest, music stand w/ light, small table for recording gear, and two mic stands (a dynamic and a ribbon). I also keep an electric footboard effects thingy tucked under the sofa for playing electric into headphones. But I believe a house should be lived in and reflect the residents; not be some picture from a magazine. And my old lady is pretty cool. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Malakili on March 11, 2015, 09:15:13 AM Most people are fucking morons. We're not talking about them. I think we are talking about them. Like Kageru said, the market is people who want to buy a thing, plug it into their TV and go. The market is not the people who are willing to run cables under their area rugs to a USB hub under the coffee table. I have no problem with your setup, it sounds fine. But you can't really expect that your setup in any way reflects the kind of thing people are doing in their living rooms. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Teleku on March 12, 2015, 06:51:10 AM Yeah, I need my computer on a desk in an office to do work and activities not related to gaming. Trying to do anything other than 'game' on the couch is a total non-starter.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Merusk on March 12, 2015, 07:56:17 AM Ah so it's just another console then. Carry on. :awesome_for_real:
Having an opinion that's contrary to the love doesn't mean you care or are upset. It means you're bored, on a website and have an opinion. Woo. Don't get so butthurt. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Falconeer on March 12, 2015, 08:15:25 AM I can play lots of things while sitting on a couch or, in my case, lying in bed. But when it comes to PvP, a big TV set & couch wouldn't work. It's an activity that requires a certain posture for me, I have to be at a desk and sitting straight. I won't go as far as saying that a specific kind of chair is required (I really don't think it is and gaming chairs make me laugh a bit) but sitting straight on a stable surface that is at the right height in front of me and having a monitor of a certain moderate size instead of a huge screen is mandatory.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on March 14, 2015, 03:39:50 PM Ah so it's just another console then. Carry on. :awesome_for_real: Yep, but it's the first ever "open platform" console. I think the real target is as much the practice of exclusive titles on proprietary platforms splitting the gaming community. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on October 15, 2015, 02:28:47 PM Ars Technica has a review of Steam Link, Alienware Alpha, and the Steam Controller (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/10/steams-living-room-hardware-blitz-gets-off-to-a-muddy-start/).
Spoiler is Steam link seems very spotty right now (glad I got a Shield for streaming instead from what I'm hearing), steam OS is extremely meh (just install windows), Alienware's Steambox is pretty good value, and the steam controller has a huge learning curve and doesn't seem to excel at anything but works ok for FPS and turn based mouse games but the controller is inferior for actual controller games and for fast paced mouse games (like torchlight). The mind boggling thing from that review (and I saw in another place) is that the controller doesn't work with game launchers. For games like X-Com you still have to hook a mouse up just to launch the game even though the controller has the capability of emulating a mouse. Not really sure the deal with that but I've read it from multiple sources. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Falconeer on October 15, 2015, 03:46:24 PM I never had any faith in the Steam controller and I have to say that yet I am surprised: surprised that they went ahead with this crappy gimmick. I am also a bit shocked at the blunder you mention about having to hook up a mouse. That's not my job so I don't understand the complexity that lies behind the issue, but I can't help asking myself: "how can you not find a damn way to fix that before presenting this to any kind of public exposure?" Bad word of mouth doesn't take long to travel.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on October 16, 2015, 07:09:15 AM X-Com is labelled on steam as having "partial controller" support, so I would imagine it's not specific to the steam controller or really something that Valve are going to be able to fix themselves. The real problem will be getting any sort of economy of scale. There's pretty well established competition on both the PC and console side and I can't see Valve having the cash or reputation to make a big splash. The people who most like steam probably already have a PC, and console gamers are pretty invested in their platforms. I guess some PC gamers might want a "living room PC" but I wonder how many. I'd assume the lack of scale and competition is also why Alienware don't feel tempted to compete too hard.. most of the other steam machine vendors don't really have a retail solution, they're just small boutique PC makers. If they could get enough margin you might get some competition, economy of scale and the kinks worked out in the games library.. and if the current console generation tried to keep their current hardware profile for as long as the previous one that would allow them an increasing performance per dollar advantage. But I tend to think apathy and inertia will prevail. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: KallDrexx on October 16, 2015, 08:19:39 AM Valve can definitely fix it themselves. When I stream X-Com to my Nvidia Shield TV it gives me two options (original or x-pac) and it auto-clicks in the launcher to the one I want to create, thus making me not need a physical mouse plugged in. Nvidia has actually done fixes like this in many games using an auto-hotkey type of system when it detects the launcher, and it works pretty flawlessly.
The fact that their gamepad has a specific mode to emulate a trackball mouse means they could solve it for all games by doing what Nvidia has done, or by just emulating a mouse like they advertised. The problem they are probably having is that it's loading X-Com in xbox-style gamepad mode instead of trackball mouse mode when in reality you need to be able to switch modes. They could have easily handled that by having a toggle switch somewhere on the back so users can switch between two modes (have a primary and secondary). Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Kageru on October 16, 2015, 11:35:53 PM The shield and steam forums have some people complaining about controller support on the game. The best fix would be patching it to actually have controller support that works but they also seem to have some work arounds. It will only be a real issue if it's endemic. Same for games that theoretically run on the machines but are actually too intense in performance requirements to run well. Was browsing youtube and saw a review of a Zotac EN970 (http://"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssD1ALBZEZk") which looked in steam machine territory and indeed it is as the SN970. Still seems pretty expensive to me which is going to limit / slow adoption. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: MrHat on February 25, 2016, 08:52:11 AM Anyone have more recent experience with Steam Link?
I've got a few story games I want to play with the fam/friends and @ $50 it pays for itself by buying those games on Steam vs. PSN, just don't want to run a 100ft ethernet cable. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Yegolev on February 25, 2016, 01:50:08 PM If Steam Link is the thing where you share games on your LAN, it works great for me as long as I'm not trying to stream from my PC to my Mac.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: eldaec on January 13, 2017, 10:17:44 AM I picked up a steam link and controller in the sales.
Fwiw... - The link is great. To my old person eyes it runs with zero lag over wifi despite the warnings that I should really use wired LAN. Only complaint is that sometimes it fails to detect my PC and wake on LAN just doesn't work - but rebooting seems to fix this. Playing Hitman with it at the moment. - The controller I've been pleasantly surprised by. I've never owned a console but have used track pads a lot on laptops, which might be part of why I like it, but seems more natural to do things like aiming and camera control with a pad than a thumb stick. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Lucas on January 13, 2017, 01:14:36 PM Regarding the Steam Link: I realize that it's mainly a tool when you are in a "comfy" mood (at least compared to the usual chair + desk setup). But, let's say I'm ready to play Witcher 3: when it comes to visual quality and fps, would I get the same experience on my regular 42" LCD TV screen compared to my 2560x1440 monitor?
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Sky on January 13, 2017, 01:25:16 PM Witcher 3 on the big screen with a game pad is amazing.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: eldaec on January 13, 2017, 06:38:15 PM Regarding the Steam Link: I realize that it's mainly a tool when you are in a "comfy" mood (at least compared to the usual chair + desk setup). But, let's say I'm ready to play Witcher 3: when it comes to visual quality and fps, would I get the same experience on my regular 42" LCD TV screen compared to my 2560x1440 monitor? The steam link will push out the same source images and fps as the host PC. Obviously relative quality of your tv and monitor has an impact. But I'm finding AAA titles generally feel better on my 50" plasma backed up by my living room sound system, than on my PC monitor. It's likely your monitor has higher resolution than your TV - but size of screen and distance from it will probably make it more cinematic on the TV, just as high definition doesn't necessarily make a film better to watch. Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: eldaec on January 13, 2017, 08:27:47 PM Turns out the bit about fps isn't quite true. Steam link is capped at 60fps.
Title: Re: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] Post by: Lucas on January 14, 2017, 02:21:20 PM Thanks :) . Yeah, I imagine it would also depend on the overall quality of the TV and the related colour calibrations you can adjust. Regarding FPS, in the particular case of TW3, I wouldn't mind because, no matter the fact I have a 144hz G-Sync, I limit the frames to 60 for CD Projekt's title.
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