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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Steam  |  Topic: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller] 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Steam Announcements 2013 Edition [1. SteamOS, 2. Steam Machines , 3. Controller]  (Read 37490 times)
Trippy
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Reply #105 on: October 11, 2013, 05:45:35 PM

Oh god it's like the worst of both worlds. LOL console shooter controls plus mousing on a teeny tiny surface so you have to constantly "lift" the mouse.
MrHat
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Reply #106 on: October 11, 2013, 05:50:53 PM

Ya, I noticed that too.

I wonder if they tried just a sensitive track ball.

It looked really awkward to use.  I did like the blended movement at the end though.
K9
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Reply #107 on: October 12, 2013, 04:52:30 AM

It's basically like playing with a trackpad as I see it; which is doable, but neither the most comfortable nor optimal thing.

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KallDrexx
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Reply #108 on: October 12, 2013, 02:45:23 PM

It's basically like playing with a trackpad as I see it; which is doable, but neither the most comfortable nor optimal thing.

Except that playing with a trackpad is completely different due to orgonomics.  You interact with a touchpad by having your whole hand vertically above the trackpad while this you have your thumb resting on the pad area (which should make it much quicker and comfortable to swipe).

Honestly, while this isn't going to be a 100% replacement for everyone, I think this could make it enjoyable to play games without dragging my mouse and keyboard to my couch.
KallDrexx
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Reply #109 on: December 11, 2013, 03:43:46 PM

Steambox and controller prototype testers will be emailed within the next hour (2pm Pacific)

SteamOS will also be released for people to play with, although they say if you aren't a linux hacker you should stay away until later in 2014.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse#announcements/detail/1930088300965516570
schild
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Reply #110 on: December 11, 2013, 06:49:12 PM

I am so not going to be one of the people getting one of these :(
luckton
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Reply #111 on: December 12, 2013, 01:18:55 AM

I am so not going to be one of the people getting one of these :(

Same, but it'll be nice to at least get the SteamOS out in the open.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
KallDrexx
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Reply #112 on: December 12, 2013, 09:27:07 AM

I just want to try out the controller.

I also wonder if the windows steam client will have any code built in to receive steam streams.  It would still be good to be able to stream steam games from windows -> windows.
schpain
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Reply #113 on: December 12, 2013, 08:50:52 PM

stop saying steam stream, it makes me want to hurl.

*Should be working*
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Reply #114 on: December 13, 2013, 09:57:46 AM

I just want to try out the controller.

Let me know if it feels like a boob.

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Reply #115 on: December 13, 2013, 10:11:44 AM

The only reason I wanted one of these was to install Windows on it and not have to buy a new computer.

Does anyone actually care about what they're doing with this shit? Because I certainly don't.
Signe
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Reply #116 on: December 13, 2013, 11:24:23 AM

I enjoyed some of the "Direct the US Only rage here" thread.

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Kageru
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Reply #117 on: December 15, 2013, 01:07:19 AM

Does anyone actually care about what they're doing with this shit? Because I certainly don't.

I do, a non-proprietary platform for the living room sounds good and it being Steam extends the market for PC games.

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schild
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Reply #118 on: December 15, 2013, 04:00:50 AM

Does anyone actually care about what they're doing with this shit? Because I certainly don't.

I do, a non-proprietary platform for the living room sounds good and it being Steam extends the market for PC games.
I was talking about people on this forum.

We all know how to build/buy a computer and shove it behind a TV. I don't see the Steambox doing anything better other than possibly being subsidized in some capacity if it comes from Valve.

Really, a whole shitload of people just wanted a free computer with a Titan inside. 300 got them.
Quinton
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Reply #119 on: December 15, 2013, 04:13:09 AM

The hardware beta is uninteresting -- but given how many people certainly applied, how few units they were handing out, and the fact that I had a gaming machine in the living room already it didn't make much difference either way, really.

The interesting stuff about steambox/steamos to me is:

- seeing the living room console space disrupted by somebody not tied to locked-down drm-ified systems

- the likelyhood that this will encourage PC OEMs to build PCs in what I feel is a more useful formfactor -- I don't need 8 drive bays or an enormous tower or whatnot -- just want a reasonable smallish box I can swap around the mainboard/powersupply/gpu/drives in

- the possibility that longer term windows will not be necessary for gaming -- I'd love to never have to upgrade to win8
Kageru
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Reply #120 on: December 16, 2013, 08:48:27 AM


The more PC gamers the more PC games. I don't need to own a steam-box to benefit from it (though the controller is interesting).

I don't see any better chance for the PC to compete in the living room, in the mass-market or to the tablet generation who might not ever own a PC. In that space microsoft is a competitor (via xbox and surface) so there's no chance of them doing anything useful, and the hardware vendors lack direction and software.


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Baldrake
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Reply #121 on: December 16, 2013, 01:38:08 PM

I have no doubt they will get there, but Valve has a long way to go. I've been using Big Picture quite a bit lately, and it's amazing how often you still have to fall back to using the mouse and keyboard.
Kageru
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Reply #122 on: January 06, 2014, 08:37:12 PM

They know that, it's why the controller is designed to be able to handle a KB+M game.

Apparently they're showing off third-party steam-boxes at CES... there's lots of pictures on most of the gaming sites. Gigabyte and Alienware would be the big names, many of them I don't really recognise. Aiming for retail second half of 2014.

There's a brochure but it's getting hammered. And it's pretty obvious some of the vendors either don't get it, like Falcon Northwest's 2K "It's just a PC", or just assume some people will pay any price to own the biggest numbers on their steambox.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 08:39:34 PM by Kageru »

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Reply #123 on: January 06, 2014, 08:47:16 PM

I believe Valve is making a mistake by not partnering with someone and offering a heavily subsidized box ~$300-$400 tops for the first generation of them. You CAN buy your way into the living room. They're just not doing that.
Kageru
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Reply #124 on: January 06, 2014, 09:00:19 PM


Depends on how you see the goal. If they wanted to get into the hardware business and own a proprietary platform that would be the right move. Though I'm not sure they can afford to go up against MS. But I think they're more interested in keeping the PC platform open and vibrant which means they need to provide a growth strategy, something that the PC hardware vendors and microsoft are incapable or uninterested in doing.

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Goreschach
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Reply #125 on: January 06, 2014, 10:00:32 PM


Depends on how you see the goal. If they wanted to get into the hardware business and own a proprietary platform that would be the right move. Though I'm not sure they can afford to go up against MS. But I think they're more interested in keeping the PC platform open and vibrant which means they need to provide a growth strategy, something that the PC hardware vendors and microsoft are incapable or uninterested in doing.


Microsoft and Sony can subsidize their consoles because they have the consoles locked down and receive licensing fees from developers. Sure, technically you can(or at least eventually will be able to) jailbreak them and install linux on them, but that is a very niche thing.

The steamboxes, however, are just generic pc's. There is really no way Valve could get away with selling a moderately powerful generic pc at a subsidy, because tons of people would buy them even if they didn't care about steam or pc games in general.
luckton
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Reply #126 on: January 07, 2014, 06:08:29 AM

I think the vendors "get it" in that SteamOS is their ticket to having their brand in the living room.  Believe it or not, but there are gaming enthusiasts out there, even PC variants, that don't know and/or don't give a shit about hardware, the inner workings, and how it all goes/comes together.  They just like to game, and they game hard.  Those same people can be fiercely loyal to certain brands, almost always buying an Alienware or Doghouse system whenever it's time for an upgrade.

SteamOS presents the vendors with the chance of playing on the same field as the Big Three console vendors; a chance to get into the living room/bedroom in a way that neither Microsoft nor Apple ever gave them with their OS offerings.  We're seeing the same pioneering of a new thing that you see with any new thing; everyone tries to get their dog in the fight and see what sticks and who's left standing at the end.  Some will succeed and do very well, others won't.  Or, as my Lib. lab rat would say, "CAPITALISM, BITCH!"

As far as Valve is concerned, their money depends on people getting purchases off of Steam.  The more people that are exposed to the Steam Store, the more potential profit there is.  So why "not" let every hardware vendor that wants to fly the Steam logo do what they want?  I for one would be glad to see the PC section of GameStop start to take back more of the store's footprint aside from the one side of one standing shelf in the dusty corner of the store.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 06:21:20 AM by luckton »

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
KallDrexx
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Reply #127 on: January 07, 2014, 07:44:04 AM

ArsTechnica has an article up with the prices of the steam boxes.  I think they are way too expensive to make any real inroads.  Sure they aren't over priced as far as gaming pcs are concerned, but if you wanted a gaming pc you either already have one or already started saving up money for one and planned to get one.  The price of these doesn't really change the equation at all.

*edit*
More to the point it shows that not one person who is involved with the steambox production (valve nor these manufacturers) understand why console gaming is so big right now.  There's no clear strategy to the hardware, there's no clear way to know which one is better than another, there's no way to know what you can do with one that you can't do with the other.  Everything is absolutely confusing for anyone not already up to date on PC gaming hardware (and if you are you probably already have a gaming pc box and have no reason to buy one of these). 

The truth is these "steamboxes" are nothing more than pcs these manufacturers already made (with maybe a tidied up case) with a steam logo attached. 

It makes me annoyed because there is so much potential here, but if you are trying to convince someone that wants to either buy a $200 360 or $500 XB1/PS4 that they should get a steambox instead, they've totally blown it.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 07:57:00 AM by KallDrexx »
luckton
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Reply #128 on: January 07, 2014, 08:10:02 AM

For shits and giggles, I dare you to build the CyperPowerPC build for less.  Their price also includes the fancy haptic controller.  Go ahead, I'll wait.

 Popcorn

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
KallDrexx
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Reply #129 on: January 07, 2014, 08:15:07 AM

For shits and giggles, I dare you to build the CyperPowerPC build for less.  Their price also includes the fancy haptic controller.  Go ahead, I'll wait.

 Popcorn

You mean that one that says $499 *and up*?  Meaning we don't really know what you get at the $499 level.
luckton
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Reply #130 on: January 07, 2014, 08:35:22 AM

Actually, we do know...

http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/06/cyberpowerpc-steam-machines/

Quote
The cheaper Steam Machine A is packing a 3.9GHz A6 CPU from AMD as well as a 2GB Radeon R9 270 graphics card. It's hardly a barn burner, but it should be more than enough to get you through most modern games. The Steam Machine I, on the other hand, boasts a 3.5GHz Core i3 and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 graphics, as well as 802.11ac WiFi. Though, that configuration pushes the starting price up to $699.

And here the real kicker:

Quote
Of course, being a veteran of the gaming PC industry, CyberPower is allowing customers to customize pretty much every facet of the machine. So, who knows what the price will top out at?

As you said, we're getting a PC.  So as a vendor, why not allow the people the ability to customize the parts like we can do now and have done for a long time?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Miasma
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Reply #131 on: January 07, 2014, 09:08:44 AM

The truth is these "steamboxes" are nothing more than pcs these manufacturers already made (with maybe a tidied up case) with a steam logo attached. 
That's all the ps4 and xbox one are at this point too.  Mid range PCs with a controller and HDMI out.

I like the realistic approach valve is taking, they know these aren't going to be as big as something like the ps4.  This first generation is just going to be a test case to see if the whole idea works or not.
KallDrexx
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Reply #132 on: January 07, 2014, 12:16:17 PM

The truth is these "steamboxes" are nothing more than pcs these manufacturers already made (with maybe a tidied up case) with a steam logo attached. 
That's all the ps4 and xbox one are at this point too.  Mid range PCs with a controller and HDMI out.

I like the realistic approach valve is taking, they know these aren't going to be as big as something like the ps4.  This first generation is just going to be a test case to see if the whole idea works or not.

Eh not really.  When you buy a XB1/PS4 you know what you are getting, you know it can play any game that is released on it, and you don't have to compare one model to another (and if you do it's by one metric, hard drive space).  Furthermore, you are getting a very unified experience.  This is a huge reason console gaming has been gaining traction over PC gaming for quite a while.  It keeps things very simple to get right into the games.

With these you don't know the capabilities, you will constantly have to switch between SteamOS and Windows (because unless you already have a gaming pc in your house most games on steam won't support SteamOS direct), you will have to try and figure out what specs you want vs how much you want to pay, you have to line those specs up and try and configure the game to look the best it can without hurting framerate, etc.....

Imo, Valve should have simplified things so that they can get traction.  Say you can't call yourself a steambox or use the steam logo unless you are using one of these X configurations (low, medium, high) and clearly define the goals of each box (low is a mainly stream only box, etc...).  Let manufactures compete on design, noise, steambox "level", and support.  Plus standardizing the different configurations can help reduce the costs as it lowers the number of different components they have to keep on hand and can get better bulk order prices.  This isn't unprecedented either with other hardware/software relationships. 
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Reply #133 on: January 07, 2014, 01:30:09 PM

Lack of standard platform blows. That whole brochure just made me queasy (now that I finally got it to load). Valve should've taken a lot more control of this shit.
luckton
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Reply #134 on: January 07, 2014, 01:41:32 PM

They very well may in time.  Google didn't exactly come out of the gate swinging with the Nexus line when Android was released either.  Valve seems to be playing by the same playbook; released the software, let the vendors run a train on it, seems what sticks and what doesn't, and then start establishing benchmarks and standards.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Yegolev
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Reply #135 on: January 07, 2014, 02:47:08 PM

Alternately, slap together some PCs in your garage and get on the bandwagon.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Daeven
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Reply #136 on: January 07, 2014, 04:24:46 PM

No interest in a steambox. I'll just build it myself.

I'd love to kill windows on my Big TV box and put unbutu on it though. Add a cable card, a big assed SSD and make it my Tivo/Unbutu w/steam widget.

Yeah yeah. goddamn  neckbearding bastard. But still.


As to the box, start doing watercooled custom jobs, add some LED lighting, a Valve sticker and and calle it a Super Deluxe Premium package.

What could go wrong?

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Kageru
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Reply #137 on: January 08, 2014, 12:55:45 AM

That's all the ps4 and xbox one are at this point too.  Mid range PCs with a controller and HDMI out.

I like the realistic approach valve is taking, they know these aren't going to be as big as something like the ps4.  This first generation is just going to be a test case to see if the whole idea works or not.

Eh not really.  When you buy a XB1/PS4 you know what you are getting, you know it can play any game that is released on it, and you don't have to compare one model to another (and if you do it's by one metric, hard drive space).  Furthermore, you are getting a very unified experience.  This is a huge reason console gaming has been gaining traction over PC gaming for quite a while.  It keeps things very simple to get right into the games.

The unification is in the software layer (valves part). Plug them in and they'll all work pretty much the same. The trade off for the lack of a single model is competition, multiple vendors and variety which they'll control, I believe, by having performance tiers. And the same will work for people who roll their own. It would be neater if they could lay out a couple of billion and drive it all themselves, but that's not what valve wants to do, and may not have the size and resources to do. And besides which a bit of creative chaos and faster evolution of hardware will put pressure on keeping a console platform unchanging for 10 years.

They won't ship with windows on them and buying a retail windows license blows out the price. It might have a place, along with streaming, as a stop-gap but it's not the long term intention.

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Reply #138 on: January 09, 2014, 07:04:32 PM

I'm not sure how viable long term this approach is.  Maybe it will work, and valve has a ton of talented people, but......

What I had really wished was that Valve would basically just create the first digital console.  A console system where you buy and download all your games (well ok, maybe it can have some sort of input if people really want to sell things out of physical stores).  To do the same thing for console gaming that they did for PC's, offering an alternate avenue for game developers.  Kill the middle man, allow a market place where they can offer lower price purchases for digital only versions of console games, and give a market for the indie community to thrive in the console world.  Hell, lets face it, a lot of the indie games coming out are basically throw backs to console platforms, and they really belong on some sort of console instead of the PC.  If they could create a robust development platform that wasn't to proprietary, allowing for easy ports of games, more the better.

They could still be very free with the hardware specs and let people develop stuff differently (a sort of android approach) instead of having one specific console, but they really need more control over this shit to offer a stable platform.  Maybe they'll win out in the end, but for their first swing, I sort of wish they had taken a much more focused approach.

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Kageru
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Reply #139 on: January 09, 2014, 07:45:48 PM


I think people are missing this is an adjunct to steam/PC allowing that eco-system to cross over into living room. It's not a replacement or parallel effort, and valve don't want to become microsoft.

That said these are prototype's valve is showing to encourage PC vendors that it's a "real thing" because they have their own inertia. That's probably also why they threw the media event to the manufacturers, they want them investing in the products. I suspect this is pretty much forcing the PC vendors to show their hand in public.

In reality several of these are basically just PC's, others are re-badged SFF PC's and only one or two are really possible console replacements. And retail sales will narrow that down quickly too, especially if steam puts "ratings" on them to winnow out the excessively weak ones. I'd say Alien-ware is probably the one to watch here (perhaps one of the others in europe?). Making custom PC's is pretty much what they do, they get the form factor it needs and they have the muscle to compete plus name recognition.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
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