Magic: The Combattening - Hearthstone

[Lakov_Sanite]

Having been playing a metric fuckton of arena lately I think one of the major problems is that since certain cards are weighted more heavily to appear you will always have some classes being better at deckbuilding.  The problem being you don't get to pick you class either so if you roll three bad classes as your choices well, tough titties.

[Rokal]

I don't think there are any classes which are legitimately bad in arena.

[MrHat]

I don't think there are any classes which are legitimately bad in arena.

I do feel like Priest and Warlock benefit a TON from premade and the opposite of that is the arena.

[Rokal]

Rogue was the class that I felt suffered the most in arena, as it can be hard to pull off the good rogue combo cards without A) drafting the actual combo cards and B) low-cost cards to combo off of that don't suck. That said, they're ranked as one of the "best" arena classes so who knows. I got destroyed by a rogue arena deck recently that started with Defias Ringleader using The Coin, netting them a 2/2 and a 2/1 on the first turn. Their momentum only picked up from there but it seemed like a really lucky deck to have built & hand to have started with.

Warlocks work well in arena imo: most of their class cards are removal or decent creature cards. Priests definitely work better in a constructed setting since it can be hard to stay alive long enough to really abuse your class power, or draft the creatures that will benefit from it, but they have lots of excellent/simple removal spells that make them a good fit for arena too.

There aren't any classes that I'm given in arena and instantly think to myself "well shit, guess this is going to be a bad run".

[MrHat]

Its stupid that the Coin counts as a spell/played card, for that very reason.

Also boosts a couple dudes that get bonuses from cards played.

[Ingmar]

Coin/Ringleader actually used to be worse, if you can believe it.

They really shouldn't count the coin as a spell, though.

[schild]

Or maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe they should've designed a game where going 2nd didn't absolutely suck giant dick through a straw.

[MrHat]

Or maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe they should've designed a game where going 2nd didn't absolutely suck giant dick through a straw.

What's the remedy though? Is it because of the way they have the mana working? I honestly have no prior experience to these types of card games.

[schild]

Or maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe they should've designed a game where going 2nd didn't absolutely suck giant dick through a straw.

What's the remedy though? Is it because of the way they have the mana working? I honestly have no prior experience to these types of card games.

There really isn't a great remedy. The giant elephant in the room is that the game doesn't have instants. Or phases really. Not to mention it doesn't even have matches. Oh, and decks don't need land and the mana curve is perfect, always, and forever. So if you go second, well, enjoy it not mattering if you lose since you're not playing a best two of three where you'll go first the next game.

I feel a little bad for shitting on this game so often, but it's kinda a "sorry not sorry" situation. If I design a card game, it's certainly not going to be the shell of a single phase.

[trias_e]

The winrate difference between going first and second is 2%, so their system isn't that unbalanced.  The coin works as is quite well.  It definitely used to bother me that some decks/classes benefit from the coin much more, but I don't really mind it now.  It does add flavor to the game to have decks that want to go first, and decks that want to go second.

[Hoax]

That's not flavor when you can't choose to go first or second its picked for you by a coin flip RNG. I have no idea why the winner can't pick for themselves beyond that seems to be the design goal of Hearthstone. Almost no options.

[MrHat]

Playing some more it seems that Arena should determine your 90 choices first. Then present them in nine rounds of 10 by curve or whatever arithmetic they use to determine rarity/mana cost of choices.  Let you choose 3 at a time.

Or all 90 at once and have a restriction based on rarity or some shit.

My last three goes have had no board clears and no legendaries.  I'm getting smashed here.

[Rasix]

I just drew Ysera in arena.     I didn't even think you could get Legendary cards in arena.  That seems like a mistake.

[MrHat]

I just drew Ysera in arena.     I didn't even think you could get Legendary cards in arena.  That seems like a mistake.

You can get multiples.  Its nuts when it happens.

[Bungee]

I just drew Ysera in arena.     I didn't even think you could get Legendary cards in arena.  That seems like a mistake.

You can get multiples.  Its nuts when it happens.

Yeah, just lost to Pagel (of course drawing cards every turn until I finally got it...) and Ysera.

[Job601]

One of the nice things about Arena is that you're much more likely to get to play with Legendaries there than in constructed.  I'd say you get one every four or five drafts.

[Paelos]

It's been 10 days. I'm still enjoying this and playing it every day. The dailies make it fun to try different classes.

[Setanta]

I got through closed beta and then got bored. I'm not sure why as I loved the paper MTG and liked/hated Magic Online. I got a full set of cards together and about half the gold legendaries so maybe I OD'd on it but it just doesn't have depth and the fact that some classes can't remove a 1 or 2 drop that has additional skills until later in the game is painful. I rate it as the person that used to ritual out hypnotic spectre and hymn to tourach turn 1, strip your control card out of your hand and then drop necropotence 2 turns later. It's just not fun when you are on the receiving end.

Hunter in Arena sucked because the good stuff was beast related and half the time I wouldn't draft beast cards because generics would pop up. I hope they fixed that.

[Venkman]

I will say I like the Arena mode best. I suck at building decks and even when I learn a system, I suck at losing gracefully. Theorycrafting and emotional investment kinda go hand in hand with me With Arena decks, I don't have a connection with some hours or days of decision making. Nice and casual.

Of course, that was before it asked me to pay money. That I don't see myself doing. Because that paths leads to theorycrafting, which leads to anger, which leades to hate...

[Ironwood]

Some people are apparently just really bloody good at forging decks with random cards.

The bastards.

[Xilren's Twin]

I got through closed beta and then got bored. I'm not sure why as I loved the paper MTG and liked/hated Magic Online.

You know, on reflection i think that one reason this game didn't stick for me was the complete absence of any social aspects.  The games are generally so short and not being able to communicate with your opponent really makes it almost feel like you are constantly playing an AI.  It got the point where when i lost a match i wasn't disappointed that i lost, i was disappointed that i had wasted my time (all 5-10 minutes of it).  And then i realized, playing it really feels like solo grinding mobs in an MMO.  "3 more wins to earn 50 gold" or "kill 10 rats" just feel the same if the moment to moment gameplay isnt that compelling.

By contrast, yesterday i took my son to the latest MtG paper pre-release and had a blast for 6 hours.  The games themselves were fun, but all the social stuff happening outside of the games was just as fun.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Pretty much this.  With no chat lobbies or anything it's just a very empty game.

[Paelos]

I think no chat lobbies is the strongest aspect of the game. There's nothing they could bring that would add to my enjoyment of the game, and 10x the things that would lessen it.

[Ironwood]

Kinda on the fence on this one.  On the one hand, more interaction with decent players would be good.

On the other, I just finished a game with the Right Honourable 'OwnzUrAss' who made it clear, every time I made a mistake and he emoted 'Well Played', that I would have had a hard time with a chat client being on.

So, you know.  Fence sitting.

[Rendakor]

No chat option sucks; for those of you who don't like dealing with internet assholes you could just turn it off and things would be functionally the same.

[Tannhauser]

Maybe add more chat bubbles but not voice.  I have no desire to hear from 'Beegpeenis'.

[Paelos]

Honestly what joy to you get from chatting with randoms? It's like talking in PUGs in WoW. I could do without it.

Sometimes I wonder if the people that want chat just want to critique somebody else or rub in their wins.

[Malakili]

I think with card games in particular a certain audience has the local game store experience very integrated into their love of the games, or even just the sitting around the kitchen table with your friend experience.  That's a big part of the appeal to table top games, and when they are ported over to a digital format it is really noticeable when that aspect is missing.

[Paelos]

Yeah I get sitting around with friends.

These aren't friends. This is the same pool of PUG assholes we've bitched about non-stop in the WoW forums. This is unwashed humanity with absolutely no barrier to entry.

[Rendakor]

Maybe add more chat bubbles but not voice.  I have no desire to hear from 'Beegpeenis'.

Oh yea I meant text only.

[Job601]

Lately I've been squelching everyone as soon as I get into games.  The chat is much more likely to make me feel bad than good.  You can friend people after playing them if you really have something you want to say.  Once I had a really close game against a Mage and I had to tell him that he should have shot his own Leper Gnome to get in for the last two damage on the turn before I won.

[Kail]

No chat option sucks; for those of you who don't like dealing with internet assholes you could just turn it off and things would be functionally the same.

I suspect it would cause more headaches than it would solve.  It would be like cross-faction chat in WoW, or "all" chat in LoL: 75% of the time it would be unused and pointless, 20% of the time you'd just be chatting with normal people, and 5% of the time it would be total assholes who generate CS calls and drive away customers.  That's not a feature that adds value.  Games like LoL and Dota have a reason to have chat, for their own team at least, but I don't see what it adds to Hearthstone.

[Malakili]

Yeah I get sitting around with friends.

These aren't friends. This is the same pool of PUG assholes we've bitched about non-stop in the WoW forums. This is unwashed humanity with absolutely no barrier to entry.

I'm not disagreeing with that, I'm just saying that for some of us that social experience is very connected to our experience of card games, so it is noticeable when you're just sitting there by yourself.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I might as well be playing against a pc, that's not exactly fun for me the same way playing virtual chess against the computer is not fun. 

[Morat20]

Just downloaded this and unlocked all the classes. Mage is kinda fun. I got some packs and opened them.

I haven't tried versus real people yet -- I take it arena is more random class/deck, whereas the standard 'play' is your custom built decks or a stock deck?