Magic: The Combattening - Hearthstone

[Rendakor]

My complaint with Arena mode is that you can't pick your own hero.

[trias_e]

Streaming arena now here:  twitch.tv/trias_e

Been playing way too much of this the past week or two.  Legit fun, but it's been a struggle to suck less. 

[murdoc]

I can see it being popular as a card game for people that don't play card games, essentially. 

I think this is where I sit -  I finally got some time with this on the weekend after being in Beta for awhile and I quite enjoyed it, but I am still terrible.

[Falconeer]

I enjoyed watcing Trias_e this morning. Which made me realize something: this game, being simpler, lends itself pretty decently to live broadcasting and the likes. Not sure how exciting can be in an eSport format, but the lack of interrupts, complicated card texts and long matches make it easy for people to follow and participate.

[Malakili]

Well, 100,000 people watched their makeshift Hearthstone tournament at Blizzcon, which seems to be about 10x the number of people who watch your average Grand Prix event.

[Merusk]

You can probably find the tournament on a site for viewing, the HOTS stream was linked on Escapist so you can probably find the Hearthstone one there as well.   I watched it last weekend since the wife bought a ticket and the game was very quick-paced. 

It took a little for me to understand the rules, but the mana being pushed out each turn and units not regenerating or being able to block made for very quick games.  The only reason to hit the other guys cards was to feed your units abilities or wipe out the problem ones on his side.  Every other strike was against the Champion.

[murdoc]

Watching Trias_e draft makes me realize even more that I have no clue wtf I am doing.

[schild]

Well, it's not drafting. It's making a sealed deck from a pool of 120 cards or something and you only get to pick 1 out of 3 at a time.

It's wonk as shit.

[Drai]

Yup - how the Arena determines the cards you get to choose from is puzzling.  Some pulls you will get 3-5 epics and 1-2 legendary choices, and other times just 1-2 epics.  I would hope there is some backend "overall deck power" calculation going on that ensures everyone gets a relatively even platform, but you sure as shit wouldn't know it when picking Arena decks.

[trias_e]

As far as I know, the only given is you will get 4 rare cards.  That's it, everything else is pure chance.  The amount of epics and legendaries you draft is totally random.  I've gone up against a guy with 3 legendaries in arena.  Ridiculous.  I think the chance of getting just 1 legendary in a 'draft' is 15% or so.

The fun thing about arena is that, since there are no card restrictions, you can have some pretty ridiculous decks yourself.  It is enjoyable to draft 4 swipes as a druid.  Well, not for the other player.

I don't mind the randomness, and good players have over 75% win rate, so it's not as if the randomness cannot be overcome to some extent by intelligent picks and play.

I think the real problem with the game right now is there just aren't enough cards (as in, we need more variety).  There's pretty much consensus in arena as to what cards are worth drafting and what aren't, although you also need to take into account your class, mana curve, and the rest of your deck when picking.  Some of the never-used cards could use a buff, more cards need to be introduced.  But they will be, and I think the game will continue to be enjoyable.  We'll see.

[Paelos]

Sounds cool and approachable. I like that.

[Malakili]

I think the real problem with the game right now is there just aren't enough cards (as in, we need more variety). 

The problem is that the mechanics of the game have pretty severely limited their design space for cards.  I mean, yes, they can do more with what they have.  But it's pretty much going to be variations on direct damage spells and creatures. 

[Falconeer]

Would you really be surprised if at some point down the road they introduced some kind of interrupt, or more interaction between players during each other turns, maybe starting with just a few cards before going full scale with a new card set?

[luckton]

Would you really be surprised if at some point down the road they introduced some kind of interrupt, or more interaction between players during each other turns, maybe starting with just a few cards before going full scale with a new card set?

Yes, actually, considering that they had the opportunity to copy/paste the WoW TCG as it was and instead decided to water it down to some kind of Parker Bros. version of the former. 

[Falconeer]

For sure, but in their minds that could be their own Blizzard way to introduce a few million people into something that would be otherwise too complicated, blasting it from huge to planetary. It's like: "OK, we need to take it down a notch to get everyone and their family hooked. Then, in two years, we'll give them interrupts."

I personally don't care. I just can see why they wanted to dumb down TCGs, and why they will have to complicate-it-up over time.

[luckton]

Hey, in a couple years, Hex might be playable too!   

[Numtini]

Well, it's not drafting. It's making a sealed deck from a pool of 120 cards or something and you only get to pick 1 out of 3 at a time.

It's wonk as shit.

It's drafting. You don't get access to the same cards every time. You're missing the most important thing about it too: you can play (and pay) arena even if you don't have time to play through a draft at that moment. Hex should very seriously consider copying it. Not to replace, but to add to the options. Or possibly as a replacement for phantom drafting.

[Malakili]

It's not drafting because it isn't a shared pool of cards is it? 

[trias_e]

I think the real problem with the game right now is there just aren't enough cards (as in, we need more variety). 

The problem is that the mechanics of the game have pretty severely limited their design space for cards.  I mean, yes, they can do more with what they have.  But it's pretty much going to be variations on direct damage spells and creatures. 

I disagree that they have severely limited their design space.  There are plenty of things they can easily add.  Graveyard, multi-turn effects (like Overload), Regen mechanics, hand size stuff, mill stuff, and tons of creature mechanics.  The only things that are going to be lacking are lands and interrupts.  Also, since it is a computer only CCG, they can add many things that would be annoying as hell to keep track of in magic.

Really the only big thing they won't be adding is interrupts.  The main reason they won't add them is because they slows the game down immensely, since after each decision you have to sit and wait for your opponent to confirm whether or not they want to interrupt, which is terrible game design if you want a fast paced casual friendly game.

[Numtini]

Secrets are auto-firing interrupts.

[schild]

They're also stupid.

[Ingmar]

Put me down for "it's not drafting" too. Without having to worry about what I pass on to another player the experience is fundamentally different.

[MrHat]

Got to 8 wins in the arena on my....7th arena go? You get a lot of gold in this game.

[Simond]

I think the real problem with the game right now is there just aren't enough cards (as in, we need more variety). 

The problem is that the mechanics of the game have pretty severely limited their design space for cards.  I mean, yes, they can do more with what they have.  But it's pretty much going to be variations on direct damage spells and creatures. 

I disagree that they have severely limited their design space.  There are plenty of things they can easily add.  Graveyard, multi-turn effects (like Overload), Regen mechanics, hand size stuff, mill stuff, and tons of creature mechanics.  The only things that are going to be lacking are lands and interrupts.  Also, since it is a computer only CCG, they can add many things that would be annoying as hell to keep track of in magic.

Really the only big thing they won't be adding is interrupts.  The main reason they won't add them is because they slows the game down immensely, since after each decision you have to sit and wait for your opponent to confirm whether or not they want to interrupt, which is terrible game design if you want a fast paced casual friendly game.

One of the "development of Hearthstone" videos from Blizzcon had a section where they listed ideas that had been cut. Interrupts were one for them - both for the reason you said (slowing the game down), but also because in the developers' eyes they're simply not fun.

[MrHat]

The level of play at primetime is significantly worse than any other time of day/night.

[Tannhauser]

My priest deck needs lots of work.  The matchmaker gave me the same opponent twice in a row.  We split the series.  I've only spent $10 but I did get Doomhammer, just trying to create a good shaman deck to use it in.  This is a good game, but two copies of the same card in a 30 card deck seems awfully restrictive.  Like others said, it's fun but shallow. 

[Xilren's Twin]

Well, it's not drafting. It's making a sealed deck from a pool of 120 cards or something and you only get to pick 1 out of 3 at a time. It's wonk as shit.

It's drafting. You don't get access to the same cards every time. You're missing the most important thing about it too: you can play (and pay) arena even if you don't have time to play through a draft at that moment. Hex should very seriously consider copying it. Not to replace, but to add to the options. Or possibly as a replacement for phantom drafting.

Yeah this isnt drafting at all.  Draft has a shared card pool from a known booster distribution, and fixed opponent set (the 7 other people you draft with) which play a huge part in the strategy and deck building part of draft.  Knowing when to hate draft a card that would be problematic for your deck, or just knowing what good cards you have passed informs the whole process.  Arena has none of this.  You can't even rely that you will get some fundamental cards for your character class.  Example, last arena i chose priest, and got 0 mind controls.  In playing my random opponents, i played 4 other priests ALL of whom had at least 1.  And of course my rares sucked that card set too.  It's fine for Hearthstone but its also a deliberate low complexity version of limited play - it IS a sealed hybrid.  I'd put it closest to the old MTGO league play with just a 1 session limiit.

[Numtini]

Yeah this isnt drafting at all.

Mea Culpa. I hadn't thought about the strategy of the draft itself and understand what you all mean. On the other hand, it's definitely not constructed. It's random.

Either way, it's new and it works very well.

I find this all a bit amusing as I was someone who vastly prefers the forced grouping and difficulty of earlier MMOs and I've never warmed to WoW. I'm now on the opposite side because I find HS vastly more fun than Hex or MTG mainly because of accessibility issues.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

If Magic drafts cost $2, I sure as hell wouldn't play much Hearthstone.

[Ghambit]

I just found an old beta invite from October.   
#installing

[Tannhauser]

After a marathon day of playing I've gotten all my heroes up to at least level 10.  Spent $10 more and got a couple of purpz.  Every hero does have a unique flavor but I find I keep using the same neutral cards.  The Warlock has a lot of fun cards, but he's pretty fiddly.  My Druid deck is pitiful. 

[Xilren's Twin]

I took the survey they emailed me about the game, and it seems clear from the amount of questions on the survey they are really positioning HS for the tablet/mobile market.  That and social media tie ins.  Take that for what it's worth.

Also, the one question on the survey that asked about what other features would you like to see added to HS, none of the choices were gameplay altering at all.  The closest one was "i wish i could reorder the cards in my hand".

[Ghambit]

The tech. men of industry with all the money have it in their heads that "mobile is everything."  I say this literally.  So...  get used to it.  Because we're at the point where if you've got a startup and need capital, you better have mobile capability.

[Job601]

When this game comes out for iPhone and Android, it will destroy all of its competition.  It's light-years better than any of the other F2P card games in that space and it has a much more player-friendly business model, too.  Maybe if it does well it will show Wizards how much money they're leaving on the table by not allowing real, affordable drafting in Duels of the Planeswalkers.

[Ragnoros]

When this game comes out for iPhone and Android, it will destroy all of its competition.  It's light-years better than any of the other F2P card games in that space and it has a much more player-friendly business model, too.

All signs point to yes. I can't believe they haven't announced a launch date for tablets yet. They are basically bleeding millions a day while they futz around. OHNOWAIT, Blizzard...

Maybe if it does well it will show Wizards how much money they're leaving on the table by not allowing real, affordable drafting in Duels of the Planeswalkers.

Nope.