Magic: The Combattening - Hearthstone

[Sophismata]

There's not a lot of power creep, though. In fact, all the most powerful cards have left rotation. The main issue is that because that's happened, if you don't have cards from the new set there will be massive holes in your deck.

[Nebu]

There's not a lot of power creep, though. In fact, all the most powerful cards have left rotation. The main issue is that because that's happened, if you don't have cards from the new set there will be massive holes in your deck.

Here's the test of your statement:  Put together a deck of old, standard cards and see how high you can get in ranked.  I promise you that your 2/3 gator won't cut it against the 2 drop mobs in the expansion.

[Sophismata]

There's not a lot of power creep, though. In fact, all the most powerful cards have left rotation. The main issue is that because that's happened, if you don't have cards from the new set there will be massive holes in your deck.

Here's the test of your statement:  Put together a deck of old, standard cards and see how high you can get in ranked.  I promise you that your 2/3 gator won't cut it against the 2 drop mobs in the expansion.

Well, currently the most used generic 2-drops (outside C'Thun decks) are the Juggler and Toad which aren't from WotoG. Then Warlock will use Peddler, which is from LoE, and Shaman will Totem Golem (TGT) and maybe the new WotoG 2-drop depending on how aggressive the deck is.

As far as expansions in general go, absolutely you want cards from them. But it's not specific to WotoG, and WotoG cards in general have much less power than the Naxx and GvG cards which just left rotation.

[Morat20]

Very frustrating, yep. :)

Not that I had a ton of good cards before. I wonder if it's worth it to finish the Naxx stuff I haven't done?

[Soln]

So, what do new players do?  Duse had some good advice, but really is the best advice spend monies to get by (let alone be competitive)?   Asking because I'm effectively new.

[Sophismata]

So, what do new players do?  Duse had some good advice, but really is the best advice spend monies to get by (let alone be competitive)?   Asking because I'm effectively new.

First up, what are you looking for? You can be competitive without spending any money, but it will take a little bit of time to create a competitive deck from scratch. If you don't mind playing Arena, it's an even better choice - you'll earn gold and cards from playing and if you do well enough it's self-sustaining (you get paid the entry fee back in rewards). If you're just looking to have fun, you can play casual games, tavern brawls and the adventures with mostly basic cards until you get more.

In my opinion, the most fun aspects of Hearthstone are the adventures. Sadly the Naxx adventure is no longer available, but Black Rock Mountain and League of Explorers are both available. If you have to choose one, LoE's cards will be usable in Standard play for longer, and BRM will be closed off sooner (ie all the fun content will be lost). You can buy just the first wing of any adventure though and Blizzard have said that you'll always be able to buy the remaining wings.


Edit:

If you're looking to get into the game and compete on the ladder (which does offer prizes and can be a lot of fun), it's very possible. The recent change makes it easier, not harder, to be competitive since you no longer have to worry about the GvG expansion or the Naxx adventure when building a competitive deck. Sadly the best cards are interspersed across BRM, LoE and WotoG (with a handful of TGT cards being viable), so you will want to unlock all the adventures for access to their guaranteed legendaries and mostly solid class cards.

In general, Aggro decks are cheap because they use mostly commons and rares, and control decks are expensive due to a large number of epics and legendaries. Cheap Tier 1 decks include Shaman Aggro and Warlock Zoo — the Shaman deck absolutely requires 2 Doomhammers (epic cards), but the Warlock Zoo deck is very flexible and can run a large number of commons. I've been successful enough to take an Aggro Warrior running nothing but commons (+ 1 rare) to rank 7-8, but that was before the TGT expansion (by which point I had enough cards to make more reasonable decks).


So, how do you make money and earn cards?

1. Play casually. Most of your income comes from quests and they are only spawned once / day. Reroll your 40gold quests unless you want to maximise efficiency and keep multiple quests for the same class up so you can complete them quickly.

2. Play arena. There's a wealth of resources available (streams, tier lists, etc) if you don't want to just dive in, but arena will both teach you about the game and reward you for doing well (morse than ladder does). As you play, you'll build up a collection of gold, dust and cards that can help give you a kickstart into competitive ladder play.

3. Play the weekly Brawl. It'll normally let you win games with classes you don't want to play in arena or classes you don't have cards for in ladder, so you get quest money. It will also flat out give you a pack for winning any game.


Your first goal should be the adventures, preferably LoE since it has a lot of strong cards. The adventures are actually fun to play so win/win. Sadly, they'll set you back 2800gold. If you're playing the game during travel or once every few days your quests will earn you plenty of gold. If you're spamming the game you'll probably burn out on it (it lacks depth) so I don't recommend doing that.

Once the adventures are done, have a look at something like tempostorm to find a solid, cheap and competitive deck. It doesn't have to be tier 1, tiers are only really relevant at the higher levels of play, but it should be fun and not use too many epics or legendaries. Work out how many cards you're missing, and craft them (disenchant gold cards to do this, since they provide a lot of dust).

[Morat20]

I just finished a game (lost badly) against a Shaman that is best called "Fucking bullshit". Wait, two games. WTF is Grim Patron and who decided that was a good idea?

[schild]

I just finished a game (lost badly) against a Shaman that is best called "Fucking bullshit". Wait, two games. WTF is Grim Patron and who decided that was a good idea?

Looked up Grim Patron.

lol

[Morat20]

I just finished a game (lost badly) against a Shaman that is best called "Fucking bullshit". Wait, two games. WTF is Grim Patron and who decided that was a good idea?

Looked up Grim Patron.

lol

If you saw it and thought "This is exploitable as fuck" then yes, you are right. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to deal with it (I can think of several I have, just from the basic cards.

But if you don't have one of those handy, especially if you're a Shaman with the healing totem. He was hitting his own guys to keep spawning more of them, which then got healed back up. It was...annoying.

I'm not sure how I feel about this C'thon guy either.

[schild]

It's obviously exploitable. Like, with zero knowledge of the game's mechanics it looks exploitable. Not that I have zero knowledge, I'm just saying it's a busted design from the top down and the bottom up.

[Sophismata]

Patron Warrior was the must fun and creative and "real" deck that Hearthstone ever produced, and they killed it. It continues to limp along like an extraordinarily dangerous zombie but it will never be what it once was.

As to how you deal with Grim Patron — 3 or more damage. The only class that's dangerous with Patron is Warrior, where you'll probably need a 3 damage board clear.

[schild]

Patron Warrior was the must fun and creative and "real" deck that Hearthstone ever produced, and they killed it. It continues to limp along like an extraordinarily dangerous zombie but it will never be what it once was.

As to how you deal with Grim Patron — 3 or more damage. The only class that's dangerous with Patron is Warrior, where you'll probably need a 3 damage board clear.

Mage can't ping it for 1?

[Sophismata]

They can but it's easy to deal with two patrons. Warrior is the class that will, for 0 mana, turn a 3/3 into a 5/2 and a 3/3, and then for 1 mana you'll have a 5/1, 3/2, and two 3/3's on the board.

And that is now that Death's Bite (a weapon with a built-in whirlwind effect) is gone. It used to be turn 4 they'd play a 4/2 weapon, turn five they attack again for 4 damage and now there are also 4 patrons on the board.

Patron is too expensive unless you can really exploit its ability. A Mage needs 7 mana to drop a 3/2 and a 3/3 and by that point in the game their opponent should have an easy way to deal with it.

[dusematic]

The saddest/funniest thing about hearthstone is that whenever you're winning, there is a 25% chance the other person will, seeing the writing on the wall, begin attempting to grief you by maxing their turns out until the timer runs dry and spamming "thank you" or "wow." 

I assume this pisses off a lot of people considering how widespread it is, so here's my (probably) obvious tip:  just flip the script.  After an excruciating turn of waiting for you, the inevitable winner, things usually start to sink in, and they gg, and quit the game.

It's a very weird bit of human psychology.  These people would be perfectly happy otherwise wasting their time for even the chance of inconveniencing you, but once they see you're playing their game, they do the math, sort of seem to understand that they are going to get short shrift on the trolling index.

[Sophismata]

Wow, I've only ever run into one player who deliberately roped like that. I climb the ladder every season, too, so I play fairly often.

[Zetor]

Deliberate roping and other types of psychological asshattery are just Sirlin-esque "Play to Win" stuff, so they probably feel like tactical geniuses even if they are just roping before you inevitably kill them on the next turn.

Quoth http://hearthstoneplayers.com/playing-to-win-part-two-ropes-mulligans/

OBJECTIVE: I’m going to argue that you should Rope every single turn of the game.

Why? Because roping every turn can improve your win percentage. It does this through three basic mechanisms:
1. Playing slowly may annoy your opponent (particularly if the opponent is trying to play a ‘Wins-per-Hour’ strategy). Your slow play may annoy your opponent enough that they instantly concede or misplay due to frustration.
2. The more time you spend thinking, the more likely it is that you will make strong moves and avoid misplays.
3. Varied ‘Play Speed’ gives free information to the opponent: By roping each turn you deny your opponent access to this sort of information.

[dusematic]

Interesting.  But also, anecdotally there is an extremely high chance that if you start counter roping the then they quit.  The vast majority of times someone ropes me it's quite they're losing and I'm climbing the ladder. You don't get a lot of roping at rank 3.

[koro]

I find it kind of amusing that you all are crying foul over Patron Warrior nowadays, when the deck is simply a strong but balanced deck in today's meta.

A year ago, Patron Warriors could put out over 60 damage in a single turn with only a small handful of cards; literally the only way to beat them would be to not only be able to kill them before turn 7, but also for them to have monumentally bad draw.

[Paelos]

I find it kind of amusing that you all are crying foul over Patron Warrior nowadays, when the deck is simply a strong but balanced deck in today's meta.

A year ago, Patron Warriors could put out over 60 damage in a single turn with only a small handful of cards; literally the only way to beat them would be to not only be able to kill them before turn 7, but also for them to have monumentally bad draw.

Where or not it's "balanced" in your mind doesn't make it a good card. Granted it's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still a cheese card. The other one that really annoys me right now is the Twin Emperors. It's absurdly powerful and has the added craziness of coupling it with Brann makes it silly.

[Morat20]

I find it kind of amusing that you all are crying foul over Patron Warrior nowadays, when the deck is simply a strong but balanced deck in today's meta.

A year ago, Patron Warriors could put out over 60 damage in a single turn with only a small handful of cards; literally the only way to beat them would be to not only be able to kill them before turn 7, but also for them to have monumentally bad draw.

I'm only whining because I have just the common cards, by and large (And not a whole lot of any of the great ones) and I'd never seen it before. So it was....an annoying thing to face.

[Sophismata]

Deliberate roping and other types of psychological asshattery are just Sirlin-esque "Play to Win" stuff, so they probably feel like tactical geniuses even if they are just roping before you inevitably kill them on the next turn.

Quoth http://hearthstoneplayers.com/playing-to-win-part-two-ropes-mulligans/

What that article fails to mention is that ultimately climbing the ladder is dependant on your wins over time, and roping is detrimental to that. Getting a 70% win rate with a fast deck playing maybe 10 games in an hour is way better than a 80% win rate with 2 games an hour.

Otherwise, I'd agree (but it's still a dick move though). The game should have chess clocks.

I find it kind of amusing that you all are crying foul over Patron Warrior nowadays, when the deck is simply a strong but balanced deck in today's meta.

A year ago, Patron Warriors could put out over 60 damage in a single turn with only a small handful of cards; literally the only way to beat them would be to not only be able to kill them before turn 7, but also for them to have monumentally bad draw.

Back when Patron was actually fun and interesting. It was never overpowered (in fact its average winrate was <50%), it was just incredibly consistent in a game which desperately tries to reduce consistency with the majority of its mechanics. The only deck where pretty much every card synergised with every other card - it was like playing a M:tG deck.

Where or not it's "balanced" in your mind doesn't make it a good card. Granted it's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still a cheese card. The other one that really annoys me right now is the Twin Emperors. It's absurdly powerful and has the added craziness of coupling it with Brann makes it silly.

Seriously, there're a ton of ways to deal with Patrons. The Twin Emperors though are as bad as Dr Boom — auto-include 7-drop in any C'Thun deck. Most of their power comes from exploiting the battle cry though, so you can have turn 10 plays of Bran + 3 Emperors. Or a Rogue can bounce them with Shadowcasters.

You need to anticipate them appearing in any C'Thun deck and keep in mind that in general no deck is going to have a good match up against every other deck. So you might just be weak against C'Thun stall, but that's OK if you're strong against other deck archetypes.

What class do you prefer to play? Druid is the class that struggles to deal with Emperors the most.

[Azuredream]

Its win rate was only low because it was hard to play, though. If you played that deck optimally your win rate was definitely not <50%. The entire meta was basically 'Patron and the decks that don't automatically lose to Patron.'

Right now I'm trying to find a good counter to shamans since at least half my games are against them. I've been trying Priest which I feel on paper should be a good answer but my win rate is still probably about 50%, or roughly the same as if I just played Miracle Rogue or Tempo Mage. I've been running two flamestrikes in my Tempo Mage and actually think it's really damn good. Unless you draw both immediately it's pretty much never a card you're sad to draw, and nobody ever plays around the second flamestrike.

[Morat20]

So, tried Tavern Brawl.  This week is: Pick two cards, and your whole deck is filled with those two cards.

I needed mage victories for my daily. So I picked mage, picked Undertaker, and picked Leper Gnome.

I felt better about that Grim Patron thing after watching some poor schmuck realize that playing minions just gave my suicide gnomes something to attack. I'm honestly not sure what their deck was, they just played one minion (one of the "reduce spellcasting cost" ones). I suspect they had fireballs or something as the other, but died just way too quickly.

[Setanta]

Rogue, cannon and 1 drop 2/1 pirate that gets charge when weapon is equipped :)

I saw a fun rogue mech deck  that I wouldn't have minded trying

[Paelos]

What class do you prefer to play? Druid is the class that struggles to deal with Emperors the most.

I like Mage, Lock, or Pally mostly. I just don't have a ton of the good cards yet.

[Abagadro]

Heh,been using a sick combo for the current 2 card brawl. Winning 90 percent of the time in 4 turns.  Murloc Tidecaller and Grimscale Oracle. Can have a 9 attack minion in 3 turns along with a bunch of others. 

[Druzil]

Innervate + Y'Shaarj is pretty fun.

[Morat20]

There seems to be an interesting one involving 0 cost cards and the 1 cost "evolve" card. (Which I don't have).

Very random though.

[Abagadro]

Meta caught up with my combo a bit so win rate has dropped down to 50 percent or so. An annoying one I am running into now is one that basically makes you draw all your cards within the first 2-3 turns.

[Setanta]

I was trying a druid Angry Chicken combo with Yshaarj just for shits and giggles - I did get a 16 damage chicken at one stage but it loses to the turn 4 killers especially mech

Freeze and Murloc card drawer is fun as a mage - especially when the opponent is playing murloc boosters and you loch his board up

[Setanta]

Oh snap!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFcITSZIZ_0&feature=youtu.be

[Druzil]

That's a pretty good combo.  I ran a few games of Brave Archer + Arcane shot which is really entertaining.  Gets countered by decks like wild pyro + pw:s or decks that run argent squire.  It does well against slightly slower combos like shaman evolve.

[Morat20]

That's a pretty good combo.  I ran a few games of Brave Archer + Arcane shot which is really entertaining.  Gets countered by decks like wild pyro + pw:s or decks that run argent squire.  It does well against slightly slower combos like shaman evolve.

I was amusing myself with Mana Worm and arcane missile. It seemed to be rather effective. Mostly I needed to cast 40 spells today, so I swapped to a combo with a spell. (I find the Innervate/Oracle combo boring to play).

[Soln]

Oh snap!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFcITSZIZ_0&feature=youtu.be

Wow this game is broken 

[Morat20]

Oh snap!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFcITSZIZ_0&feature=youtu.be

Wow this game is broken 

It's this week's Tavern Brawl. Pick two cards, they fill your deck with them. It's your ENTIRE deck. Those two cards. 15 of each.

(The regular rules are no more than two of any one card in a deck). The entire point is to come up with broken crap like that.