Magic: The Combattening - Hearthstone

[Tannhauser]

Is anyone having success with the new dragon themed cards?  I just built a pally deck and crafted Ysera to try them out.  Deck's fun, but slooow.

30 million players, wow.  I wonder which Blizzard game brings them the most income.

[Ironwood]

I feel the same way about this as a Magic player as I do about Call of Duty as a Counter Strike player. It's just still shocking to me how many people prefer a way shittier cheaper game.

This shocks you ?

[Fabricated]

Counterstrike is a beast of its own and the skill requirements are daunting for people who would rather just play a standard teamDM game like CoD.

Some of my coworkers like to play Munchkin over lunch when we're stuck in the office and Hearthstone kinda reminds me of it. Like, I'm playing it and enjoying it a bit, but man it's obviously a pretty bad game. Worse ways to kill a lunch hour however.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Sometimes you want to just pull up a simpler game and fuck around, I don't see how people miss that kind of appeal.

[Paelos]

Sometimes you want to just pull up a simpler game and fuck around, I don't see how people miss that kind of appeal.

Replace sometimes with most of the time for the average person.

That's why these things do well. The mass population of gamers do not want to be challenged. They do not want a learning curve. They want ding-gratz, regular rewards, neat polish, and quick gaming sessions they can pick up and put down.

There's an entirely different subsect of gaming that's rebelling against the mass market, and there's money to be made there as well. Just not nearly as much.

[Merusk]

You're trying to explain to pro golfers that 5 strokes on the par 3 is about average and doesn't ruin your day.

[Malakili]

Sometimes you want to just pull up a simpler game and fuck around, I don't see how people miss that kind of appeal.

That's what Diablo 3 is for. But the difference is that Diablo 3 is actually engaging to play. Hearthstone can't even keep my attention for the 10 minutes I'm supposed to be fucking around with it.  

Yes, before someone feels the need to point it out again, I realize that is how I feel about it, not objective fact.  Last time I checked most of what we talk about on this forum are opinions about video games.

I also realize that apparently lots of people are playing Hearthstone on mobile devices. Mobile games just aren't a thing for me because there is basically 0 overlap for me between when I only have access to a mobile device and I actually have time to play a game.

[Paelos]

Opinions are great. Saying why you think a game sucks or is boring or is too easy or doesn't appeal to you or has mechanics you hate? That's all fine.

What drives me crazy is the attitude that some people get that goes like this, "This game sucks, and people shouldn't like it. There are so many better games out there."

My response to that is usually A - Who the fuck are you to tell people how to have fun? and B - Haha it will probably make 10x the profit of your nut-crusher game you think is great.

[Druzil]

Is anyone having success with the new dragon themed cards?  I just built a pally deck and crafted Ysera to try them out.  Deck's fun, but slooow.

30 million players, wow.  I wonder which Blizzard game brings them the most income.

I've tried Dragons in my control Paladin & Oil Rogue decks and both were ok but not great.  Hungry Dragon is not as good of a card as I expected it to be, Blackwing Tech on the other hand is amazing when it works out and still decent when it doesn't.  Blackwing Corrupter is great but having to put the other cards like Hungry Dragon & Twillight Drake in makes me not want to play him.  I've heard some people have had success running it in Handlock so I may try that soon.  I haven't tried Volcanic Drake yet.

I've gotten 3 Warrior quests the last couple days so I've been playing a bit of Patron Warrior and plays so much different than any other deck (plus I really don't play warrior much).  It really took me a few games to get a handle on some of the combos and partial combos you can do.  Sometimes you have to make weird plays because the deck is so combo dependent if you don't draw into the right cards early on the plays are not really not obvious.  Also I saw double ooze and Harrison Jones like 3 times in the last 2 days so I may move to a non weapon for a day or two.

[ezrast]

That's why these things do well. The mass population of gamers do not want to be challenged. They do not want a learning curve. They want ding-gratz, regular rewards, neat polish, and quick gaming sessions they can pick up and put down.

Just to throw this out there, Hearthstone does not actually have noticeable ding-gratz or regular rewards, which is one of the most frustrating things about it aside from the relentless RNG. Constructed rewards are basically nonexistent and arena is only very slightly better than just buying packs outright unless you're a significantly above-average player. I leveled up my shaman the other day and unlocked a foil Magma Rager. Whoop-de-goddamn-doo.

[Paelos]

True, but Hearthstone does have levels on the heroes, quests that offer gold, and the addiction/RNG of buying packs.

There is a slow crawl of rewards, but it's pretty standard with the dailies.

[schild]

As someone who just made a thread praising a fucking non-interactive slot machine, I feel pretty qualified to say "Hearthstone is bland trash and people shouldn't be playing it, but I understand why they are playing it."

And that reason is that they're bad at card games.

Which is fine, I'm not judging them for that. We all knew this would be a success. Let's move on, thx.

[Tannhauser]

Is anyone having success with the new dragon themed cards?  I just built a pally deck and crafted Ysera to try them out.  Deck's fun, but slooow.

30 million players, wow.  I wonder which Blizzard game brings them the most income.

I've tried Dragons in my control Paladin & Oil Rogue decks and both were ok but not great.  Hungry Dragon is not as good of a card as I expected it to be, Blackwing Tech on the other hand is amazing when it works out and still decent when it doesn't.  Blackwing Corrupter is great but having to put the other cards like Hungry Dragon & Twillight Drake in makes me not want to play him.  I've heard some people have had success running it in Handlock so I may try that soon.  I haven't tried Volcanic Drake yet.

I've gotten 3 Warrior quests the last couple days so I've been playing a bit of Patron Warrior and plays so much different than any other deck (plus I really don't play warrior much).  It really took me a few games to get a handle on some of the combos and partial combos you can do.  Sometimes you have to make weird plays because the deck is so combo dependent if you don't draw into the right cards early on the plays are not really not obvious.  Also I saw double ooze and Harrison Jones like 3 times in the last 2 days so I may move to a non weapon for a day or two.

Patron Warriors are pretty popular right now, my friend has one that fired a little too late to help.  Dragonkin Sorc doing good in my Priest deck, BW Tech and BW Corruptor are good cards.  Volcanic Drake would be good in a Warlock deck with Demonwrath or Hellfire played first. Or after any AoE board wipe I guess. Otherwise I'm down on it.  Hungry Dragon is still on the fence for me.  Drak Crusher and Chromaggus look really good but I've not messed with them yet.  Nefarian is a poor man's Ysera, which I just crafted.   Ysera also immune to BGH and immune to SW: Pain & Death. Plus she has cool-ass Dream cards.

[Druzil]

Yeah I love Ysera.  Turn 5 Dragon Consort into Turn 6 Ysera is just fun.  Even if she gets silenced you still get the 4/12 and the dream card.

I'm not sure where I'd put Volcanic Drake in any of my Warlock decks, I'll have to play around with it.  Voidcaller is just way too strong and if you are building around voidcaller then I don't know if you have room for Drake.  Imp Gang boss is great though, that card is a pain ass to remove.

[Paelos]

As someone who just made a thread praising a fucking non-interactive slot machine, I feel pretty qualified to say "Hearthstone is bland trash and people shouldn't be playing it, but I understand why they are playing it."

And that reason is that they're bad at card games.

Which is fine, I'm not judging them for that. We all knew this would be a success. Let's move on, thx.

You could basically replace bad at card games with "skills"

Average gamers are bad at any skills now. We opened up the pool to the masses and the shallow end where people won't drown is REALLY crowded.

[Ginaz]

As someone who just made a thread praising a fucking non-interactive slot machine, I feel pretty qualified to say "Hearthstone is bland trash and people shouldn't be playing it, but I understand why they are playing it."

And that reason is that they're bad at card games.

Which is fine, I'm not judging them for that. We all knew this would be a success. Let's move on, thx.

You could basically replace bad at card games with "skills"

Average gamers are bad at any skills now. We opened up the pool to the masses and the shallow end where people won't drown is REALLY crowded.

Pretty much.  I consider myself good but not great playing World of Tanks yet compared to about 2/3 of the player base, I'm Mohamed Ali, Micheal Jordon, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Montana all rolled into one.  A cat hitting random keys could do better than a lot of people.

[Tannhauser]

New expansion announced!  The Grand Tourney.  Adds pirate, ogre, dragon and new 'inspire' keyword cards and more.  Personally I'm excited about more pirate and murloc cards.  I had a pirate rogue deck but it didn't work; not enough pirate cards.  I have a shaman murloc rush deck that can actually win a few games.  The new 'inspire' keyword activates after your hero uses his power. 

Some are griping about the quick release after Goblins and Gnomes but I'm happy with it.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/

[K9]

So apparently Hearthstone is having some balance issues? Which may or may not be the result of a poor design philosophy?

Is anyone still playing this or following the 'pro' scene. Would be curious and slightly scary if this game tanked so soon.

Either way, Blizzard properties aren't looking so hot right now.

[schild]

Hearthstone was built to have balance issues. It was never balanced.

[Tannhauser]

So apparently Hearthstone is having some balance issues? Which may or may not be the result of a poor design philosophy?

Is anyone still playing this or following the 'pro' scene. Would be curious and slightly scary if this game tanked so soon.

Either way, Blizzard properties aren't looking so hot right now.

Haven't played it for a few weeks, but that's because I moved and got a new job and now Fallout 4 is coming out.  If I re-start HS, I'll submerge into it again.  I don't see it 'tanking', what else is out there?  Magic is old and busted and Hex has dozens of fans.

[ezrast]

So apparently Hearthstone is having some balance issues? Which may or may not be the result of a poor design philosophy?

Is anyone still playing this or following the 'pro' scene. Would be curious and slightly scary if this game tanked so soon.

Either way, Blizzard properties aren't looking so hot right now.

Nothing new. Today it's secret paladin, yesterday it was patron warrior, pre-TGT it was still patron warrior, pre-BRM it was mech mage, pre-Undertaker nerf it was undertaker hunter, pre-GvG it was zoo warlock or something.

The meta is definitely healthier at some times than at others, but most of the time the game moves fast enough that the dominant deck is whichever dumb aggro deck can shit out the most sticky creatures in the first few turns of the game. Patron warrior was a notable anomaly, but for the most part control and combo decks are fucked unless they can walk back the game's power level, which probably means phasing out sets, which their playerbase will never be ready for.

Blizzard's attempts at balance are generally incomprehensible. Rogues have received shit for cards for the last two expansions and are completely absent on ladder. Shamans have received great cards for the last two expansions but are still completely absent on ladder. Secret paladin is the #1 deck but somehow nobody is playing the dedicated anti-secret cards Kezan Mystic or Flare. Ben Brode released a video when they nerfed Warsong Commander (and therefore patron warrior) into oblivion, and his justification was literally "new players don't know the card is awful now, and that's all we care about."

Still haven't found anything better to do while I wait for the train though. :/

[Merusk]

Hearthstone was built to have balance issues. It was never balanced.

Didn't we say this from the start? Yes, we did.

Didn't people say it wasn't a problem? Yes, they did.

 

[Maledict]

So apparently Hearthstone is having some balance issues? Which may or may not be the result of a poor design philosophy?

Is anyone still playing this or following the 'pro' scene. Would be curious and slightly scary if this game tanked so soon.

Either way, Blizzard properties aren't looking so hot right now.

I have to say, that second article on card advantage is utter garbage of the highest sort. The author literally doesn't know what they are talking about.

That's not to say Hearthstone isn't fundamentally flawed - it is. but that guy doesn't understand why. Of all the cards he links as being problems, almost all of them are because they are badly costed not because of some design flaw. Divine Inspiration is the only "broken in design" card he lists, and that sort of effect is dumb and can;t really ever be costed well in a game like hearthstone. All the other cards are literally cards that can and do exist in MTG - card advantage isn't just about "spells" being able to take creatures out efficiently.

[koro]

So apparently Hearthstone is having some balance issues? Which may or may not be the result of a poor design philosophy?

Is anyone still playing this or following the 'pro' scene. Would be curious and slightly scary if this game tanked so soon.

Either way, Blizzard properties aren't looking so hot right now.

Nothing new. Today it's secret paladin, yesterday it was patron warrior, pre-TGT it was still patron warrior, pre-BRM it was mech mage, pre-Undertaker nerf it was undertaker hunter, pre-GvG it was zoo warlock or something.

The meta is definitely healthier at some times than at others, but most of the time the game moves fast enough that the dominant deck is whichever dumb aggro deck can shit out the most sticky creatures in the first few turns of the game. Patron warrior was a notable anomaly, but for the most part control and combo decks are fucked unless they can walk back the game's power level, which probably means phasing out sets, which their playerbase will never be ready for.

Blizzard's attempts at balance are generally incomprehensible. Rogues have received shit for cards for the last two expansions and are completely absent on ladder. Shamans have received great cards for the last two expansions but are still completely absent on ladder. Secret paladin is the #1 deck but somehow nobody is playing the dedicated anti-secret cards Kezan Mystic or Flare. Ben Brode released a video when they nerfed Warsong Commander (and therefore patron warrior) into oblivion, and his justification was literally "new players don't know the card is awful now, and that's all we care about."

Still haven't found anything better to do while I wait for the train though. :/

As an aside, patron warrior is still a thing that exists, but it's moved from being the ultimate combo deck capable of taking an empty board on your side and then clearing the opponent's board and then insta-killing any opponent with anything less than 60 health in a single turn to being a fairly effective midrange deck.

But right now the meta isn't nearly as bad as people whine about, because secrets paladin is is a far cry from the nearly-unbeatable monsters like pre-nerf patron or the old undertaker hunter. It's annoying, but far from insurmountable.

[Tannhauser]

Exactly.  Like ezrast said up-thread, FOTM come and go.  Balanced game? Nah. Fun game?  Oh yes.

[koro]

And we also have a new expansion coming out Tuesday, which looks interesting if only for the fact that it gives Warriors a goddamn decent Common card for arena.

[Tannhauser]

Why did you say that?  I had no idea an adventure was coming out!  (They pull me back in)

Of the explorers, Reno's ability is a hail mary, I like Brann's, and the murlocs's is random (which I can take or leave, but he's a great card for my murloc deck).  Druids get more much needed beasts and one is also great for spell damage druids.  The new Discover keyword is...ok. 

[ezrast]

Discover would be great if it tutored from your deck instead of the general card pool. That would grant combo, and to a lesser extent control, a lot of the consistency they need to eke out wins over rush decks if they were able to restrict their deckbuilding a bit, which is an interesting tradeoff. Just putting random shit into your hand is yet another aggro-centric mechanic. Snore.

[Malakili]

I don't even play this, but I saw this today: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19995505

The New Standard
Standard is a new format in Play mode that allows players to go head-to-head using only the most recently released Hearthstone cards. You’ll play Standard using a deck built solely from a pool of cards that were released in the current and previous calendar year, along with a core foundation of the Basic and Classic card sets (which will always be valid for Standard). You’ll be matched against other players who are also using Standard decks.

Well, at least they are learning something from Wizards of the coast. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Wow, if I had any thought of going back this just killed it.

[Druzil]

Wow... I don't know how I feel about this.   This kills off a number of decks and there are LOTS of viable decks right now outside of legend ranks.  They better be real careful about what cards are available in standard format or it's going to get real stale real fast.

[schild]

Way too late to make this a meaningful competitive game that needs an economy they don't have. They should have stuck to unbalanced shithole mess.

[Rendakor]

They're just trying to avoid infinite power creep.

[luckton]

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/whispers-of-the-old-gods/

Finally, the hentai expansion arrives. 

[Azuredream]

I just want new cards. It's been a while since LoE and it gets pretty tiresome playing against the same decks all the time.