Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 02:09:34 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Diablo 3  |  Topic: Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 34 35 [36] 37 38 ... 40 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls  (Read 366885 times)
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #1225 on: June 26, 2014, 09:05:11 PM

So what's up with all the buffs to Wizard damage spells? I never felt like Disintegrate, Familiar, Meteor or Hydras were underpowered.

they plateaued hard around t3. i got around it with +55 arcane damage and a slorak's madness plus entropy, as well as being built around archon.

the buff will be insane, to be sure.
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #1226 on: June 26, 2014, 09:06:15 PM

 well  .. insane in the sense of making standard middle of the road wizard spender dps much more competitive.
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6711

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #1227 on: June 26, 2014, 10:17:51 PM

I'm guessing it's part of the stated goal of buffing all classes up to the level of WDs. And Wiz's are quite a long way behind WD's atm, more than would be addressed with the minor changes to Firebirds set.

Also, some dev posting about Ramalandi's Gift:

Quote
That said, here's how Ramalandi's Gift is currently intended to work. This is all with the caveat that it's still under development, and potentially subject to change:

    It will add a socket to an unsocketed weapon
    It only works on weapons
    It will work on enchanted weapons, so long as they don't have a socket
    It effectively adds an item affix in the form of a socket

    The added socket provided by Ramaladni's Gift cannot be enchanted.
    You cannot use Ramaladni's on a weapon more than once.
    Similarly, you cannot use Ramaladni's on a weapon that already has a socket.

You can, however:

    Replace a natural socket on a weapon with another primary stat (like VIT or STR or INT), and then use Ramaladni's after.
    Replace a re-rolled socket on a weapon with another primary stat (like VIT or STR or INT), and then use Ramaladni's Gift after.
    Enchant a weapon after a socket has been added using Ramaladni's Gift. You just won't be able to re-roll another socket on that particular weapon.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 10:27:51 PM by apocrypha »

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035


Reply #1228 on: June 26, 2014, 11:48:00 PM

Also, I just fucking dusted a LOT of legendaries because of lack of unique powers.

And now they're adding them.  Angel Hair Braid is particularly fucking annoying.

Appearently the new properties are not retro-active.  Old legendaries will stay the same, and only new ones will drop with the new Properties.   Kind of sucks, cause i just got an almost perfectly rolled pair of Depth Diggers yesterday.

And yeah, the change to OOE for monks would probably be needed.  I am not 100% sure how diablo does its Damage reduction sequence, but I believe it reduces damage first through Armor, then through resistance, and then through specials (like reduced damage from elites).   Since monks will be getting a shitload of armor from Dex the same way Barbs / Crusaders do from strength, their base reduction from armor is going to go up by a good chunk.  If their reduction from reisists stayed the same as well, the overall survivability boost would be insane.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 11:51:32 PM by SurfD »

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #1229 on: June 26, 2014, 11:49:15 PM

oh, fuckshit. i did not notice really the 30 AP cost for starting to cast disintegrate or AT.

nevermind, that's shitballs. ow.
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035


Reply #1230 on: June 27, 2014, 12:01:51 AM

I'm guessing it's part of the stated goal of buffing all classes up to the level of WDs. And Wiz's are quite a long way behind WD's atm, more than would be addressed with the minor changes to Firebirds set.
Arent witchdoctors only broken because of a few nastily effective synergies with passives + a couple of specific legendaries?

Like, for example, I am currently running a PetDoctor, and simply having Mask of Joram and Taskers causes my damage to skyrocket like nuts (+50% attack speed and +80-100% damage) simply from two items.  Throw the +50% pets damage Passive, and the one that spam spawns Fetishes, and as long as i dont run into an elite pack right inside the door, I can comfortably survive in T4 without having a single set item once my fetish swarm has time to ramp up.  Just assorted legendaries with decent stats carry me along easily.

Not sure how well I would faire if i tried to swap over to a SpellDoctor, but I saw a few of them in T4 who seemed to have similar gear to me doing well.

Honestly, I think they need a few more Viable set builds, for some other classes.  I mean, pretty much every single barbarian I have run into in the last 2 weeks is running Immortal Kings + the Earth set and just spamming Earthquakes everywhere.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Brennik
Terracotta Army
Posts: 93


Reply #1231 on: June 27, 2014, 12:47:07 AM

Yea, the wizard "buffs" are really not buffs with those AP costs. Luckily it's the first version of the patch and stuff's going to change.
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6711

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #1232 on: June 27, 2014, 12:47:33 AM

Yeah, Pet Doctors do benefit greatly from the Jeram/T&T combo, but Dot Docs are also very good with the Jade set, if a lot more tricky to play. Either of those options comfortably outperforms most other class builds though, which is why I like it that Blizz have said they want to buff other classes (presumably taking common/effective gear combos into account) to match that, rather than nerfing WD's (or their gear).

I absolutely agree that there should be more viable high-Torment builds for all classes. In T6 all you see are cookie-cutter builds with their efficiency varying only by dint of how close to perfectly rolled their gear is. Some classes (like Barbs) are worse than others, definitely.

Below T4 there's plenty of build diversity, above T5 almost none.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #1233 on: June 27, 2014, 01:40:42 AM

I'm one of the few wizards who stuck it out and locked myself into an arcane based /4ele build

i did great at it (though it required insane gear) but this may just fuckhose me.
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #1234 on: June 27, 2014, 02:07:31 AM

The wizard changes are a fix to an old problem that no longer exists.

When the expansion first launched, wizards were commonly viewed as overpowered. They had more stacking % bonuses than any other class, and they spent almost all their time using resource consumers rather than builders because of their very fast regen rates, arcane power on crit, and the very low cost of the consumers. These changes fix that issue by bringing their spammable consumers up to the same cost levels as other builds.

Unfortunately, the game has changed significantly since then - at the higher T levels, those abilities just don't do enough damage compared to other classes & builds, and it's forced wizards into MM fire builds, perma arcon builds or (if insanely lucky enough to get one) wand of woe builds.

Hopefully they will realise this and fix it, because after monks wizards are generally considered the weakest class at the highest torment levels now outside of those lucky fe with certain ultra-rare gear pieces.
rattran
Moderator
Posts: 4257

Unreasonable


Reply #1235 on: June 27, 2014, 07:39:34 AM

I've got +59% arcane and Sloraks for 28% disintegrate, and t3 is the highest I can manage.
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #1236 on: June 27, 2014, 07:46:36 AM

Exactly - I'm in the same boat. Meanwhile, my WD just muches through T4 and even T5 with half the amount of time I've spent on my wizard.

The change son test make the WD even sillier - god knows why they did it, but they basically doubled the amount of pets that can be hitting a mob at once now. Those fetishes just destroy everything!
Pennilenko
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3472


Reply #1237 on: June 27, 2014, 07:48:05 AM

Although I have been experimenting with different wizard skills, I found that my gear wont let me do anything above t4 solo. That also is me dying quite a bit in t4.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #1238 on: June 27, 2014, 08:46:45 AM

Frost Orb Wizard here, can handle T4/T5. Rolled a nat 20 to save against patch notes.
Pennilenko
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3472


Reply #1239 on: June 27, 2014, 08:55:38 AM

Frost Orb Wizard here, can handle T4/T5. Rolled a nat 20 to save against patch notes.

Yeah, I borrowed your build and am doing better but my gear isn't as nice as yours yet so I am still stuck on t4.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #1240 on: June 27, 2014, 09:00:19 AM

I haven't really tried it because I'm sure my efficiency would tank, but I imagine once I craft up and reroll these last few slots, I could tear through T6 pretty well (need to finish crafting Aughild's set and reroll my RORG CritDmg slot more).
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440

2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


WWW
Reply #1241 on: June 27, 2014, 09:03:50 AM

I'm guessing it's part of the stated goal of buffing all classes up to the level of WDs. And Wiz's are quite a long way behind WD's atm,

How long have I been gone?  This sounds like "All restaurants are Taco Bell".

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #1242 on: June 27, 2014, 11:24:32 AM

Hmmm. My WD can function fine on T4 without any of the aforementioned gear and without using fetishes. So I wouldn't just chalk it up to a few gear things making the class work.

It's a creeping death/pet build with the only particularly significant piece of gear in terms of special bonuses being a Queztalcoatl. I do have a lot of +fire, but I'm also running a couple non-fire abilities.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #1243 on: June 27, 2014, 07:28:49 PM

WD's with a few pieces of the right gear can hurl themselves all the way up to T6 with an unparalleled ease. It's pretty neat.
Pagz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 490

I AM GOING TO WRESTLE THIS BEAR WITH MY BARE HANDS!


Reply #1244 on: June 28, 2014, 11:30:17 PM

From the official forum:

Preparation (Punishment) was creating less than ideal gameplay by encouraging the conversion of Discipline to direct DPS. The byproduct of this was Demon Hunters frequently finding themselves without their defensive or utility skills, often resulting in more frequent character death. To address this, we are reworking this rune to no longer cost Discipline, but have a 20 second cooldown.

This has to be the stupidest reasoning I have ever seen. Demon hunters are playing their class like glass cannons (which we are) so lets remove the ability to do more damage faster so they can be more tanky (we can't).

While this change may initially seem severe, it has several major benefits we hope players will take the opportunity to explore and experiment with:

    All Discipline is now reserved for defensive and utility skills, encouraging Demon Hunters to take greater advantage of these skills.

Which we used to, until they nerfed them into the ground because we used them too much, and now they're complaining we don't use them?
    Nightstalker will feel less mandatory in conjunction with Punishment, freeing up a Passive slot in many builds.
All our passives are useless, we were using it because what else would we possibly use?
    If you choose to keep Preparation (Punishment) in your build, the cooldown corresponds with roughly how long it would take to regenerate the appropriate amount of Discipline (unless you had a large amount of Resource Cost Reduction).
Someone posted on the official forums that the bat companion regenerates faster then this cooldown, so why even bother.
    Cooldown Reduction is now a more attractive stat, and this may open up new CDR-focused builds.
We have two abilities on cooldowns, and neither of them use our resource, so what does Punishment have to do with anything? One of the abilities cooldown is reduced to nothing from set peices, so why make a CDR build for one ability and a rune of an ability?

It's just frustrating because instead of fixing the problem of demon hunters not using defensive abilities by making them attractive options, they're moving an ability most high level demon hunters use. Why is not using defensive abilities a problem anyway when there's little to no death penalty? People are playing demon hunters like every other class in the game (one resource only), that should be more of a hint about game design to blizzard then anything else.

I'm also bitter because now I can't infinitely Vault everywhere, which was possibly the most defensive ability demon hunters had.

Oh also someone posted the new Hellfire Amulet unique ability is that it gives you a random class specific passive, which could be interesting.
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035


Reply #1245 on: June 29, 2014, 04:10:01 AM

WD's with a few pieces of the right gear can hurl themselves all the way up to T6 with an unparalleled ease. It's pretty neat.
Might have to re-work some of my passives (not sure I can without sacrificing way too much dps), or hunt up some better gear with hard passive defense bonuses (Blackthorns or Aughilds or a neck with Reduce damage from Elites), but I tried jumping up from T4 to T5 and I just seem to be REALLY fucking squishy at that level.

I suppose I could throw on a Ukapian Serpent Mojo for the 25-30 ish pet damage absorb, but then I take a fairly signifigant hit to my DPS over my current mojo.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Stewie
Terracotta Army
Posts: 439


Reply #1246 on: July 07, 2014, 01:08:51 PM

I can run t3 with my wiz in my sleep, t4 is pretty easy, t5 not so much.

Im using TF and Mirroball. MM/Wave of force (heat wave)  http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/stinkfist-1403/Stinkfist/45026125

I just got a cindercoat, but its a shit version. If I could get a decent one and decent helm, I'd feel comfortable taking a shot at t5 regularly. I also have some room to grow with other gear.

Professional Forum Lurker.
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035


Reply #1247 on: July 07, 2014, 07:59:29 PM

Although I have been experimenting with different wizard skills, I found that my gear wont let me do anything above t4 solo. That also is me dying quite a bit in t4.
Do you have a pair of Unity Rings + a "Your follower can not die" follower token?  Blanket 50% damage reduction is almost mandatory for soloing High torment stuff.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #1248 on: July 07, 2014, 08:14:16 PM

Although I have been experimenting with different wizard skills, I found that my gear wont let me do anything above t4 solo. That also is me dying quite a bit in t4.
Do you have a pair of Unity Rings + a "Your follower can not die" follower token?  Blanket 50% damage reduction is almost mandatory for soloing High torment stuff.
Holy shit, that's sketchy and busted.
Ragnoros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1027


Reply #1249 on: July 07, 2014, 10:38:29 PM

The damage goes both ways, if your follower is standing in an arcane sentry you are taking 50% of that damage.

Owls are an example of evolution showing off. -Shannow

BattleTag - Ray#1555
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035


Reply #1250 on: July 08, 2014, 02:59:23 AM

The damage goes both ways, if your follower is standing in an arcane sentry you are taking 50% of that damage.
Far as I can tell, it doesnt.   When I equip the "your follower can't die" token on my Templar mook, he goes from being super squishy and dying to everything, to literally takeing NO DAMAGE that I can see.  The effect does not seem to be "he takes damage, but it can never kill him", rather it seems to be "he now takes no damage so he cant die".   The damage goes both ways part only seems to matter if other PLAYERS in your group have a unity ring on.  If you are soloing, Unity + Immortality Token for your follower appears to straight up offer you 50% damage reduction.

Thread on the Battle.net forums about it http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12312631159
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 03:09:00 AM by SurfD »

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Stewie
Terracotta Army
Posts: 439


Reply #1251 on: July 08, 2014, 07:08:44 AM

Using the unity rings, when a follower has a cannot die token they take no damage and therefore no damage is dealt to you and any damage you take, half is directed to your follower.

If you take that token off of your follower on higher torment levels you are going to have a bad time. The followers have shit for damage mitigation so they can be hit for very high amounts. So for example say a follower gets one shot for 2 million and their damage mitigation reduces that to 1.5 mil(ish) you would then take 750k of that. Any damage reduction you have will not apply. It only checks when the initial damage is dealt.

Is it sketchy and busted? meh its really only a benefit for solo players and when you get to t5/6 you really need to look at increasing your damage output to be able to farm these levels effectively which means using something like the Stone of Jordan, or some such. Also it takes 3 pretty hard to find items to make happen.


Professional Forum Lurker.
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035


Reply #1252 on: July 08, 2014, 10:47:15 PM

Maybe my luck has been pretty good with those particular drops so far then.  I currently have full set of the "Your follower has access to all abilities" tokens, and the Templar and Enchantress Immortality token.  I also have at least 4 unity rings in various flavours of Dex, Str and Int, all gathered over the last month or so.

I do agree on the damage thing though.  Since there seems to be a plateau for survival stats from what I can tell (nearly every other WD in higher torment levels I check profile links for seems to have roughly the same level of Armor / Resist all / Etc as my Witchdoctor, I can only conclude that the only reason I feel really squishy trying to move up to T5 is that they are killing shit much faster, so they dont need to "survive" nearly as long in dangerous situations.  Guess I just really need to work on min/maxing collecting +damage type affixes on ceartain gear slots and fine tuneing a few pieces of gear.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035


Reply #1253 on: July 09, 2014, 06:19:30 PM

Well, got my Agility Ring of Royal Grandeur, so now my Demonhunter has 6 Piece Marauders bonus, 3 Piece Natalias Bonus, 3 Piece Aughilds bonus, and 3 piece Blackthorns bonus.  Sadly most of my pieces are not optimally statted for a good balance of survivability so at the moment, while I can do T5 rifts, I am a total glass cannon.  Just about everything with an unavoidable damage effect (looking at you, fucking jailors) eats me alive.

That being said, I noticed something wierd on my character details sheet.  3 Piece Blackthorns + 3 Piece Aughilds should give me 25% reduced damage from elites.  However, my details number says 23.5%  Anyone got any idea if they start deminishing returns on that stat really early or something?

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #1254 on: July 09, 2014, 07:11:00 PM

It's multiplicative, not additive.

0.9 x 0.85 = 0.765
1 - 0.765 = 0.235

And there you are.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035


Reply #1255 on: July 09, 2014, 07:20:17 PM

Well that is just bizzare.  Do all the other % based modifiers work the same way?  I was pretty sure that stuff like +Elemental Damage % numbers combined additively on gear (20% +fire damage on weapon + 20% fire damage on Bracers = 40%).

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Tarami
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1980


Reply #1256 on: July 13, 2014, 09:44:16 PM

It does what it says on the tin, actually. It reduces damage by X %. Putting on an item with 10% reduction will reduce the damage by exactly 10%, regardless of what stats you have prior.

Diablo 3 has no hard-coded diminishing returns as far as I know. Why they look diminishing is due to math. For example, it takes X Armor to get 50 % damage reduction. Then it takes another X Armor to get 75%, because 50% -> 75 % halves the damage taken, same as 0% -> 50%. (Damage taken goes from 100% to 50% to 25%.)

The rule of thumb is that stats are linear in power and each slot can be considered individually. As above, if you had been right with your initial intuition, it would actually scale exponentially, because 98% -> 99% is just 1 percentage point but effectively a 50% reduction in damage.

- I'm giving you this one for free.
- Nothing's free in the waterworld.
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #1257 on: July 13, 2014, 11:46:29 PM

It does what it says on the tin, actually. It reduces damage by X %. Putting on an item with 10% reduction will reduce the damage by exactly 10%, regardless of what stats you have prior.

Diablo 3 has no hard-coded diminishing returns as far as I know. Why they look diminishing is due to math. For example, it takes X Armor to get 50 % damage reduction. Then it takes another X Armor to get 75%, because 50% -> 75 % halves the damage taken, same as 0% -> 50%. (Damage taken goes from 100% to 50% to 25%.)

The rule of thumb is that stats are linear in power and each slot can be considered individually. As above, if you had been right with your initial intuition, it would actually scale exponentially, because 98% -> 99% is just 1 percentage point but effectively a 50% reduction in damage.

Er, no. The rule of thumb is that % decreases are multiplicative with themselves, while % increases are additive. Two sources of +20% fire damage will end up with +40% fire damage, not +44%. However they do multiply with *different* % increases, so if you have +20% fire damage and +20% meteor increase your fire meteors will do 44% more.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4035


Reply #1258 on: July 14, 2014, 12:10:05 AM

Also, I am pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that Diablo does indeed have hard diminishing returns, it is just that in most scenarios you wont actually run into them.  Something like + damage modifiers after 110% or so start hitting diminishing returns.  But that requires you to get perfect rolls of something like +20% fire on literally every slot where it can possibly occur before you would encounter the hit.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Rokal
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1652


Reply #1259 on: August 25, 2014, 12:57:00 PM

Pages: 1 ... 34 35 [36] 37 38 ... 40 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Diablo 3  |  Topic: Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC