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Author Topic: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice  (Read 282985 times)
shiznitz
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the plural of mangina


Reply #1015 on: December 07, 2015, 12:31:01 PM

Yup, X2 is still my favourite super hero movie, with Nightcrawler's attack on the White House being the best superhero scene ever shot.

That was good but the sentinel battles in Future Past with the teleport/gating girl were better. It was gruesome, but watching Colossus torn in half...

I have never played WoW.
Fordel
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Reply #1016 on: December 07, 2015, 01:02:53 PM

Yup, X2 is still my favourite super hero movie, with Nightcrawler's attack on the White House being the best superhero scene ever shot.

That really is one of the greatest action sequences shot period. The main thing I love about Nightcrawler's attack on the white house isn't actually his actions, but the actions of all the secret service guards. USUALLY when you have situations like that, where the one badass person is taking on lots and lots of opponents, the opponents get jobbed and act very stupid in order to make the badass seem more badass then he actually is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLOMdddg11A
In this scene though, the Secret Service is doing everything right. There's no buffoonery or going at him one at a time or holding back on trying to shoot him. The moment the first guard see's something potentially dangerous, he goes for his weapon then calls it in. Then the next guard hears the call and is immediately on alert and calls in his report of 'multiple suspects'. There's no delay, all the guards spring into action, all those plans that have been drilled and re-drilled instantly kick in. Cover this exit, clear that corridor, lock-down the office, secure the adjacent rooms. They move in teams, they constantly communicate and they coordinate with efficiency and precision. You are left with the impression that if any mundane person tried this, that no matter how well trained or equipped, they would never make it past the first hallway. The Secret Service is just that good and Nightcrawler only makes it as far as he does BECAUSE he can instantly teleport out of the way of all the bullets and catch all his opponents entirely off guard at all times.

Not because the Secret Service guards are too busy playing a card game to see him on a security monitor or something equally stupid.



and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Ironwood
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Reply #1017 on: December 07, 2015, 01:10:19 PM

Hadn't seen that in a while.  Yes, it's a really cool scene.

But the best Superhero one ?  I'd have to think.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Threash
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Reply #1018 on: December 07, 2015, 01:51:21 PM

Yup, X2 is still my favourite super hero movie, with Nightcrawler's attack on the White House being the best superhero scene ever shot.

That really is one of the greatest action sequences shot period. The main thing I love about Nightcrawler's attack on the white house isn't actually his actions, but the actions of all the secret service guards. USUALLY when you have situations like that, where the one badass person is taking on lots and lots of opponents, the opponents get jobbed and act very stupid in order to make the badass seem more badass then he actually is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLOMdddg11A
In this scene though, the Secret Service is doing everything right. There's no buffoonery or going at him one at a time or holding back on trying to shoot him. The moment the first guard see's something potentially dangerous, he goes for his weapon then calls it in. Then the next guard hears the call and is immediately on alert and calls in his report of 'multiple suspects'. There's no delay, all the guards spring into action, all those plans that have been drilled and re-drilled instantly kick in. Cover this exit, clear that corridor, lock-down the office, secure the adjacent rooms. They move in teams, they constantly communicate and they coordinate with efficiency and precision. You are left with the impression that if any mundane person tried this, that no matter how well trained or equipped, they would never make it past the first hallway. The Secret Service is just that good and Nightcrawler only makes it as far as he does BECAUSE he can instantly teleport out of the way of all the bullets and catch all his opponents entirely off guard at all times.

Not because the Secret Service guards are too busy playing a card game to see him on a security monitor or something equally stupid.




And in the end they actually get a shot in and stop him.

I am the .00000001428%
KallDrexx
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Reply #1019 on: December 07, 2015, 07:32:10 PM

Back in college we had a proper surround sound system and we would always use that scene to test and show it off.
Lantyssa
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Reply #1020 on: December 08, 2015, 08:50:45 AM

I loved that scene because it showed just how effective Nightcrawler could be.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Khaldun
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Reply #1021 on: December 09, 2015, 04:09:13 AM

The stuff with Azrael in First Class built on that. A fast, combat-trained teleporter would be extraordinarily difficult to fight unless you were also superfast or couldn't just be pancaked by being dropped from 300 feet up. It's sort of the same thing as when writers really began to think about what a capable character with Kitty Pryde's powers could do after she began to be able to phase other people. Can't be stopped, can disrupt electronics at will, can pull you into a wall and let you die after it mingles with your body, can drag you to an air pocket a thousand feet underground and leave you there.

It would be interesting to see a superhero film that was all like that White House scene--about the powers played to their conceptual maximum against competent human combatants who have to think of some way to fight them.
Fordel
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Reply #1022 on: December 09, 2015, 09:37:02 AM

It would be a very short film depending on which powers were in play, both ways.

Like, the Speedsters and Telepaths, they can finish fights before they even start. There's no defense against it, not without magical Tech-Tech that doesn't exist.  Like the only defense against say the Telepaths would be people miles away watching security cameras and ordering air-strikes on any known telepath position, or maybe remotely release some kind of tear gas. That doesn't even work against the speedsters though, someone like Quicksilver is likely able to actually outrun the explosion even if he is caught unawares.

Conversely, most other supers, probably just dead or detained. Anyone who isn't bullet proof or has some ability to avoid/deflect bullets subconsciously is just dead.

Even otherwise really powerful ones like say Storm, for all her power she's still vulnerable to plain old bullets.

Wolverine? Filled with bullets till he passes out then chained up till they can find a way to kill him permanently.

Cyclops, Havok, Beast, Toad, Mystique? Angel? Iceman? Pyro? All dead.

Batman? Punisher? SUPER DUPER dead in the 'real world'.  why so serious?


Even people like Magneto, Nightcrawler and Kitty. When they are focused and looking or a fight, near untouchable. When they aren't though? Can Kitty phase in her sleep? Does she subconsciously and instinctively phase the moment she feels a bullet touch her skin? Or does she get offed by a sniper while she is sipping a latte?




and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
NowhereMan
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Reply #1023 on: December 09, 2015, 02:01:58 PM

Speedsters could come under that too, if they're relaxing and talking to friends then a sniper from far enough away with a supersonic bullet could manage to catch them. Provided they don't actually see the bullet, they don't get the sound of the shot until the bullet's already passed them. Unless they're at permanent super speed, they need to sleep or relax from time to time too.

So basically all fights would come down to catching the super asleep and unawares then shooting them in the head from a great distance.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Ironwood
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Reply #1024 on: December 09, 2015, 02:20:43 PM

If you don't do that, you're dead though.  Even some of the more ridiculous mutants are utterly deadly when you think about what the powers could DO in real life.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Khaldun
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Reply #1025 on: December 09, 2015, 03:06:40 PM

A telekinetic who didn't need to see a target could invisibly kill people just by ripping their aorta, for example. Someone with a strong force field or invulnerability could just carry a backpack full of grenades and walk through the explosions.
etc.
Ironwood
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Reply #1026 on: December 10, 2015, 01:38:42 AM

Yeah.  What always galls me is how little imagination the original vision had.  We have ICEMAN !!  He throws SNOWBALLS !!!

Not, like I would do, freeze your bladder from the inside.  Sure, comics code and whatnot, but it's like these chaps didn't THINK.   why so serious?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
NowhereMan
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Reply #1027 on: December 10, 2015, 03:30:08 AM

Isn't Iceman now an Omega level mutant since they figured his powers basically require him being able to violate a few laws of thermodynamics and only explicable through him having some level of control over things at a nonphysical (for our 4 dimensional physics) level? Sometimes it's better if the writers don't think things through so much.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Ironwood
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Reply #1028 on: December 10, 2015, 03:36:04 AM

Yes, NOW.  But let's be honest ;  the idea that he can coat himself with solid armor and project spikes of razor sharpness should really have occurred so much sooner.

Also, he's gay now.  But not really, just in case it offends.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Khaldun
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Reply #1029 on: December 10, 2015, 06:34:47 AM

They basically did Iceman right with Elijah Snow on Planetary--recognizing that he was incredibly powerful and that most of the really powerful things he could do were subtle rather than sliding around on ice slides through the city.
Ironwood
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Reply #1030 on: December 10, 2015, 06:45:03 AM

Not familiar.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Khaldun
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Reply #1031 on: December 10, 2015, 08:11:26 AM

I think you'd actually love Planetary. http://www.amazon.com/Planetary-Omnibus-Warren-Ellis/dp/1401242383

Elijah Snow is the central character--tough old Warren Ellis-dialogue guy who can reduce temperatures in anything down to frozen nitrogen-ish levels. He doesn't wear leotards and run around fighting villains in the streets, he doesn't shoot ice out of his hands. He just looks at something and makes it cold. So he doesn't fuck around if he needs to use his power rather than his mind or his organization's resources. He just freezes the water in someone's body and kicks him into a zillion pieces. Or in one memorable case, freezes the liquid in a guy's genitals while he's at the urinal and threatens to kick him unless he gets the information he needs.
Fordel
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Reply #1032 on: December 10, 2015, 05:51:28 PM

Didn't Iceman learn to use his powers a billion times better because like Emma Frost took over his body and went 'Jesus you really have no idea how to use your abilities, here watch *turns into a Ice Elemental*'

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Merusk
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Reply #1033 on: December 10, 2015, 07:05:24 PM

Yes, NOW.  But let's be honest ;  the idea that he can coat himself with solid armor and project spikes of razor sharpness should really have occurred so much sooner.

Also, he's gay now.  But not really, just in case it offends.


It's almost as if they were written as escapism fantasies for preteen boys sometimes!  

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
HaemishM
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Reply #1034 on: December 10, 2015, 07:24:24 PM

That's no excuse for shitty shit stories like the one Ironwood was referencing.

Ironwood
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Reply #1035 on: December 11, 2015, 03:23:24 AM

Yes, NOW.  But let's be honest ;  the idea that he can coat himself with solid armor and project spikes of razor sharpness should really have occurred so much sooner.

Also, he's gay now.  But not really, just in case it offends.


It's almost as if they were written as escapism fantasies for preteen boys sometimes!  

The preteen boy I grew up with would be horrified if the hero wasn't wielding razor sharp blades, because fuck knows they all did.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
jgsugden
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Reply #1036 on: January 05, 2016, 03:45:40 PM

Daredevil Season 2 Marathon or BvS.... Such a tough decision ... Not.

http://comicbook.com/2016/01/04/daredevil-season-2-to-debut-march-25th-against-batman-v-superman/

(Yes, this might be false data about the DD release date).

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Evildrider
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Reply #1037 on: January 06, 2016, 05:57:16 PM

Wouldn't surprise me if Netflix dropped it on that date.  Marvel doesn't have control over release dates to Netflix.  I am sure they work with them, but Netflix has final say.  Also Netflix doing this could just be a poke back at Warner Brothers since they pulled all their movie content from Netflix a couple years ago.
Merusk
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Reply #1038 on: February 11, 2016, 09:01:26 AM

Final Trailer is out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cle_rKBpZ28

That block...

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Khaldun
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Reply #1039 on: February 11, 2016, 09:40:31 AM

I have to admit that the opening bit with Batman and Alfred is possibly the best cinematic realization of iconic comic-book Batman that I've seen.
Soln
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Reply #1040 on: February 11, 2016, 09:46:25 AM

Yes that was pretty good.  If there's enough moments like that strung between the hoo-haa it may be worth watching.
Ironwood
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Reply #1041 on: February 11, 2016, 10:12:27 AM

Nope.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Malakili
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Reply #1042 on: February 11, 2016, 10:16:37 AM

Still too much "Do you bleed?"
jgsugden
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Reply #1043 on: February 11, 2016, 12:02:41 PM

I think this is going to be a bit like Mr. Toad's Wild Ride at Disneyland.  If you go into it trying to appreciate it on a cerebral level, you'll leave disappointed.  However, if you get massively high to the point you can't follow the 'story', you'll have a real good time. 

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
HaemishM
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Reply #1044 on: February 11, 2016, 01:11:21 PM

I like the bits with Batman. The Superman/Wonder Woman bits I could go either way on - not enough context in those clips to tell. The Lex Luthor bits though? FUCK THAT. Those bits look really goddamn terrible.

Evildrider
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Reply #1045 on: February 11, 2016, 01:53:43 PM

Batfleck is looking good.. Meh to everything else.
Merusk
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Reply #1046 on: February 11, 2016, 01:57:43 PM

Nope.


I'm generally with you, still. WB finally got a marketing department for this and the Suicide Squad but I'm not willing to shell-out real money for this.

I've got a Movie Pass so I'll wind-up seeing it as part of the 5-6 movies I'll see that month as it will be "free" but only in 2d and not IMAX3DMEGABUX.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Fordel
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Reply #1047 on: February 11, 2016, 02:28:19 PM

I want to be wrong, but this still looks like a steaming pile.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Ironwood
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Reply #1048 on: February 11, 2016, 03:22:18 PM

Note that the trailer is STILL banging on about the Batman Superman fight and, even worse, some of the new shots are just directly lifted from Dark Knight Returns.  Again.

It's starting to look more and more like one good fight scene is all it's going to have.  As some of you pointed out, the rest is just retarded because, you know, baddie is utterly fucking lame and Superman is still just Grimdark Superman.  If this was a Batman movie, maybe, because this trailer at least attempts the right 'Batman' notes.  But pay for this Snyder shite ?  No thanks.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Khaldun
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Reply #1049 on: February 11, 2016, 07:40:15 PM

I think what it is still showing me is this:

Batman v Superman is made out of

Zack Snyder's characteristic affectations, which are pretty much just as predictable as Tim Burton's but without the whimsy and visual imagination
WB corporate clueless "we have to have a big corporate strategery for our intellectual property" thing
Somebody who read Frank Miller's DKR and thought it seemed cool but ignored that it depends on the characters having known each other for thirty years
Somebody else who realized halfway through production that Batman sells more tickets than Superman so make the movie more about him
Somebody who had the cool idea to make Lex Luthor be like Mark Zuckerberg and then somebody else said he should be like Heath Ledger's Joker and they said, "We can do both!"
A visit from the grimdark fairy
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