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Author Topic: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice  (Read 282981 times)
eldaec
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Reply #245 on: August 26, 2013, 03:04:40 AM

Plus this is DC, not marvel. So the second string characters are just awful. Also this bubble is already bursting. Marvel will be good to avengers 2. They might eke it out to Avengers 3, but after that they are going to need to go on the back burner for a while.

Without Snyder, without Affleck, even without Superman, this whole concept is a moneypit. The flames will be amusing though.

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Velorath
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Reply #246 on: August 26, 2013, 03:10:16 AM

It is a Snyder movie... and a contract for much more (some rumors saying up to 13 movies).  The reports are unconfirmed (AFAIK), but WB is reportedly locking their actors in before the first movie is made so that they don't have any RDJ/Iron Man issues. 

They're building a foundation on moldy Alffuck wood.

Even if Affleck is good, even if Snyder does good, how many times can you go see these cats before it goes stale?  There's a reason for trilogies.  Tell an epic story then shut it down.  I love RDJ and Iron Man, but it was time for it to end. 

I've thought that before with various TV shows, comics, movies, games, etc..., and then somebody comes along and takes a series that I thought had spent itself and does something really fucking good with it. Somebody could have come along that could have hit Iron Man 3 or Dark Knight Rises out of the park, but that's not what we ended up getting. Doesn't mean it couldn't have been done right though.
Ironwood
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Reply #247 on: August 26, 2013, 03:42:16 AM

I think the problem with that is that, actually, sometimes the guy doing it are mired in what has come before.  Let's be honest, if Rises hadn't tried stupidly to mash Knightfall and DK Returns together, it would probably have been a much better film.  Same with Iron Man 3 which tried to do Extremis and Armor Wars and kinda ended up with a big pile of Poo.

Doing something 'New' and 'Spectacular' sometimes requires you to leave the source the fuck alone.

That's just my smelly opinion though.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Khaldun
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Reply #248 on: August 26, 2013, 07:00:14 AM

What's interesting is that Avengers did well by respecting the source material with some slight tweaks and updating--not so much a particular storyline, but the classic character bits like "puny god" and so on. Mostly when you see comic-book movies, it's hard to get away from the impression that the director and the studio executives are still kind of embarassed by the source material, that somehow it just won't fly if they don't do something to make it more "realistic" and "mature".
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #249 on: August 26, 2013, 07:27:29 AM

Thing is, "Rises" was probably the least realistic of the Nolan films and whose scope greatly exceeded that of the other two.  IM3 was a bad case of hollywood getting too invested in a property and really felt like a lot of cooks adding spice where it wasn't needed.

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Ironwood
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Reply #250 on: August 26, 2013, 07:29:36 AM

Again, I think it was the least realistic precisely because it lost that focus.  It tried to do too much and it came off stupid.  Like, 8 years of nothing, sore leg, broken back, Magic Rope Healing, etc.

Iron Man 3 went further by actually devaluing the Concept of Iron Man.  The more you thought about 'Multiple Drone Suits', the less invested you were in Tony because, Holy Fuck, he did it all very, very stupid if he could do all that.  Drone Better.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
jgsugden
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Reply #251 on: August 26, 2013, 07:32:12 AM

You can tell phenomenal stories with characters that have beena aound for thousands of comics. As such, I think it ridiculous to say you can't make 5, 10 or 20 great  movies with the same characters.  What you need is continuity, passion and talent.  We certainly can get thousands of hours of great TV out of a series like Breaking Bad on TV. I believe you could do the same in Movies with the right people in charge.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
eldaec
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Reply #252 on: August 26, 2013, 11:35:10 AM

Scope at the end of Begins or DK was pretty broad. They both were a total destruction of the city thing. DKR hadn't earned it, and didn't thematically make any particular sense in the way both prior films did.

DKR is a weird film in that I thought they did a perfectly good job with batman, bane, Catwoman, Gordon, Robin and even Talia as characters. Just the story makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 11:38:25 AM by eldaec »

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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
jgsugden
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Reply #253 on: August 26, 2013, 02:04:39 PM

Scope at the end of Begins or DK was pretty broad. They both were a total destruction of the city thing. DKR hadn't earned it, and didn't thematically make any particular sense in the way both prior films did.

DKR is a weird film in that I thought they did a perfectly good job with batman, bane, Catwoman, Gordon, Robin and even Talia as characters. Just the story makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Although there have been many reports to the contrary, I believe that DKR would have been a vastly different movie had Ledger survivied.  The story the movie tells - Batman coming out of retirement, Gordon retiring, gangs taking over Gotham, etc ... comes right out of the comics version of DKR... and the villian there (for the first half of the story) was the Joker. 

I believe that had Ledger survived, the movie would have had the Joker storyline from DKR woven into a simplified version of the movie. 

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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Reply #254 on: August 26, 2013, 02:16:17 PM

None of the Batman movies have done much with recurring villains (with the exception of Scarecrow showing up in all three Nolan films).  Villain-of-the-week probably seems more exciting, especially given that each Batman film incarnation only gets a few movies before it's put out to pasture, but I think it's kind of a waste to set these villains up only to never use them again.

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jgsugden
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Reply #255 on: August 26, 2013, 02:26:23 PM

Considering the amazing buzz before his passing from critics and then the awards following his death, I doubt the studio would have allowed Batman 3 to not be able to advertise the %!$# out of having the Joker as the villian.

And, looking forward, they're talking about a 6 picture deal (reportedly) for Cranston as Lex Luthor.  These comics movies are now being looked at as serials with recurring characters locked in... not as a 'monster of the week' deal like we saw in the Keaton/Kilmer/Clooney era.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
sickrubik
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Reply #256 on: August 26, 2013, 02:28:11 PM

Keep in mind those deals are structured in that way so they can show up, even for 5 minutes in whatever movie they want/need. So, Cranston having that kind of deal doesn't mean he'll be the big bad in all of the films.

beer geek.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #257 on: August 26, 2013, 02:44:09 PM

Yeah, these are for a given number of "appearances", not major roles.  Could be anything from a cameo or even a walk-on through a supporting role to effective co-star, it depends on the exact terms.  I don't think Affleck signed up to make 13 Batman movies, rather to be a common character that appears briefly in all or nearly all of the DC movies.

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jgsugden
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Reply #258 on: August 26, 2013, 02:44:35 PM

There is a lot of speculation into how the Marvel contracts work, but we don't really know the details of those - and have not even had a clue as to what the DC contracts might contain.  There are union rules governing some ways in which those contracts can be written, but there are still a lot of possibilities.

Regardless, the lengths on these contracts has yet to be confirmed, so who the %@$# knows what will happen (other than Affleck being less intimidating the Adam West).

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Pezzle
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Reply #259 on: August 26, 2013, 06:42:25 PM

Adam West as the next batman would get me to the theatre.  That is more than I can say for that jobber Affleck.
jgsugden
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Reply #260 on: August 27, 2013, 08:33:04 AM

Here is the pitch: Tim Burton does a movie revival of the Adam West Batman.  It maintains continuity and feel with the series, telling a campy and surreal version of Dark Knight returns featuring Brandon Routh as a Donner Film continuity Superman.  Mandatory low budget to keep the feel right.

That is a Superman/Batman film that I'd be eager to see.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Samwise
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Reply #261 on: August 27, 2013, 09:25:41 AM

Adam West in Frank Miller's DKR was exactly what I was thinking too.  I also would love to see that.

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sickrubik
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Reply #262 on: August 27, 2013, 09:29:21 AM

I think Adam West is even a bit too old for that at this rate.

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jgsugden
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Reply #263 on: August 27, 2013, 10:16:48 AM

If he dies while filming, so be it.  That would make excellent footage.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Khaldun
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Reply #264 on: August 27, 2013, 01:25:33 PM

"Sorry...old...chum...can't...go...on."

On this slight derail, by the way, I enthusiastically recommend the comic DC is publishing now that's riffing off of the old Batman TV series. It's great. It might be the only comic that DC is publishing at the moment that is great.
sickrubik
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Reply #265 on: August 27, 2013, 02:22:17 PM


beer geek.
naum
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Reply #266 on: August 27, 2013, 03:43:11 PM

"Sorry...old...chum...can't...go...on."

Holy slipped disc Batman!

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Shannow
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Reply #267 on: August 27, 2013, 05:39:19 PM


Which just goes to show you trailers can make any pile of crap look good.

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Reply #268 on: August 27, 2013, 06:46:28 PM

Plus this is DC, not marvel. So the second string characters are just awful.

Marvel's second stringers being so good is the reason why we're getting a film featuring a space raccoon and a movie dedicated to understanding Hank Pym, a man who builds killer robots and size-shifts, yet still manages to keep "boring" as his main superpower.

Both universes have their fair share of A-listers and dud characters. What's more important is the team behind the film - in the right hands of a writer, director and producer, even characters like Freak the Power Brother could be a must see film.

Which is why I care less about Affleck being Batman than I do about Snyder being director.

Evildrider
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Reply #269 on: August 27, 2013, 07:24:08 PM

Ant-Man is not Hank Pym in the new movie. 
Khaldun
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Reply #270 on: August 27, 2013, 07:42:15 PM

Nor, apparently, does whomever he is build killer robots.
sickrubik
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Reply #271 on: August 27, 2013, 08:31:02 PM

Wait... The ant man movie is indeed Pym. I'm a bit confused

beer geek.
Evildrider
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Reply #272 on: August 27, 2013, 08:38:53 PM

Wait... The ant man movie is indeed Pym. I'm a bit confused

Pym is in Ant-Man, but Ant-Man is the Scott Lang version.
jgsugden
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Reply #273 on: August 27, 2013, 09:31:08 PM

There are a lot of rumors about Ant-man, but it will likely have Pym, Land and Van Dyne... However, the script is as far rom complete as Avengers was when the recently released storyboards were made - you know, the ones with the Wasp, an evil JARVIS, and a cyborg fighting Iron Man in a jungle.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
eldaec
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Reply #274 on: August 28, 2013, 01:09:49 AM

Plus this is DC, not marvel. So the second string characters are just awful.

Marvel's second stringers being so good is the reason why we're getting a film featuring a space raccoon and a movie dedicated to understanding Hank Pym, a man who builds killer robots and size-shifts, yet still manages to keep "boring" as his main superpower.

Both universes have their fair share of A-listers and dud characters. What's more important is the team behind the film - in the right hands of a writer, director and producer, even characters like Freak the Power Brother could be a must see film.

Which is why I care less about Affleck being Batman than I do about Snyder being director.

DC's A list consists of Batman, and maybe the Flash. Superman has some excellent PR but remains a terrible character to tell a story about.

Marvel are definitely into overreach but they have far more viable material even without access to spiderman and xmen.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #275 on: August 28, 2013, 06:51:06 AM

DC does have an 800lb gorilla in the room too. One of their most widely known characters that no one will touch.

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Miasma
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Reply #276 on: August 28, 2013, 07:08:23 AM

Who's that?
K9
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Reply #277 on: August 28, 2013, 07:11:43 AM

Aquaman?

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tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #278 on: August 28, 2013, 07:32:31 AM

Wonder Woman. Ya, it will be hard to get her right with our modern sensibilities.

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Riggswolfe
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Reply #279 on: August 28, 2013, 07:41:14 AM

Tazelbain beat me to it. Definitely Wonder Woman which is a shame, I've been a fan of her since Linda Carter. Then again, that's probably less to do with the character and more to do with Linda Carter in spandex.

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