Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Samwise]

Do we know for certain that Cavill is Superman?  Because if they get Damon instead this will be movie of the year.

[Pennilenko]

...lip charisma...

[sickrubik]

I'm a bit ambivalent. I like Affleck as both actor and director. I think he'll be fine as Bruce Wayne. I'm not entirely sure he'll be good as Batman but I think that's going to be down more to the director than the actor as to how he's played.

I think this is more about who gets to direct the Justice League movie than it is who gets to play Batman. The studio likely wanted an actor who was willing to commit a good bit to their franchises - more than most actors will want to do. Affleck probably said "let me direct the Justice League and you can pay me less and I'll sign up for umpteen pictures." And if he directs Justice League, that is a good thing.

As for Affleck in Daredevil, the problems with that movie had fuckall to do with who was playing the main character. That movie started going bad with the writer and director, went on into poor studio choices and ended with poor editing choices.

The Affleck director thing is not something that is happening. I actually like that idea of him directing that movie quite a lot now that you mention it, but it just seems like it would be a trainwreck of a time dealing with Snyder, etc during that kind of transition.


I don't disagree with you about Daredevil though. I thought he was fine in it. It was just a shitty movie. He was hardly the reason for it being shitty.

Do we know for certain that Cavill is Superman?  Because if they get Damon instead this will be movie of the year.

Cavill is Sups again, yes.

Damon = Robin, clearly.

[Shannow]

Someone pointed out that the internet chucked a massive wobbly when Heath Ledger was named as the Joker....

[jgsugden]

You can argue that Affleck was not the main problem with Daredevil, but he was a problem.  I'm sorry, but the guy has no force of personality at all, and Batman and Daredevil are all about force of personality.  You need an actor that can stare down a foe in a way that gives the audience shivers - not giggles.

Seriously, can you think of a single moment in anything he has ever done where he was (*in any way*) threatening? He's played a super hero, a fallen angel, a driller/astronaught, a marine trained CIA operative, and Basketball Player #10 in Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the movie).  He has had plenty of opportunity to show us that he can intimidate.  Was there ever a single moment when he evoked 'bad-ass'?  Is there ever a moment that you don't think he'd be the guy to blink first?  

Seriously - Hugh Jackman is a singing and dancing fool when he wants to be, but is there any doubt about which one of those two can summon more intensity?

And before we go down that road: This isn't a Michael Keaton situation.  Keaton wasn't an obvious choice for Batman, but he did well.  Keaton doesn't have that threatening face, but he could be intense.  He could summon that intensity and be the Batman.  Affleck has never shown the fire that it takes.

I'd much rather they went with a fairly unknown guy than go with the big name that doesn't have the mettle and spirit to be Batman.  

[Khaldun]

Affleck didn't help Daredevil, but I agree that movie had way bigger problems than him.

Damon should be cast as Lex Luthor.

[Thrawn]

Someone pointed out that the internet chucked a massive wobbly when Heath Ledger was named as the Joker....

I could be completely wrong since I'm not going to look into it, but I remember the Ledger stuff being more like "Huh, odd choice, we will see what happens." where Affleck is just more outright "NOPE".

I think I'm a rarity that I didn't like the way Joker was written in TDK.  Ledger's acting was great, but the character didn't feel like the Joker to me.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Affleck can direct, he can even act but he can't carry a movie and that people keep wanting him to be a leading man is ridiculous.

[sickrubik]

Someone pointed out that the internet chucked a massive wobbly when Heath Ledger was named as the Joker....

I could be completely wrong since I'm not going to look into it, but I remember the Ledger stuff being more like "Huh, odd choice, we will see what happens." where Affleck is just more outright "NOPE".

I think I'm a rarity that I didn't like the way Joker was written in TDK.  Ledger's acting was great, but the character didn't feel like the Joker to me.

You are completely wrong. There was a lot of homophobic shit especially, given Brokeback Mountain. His joker was the perfect joker for that more realistic/gritty universe.

[Margalis]

Affleck is just not a good actor. He's pretty much the same in every role, and while it works for some people it definitely doesn't work for him.

[jgsugden]

Ledger/Joker and Affuck/Batman are worlds apart.

First, the lashing against Ledger was there, but it wasn't overwhelming.  It was the usual minority backlash you see with any major casting. 

Second, Ledger had never really been called on to do that type of role and failed.  It was a situation where people could say, "I can't see how this will work."  It was not a situation in which you'd say, "I've seen this fail a number of times already."

[eldaec]

Affleck is just not a good actor. He's pretty much the same in every role, and while it works for some people it definitely doesn't work for him.

He's not just the same in every role, he's an angry and/or sulking young man with an overinflated ego in every role. Even in Argo.

Bruce Wayne could be played as a sulky man, but he can't really be played as inexperienced.

Someone pointed out that the internet chucked a massive wobbly when Heath Ledger was named as the Joker....

The only shit around Ledger was from unwashed idiots whose opinion people here generally give zero fucks about.

[01101010]

I'm a bit ambivalent. I like Affleck as both actor and director. I think he'll be fine as Bruce Wayne. I'm not entirely sure he'll be good as Batman but I think that's going to be down more to the director than the actor as to how he's played.

I am sorta going this route as well. I liked Bale as Batman, but thought he was horrible as Bruce. I think Ben will be opposite.

[Evildrider]

[MahrinSkel]

I'm a bit ambivalent. I like Affleck as both actor and director. I think he'll be fine as Bruce Wayne. I'm not entirely sure he'll be good as Batman but I think that's going to be down more to the director than the actor as to how he's played.

I am sorta going this route as well. I liked Bale as Batman, but thought he was horrible as Bruce. I think Ben will be opposite.

And if this was Clark Kent vs. Bruce Wayne....

--Dave

[jgsugden]

Batman is three characters.  Batman, public Bruce Wayne, and private Bruce Wayne. 

We've discussed Affleck as Batman.  Nobody seems likely to change their mind about how well this will work.

Affleck as the public Bruce Wayne?  Sure.  Why not.  In a way, this is an irrelevant role in the movie.  He could be played like Tony Stark, or he could be a complete fop.  There are a thousnad ways to go, there, and it would be hard to argue any of them is wrong.  This role is just a disguise for the main character with no real importance to the audience.

Bruce Wayne in private, however, is the hardest role.  He is Batman without the theatrics.  He is Batman stripped down to his soul.  He has to be intense and powerful through the force of his presence.  I don't think Bale nailed this part of Batman.  It is one of the reasons I think the third movie was the weakest of the trilogy - because it was the one movie that relied heaviest upon what made Bruce Wayne special.  This is the part of the character that Affleck has tried to show in other roles and always failed to produce.  To me, it seems far beyond his abilities.

[sickrubik]

Very well, put. Thank you. Agreed. Mind you in the context of this movie, given the director, I'm not sure the private Bruce Wayne will ever be shown.

[Ingmar]

Affleck didn't write or direct Daredevil, I don't really think he bears the blame for it. Good actors are usually bad in bad movies, a bad director or bad script can ruin just about anyone. It's really pretty rare where you get something like Anthony Perkins turning in a great performance in Psycho 2 in the service of an otherwise horrible movie.

[naum]

[Ironwood]

I'm going to go with 'I don't care' for this whole furore.

Really.

Though I will say that Ben is a great Director and, as an actor, he's a great Director.

[sickrubik]

So... possibly Cranston as Lex. And 13 fucking picture deal for Affleck? Jesus fuck.

[HaemishM]

So... possibly Cranston as Lex. And 13 fucking picture deal for Affleck? Jesus fuck.

DC also does have major interest in bringing Matt Damon into the Justice League now that Affleck is on board, and it is rumored that he is being considered for Aquaman or Martian Manhunter.

That one line makes me think this story is not true and that the web site owner is just fucking with us. Damon as Aquaman? Really?

[Ingmar]

yessssssssss

[Tannhauser]

Meh, I don't mind that Affleck is Bats, but he'll need to show some gravitas he's never shown in a movie before.

Loved Argo and The Town.

Reindeer Games is on right now.  True fact!

[tazelbain]

I plan to enjoy every last minute of this metaphorical train wreck.

Matt Damon and Sarah Silverman as the wonder twins.

[jgsugden]

Affleck didn't write or direct Daredevil, I don't really think he bears the blame for it. Good actors are usually bad in bad movies, a bad director or bad script can ruin just about anyone. It's really pretty rare where you get something like Anthony Perkins turning in a great performance in Psycho 2 in the service of an otherwise horrible movie.

It isn't about him acting 'good or bad' in the past - it is about whether he can deliver Batman.  Affleck has played a number of roles that should have been intense with a strong force of personality.  In each of them he has failed to deliver.  Daredevil, Jack Ryan, a fallen Angel, etc... were all characters that should have been forces on the screen and ended up coming off as guys along for the ride.  You can't say that was all bad direction and bad writing.  Affleck must be given the blame as well. 

To be clear: Affleck was fine in several roles, but has never been acceptable in roles like Batman.

Regardless, even if he was the perfect Batman, this is a horrible situation.  Introducing Batman in another hero's film - in a franchise that many considered to start weekly primarily due to a lack of faithfullness to the character's core tennants - in a version of a storyline that is built upon the long term relationship between the two characters... Recipe for failure.   Batman needed his own film before you shoved them together.

[Evildrider]

[Venkman]

I'm not anywhere near the level of geek about Batman heritage as some here. I loved me some of the graphic novels, but I haven't read an actual I-waited-a-month comic book since, like ever because my parents said no fucking way and I was into Zork before I had spending money of my own.

So far my interest has been mostly "if not Bale, then who" and how much movie they need to use to explain the Actor choice.

Ben Affleck can work specifically because of Daredevil. Doesn't matter if that was an awesome movie. It matters that he's got pretty good butts-in-seats appeal, has a pretty good range, can possibly bring other talent on board, and played some dark-ish hero-type a hundred years ago.

This is why I love the general nerd reaction to any decision hollywood makes about beloved comic book stuff. There is NO overlap between culturess at all. There''s barely 15 degrees of seperation even, much less 6.

Afflleck will be fine. It won't be robot jesus wearing a suit of ken miller. But good luck explaining wtf that means to anyone outside the extreme geek subculture.

[Khaldun]

...Actually Damon kinds of looks like I would imagine Aquaman to look.

And people are misremembering the reaction to Ledger. It was intense, near-universal and sustained in its hostility.

The thing is I have no confidence in *Snyder* to find some potential in Affleck and to shape it. He didn't do very much with Cavill who I think could have been far better in the role, and I don't think he's ever gotten a particularly great performance out of anyone except maybe Gerard Butler, and that was within the one-dimensional limits of 300.

A great director can probably get a passable performance out of almost anyone. Snyder is not that guy.

The basic problem with the film is also still not Affleck and maybe not even Snyder. It's that they don't have a script and they expect to be out in two years, and that they're working from the flawed set up of Man of Steel.  What they're saying so far and confirmed with the casting of Affleck is that this is an older, experienced, near-retired Batman who's already had a bunch of adventures. Did the world of "Man of Steel" feel like the people in it were familiar with the idea of a guy dressing up in a costume and fighting criminals? Didn't to me.

[Ironwood]

I really think you're overplaying the Ledger stuff.

[Rendakor]

I didn't see Dark Knight in theaters, mostly because I thought Ledger would be a horrible Joker. I was wrong, but I'm certainly among those who thought it was a bad choice before seeing the film.

[Ironwood]

I wasn't a fan of the Glasgow Grin, but I didn't mind the choice of Actor.

I'm just saying that it wasn't as universally 'OMG' as Affleck.  Not that I'm bothered by that either.

Let's wait and see, eh ?  Especially considering we have absolutely no fucking choice in the matter.

[eldaec]

We don't have argue about the Ledger Joker reaction because this is the internet and you can look it up right here...
http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=7786.0

The only person who had a problem with it was Stray, and he got over it in about a day.

This is not like that.

I give only limited fucks because this is both a superman film and a Zac Snyder film, so Ben Affleck is at least the 3rd worst thing about it. But this is not the normal level of nerd whine by any means.

[Signe]

Ben Affleck has no face character.  The most important thing about Batman is his face... especially the bottom bit.  Same is true for Robo Cop.  We need more face!  Especially interesting lips.  I would love to see Cranston as a totally evil character. 

IW, you are a hooligan and you are corrupting our soft American boys!  Shame on you!

[Ironwood]

I.. what ?