Nextbox infinity anticipation station

[Kageru]

How well is microsofts tablet doing?

Incredibly badly apparently, though they'll never release numbers to confirm that.

[schild]

No one in this thread is buying this piece crap. Why are we still talking about it?

[Trippy]

Ah, cable card is basically a proprietary US only version of a conditional access module with common interface.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_access_module)

Then why does the XBox not simply add a cable tuner and cable card slot and act as a a cable box? Any third rate assembled-in-china receiver I can buy over here in the German equivalent of best buy for $50 has a common interface slot that can accept any kind of conditional access module.

Shouldn't be a problem for MS if they so desperately want to add TV capabilities. The best thing? Would probably work in most other parts of the world as well.

They may offer one as an add-on. Unfortunately setting up a CableCARD can be somewhat painful. Normally a cable company technician has to set it up. I did it myself on my PC but I had to spend a bunch of time on the phone with tech support cause it wouldn't initialize properly. MS may be wary of those kinds of issues and they probably prefer to just use an existing (working) cable connection rather than try to setup a new one through the Xbox One even though you would get much better functionality.

[Father mike]

I just guessing here, so if this if ridiculous, I'm sure somebody will pounce on me.

If you look at the Win 8 interface and at XB-One's Kinect reliance, I think they are trying to create a 'Minority Report' style interface for the living room.   If the TV part works and is accepted, then boost it out with more PC integration (stream your PC media, e-mail, etc.) Didn't they make a really big deal out of web-surfing and Skype?

They're scared of the rise of tablets and smartphones (neither of which they've gotten any traction with).  The crowd here skews heavily to owning a computer for work and play, but how many folks do you know who only turn on their home PC once a week (?month?) now that they're really comfortable with their tablet?  This is the market they're shooting for.  Buy your kids a console, use it as a future-cool TV remote, and then let folks know that they can answer their gmail on it (with keyboard peripheral!), and it will look consumer-awesome.

Sony won the Blu-ray/HD-DVD format war by getting the Blu-ray into the living room in a console.  Maybe MS is trying to get MS-Home rolled out the same way?

 

[bhodi]

They don't need it, because people already have their tablet to do that. It's also much more convenient if someone else in the room is already watching TV or doing something else. They're trying to bring in an inferior product. You can do every social media thing they're trying to integrate, and do it better already - on an iPad.

[Pennilenko]

They don't need it, because people already have their tablet to do that. It's also much more convenient if someone else in the room is already watching TV or doing something else. They're trying to bring in an inferior product. You can do every social media thing they're trying to integrate, and do it better already - on an iPad.

Hell, most people already do it better with just their phones.

[UnSub]

Microsoft would have been better off simply upgrading the 360, keeping the setup compatable enough to port the libraries of 360 stuff, and selling better integration of netflix and hulu with a smarter, better kinect control system. Basically not gone for "game changing" and more "Xbox 360 2.0". Keep the console market, keep the price cheaper, don't rock the boat.

Personally, I think that way would have lain death for the Xbox. There would still be the outcry, but more that MS wasn't innovating and why should people upgrade? Plus if AppleTV+Siri (or similar) does launch, it leaves the 'only good for games' consoles a long way behind.

I'm not saying the direction they went was great - and I still want to see the E3 information to get a fuller picture about what is actually on offer - but more of the same isn't generally a great strategy in fields that can move as rapidly as tech-based entertainment.

Where does that leave us though?

PC gaming is essentially dead even considering Steam and suffers from rampant piracy.
The Wii U bombed hard.
Handheld gaming has essentially always been Nintendo only.
AAA titles need a potentially large number of sales to be profitable and can't reliably attract those kinds of sales even on the current gen with a combined installed base of probably 120 million.

The two remaining next gen offerings potentially bomb as hard as the Wii U but at least need years to get to any sort of installed base current AAA titles need.
There are no triple A titles on iPad/iPhone or Android.

Is it really a great idea to focus on consoles if Samsung and Apple sell more potential gaming devices per year than MS sold in nearly a decade?

What's next in gaming?

Valve seems to be the only company who truly benefits from PC gaming (well, Mojang and its ilk too, but I mean from a publisher / distributor position). Controlling the platform that others sell through and taking a cut of every sale is a winning strategy (see: Apple). I'm interested to see how the rumoured Steambox actually does, also the attempt to make Linux a gaming platform.

There's a very good chance that tablet / mobile / social gaming ends up hacking the gaming industry into small pieces with low cost, short play session / procedurally generated titles. It becomes very hard to make a decent income out of being a game developer unless you are in the top 5% and, with a few exceptions, the industry ends up dominated by enthusiast developers who are happy to sell a few thousand units. Free gaming becomes so ubiquitous that games are expected to be free.

Someone else has mentioned they see gaming going down the path of the P'n'P RPG market, where lots of people are creating things, the quality is good but only the very few (often riding on established IPs) are making money. Same with the music industry - with it being easier than ever to get something out, there's lots of artists out there trying to capture an audience that is used to paying no more than $1 a song plus know they can get it for free any time they want, leading to the majority of artists making paying-the-mortgage money having established careers and / or corporate backing. The number of working musicians in the US has reputedly halved in the past 10 years.

So I can see a future where there are more games than ever, but the majority of game creators are ever worse off if they want a financial return off their work.

[Kageru]

Valve seems to be the only company who truly benefits from PC gaming (well, Mojang and its ilk too, but I mean from a publisher / distributor position).

Lots of producers gain from steam. It's not too hard to find games that have carved themselves nice little markets due to the market access steam enables. Would killing floor, magica or recettear have got shelf space in EB? hell no, not ever. Nor does valve really own the channel that much since they don't mandate channel exclusives. They are doing well because they've shown there was un-serviced demand.

I suspect mobile / tablet gaming has killed (with EA's help) a lot of the casual desktop games. So things like the popcap games and facebook games are aimed at people who probably are moving to tablet, mobile or smart TV. But I don't think that's the gaming market most of us care about.

Linux is a hedging strategy. It's existence forces microsoft to at least pretend to support windows gaming because it's a possible alternative. And that's even before the steam box exists.

The games market will change. I could see the increased access of something like steam, a lessening of interest in overly expensive and restricted consoles, a more diverse range of hardware platforms and ever increasing development costs becoming unsustainable. But I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. A more diverse market is a more interesting market.

[DeathInABottle]

The UK knows what's up.

[Miasma]

The UK knows what's up.

I can't get over how bad that box looks.  It's clear they didn't want it to look like a console but even in comparison to pvr/dvd/cable boxes it looks terrible.  It would be an eyesore in anyone's living room.

No one in this thread is buying this piece crap. Why are we still talking about it?

I basically only get my video game news from here, are other websites and groups also stunned at how bad this device is?

[Merusk]

The trainwrecks always generate more comments than the hits.  That's why we're still jawing on.

[Teugeus]

Well, this is.........different.

[satael]

Well, this is.........different.

"Update: You, the shopper, won't have to pay the activation fee for a used Xbox One game - the shop will. Therefore, the price you see on a second-hand Xbox One game in a shop is the price you'll pay to be able to play it."

You buy a used game and it's somehow guaranteed to be activated? Is it somehow in the TOS or something that the shops can't sell games that are not (re)activated? 

[Jeff Kelly]

That update makes no sense. All of the costs of a second hand sale will of course be paid for by the customers of gamestop and co. Either because the one trading in a game gets less money for the trade in or because the buyer of the used games has to pay more. EB/Gamestop won't reduce its own margins if they don't absolutely have to.

Also try and explain the process of trading in or buying a used XBone game to the usual Gamestop customer. It sounds pretty convoluted

[Teugeus]

And this is......something, I'm lost for words.

[Paelos]

And this is......something, I'm lost for words.

This is the device that keeps on giving. It's like a hater's paradise for Microsoft. The fact some PR dipshit actually came up with the phrase, "Television viewing tends to be a passive experience for a viewer, without many opportunities for the viewer to engage or have interactive experiences with the presented content."

Um, TV viewing is supposed to be passive. That's the point of it. I want to be entertained, not grinding foozles with my eyeballs you fucking hacks.

[Merusk]

Only 3 more ad clicks and you enable the mute function, Paelos. Why quit now?!

[Jeff Kelly]

Don't. Give. Them. Ideas.

[01101010]

And this is......something, I'm lost for words.

So TV is becoming an ACTUAL Skinner Box. How delightful.

As for the trade-in, ummm, thing... yeah, I find this piece interesting:

The game will be registered as traded in and will be wiped from your Xbox Live account.

How do they know who's account to wipe? Maybe I am misunderstanding this line, but if I take a game into one of these cesspool shops, how do they know to wipe my account rather than someone else who owns the game? Or is there going to be some pre-voodoo you have to do before you take your shit to a shop to turn in? Jesus... this is such a convoluted chaotic maw, I am not sure how it will even be functional. Of course, that might be the goal.

[HaemishM]

Then why does the XBox not simply add a cable tuner and cable card slot and act as a a cable box?

Because then they would have to pay licensing fees with our shittastic cable providers, who ALSO want to keep a piece of the set top box market that is utterly unnecessary other than as an excuse to charge a $5 per month fee for the box.

You really don't get how fucked up our telecommunications/Internet/cellphone/entertainment delivery/cable/broadcast system is. It's a goddamn nightmare, mostly because of monopolistic companies making it harder for competitors to come in and do things better for cheaper.

[HaemishM]

I feel like microsoft has really lost it's way, and they're trying to force a product on an indifferent market.

See Windows 8. This is Microsoft's new corporate strategy. You WILL like what we give you, goddamnit.

[murdoc]

I think this will be the first console generation I completely skip since... forever? I can't remember ever being so uninterested in console gaming.

[KallDrexx]

\
How do they know who's account to wipe? Maybe I am misunderstanding this line, but if I take a game into one of these cesspool shops, how do they know to wipe my account rather than someone else who owns the game? Or is there going to be some pre-voodoo you have to do before you take your shit to a shop to turn in? Jesus... this is such a convoluted chaotic maw, I am not sure how it will even be functional. Of course, that might be the goal.

Each disc will most likely be digitally keyed.  So when you put a game in the drive it takes that key and registers it to yoru XBL account.  This has been 99% confirmed, the only real confusion is where that key is (is it a cd-key type of thing or is it digitally on the disc).

So when you bring the disc to a used game retailer, they will use that key to make it so your XBL account no longer has access to that game.  That's also why you can't lend games to friends without them paying an activation fee.

[HaemishM]

As for the trade-in, ummm, thing... yeah, I find this piece interesting:

The game will be registered as traded in and will be wiped from your Xbox Live account.

How do they know who's account to wipe? Maybe I am misunderstanding this line, but if I take a game into one of these cesspool shops, how do they know to wipe my account rather than someone else who owns the game? Or is there going to be some pre-voodoo you have to do before you take your shit to a shop to turn in? Jesus... this is such a convoluted chaotic maw, I am not sure how it will even be functional. Of course, that might be the goal.

From what I've heard, every game you play on the Bone requires you to install it to the hard drive, which being connected to the Internet, is activated for your XBox Live account. Your copy is then uniquely associated with your Live account. When you trade it in, the used seller scans the disc and it disables the activation on your Live account which disables the ability for you to play it locally since the Bone has to phone home to the Internet once every 24 hours. This is why they want an "always-on" Internet connection.

Does that mean if you trade in a game with your Bone disabled from the Internet that you can contain to play the single-player on your hard drive without the disc? Don't know. Maybe they still require you to have the disc in the drive when you play.

God, the more I discuss this thing, the more infuriatingly stupid it all sounds. It's like Microsoft took all the paranoid nerdrage fantasies from the last 15 years and made a console based on them.

[Paelos]

The best part about piracy concerns is that they have all these estimates on how much they lose to piracy, yet no estimate data that these pirates would convert themselves to customers, or how many customers they lose by treating paying people like criminals.

It's the classic Darth Vader fallacy. The harder you squeeze, the more customers slip through your fingers.

[Alterity]

Does that mean if you trade in a game with your Bone disabled from the Internet that you can contain to play the single-player on your hard drive without the disc? Don't know. Maybe they still require you to have the disc in the drive when you play.

I think two scenarios would play out.  1) You can still play for 24 more hours if you left your xbone unplugged before you went and traded it in.  After the 24 hours is up, I would assume you will have to re-sync your console with the Live Servers.  2) As soon as the retailer flags your account, it also flags your xbone to re-sync thus forcing you to get onto Live.  Either way, it's stupid.

I am more concerned with Gamefly as I only actually buy a few titles a year.  For some reason I can see another "subscription" service becoming an option for people who play used games.

[Merusk]

\
How do they know who's account to wipe? Maybe I am misunderstanding this line, but if I take a game into one of these cesspool shops, how do they know to wipe my account rather than someone else who owns the game? Or is there going to be some pre-voodoo you have to do before you take your shit to a shop to turn in? Jesus... this is such a convoluted chaotic maw, I am not sure how it will even be functional. Of course, that might be the goal.

Each disc will most likely be digitally keyed.  So when you put a game in the drive it takes that key and registers it to yoru XBL account.  This has been 99% confirmed, the only real confusion is where that key is (is it a cd-key type of thing or is it digitally on the disc).

So when you bring the disc to a used game retailer, they will use that key to make it so your XBL account no longer has access to that game.  That's also why you can't lend games to friends without them paying an activation fee.

Also note that combined with your Xbox profile, Kinect always scanning for the # of people in a room and new TV achieves this lets them more effectively target ads at you. They now know you're an 38 year old father of 2 into action games, Sherlock and reruns of Seinfeld.  Here's a product aimed RIGHT AT YOU!  It's a fucking consumer data goldmine if people actually buy it.

Which makes it even funnier.  You pay for the privilege of MS harvesting your data and selling it, a double add to their bottom line.

[Samwise]

This is why I still hate Microsoft and mock those who tear up and put on the white armor whenever they see the dreaded M$.

Even if Microsoft were literally Satan, typing M$ would still be fucking stupid.

[Pennilenko]

This is why I still hate Microsoft and mock those who tear up and put on the white armor whenever they see the dreaded M$.

Even if Microsoft were literally Satan, typing M$ would still be fucking stupid.

Microsatan

[01101010]

Does that mean if you trade in a game with your Bone disabled from the Internet that you can contain to play the single-player on your hard drive without the disc? Don't know. Maybe they still require you to have the disc in the drive when you play.

I think two scenarios would play out.  1) You can still play for 24 more hours if you left your xbone unplugged before you went and traded it in.  After the 24 hours is up, I would assume you will have to re-sync your console with the Live Servers.  2) As soon as the retailer flags your account, it also flags your xbone to re-sync thus forcing you to get onto Live.  Either way, it's stupid.

I am more concerned with Gamefly as I only actually buy a few titles a year.  For some reason I can see another "subscription" service becoming an option for people who play used games.

So I gather it goes by the physical disc's serial number tied to your console - because no way in hell I would give anyone at a Gamestop or the like my account information, Xbox or otherwise. That would make me nervous.

[Alterity]

No you wouldn't have to give your account information to anyone, that'd be a huge security concern obviously.  From what I was reading there are digital keys that are either installed on your console or attached to your gamertag when you first play the game.

The more I think about Scenario 2 I laid out, it wouldn't work because they are saying you are able to take games you own to a friends house, log into your account, and play with them with no fee.  So there's someway that digital game key is being attached to your gamertag.

Wired: So as another example, if I took my disc and went to a friend’s house, would I be able to play that game on his machine?

Harrison: Yes, you can. You can take your game around to your friend’s house just as you would today — that’s assuming you have a physical disc — and what we’re doing with the new Live technology is that… with the disc, it’s just a repository for “the bits”. You can put that disc into his drive, you can play the game while you’re there, and then you go home and take that disc with you. But actually, “the bits” are still on his drive. If your friend decides that he really likes to play that game, then he can go buy it instantly, and it doesn’t need to download again. It’s already there. Once he’s paid for it, it’s immediately there.

[HaemishM]

Which means the friend who has it on their hard drive and activates it is getting a new digital key assigned to their hardware while the key from the disc stays with the original account.

[Merusk]

It also means: More Marketing DATA!

Yes, I am a one-note bastard on this.

[Morat20]

Just a note: Just because a company patents something, it doesn't mean they plan to use it. It just means they want to lock down the concept in case they want to use it, and so they can charge anyone who does.

[Sky]

This is why I still hate Microsoft and mock those who tear up and put on the white armor whenever they see the dreaded M$.

Even if Microsoft were literally Satan, typing M$ would still be fucking stupid.

Microsatan

Mi¢ro$atan