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Author Topic: Black Desert - Korea getting serious about sandboxes  (Read 191868 times)
hal1
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Reply #350 on: March 07, 2016, 04:57:33 PM

I gotta say, if this is want you want. Is is the best (is it better than eve?). But it isn't a mmorpg where you see your char gain more power. I'm thinking, eq. wow, tera and blade and soul. But this isn't that game. Its a sandbox like eve. But this isn't a mmorpg and we need a new category. Sandboxes.
taolurker
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Reply #351 on: March 07, 2016, 07:06:52 PM

Where'd you find a bed? And/or a light for your house?

What server is everyone on? I'm on Uno > Serendia; not sure which of those is my server (or how hard it is to switch) but if a lot of us are on the same server we ought to get a Bat Country together. If only so I can spam my random questions there instead of here. why so serious?

Speaking of which, what level cooking do I need to make the Imperial Packages I can trade? I see them listed here on the recipes list but all it says is Apprentice 1; I'm at Beginner 8.
In North Heidel Territory, in Northern Guard camp is a dwarf Jemkas Whyrmsbane, I did a bunch of quests with him, both yesterday and today, including creating a garden, planting things there, killing mine imps, and also played his conversation game at least 3 times. Then after he gave me a production lesson on fertilizer he told me to go to Heidel and talk to the guild NPC about housing... The reward for that was a bed and decorations for the house.  I am using my lantern while inside, because that particular building is super dark.

I'm also on Uno, and like Ard said the "channel" doesn't matter, and any character on the 3 servers can join any channel. Ironically though I had been mostly on Serendia or Serendia 2 depending on how busy it is. I am seriously thinking of buying this


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Falconeer
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Reply #352 on: March 08, 2016, 12:23:14 AM

I gotta say, if this is want you want. Is is the best (is it better than eve?). But it isn't a mmorpg where you see your char gain more power. I'm thinking, eq. wow, tera and blade and soul. But this isn't that game. Its a sandbox like eve. But this isn't a mmorpg and we need a new category. Sandboxes.


As far as I know the term MMORPG was coined for Ultima Online, which has been the biggest sandbox for about fifteen years. So what the hell are you talking about?

Bunk
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Reply #353 on: March 08, 2016, 06:41:18 AM

Thanks for the advice on fishing, whomever said it - money is no longer such an issue. Now I need to setup nodes so that I get proper value from carting the fish from one town to another. Well, carrying on horseback, don't have a cart yet.

I think one of the more amusing things about this game - I'm combat level 15 and I have no idea what the death mechanic is. I think I've been under half health once. I have a stack of 138 basic health potions.

Oh, and the game did become a bit more pleasant once I figured out how to turn off character names.

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Falconeer
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Reply #354 on: March 08, 2016, 07:15:08 AM

I can't wrap my head around what a big mistake it was on their part to turn off player-to-player trading. I know why they did it, and I know what kind of shit it saved us from, but the consequence of that is making people play alone even when they are in the same room. Unless you want to mindlessly grind mobs together, of course.

The inability to really play with your friends, other than looking at their toons, will really hurt this game in the medium and long period. Such an incredibly huge shared world, and such a strange forced solo experience.

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Reply #355 on: March 08, 2016, 08:14:57 AM

Here's our massively singleplayer online-only game.

Man, this hobby gets worse every year.

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Reply #356 on: March 08, 2016, 08:24:38 AM

Wait, you can't trade from player to player? ... the fuck?

Was that to kill gold sales or something because...  swamp poop

Falconeer
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Reply #357 on: March 08, 2016, 08:42:02 AM

Yes, to kill gold sellers. And it worked very well. Except it slayed a good 30% of the fun of MMORPGs if not more in the process. Think about it, so much crafting, so much logistics to take care of, so much economy, this game seriously has a lot of the cool things (YMMV) of EVE, and all of that has to be played with/versus just the auction house, which for all we know could be actually an AI, and you can't trade SHIT with your friends. You can't give them money, you can't give them equip, you can't give them any of the things you craft, or ingredients, and you can't share with them any of your achievements. Literally all you can do together is grind monsters or, at some point, PvP.

Segoris
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Reply #358 on: March 08, 2016, 09:01:40 AM

No, you can't trade players directly except for consumables. TBH, it's really not that big of a deal. It would be nice to trade farming seeds and what not with other players, sure, but I've barely missed trading so far. The AH has pretty much everything you need regularly, only the boss drops and certain armor pieces are rare, and money is easy as hell to make that pretty much no matter what you do you'll make money unless you're fucking up badly.

And as for goldsellers, yes this scorched earth way to get rid of them seems to be working. I haven't seen any spam

I gotta say, if this is want you want. Is is the best (is it better than eve?). But it isn't a mmorpg where you see your char gain more power. I'm thinking, eq. wow, tera and blade and soul. But this isn't that game. Its a sandbox like eve. But this isn't a mmorpg and we need a new category. Sandboxes.


In addition to what Falc said, there is a very clear power gain. Blackstones and skill upgrades for vertical power, quests for lateral progression. So wtf are you talking about?


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Reply #359 on: March 08, 2016, 09:16:39 AM

Early portions of MMO games were never about trading. Everyone had started out even and were scrambling to get through all portions and find what they really enjoy. It's later in the game's life that you start to miss it. Especially if you don't like some game system in particular.

I hated resource farming in SWG, but I could trade power for it. I hated leatherworking in WoW, but I could trade gold or mats for the finished product from other players. You've lost all that from the start here. It's a lot of interaction down the line cut off to spite something better resolved other ways because this was "easier."

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Ard
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Reply #360 on: March 08, 2016, 09:24:16 AM

My biggest issue is being unable to split specializations with my wife straight up.  I can't make her tools, which is a bit annoying, but it's not the end of the world.

I hated resource farming in SWG, but I could trade power for it. I hated leatherworking in WoW, but I could trade gold or mats for the finished product from other players. You've lost all that from the start here. It's a lot of interaction down the line cut off to spite something better resolved other ways because this was "easier."

You can still do this as there's still a player to player auction house, but it has price floors and ceilings set for all items to keep it from being a race to the bottom or rampant gouging.  The main issue is no direct trading, I can't give things away..
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 09:34:20 AM by Ard »
Falconeer
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Reply #361 on: March 08, 2016, 09:37:04 AM

We can rationalize as much as we want and repeat to ourselves that it's being fun anyway so who cares. It may be true FOR NOW. The reality is that, from wives and husbands to your group of friends you are playing with on Teamspeak, this game does a great job in making you feel like you are all separated by an artificial invisible and impassable wall that murders one if not THE most interesting part about playing with friends in MMOs: collaboration.

Unforgivable.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 09:40:01 AM by Falconeer »

Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #362 on: March 08, 2016, 11:04:44 AM

And it didn't even work to it's intended purpose after all. Roughly one fourth of whatever the hell chat channels default to the bottom left screen was gold sellers duRing the two hours I was on last night. Nowhere near Tera levels, but still annoying.

The Countess has dragged me into this along with some friends, because of the interesting open world, crafting and trading aspects. But if you can't do the crafting and trading together? ??

The UI is atrocious as is the localization.  Wtf is up with the voiceovers that are completely different from the text? Can I just turn the creepy things off completely? Also wtf is up with all the hyper caffeinated junkie npcs jonesing for a hit and jittering all over the screen the whole time you talk to them?

 I'm loving all the crybaby pvp-ers complaining about to being able to gank at will.  And not seeing any pvp at all in the two hours it took me to get to 10th level - the last three levels were a side effect of me trying to figure out how to do a combo when the on- screen instructions differed from the tool tips and both required a key I'd remapped to try to alleviate their use of my push-to-talk key (L-Ctrl).

And what is up with some commands you can remap to most any key but others can only be assigned to an eclectic select few? Did we time warp back to 1999?

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Falconeer
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Reply #363 on: March 08, 2016, 12:02:16 PM

This is interesting. Gold sellers? I have seen none, and mostly because there is no known way for anyone to sell gold (or anything else). I would dare to say what you saw were trolls.

Also, no one can be attacked by other players until they are level 45.

Rendakor
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Reply #364 on: March 08, 2016, 12:53:06 PM

I've seen gold spam too, and I assume they're scammers but they look like any other gold spam I've seen.

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Ard
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Reply #365 on: March 08, 2016, 01:08:15 PM

I've only seen a handful of messages about it total, but I assumed it was someone making a bad joke since there's no real way to transfer money.  I tend to mostly just ignore general chat.
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Reply #366 on: March 08, 2016, 02:45:07 PM

Here's an example:
If that's someone trolling it's pretty elaborate because the website actually exists.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
taolurker
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Reply #367 on: March 08, 2016, 02:50:07 PM

I've seen these messages too, only like one or two, and both times I clicked on the name in chat and did "Request Chat Ban".



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Rendakor
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Reply #368 on: March 08, 2016, 02:57:03 PM

That costs 30 Energy, and I don't think they refund it like Arche Age if they actually ban the fucker. I just block them and move on.

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Falconeer
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Reply #369 on: March 08, 2016, 02:59:33 PM

You are right. The sites are real. How do they work? Probably like in Skyforge, where the only way was for buyers to lend their account to the gold sellers for a few minutes. With login information and all. Yeah...


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Reply #370 on: March 08, 2016, 05:20:40 PM

Probably that.

Is it possible to refill a lantern or do I need to just buy a new one?

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Mandella
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Reply #371 on: March 08, 2016, 05:54:02 PM

Here's an example:
If that's someone trolling it's pretty elaborate because the website actually exists.

I dunno about the gold spammers, but is that wagon a thing a player can ride around in? Or is it just some NPC fluff?
Pennilenko
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Reply #372 on: March 08, 2016, 06:19:22 PM

There are several types of wagons players can use, from rickety ones up to something like that I believe.

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Segoris
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Reply #373 on: March 08, 2016, 08:36:06 PM

That looks like the Farm Wagon with a wagon cover equipped. Around 250k on the market, so it's pretty cheap.

There are even bigger ones than that too, but they're around 2mil on the market or require zinc in order to create
taolurker
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Reply #374 on: March 08, 2016, 10:20:27 PM

Honestly the auto run to quests thing means many people do wagon, horse and running automatically. I also can use my horse usually at his max speed and run past anyone auto steering. I also seem to lose horse stamina slightly quicker but I steer way faster than the auto run and shave minutes from travel. Been nearing end of the 7 day guest pass I won, and still not sure about buying. Part of me wants to, but I also don't know if I enjoy the combat enough. I haven't yet grouped, and many people seem to ignore messages I've sent, and although I've seen many duos and trios, I see more people solo who seem to fumble through how to combat where I am furiously destroying things (and was at their level).

Combat level 19, and gathering.production experience into apprentice, owning lots of property between Heidel and Velia.


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Falconeer
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Reply #375 on: March 08, 2016, 11:49:59 PM

You can have that wagon and also some much more luxurious ones. But also some cheaper ones and shittier ones, and you can pick how many and which horses attach to it, and you have to buy or capture and tame and/or breed the horses and they all have different characteristics. Breeding horses and create better rare and valuable ones is a profession in itself. So is the "trading" profession that requires those wagons, although honestly I just bring the wagon with me when I go grinding and park it on a road nearby so I can put the things I loot and the money (cause they have weight) on it and can grind for a longer time.
See, in all these things the game is wonderfully crazy and engaging. It's the inability to really share these aspects that hurts it.

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Reply #376 on: March 10, 2016, 01:08:00 PM

Regarding the texture pop-in, never seen anything worse than this, unfortunately (playing on max. settings minus the "high end" option). It's quite distracting  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #377 on: March 10, 2016, 02:47:28 PM

I honestly don't know what to think about this game as I near the end of this trial.  I mean, it's amusing to just fart around in, but to what end?  The goal here is rather nebulous and there's no clear path to it.  Do I build stuff? I can't trade it.  Do I PVE or PVP? I don't love grinding, and I'm not going to be competitive in any sort of PVP with how much I play.

There's just a lot here and not all of it fits together neatly.  It's buy to play for $30 so the investment is minimal... until you find out that pets are gated behind the pay wall.   undecided There are friends online but are they just afk fishing?  awesome, for real  

This almost makes me want to play GW2, but then again, it makes you see the flaws and shortcomings in that game's design as well.   Head scratch

« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 02:50:09 PM by Rasix »

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Reply #378 on: March 10, 2016, 04:13:13 PM

I honestly don't know what to think about this game as I near the end of this trial.  I mean, it's amusing to just fart around in, but to what end?  The goal here is rather nebulous and there's no clear path to it.  Do I build stuff? I can't trade it.  Do I PVE or PVP? I don't love grinding, and I'm not going to be competitive in any sort of PVP with how much I play.
I'm sort of in the same boat. I'm enjoying all the various bits and I love how sandboxy it is...but not being able to trade really hurts. I can't twink my friends, I can't make shady backroom deals circumventing the AH, etc. It feels like a single player game that requires me be online because reasons.

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taolurker
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Reply #379 on: March 10, 2016, 09:57:23 PM

I honestly don't know what to think about this game as I near the end of this trial.  I mean, it's amusing to just fart around in, but to what end?  The goal here is rather nebulous and there's no clear path to it.  Do I build stuff? I can't trade it.  Do I PVE or PVP? I don't love grinding, and I'm not going to be competitive in any sort of PVP with how much I play.
I'm sort of in the same boat. I'm enjoying all the various bits and I love how sandboxy it is...but not being able to trade really hurts. I can't twink my friends, I can't make shady backroom deals circumventing the AH, etc. It feels like a single player game that requires me be online because reasons.
See, I am sort of in this same mindset, it was enjoyable but it being a sandbox with only PvP >>should I continue progressing was where PVP+me was making me really allergic to continuing.

I enjoyed the little farming, collecting and mini-gaming, plus earning silvers quickly is not hard, it just was just sort of empty... It was way too crowded, and felt like even when there was a vast world that focusing on low levels and alting grinding farming was not going to be long term enjoyable, and I probably got the $30 worth of enjoyment out of it already to this point... but since the money isn't there for me and I feel it's worth less and might be more fun less crowded I'll wait to see what price drops or populations/discussions lead to. Honestly if the chat engine was better, and I were roleplaying, even then it was a maybe at steep discount for kicks thing.

Not being able to trade and even everything marketplace price limited are both nice in theory, but that too will make most of this game kind of pale and eventually boring imo. Voice coms of people planting corn, making planks for seiges or yelling attack.. /shrug not fun as multi-player to me anymore.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 10:04:13 PM by taolurker »


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Signe
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Reply #380 on: March 14, 2016, 07:34:28 AM

I haven't been able to play this at all, really.  I get a headache when I try and read the text.  No one wants to play a game with a headache! 

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Reply #381 on: March 14, 2016, 02:17:24 PM

Levelling becomes really grindy.
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Reply #382 on: March 15, 2016, 07:54:26 AM

What my BDO playing seems to amount to instead of killing monsters:
Falconeer
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Reply #383 on: March 15, 2016, 08:02:31 AM

I am still loving it. It just can't be stressed enough: it sucks that they basically forced it into a FUCKING SINGLE PLAYER game unless you are in a 30+ guild. But even as a single player game, it can be a lot of fun. It stands as a testament of how much of an interesting and well crafted product they put together.

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Reply #384 on: March 15, 2016, 02:08:25 PM

What my BDO playing seems to amount to instead of killing monsters:

My impression from watching people steam is that it's a horse-riding simulator.
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