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Author Topic: Black Desert - Korea getting serious about sandboxes  (Read 191887 times)
Zetor
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Reply #140 on: September 28, 2015, 10:03:38 PM

How about a game where you can have your pet red panda ride around on the character's headOh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Lantyssa
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Reply #141 on: September 29, 2015, 08:24:51 AM

Adorable, but FF14 didn't hold my attention for long.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Falconeer
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Reply #142 on: October 11, 2015, 10:22:10 AM

Jesus. Go forward to 00:45. Now that's a magic wielder.

Draegan
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Reply #143 on: October 11, 2015, 12:00:56 PM

I thought the gandolf video looks better. Game always looked awesome though.
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Reply #144 on: October 11, 2015, 12:10:11 PM

Wait, there's a class called the Valencia Witch?

...I work in Valencia, I'm pretty sure I know a few of those.





I'll see myself out.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

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Reply #145 on: October 11, 2015, 08:44:52 PM

Jesus. Go forward to 00:45. Now that's a magic wielder.
Eh, that's like your every MMO AoE wizard class ever, except made easier because you barely even need to kite the stuff. Just have to sit through seizure-inducing gfx that already got repetitive by the end of that clip.
Draegan
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Reply #146 on: October 15, 2015, 07:07:46 AM

Yay release timeframe:

Press Release: Black Desert West will be B2P | Black Desert Online
Black Desert will go Live early 2016 as a Buy2Play Title:

Daum Games brings Black Desert Online to North America and Europe

Highly anticipated action MMORPG will launch in early 2016 as a premium service

Amsterdam, The Netherlands – October 14, 2015 — Daum Games Europe today announced that it is working with developer Pearl Abyss to bring its successful MMORPG Black Desert Online to North America and Europe. To celebrate, Daum Games launched a teaser site, which went live at 13:37 CET.

Black Desert Online (BDO) is an open world action MMORPG with next generation visuals and skilled based combat that will rejuvenate the genre. Black Desert Online has the best character customization system of any game that is currently on the market. This feature allows for unprecedented detailed character creation. Its intuitive controls, beautifully designed world and extensive lore will excite both newcomers and veterans of MMO games and action RPG’s in general.

The upcoming Western release will differ in many ways from the already launched Russian and Korean services, such as the game’s balancing, progression and monetization model.

Teaser Site: Black Desert Online, the next gen MMORPG
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Reply #147 on: October 15, 2015, 08:52:00 AM


Furiously
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Reply #148 on: October 15, 2015, 09:18:02 AM

So it will be going F2P in June?

Falconeer
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Reply #149 on: November 26, 2015, 11:29:51 AM

Founders packages to access the closed beta (from December 16th to December 22nd) are available. 20, 50 and 100 € - Only the 100€ one gets you in he December closed beta.

https://www.blackdesertonline.com/preorder

One thing I just learnt: there is no trading between players outside of the auction house, as this apparently kills all unofficial gold selling attempts. Granted, you can still buy gold, but you'll do so from the Devs.

Threash
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Reply #150 on: November 26, 2015, 12:09:39 PM

Founders packages to access the closed beta (from December 16th to December 22nd) are available. 20, 50 and 100 € - Only the 100€ one gets you in he December closed beta.

https://www.blackdesertonline.com/preorder

One thing I just learnt: there is no trading between players outside of the auction house, as this apparently kills all unofficial gold selling attempts. Granted, you can still buy gold, but you'll do so from the Devs.

Can't you just put a worthless item on the auction house for a ton of gold and have the gold sellers give you the money that way?

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Falconeer
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Reply #151 on: November 26, 2015, 12:17:44 PM

Apparently not, don't know why.

Anyway, the big news is that the game sucks. I am reading around and turns out it's pretty much 100% solo, there's no group content, no end game, PvE is super easy and PvP is supposed to be the meat of the game but it's a potion spam fest (5 seconds cooldown), item driven, and it supposedly allows you to conquer cities but having a city does nothing. And it was supposed to be a big sandbox but seems like most of the sandbox functions have been maimed, cut and/or turned off.

Fuck.

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Reply #152 on: November 26, 2015, 12:41:42 PM

My impression from watching people steam is that it's a horse-riding simulator.
tmp
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Reply #153 on: November 26, 2015, 03:26:48 PM

Anyway, the big news is that the game sucks.
That's not news. It was a huge flop even in Korea for a reason why so serious?
Draegan
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Reply #154 on: November 27, 2015, 06:44:42 AM

I've heard the game is shit but I was holding out small hope that the game would be modified for the west.
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Reply #155 on: November 27, 2015, 02:16:48 PM

 cry


I'm really starting to think a half way decent sandbox is impossible these days.  It's amazing how every attempt in the last 15 years has been a total cluster fuck.

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Gimfain
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Reply #156 on: November 27, 2015, 02:52:49 PM

If you followed the early interviews with the game developer he spoke of the game as an open world game, unlike C9's fully instanced gameplay. When asked by western media if it was a sandbox he said yes, so in many way its western media that turned this game into a sandbox.

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Reply #157 on: November 27, 2015, 09:08:21 PM

If you look at korea blade and soul is way more popular. Now B&s is higly instanted. So theres that black desert isnt. But the game B&S is way better imo. As allways your milage may vary. (and I havent played black desert, just watched youtube vids.)
Draegan
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Reply #158 on: November 28, 2015, 06:52:58 AM

Falcs critisism is what he heard from US testers and Koreans that play both western style games.

In Korea the pvp is a shitfest. It's a karma based system with a lot of grind in it.
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Reply #159 on: December 17, 2015, 03:55:21 AM

Allegeddly closed western beta is now on until the next week.

These RPS beauties deserve some recognition:

Falconeer
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Reply #160 on: December 17, 2015, 04:50:56 AM

I'm in it. I toyed around with the Korean version a few months ago, but MMORPGs barely feel real to me until I can play a translated version where every aspect of the UI is clear and helpful.

About this western version, liking lots of things, and disliking some other. Pitch black nights? Awesome! I am thinking of making an "impressions" video that would try to consider f13 sensitivities.

As mentioned in previous posts though, the bad of the game seems to come out once you reach max level. Up to then, it's all fireflies and lullabies.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 04:53:13 AM by Falconeer »

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Reply #161 on: December 17, 2015, 05:30:51 AM

These RPS beauties deserve some recognition:

What is Korean for "moe"? swamp poop

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Reply #162 on: December 18, 2015, 02:15:31 PM

I'm in it. I toyed around with the Korean version a few months ago, but MMORPGs barely feel real to me until I can play a translated version where every aspect of the UI is clear and helpful.

About this western version, liking lots of things, and disliking some other. Pitch black nights? Awesome! I am thinking of making an "impressions" video that would try to consider f13 sensitivities.

As mentioned in previous posts though, the bad of the game seems to come out once you reach max level. Up to then, it's all fireflies and lullabies.

What do you do when you're at max level?
Falconeer
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Reply #163 on: December 18, 2015, 02:53:56 PM

Well I am level 12 so I can't say :/

More seriously, this is/was supposed to be a PvP oriented game, so when you are max level you are expected to fight Guild vs Guild wars for trading towns and castles. But the status of all that is unknown. Reports are that -of course- if you are not in a big guild you find yourself out of activties soon as PvE has been kept uninteresting to funnel people into PvP, and a lot of the sandbox stuff has been either cut or simplified. And even in PvP, the most blatant problems is that you have to feed your PvP needs (enchantments, potions) with TONS of money, which you have to endlessly grind uninteresting PvE content for. Also, seems like the enchantments are game changing at the highest levels, and they are money and RNG based as usual for Korean MMOs.

I haven't verified any of this firsthand, just reporting what I've been reading.

Falconeer
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Reply #164 on: December 20, 2015, 05:38:54 AM

So, after playing around with this enough I found out that it has A LOT more stuff going on than it is immediately obvious. And for the most part it's all good stuff. Seems like the sandbox part hasn't been chooped as much as those who complain around claim to be. Let's have a random list:

- First things firsts: THERE IS NO FAST TRAVEL IN BLACK DESERT. This means logistics play a big part in the trading game. Sadly, THERE IS NO DIRECT TRADING BETWEEN PLAYERS, only Auction House to positively kill any form of gold selling. It works apparently. Yes, this game is weird like that.

- Node connections. Every city, town, village or settlement in the game is a "node", meaning that it has its own market of goods bought and sold and with unique prices floating up and down depending on real time supply and demand. Some nodes also produce specific raw resources that you can put your workers on "auto-gather" on, but we'll see that later. The important part to understand about nodes, is that you can't really trade between different nodes/towns/villages unless you have connected them to each other, and you do this by investing points from your "contribution points" pool, which grows as you level but it is not infinite. Basically, you have to create your areas of influence and your own trading routes in the game and choose where to invest. You can't just trade from wherever you want to wherever you want, you have to "make your name" in those places in a way, or open an agency if you prefer. And you can also at any point take your contribution point back and change your node network, but they still have to all be linked to each other somehow.
Investing in nodes also raises the drop rate for that area.

- Guild Wars. Guilds can build "Node Castles" and take control of the nodes. No idea what benefits that entails but I am sure that on top of bragging rights they will have a cut of the profits and a chance to manipulate prices and production. Also worth mentioning that the PvP is pretty much all built around Guild vs Guild fights. You can kill people randomly, but the "karma" punishments are so harsh that it's never a good idea. GvG is where it's at.

- Trading - This is not really trading items you use, it's a specific activity where you trade "goods" that have pretty much only the prupose of playing the Trading Game. For the other kind of trading, you'll use the Auction House as in any other game. While these Trading Goods have an expiration date of 24 hours, so no one can game the market by buying bunches of them low and waiting days ntil the price is convenient.
A lot of things have different value dependng on where you sell them including loot. A little bit like Elite and EVE the whole thing is regulated by supply and demand, which is of course artifically manipulated by the underlying game simulation, but also by dynamic events, like weather events or monsters attacking cities and so on.
Trading has levels that determine what kind of stuff you can trade. There's also a "bargain" function that you can use with NPC to get better deals. As I mentioned before, you have to build your own trading routes by connecting nodes or you will sell your goods for 30% of their true value. The longer the route between purchase point and selling point the more oney you get, but to do that you need to have those two points connected with all the in-between nodes, which means a lot of "Contribution Points" invested. So it's all about planning how to do the whole long disance merchant thing and understand how to better invest both your points-resources and your actual playing time.

- Workers. You hire workers from a randomized lists. They have different names and looks and skills (like move speed, work speed and luck) depending on race too, and when you level up your crafting abilities and your influence in a city (since workers are local, and tied to the city are born in) you can get better skilled workers. They lalso evel up themselves anyway, and they gain new skills as they do. When  they reach leel 30 they get a RNG chance to go up a tier. Workers can be sold and bought between players, which makes it feel a bit like Football Manager. Workers need houses to sleep in and you see them actually walk to work in the morning and walk back home at night (unconfirmed).

- Carriages and mounts. Without a carriage or a mount, you would have to do the trading part with backpacks which slow your character down to the point of tears. Like in Archeage, you want mounts, which make trading viable and also give you enough room to move large quantities of goods you wouldn't have any other way to transport. There are different kinds of mounts and carriages, and you can also decide what kind of horses attach to it in order to improve the performances even more. A nice touch is that you can even attach your personal mount, which would give the carriage a unique looking horse among the default ones. Carriages are also good for when you go out grinding, so you don't have to go back to town too often. Remember that even money has weight here.
Worth mentioning that you can buy mounts, but you can also tame wild ones which supposedly are better (unconfirmed). Every animal has randomized stats AND talents, and they level up. You can also breed horses if you have two of different sex. Remember, NO FAST TRAVELING in Black Desert so mounts, their quality, and leveling them up is of the uttermost importance. Also, you can fight from horseback.

There are also elephants (which can be used by three people at once in batle) and camels that can be mounted and used as transports, and regions are important so camels are best in the desert while horses are optimal in temperate climate. And one last thing worth mentioning is that you wanna stay on the roads when you transport goods or they could get damaged and their value decrease. That, of course, also makes you a target for bandits hunting merchants and the riches they move around.

Like in Archeage, it seems that when you are moving goods you are "flagged" as a Merchant, which means you are open game for PvP, so players can attack you and steal your stuff without the usual consequences (which are a loss of Karma, which in turns makes you lose stats or even items when you die). This is unverified though, and they say it might change for the Western versions.

- Knowledge and unlocking quests and dialogues. A lot of effort has been put into creating a believable world with characters and stories. To simulate this, the more you do in an area, meaning killing monsters but also just having dialogues with NPCs, and the more you get to know them and in return they get to know you. By doing this you get "knowledge" points, which are a visible resource for every area you are in and unlock other pieces of dialogue so other quests and rewards and so on. It is nice because while it impies reading a lot of VERY BADLY translated (so far) lines of text, it makes looking for NPCs and exploring way more satisfying than usual.

- Night and day and secret Store. Weather. The night and day cycle matters a lot in this game. First of all, at night you can't see SHIT. It's pitch black (which is beautiful) and you have to use a lantern, but on top of that monsters become stronger while at the same time yelding more XP if killed. Night is also the only time when the Secret Store appears. Not sure if it's a static location or not, but it's a store with unique products that you can only catch when the sun is down. Also, if I get this right, your workers don't work at night, and finally weather has an impact on player stats like attack power and the likes. In short, not a good idea to go killing a boss during a snowstorm. Weather also impacts growing crops.

- Pets. There's plenty of pets, and they have different functions and abilities, and they even interact with your player model (Cats jump on your shoulders when they feel like it), and you can have more than one out at the same time.

- Houses. Houses are instanced but the system works really well. They look good, they can be decorated, and they serve another million functions. They are used as warehouses, because as I mentioned in this game everything has a weight and a volume so you need places to physically store your stuff. And they are used as your crafting places, since it's where you'll put your processing stations. By leveling up your houses or paying more money you can also have access to higher end processing stations. Also, this is where your workers will go to sleep. So if you want to have more workers in a specific town, you have to buy houses for them.

- As mentioned before, there is no fast travel but your characters are part of a family and travel when you are using another. So, when you want to move one charcter to another place but don't want to just look at the screen while it auto-runs to destination, you can order your char to go to a place, while switching to another one of your toons. Eventually, the former one will reach its destination while you are playing with the other. Having multiple characters in this game is important because they can literally be like agents in different towns and markets taking care of your interests in that region as there's no fast travel and so many actions require your physical presence there. Another cool thing is that while there's no direct trading between players, all your characters can share everything and there are no level restrictions on gear so you can give your level 55 armor to your level 5 alt, and that's fine.

- Crafting. It can be done manually, the traditional way with gathering stuff (some of which your workers can't get theselves) in the world and going to build things to a crafting station, or automaticlaly through the "workers". The first way is only for consumables. The second one is to craft anything else. But they overlap in many stages. There's also actual farming, where you put down fields and grow your crops like in Archeage. But here, stuff like ground water level, humidity, temperature and weather matter. Also scarecrows or birds will steal it from you. Fishing is a (mini)game on its own. Pretty developed it seems.

I am not even sure I've covered everything. I keep reading negative comments about this game and after playing it for a while now I can see a huge amount of positive stuff that for some reason keeps being downplayed left and right. I know very well that a MMORPG doesn't show its real face until you have reached the level cap, so I am NOT claiming this is amazing or anything, but it's safe to say that if nothing else Black Desert tries some new things or brings back some that have been too often set aside.

And this is all on top of what are HANDS DOWN the most amazing graphics in this genre ever. Seriously, screenshots or videos don't do it any justice. Especially if you are familiar with European landscapes and the medieval legacy, this game is just pure joy.


EDIT: Added a line for Guild vs Guild wars.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 08:51:42 AM by Falconeer »

satael
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Reply #165 on: December 20, 2015, 06:40:35 AM

Argh! That wall-of-text was enough to make me actually check whether they had set the release date yet (still 1st quarter of 2016 and no exact date).  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
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Reply #166 on: December 20, 2015, 06:42:32 AM

Sounds like it may at least be worth a go.
Threash
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Reply #167 on: December 20, 2015, 08:19:53 AM

All of that sounds incredibly interesting.  I hate you.

I am the .00000001428%
Rendakor
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Reply #168 on: December 20, 2015, 08:31:33 AM

All of that sounds incredibly interesting.  I hate you.

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Falconeer
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Reply #169 on: December 20, 2015, 08:36:53 AM

We all know that, two weeks in, the net fun is gonna be about 5% of that. It is actually sad. The blander games look these days, the less they are going to disappoint. But these ones, like Archeage, they have so much cool stuff going on on paper that it rips your gamer heart when a month later you realize you are not enjoying it anymore.

EDIT!

For example:

Absence of instanced Dungeons & Raids - You will not find a traditional dungeon in Black Desert and there is no large scale PvE content. Currently players can summon bosses in the open world at specific locations, then kill them solo or with a group of up to five members. The only exception to this is the guild quest bosses which are intended for your guild.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 09:07:24 AM by Falconeer »

Threash
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Reply #170 on: December 20, 2015, 09:23:48 AM

No dungeons or raids is another mark on the good column in my book.

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Lantyssa
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Reply #171 on: December 20, 2015, 10:08:27 AM

- Pets. There's plenty of pets, and they have different functions and abilities, and they even interact with your player model (Cats jump on your shoulders when they feel like it), and you can have more than one out at the same time.
Can I have them all out?  Can I have ALL the pets out?

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Draegan
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Reply #172 on: December 20, 2015, 10:18:20 AM

No dungeons or raids is another mark on the good column in my book.

Same here. People have been bitching about terrible combat, but when you ask them why, they say because there is no trinity.
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Reply #173 on: December 20, 2015, 01:46:57 PM

Lack of trinity is pretty meaningless.  It translated to shitty combat in GW2 where lack of trinity just means "everyone DPS and no one heals worth a damn".
Falconeer
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Reply #174 on: December 20, 2015, 01:50:02 PM

And potion every 5 seconds.

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