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Author Topic: Divinity: Original Sin - Turn based, coop including editor? Sign me up  (Read 149440 times)
Falconeer
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Reply #175 on: July 04, 2014, 02:25:18 AM

Darth Roxor is clearly EUROPEAN cause he understands their language  why so serious?

Teleku
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Reply #176 on: July 04, 2014, 02:27:57 AM

This thread.  First people getting angry for not understanding the term eurotrash games (hint, it's no more an insult than the term ameritrash is in the boardgame world).

And now this.

So happy I kickstartered this!   awesome, for real

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Jaedar
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Reply #177 on: July 04, 2014, 02:30:37 AM

[intelligence] if you are not familiar with games of this type, perhaps it would be a good idea to read the manual!

Thanks, Mr. 29-post, F13-newbie Divinity-fanboy!

I know, i know. It's desperately important to you that everyone in the world find your favorite game flawless and unquestionable, but maybe - just maybe - you might wish to recognize that games made in the last 20 years rarely rely on a manual. Particularly those sold through Steam.

I know, I'm simply some idiot noob, expecting a game to explain itself, as games have done for the past two decades. Again, please enjoy your sense of smug superiority. I assure you, I am deeply impressed, and your smugness has thoroughly convinced me of both my own idiocy and your pet game's supremacy.

Rest assured I now go to play a different game while crying bitter tears that I will never experience the rapture of Your Favorite Game.

Say hi to Cleve Blackmore for me.
You didn't really need the manual though, you figured it out on your own. But if you want to get everything explained to you from the get go, that's probably a good place to look instead of complaining about the developers not shoving it in everyone's faces. Is your ego really so fragile that you need to blame even such a small failure on someone else?

This thread.  First people getting angry for not understanding the term eurotrash games (hint, it's no more an insult than the term ameritrash is in the boardgame world).

And now this.

So happy I kickstartered this!   awesome, for real
I am happy too  DRILLING AND MANLINESS
Darth Roxor
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Reply #178 on: July 04, 2014, 02:32:52 AM

I know, I'm simply some idiot noob

Admitting it is the first step.

Also,

Quote
Say hi to Cleve Blackmore for me.

Will do.

From the wake of Magellan to Magellan's wake.
Falconeer
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Reply #179 on: July 04, 2014, 02:42:03 AM

I don't think anyone feels insulted, really. Especially not me, I hate flags, borders and the concept of "country", and I consider myself stateless (too bad the law doesn't). And it's not that I didn't really understand what Schild meant. The issue, in a way, is not understanding why "ameri-anything" makes sense*, while "euro-anything" doesn't.

See, not a single person living in Europe feels "European". See what I mean?

Anyway, end of the derail for me. Not an argument anyone can win, and definitely not a big deal anyway.



* although I still argue that it's messed up that citizens of the USA call themselves "American", but hey, whatever you like.


Tebonas
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Reply #180 on: July 04, 2014, 02:50:51 AM

Usually the term is Eurojank, not Eurotrash. I guess thats why some people reacted badly to that newly coined term. More the -trash, less the Euro-

But yes, it is Eurojank through and through. If you are against that kind of thing you wouldn't enjoy it.

I am quite positive they tell you beforehand you can use crates/vases to trigger the treasure plates though, and even if not it is the next logical step after using one to trigger the mine in one of the previous rooms.

But that doesn't mean you are dumb, just that this isn't the game for you. Manipulating the environment seems to be a large part of it from what little I played (just exploring the first city).
K9
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Reply #181 on: July 04, 2014, 05:34:35 AM

Overall I'm enjoying this game, but I have very mixed feelings.

On the one hand, I enjoy the minimalism of the games structure, although I think describing games like this where information is fed to you in a more natural way as 'hard' is a bit misleading, it's not harder per se, it's just more of a chore. On the flip side, while less hand-holding is nice, I think there is a reason not many games like this are made any more, and I think they have gone a bit too far in making information opaque. Some examples:

 - Finding skill books for your class isn't intuitive or fun at all, you have to go around trading with random people (some of whom are not obvious vendors) until you find them. I haven't found any dialogue options that tell you where to buy skills. An example of an older game where skill training was done better was the older Elder Scrolls games (e.g. Morrowind or Oblivion). You were breadcrumbed towards the guilds early on, and inside the respective guilds you would find skill trainers.
 - Attribute descriptions are very vague. They say broadly what they do, but don't give any specifics. The most frustrating of these for me has been speed. It has taken a bit of googling to discover that you get 0.4 action points per level of speed, so it is quite possible (as I have done) to raise speed by two points and see no increase in AP, leading me to wonder if the skill was broken.
 - Crafting is arse. I've barely touched it. While finding the recipe books is rather fun, the descriptions are just a little too realistic and unhelpful. Adding in a crafting interface that allows you to search known recipes and discover others would be an improvement.
 - I still haven't worked out how to repair my own gear, and nobody seems interested in explaining how
 - Skills should show more than just the bonus for the next level, they should show all levels. I didn't realise you could get level three of magic skills until I finally invested points into level two, which I had been putting off because I didn't see a benefit.
 - Partly as a result of the last comment, it isn't clear whether it is better to specialise heavily, or make every character quite general. Abilities like Willpower, Bodybuilding, and Lucky Charm seem useful to everyone, should I be getting them on all classes? There doesn't seem to be an obvious downside to just getting a bit of everything in the early game, partly because there are so few skills to learn in any school (as far as I can see from the skill books, there are only about 4 skills before level 7 for any school).
 -

Gameplay wise, I like the game, but I have a few mixed thoughts:

 - Combat is fun, and I prefer the cooldown system for limiting spells over a resource system such as in Dragon Age. Chain chugging mana potions is not a mechanic I miss.
 - I like the environmental interactions
 - Writing is decent, the dialogue isn't quite as good as Dragon Age, but overall I'd say it's as good as Baldur's Gate
 - Moving out of the city for the first time is a bit of a fraught experience, I was barely level 3 from all the city quests I could find, and most of the mobs outside the city are 4+, so it took some careful exploring to find packs I could kill and level up. Not a totally bad thing, but perhaps a few more low-level fights would be nice.
 - Environmental puzzles are nice, but sometimes it is completely unclear what to do or why you should solve them
 - I wish I had more abilities
 - Itemisations is a little bland, but perhaps it picks up later.

Overall I'd rate this as a 7/10 game from my ~10 hours of play.
 - The fact that there only seem to be two companions in the starting area, and they coincidentally happen to be the EXACT same classes as the ones I built (what are the odds...) is a little bit of a let down. When I made my characters I assumed I would be able to find a rogue companion, or some sort of fire mage/witch/cleric, yet I now have two Knights and two Air/Water mages, which works, but is a little unvaried.

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Khaldun
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Reply #182 on: July 04, 2014, 05:52:40 AM

[intelligence] if you are not familiar with games of this type, perhaps it would be a good idea to read the manual!

Thanks, Mr. 29-post, F13-newbie Divinity-fanboy!

I know, i know. It's desperately important to you that everyone in the world find your favorite game flawless and unquestionable, but maybe - just maybe - you might wish to recognize that games made in the last 20 years rarely rely on a manual. Particularly those sold through Steam.

I know, I'm simply some idiot noob, expecting a game to explain itself, as games have done for the past two decades. Again, please enjoy your sense of smug superiority. I assure you, I am deeply impressed, and your smugness has thoroughly convinced me of both my own idiocy and your pet game's supremacy.

Rest assured I now go to play a different game while crying bitter tears that I will never experience the rapture of Your Favorite Game.

Say hi to Cleve Blackmore for me.

I was a bit stumped at first too, but actually on a quick replay, I missed the tutorial instruction that tells you that you can move objects like crates, barrels, broken vases. I thought the only thing you could do was break them. So it's there in the tutorial.
Signe
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Reply #183 on: July 04, 2014, 06:52:00 AM

Wait.  There's a manual? 

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Rasix
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Reply #184 on: July 04, 2014, 07:00:22 AM

Now there is.

This thread has taken an interesting turn.   Ohhhhh, I see. 

Oh, Bloodbowl.  Heh.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 07:02:56 AM by Rasix »

-Rasix
K9
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Reply #185 on: July 04, 2014, 07:18:31 AM

Wait.  There's a manual? 

Apparently, but I don't understand why reading the manual is somehow superior to actually presenting the information in game...

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Hoax
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Reply #186 on: July 04, 2014, 07:51:42 AM

Usually the term is Eurojank, not Eurotrash. I guess thats why some people reacted badly to that newly coined term. More the -trash, less the Euro-

I've always thought of it as jank so I agree with this. The 3 idiots getting their panties in a wad over either term obviously need to admit they are idiot noobs that somehow don't know common game descriptor that Divinity is a poster child for.


*die extra words*
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 08:08:05 AM by Hoax »

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Merusk
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Reply #187 on: July 04, 2014, 08:00:35 AM

Wait.  There's a manual? 

Apparently, but I don't understand why reading the manual is somehow superior to actually presenting the information in game...

Takes less time/ resources to produce it. One guy and a word processor vs. art, animations, writing and planning how to relay everything. Unless you're talking just flyover tooltips, but then it's still a UI guy and someone to punch in the information/ code the tooltip.

Game shouldn't be equated to Baldur's Gate or even Torment. Reminds me much, much more of Eye of the Beholder/ Gold Box era games. It's hard and you need to familiarize yourself with the manual and the rules.  It's a modern antique and I love it so much for that.  I didn't know shit about D&D when first playing those and thought they were garbage until I'd read up on the rules. Then I had a lot more fun.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
K9
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Reply #188 on: July 04, 2014, 09:19:22 AM

I'm not talking about from the dev's perspective, I'm talking about the argument about how users get the information. As a gamer, I'd far rather be given information in game than have to read a manual; there's nothing fun or interesting about reading a manual.

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Rasix
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Reply #189 on: July 04, 2014, 09:33:22 AM

I mostly liked manuals for character creation and class choice, since most games of the infinity engine era were pretty shit about explaining classes and magic.  

I'll be specific about that quest I was griping about, it was "Warming the Crowd".  You're supposed to recruit a crowd warmer to go from one comedian's side to another.  Simple enough.  I tried one of the conversation choices, and lost at the Paper-Rock-Scissors mini-game (god, why couldn't this just be a skill check/roll).  Quest fails, but I don't notice that it fails and I just go do something else.  Well, both comedians still go on like the quest is active but you can't even bribe the quest warmer at this point.  You can't steal the head (which is your objective to help you complete Headless Nick).  Your other option at this point would be to murder the entire theater area.  undecided  There are a lot of tools available in this game that could facilitate the completion of this quest, but those aren't available or possible given the rigidness of the design.   This is evident all over the damn place.  It's frustrating.  I just save a lot now (and the paper rock scissors algorithm is pretty obvious once you've done it a few times, the computer is predictable past the first go).

I'm liking the game, especially the combat (which could be a lot damn faster, please), but the jank is here, and I'm learning to cope with it.  It's making me miss the quest design and writing of a game like Arcanum a bit.  It's weird at how bad these are given the game's other strengths and available tools.

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Reply #190 on: July 04, 2014, 09:37:53 AM

Quote
Game shouldn't be equated to Baldur's Gate or even Torment. Reminds me much, much more of Eye of the Beholder/ Gold Box era games. It's hard and you need to familiarize yourself with the manual and the rules.  It's a modern antique and I love it so much for that.  I didn't know shit about D&D when first playing those and thought they were garbage until I'd read up on the rules. Then I had a lot more fun.

This is damning, backwards praise considering BG and Torment were improvements on a design, specifically the design of early D&D games.

I don't think anyone feels insulted, really. Especially not me, I hate flags, borders and the concept of "country", and I consider myself stateless (too bad the law doesn't). And it's not that I didn't really understand what Schild meant. The issue, in a way, is not understanding why "ameri-anything" makes sense*, while "euro-anything" doesn't.

See, not a single person living in Europe feels "European". See what I mean?

Anyway, end of the derail for me. Not an argument anyone can win, and definitely not a big deal anyway.

* although I still argue that it's messed up that citizens of the USA call themselves "American", but hey, whatever you like.

Your adorable worldviews aside, your previous post is at odds with what you said.

All I can say about lots (not all!) of US Americans is that they tend to think they know what's good and what's bad. What feels right and what feels odd. As an absolute. Globally. Worldwide. And soon enough galaxywide.
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Reply #191 on: July 04, 2014, 09:47:55 AM

I mostly liked manuals for character creation and class choice, since most games of the infinity engine era were pretty shit about explaining classes and magic.  

Physical manuals sure, but when I'm having to alt-tab between the game and a pdf some of the magic is lost  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Reply #192 on: July 04, 2014, 11:01:41 AM

I'll be specific about that quest I was griping about, it was "Warming the Crowd".  You're supposed to recruit a crowd warmer to go from one comedian's side to another.  Simple enough.  I tried one of the conversation choices, and lost at the Paper-Rock-Scissors mini-game (god, why couldn't this just be a skill check/roll).
PROTIP: Read the text in the window next time you play the mini-game, then press space.

You're welcome.
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Reply #193 on: July 04, 2014, 11:42:57 AM

That's not the point.

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Jaedar
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Reply #194 on: July 04, 2014, 12:44:36 PM

That's not the point.
It might not have been the point you were going for, but it's certainly one of the major points of the post you wrote.

To be fair, I do agree that it feels like there is a solution missing to that quest. Fortunately it seems to be the only one like that.
Koyasha
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Reply #195 on: July 04, 2014, 01:25:47 PM

- I still haven't worked out how to repair my own gear, and nobody seems interested in explaining how
Find a repair hammer (these seem to be kind of rare; I'm not sure where I picked up the one I have, but I think the Legion commander guy has some for trade sometimes) and use it, then target the gear needing repair.  On a character with sufficient...blacksmithing, I think it is.

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Merusk
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Reply #196 on: July 04, 2014, 02:20:26 PM

I got one from a random basket, but the Wizard who hired you and lives above the Legion commander sells one, I believe.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Sky
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Reply #197 on: July 04, 2014, 06:49:13 PM

Where did these touchy cunts come from? So much more enjoyable than the usual game release thread.
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Reply #198 on: July 04, 2014, 08:06:06 PM

Where did these touchy cunts come from? So much more enjoyable than the usual game release thread.
RPGCodex gonna RPGCodex. For extra fun, be sure to mention how much you love (or even better, worked on) Oblivion, Fallout3, and Mass Effect!  why so serious?

... anyway, I am really enjoying this game, the combat gameplay is really good (in fact, I wouldn't mind playing a "tactics" spinoff at some point). The weakest point is the writing imo, but even that is above typical RPG fare made by non-native speakers. It also helps that they are going for the lighthearted / goofy approach instead of srs bsns.

rk47
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Reply #199 on: July 05, 2014, 08:22:56 AM

oh noes



looks like steve is dead now.
all alone against so many monster.



*throws candlebra at oil*




« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 08:31:45 AM by rk47 »

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Reply #200 on: July 05, 2014, 04:40:09 PM

- The fact that there only seem to be two companions in the starting area...

Not too far into the game (actually surprised you haven't encountered it yet at 10 hours) you get access to a vendor that sells a variety of hirelings.
Segoris
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Reply #201 on: July 05, 2014, 07:53:13 PM

- The fact that there only seem to be two companions in the starting area...

Not too far into the game (actually surprised you haven't encountered it yet at 10 hours) you get access to a vendor that sells a variety of hirelings.

^ This.

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Reply #202 on: July 06, 2014, 02:43:01 PM

All I can say about lots (not all!) of US Americans is that they tend to think they know what's good and what's bad. What feels right and what feels odd. As an absolute. Globally. Worldwide. And soon enough galaxywide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPekmA9tcvg

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Reply #203 on: July 07, 2014, 09:42:44 AM

This thread smells like 1990's gaming.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Sky
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Reply #204 on: July 07, 2014, 12:55:40 PM

Because 1999 was the worst year for gaming ever.
Rasix
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Reply #205 on: July 07, 2014, 01:52:25 PM

The last fight (or what I assume is) in the first area was a bit easier than I expected.  


Game's fun.  I don't agree with people that are putting it on the same pedestal as the top tier infinity engine games, but it's definitely worth playing.  The price tag is nice as well, as there seems to be a lot of hours here for what you pay.   Still wish the combat was faster, because it eats through a 2 hour gaming session like nothing.   Reminds me of the Witcher in that respect, but at least you just aren't running around the entire time  (yay ports).

-Rasix
K9
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Reply #206 on: July 07, 2014, 03:17:58 PM

- The fact that there only seem to be two companions in the starting area...

Not too far into the game (actually surprised you haven't encountered it yet at 10 hours) you get access to a vendor that sells a variety of hirelings.

^ This.


This is bafflingly unintuitive.


That aside though, now that I'm level 7.5 on all my characters and have found some skills, I'm really getting into the game.

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Reply #207 on: July 07, 2014, 03:37:15 PM

Because 1999 was the worst year for gaming ever.

Jan - May did not compare to Jun - Dec.

Just saying. It was practically 2000 before things got shithot.
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Reply #208 on: July 07, 2014, 06:54:06 PM

k9, you're way over-thinking the 2nd Pyramid. That's all I'm going to say.

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kildorn
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Reply #209 on: July 07, 2014, 07:26:02 PM

The End of Time stuff will cause your teleport icon to glow green any time something changes there.

For the pyramid, read the book on what they do and it makes more sense. But so far I've also never actually used the silly things.
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