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Author Topic: Marvel Universe (Thar be spoilers ahead.)  (Read 310322 times)
Threash
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Reply #2240 on: July 31, 2019, 08:23:54 AM

In the comics she just grabs the hammer and becomes Thor, the comics are not based on the MCU so the hammer is still around. The problem they have is that there is no hammer now because Cap would have to return it so alternate timeline Thor had it.

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eldaec
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Reply #2241 on: July 31, 2019, 08:34:46 AM

I really think that 'problem' is at most a pre-titles 'bit'.

There is going to be a hammer.

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Rendakor
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Reply #2242 on: July 31, 2019, 09:23:18 AM

Why can't she just take the axe Thor got from Peter Dinkledge? Why does it need to be the hammer?

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Sir T
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Reply #2243 on: July 31, 2019, 09:41:14 AM

Or maybe Superboy Prime punches reality.

They can just build another one. Problem over. Ya the Hammer was unique, but Odin originally built it or ordered it built. So build another one. Its useless to anyone but Thor anyway.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 10:11:26 AM by Sir T »

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Reply #2244 on: July 31, 2019, 09:46:01 AM

And I'd guess that if I were writing something to explain this is in less than one line of dialog I'd go with 'the hammer chooses who is worthy and it has met Jane'. I mean, as script challenges go, this one really is super easy, barely an inconvenience.

In the comics, it grew out of a terrible crossover series where Thor was revealed to have killed a Celestial in his past or something and so he suddenly felt unworthy and he could no longer pick up the hammer. Thor's mom led Jane to the hammer on the Moon, where she promptly picked it up and turned into Thor. Despite its terrible origins, the story itself with Jane as Thor was top stuff.

Velorath
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Reply #2245 on: July 31, 2019, 10:58:07 AM

Yes, there will in all likelihood be a hammer. The fact that it gets remade or comes back through other means though leaves a number of workarounds for how Jane can wield it.

As for the storyline in the comics (mild spoilers if you ever plan on reading the comics or if any of it is used for the movie):

Cyrrex
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Reply #2246 on: July 31, 2019, 11:02:35 AM

As a person who is probably closer to being a ‘average MCU fan’ than most of you....you gotta have the hammer.  Thor without the hammer fucking sucks.  That axe thing fucking sucks.  The hammer is a symbol of Thor, period.

Also, they have already done photo ops with Natalie holding the hammer.

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Khaldun
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Reply #2247 on: July 31, 2019, 04:44:55 PM

Hammers get built at the drop of a hat in the comics. Odin whipped one up for Beta Ray Bill, Loki whipped one up for Storm, etc. That's pretty consistent with the MCU too in that it's implied that the dwarves are basically the arms dealers that Odin had an exclusive business relationship with.

Though the more they flesh out "Marvel cosmic", the more peculiar a few things get, as is the way with superhero continuities once they get crowded. Thanos has been going around killing half a planet for a while. Presumably when he started he wasn't quite so formidable but at around the time Tony Stark suits up for the first time, he seems pretty fucking dangerous and he seems to have the Black Order and Gamora/Nebula by his side, and have side deals with Ronan etc.

So:

a) You'd think the Asgardians circa the first "Thor" movie would be really quite familiar with him. Unless Thanos is smart enough to have given all of the "Nine Worlds" a wide berth due to the Asgardians' quite dangerous technology and capabilities.
b) You'd think Captain Marvel would have gone after him before the events of Endgame, if she's been out there solving problems. Unless there's something bigger and badder still that preoccupied her.
c) The Ravagers and the Nova Corps have definitely heard of Thanos but they seem a little underwhelmed by him--he doesn't seem like a pressing problem at the top of their docket. Maybe the Kree have been the bigger issue for the Nova Corps right up to the beginning of Guardians.
 
NowhereMan
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Reply #2248 on: August 01, 2019, 11:27:31 AM

I can kind of see it as something on the scale of Climate Change/ not immediate problems. Thanos is going around wiping out half a planet and then disappearing, if he's not doing that to your systems there are probably some more pressing issues to deal with. His plan to wipe out half of all existence is probably not something anyone really thinks is realistic or is grandiose enough that it is a secret. I can definitely buy that none of the big powers really sees Thanos as more than a local threat that isn't in their locality.

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jgsugden
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Reply #2249 on: August 01, 2019, 11:49:08 AM

Yeah - even over 20 years... there are a lot of problems in the Universe and Thanos killing half the population of a few planets may not have made him priority #1 for these intersteallar forces that had their own issues to address.

As for whether there will be a hammer - of course there will be.  We'll see Mjolnir again.  I'm betting that the story has original Thor fall in battle and the pieces of Mjolnir reassemble and go to Jane to rescue him (or something along those lines).

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Surlyboi
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Reply #2250 on: August 20, 2019, 04:05:07 PM

Spider-Man out of the MCU as Marvel Studios and Sony can't work out how to properly distribute the money hats.

Quote
Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige won’t produce any further Spider-Man films because of an inability by Disney and Sony Pictures to reach new terms that would have given the former a co-financing stake going forward. A dispute that has taken place over the past few months at the top of Disney and Sony has essentially nixed Feige, and the future involvement of Marvel from the Spider-Man universe, sources said.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
jgsugden
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Reply #2251 on: August 20, 2019, 04:17:05 PM

It'll be interesting to see what Sony is allowed to do with Holland and the existing Spider-man movie continuity under the nuances of their deal.  I'm guessing Marvel protected itself so that you couldn't have the Sony films become "that stuff occuring elsewhere in the MCU".

Regardless, I'm going to boycot all Sony Spider films.  Even if they're ok, I'd rather fail and make it easier for Marvel to recover the IP. 

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
eldaec
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Reply #2252 on: August 20, 2019, 04:37:13 PM

I was surprised Disney were willing to do the original deal and tbh I can't see why Sony would have been willing to shift to the 50/50 deal that the Internet seems to say Disney were insisting on.

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Riggswolfe
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Reply #2253 on: August 20, 2019, 04:54:42 PM

Why can't she just take the axe Thor got from Peter Dinkledge? Why does it need to be the hammer?

Because the axe doesn't have the magic on it that turns someone into Thor/judges their worthiness. That was something Odin had done. The axe is just a super powerful weapon.

I was surprised Disney were willing to do the original deal and tbh I can't see why Sony would have been willing to shift to the 50/50 deal that the Internet seems to say Disney were insisting on.

After those Andrew Garfield abominations the Spiderman property was in serious danger at Sony. Marvel helped them right the ship and while neither movie is as good as Spiderman 2 (in my opinion) they're far superior to the drek that was both "Amazing" movies. Sony probably believes they have Tom Holland and a good director and that's all they need. If we're extremely lucky we won't get the Tom Holland version of Spiderman 3.

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Surlyboi
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Reply #2254 on: August 20, 2019, 05:07:37 PM

They’re also looking at the success of Into The Spider-Verse and figuring they can make lightning strike multiple times. They’re also probably counting on Phase 4 petering out. (no pun intended)

They’re probably wrong and this is a stupid idea.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
jgsugden
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Reply #2255 on: August 20, 2019, 05:26:31 PM

I'm betting Marvel acquires all the Spider-rights in about 5 years.

I wonder if they'll send Spider-man into an 'alt universe' or something to isolate him from the recent of the comics universe... or do something else similar to how they treated the FF and X-men.

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Velorath
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Reply #2256 on: August 20, 2019, 05:43:33 PM

Marvel never would have made Logan or Deadpool. It's just not in their business model. Obviously we got a lot more bad FF and X-men movies than we got good ones, but when Fox got acquired by Disney we lost out on the potential for more good mature-rated Marvel superhero stuff. Sure Disney might carry on with Deadpool since it's now a proven success, but it's not a movie they would have made on their own. What we've gained is that maybe we'll get some good X-men movies down the road and maybe those characters will get to interact with other Marvel characters (even though mutants as a concept work best when they aren't noticeably set in a world with other super-humans).

If Marvel had the Spider-man rights we would have never gotten Into the Spider-verse. Again, Marvel doesn't seem to currently be interested in theatrical Marvel animated movies. We would get more of what we've already gotten with the Tom Holland Spider-man. It's solid stuff, and I'm glad they got to use him for Infinity War and Endgame, but I'd rather have the chance for more stuff like Spider-verse. I don't think they have a whole lot to gain story-wise at this point by having Spider-man interact with the current crop of MCU characters anyway and it sounds like even the MCU is going to be focused more on stand-alone stories for the time being. I'm ok with the next couple Spider-man movies just being Spider-man movies and they can finally move past the Tony Stark as Peter's father figure thing. Of course what they'll probably actually end up doing is trying to build a shared universe with Venom and Morbius, but whatever.
Surlyboi
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Reply #2257 on: August 20, 2019, 06:13:12 PM

We might not have gotten a Logan or a Deadpool before, but now that the precedent has been set and Feige has said that they would be doing R-rated movies in the future, I'm not all that worried about that aspect.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Trippy
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Reply #2258 on: August 20, 2019, 06:26:42 PM

Not dead yet: https://twitter.com/io9/status/1163929390763429890

Quote
Update: A Sony rep told us it’s their belief this dispute is simply over a producer credit and negotiations are ongoing. They further clarified Feige has contributed to other Spider-centric movies that he did not receive a producer credit on.
eldaec
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Reply #2259 on: August 20, 2019, 06:45:38 PM


I was surprised Disney were willing to do the original deal and tbh I can't see why Sony would have been willing to shift to the 50/50 deal that the Internet seems to say Disney were insisting on.

After those Andrew Garfield abominations the Spiderman property was in serious danger at Sony. Marvel helped them right the ship and while neither movie is as good as Spiderman 2 (in my opinion) they're far superior to the drek that was both "Amazing" movies. Sony probably believes they have Tom Holland and a good director and that's all they need. If we're extremely lucky we won't get the Tom Holland version of Spiderman 3.

With the situation with the Garfield films I can see why Sony ripped Disney's arm off originally.

But, if the Internet is right, Disney seem to be asking Sony to give them half the value of the rights for Sony's biggest franchise. I don't know why they'd do that. If Sony can't make profitable spider man films they have no business running a studio.

I also don't buy that the MCU actually needs spiderman.

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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
HaemishM
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Reply #2260 on: August 20, 2019, 10:48:11 PM

They’re also looking at the success of Into The Spider-Verse and figuring they can make lightning strike multiple times. They’re also probably counting on Phase 4 petering out. (no pun intended)

They’re probably wrong and this is a stupid idea.

So much this. We've already seen what Sony can do with the property and it had no staying power, despite some positives. And they had just, IMO, really gotten the groove with the characters and his place in the MCU. Fucking idiots.

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Reply #2261 on: August 21, 2019, 11:42:33 AM

So much this. We've already seen what Sony can do with the property

You mean, along with Fox and New Line help usher in the modern-era of comic book movies?
Surlyboi
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Reply #2262 on: August 21, 2019, 12:35:01 PM

So much this. We've already seen what Sony can do with the property

You mean, along with Fox and New Line help usher in the modern-era of comic book movies?

Yes and then shit on it.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Khaldun
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Reply #2263 on: August 21, 2019, 01:23:50 PM

I suspect this is just both sides playing hardball in the negotiations and showing that they're willing to walk away from the deal if need be.
HaemishM
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Reply #2264 on: August 21, 2019, 02:15:12 PM

So much this. We've already seen what Sony can do with the property

You mean, along with Fox and New Line help usher in the modern-era of comic book movies?

And then pissed away whatever good feelings were generated on the first two movies of the series for a really terrible third movie. So I guess Sony is just following in the footsteps!

eldaec
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Reply #2265 on: August 22, 2019, 03:38:35 AM

Sure, OTOH Disney made thor 2 and avengers 2.

People make bad movies some times.

The way the mouse seems to suddenly have the weird Internet people behind them on this in a kind of reverse Last Jedi is actually making me root for Sony on this one.


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Cyrrex
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Reply #2266 on: August 22, 2019, 06:00:49 AM

I guess I am more interested in understanding how this puts a giant fucking monkey wrench in the MCU and how they will have to ret-con it out.  Also, does that also mean Tom Holland is out?  Or maybe they can bring him back as the Night Monkey.  Which, now that I think of it, would be the best thing that ever happened.

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Teleku
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Reply #2267 on: August 22, 2019, 06:23:10 AM

Sure, OTOH Disney made thor 2 and avengers 2.

People make bad movies some times.

The way the mouse seems to suddenly have the weird Internet people behind them on this in a kind of reverse Last Jedi is actually making me root for Sony on this one.
Thor 2 and Avengers 2 were orders of magnitude better than any of the three Spider-Man films made after Spider-Man 2.

I mean, I think the basic narrative most people have in their mind is remembering how the MCU started, it was great, and everybody was like “man, would be great if they could get Spider-Man in this”.  Sony then proceeded to churn out a few terrible failed movies just to maintain the rights and hope they make a profit of the MCU hype, angering all.  Turned out they had no idea how to make money with Spider-Man, and after those massive failures, finally agreed to share with MCU.  MCU proceeds to make Spider-Man great again, and now suddenly sony fucks off with it to fuck over the MCU and probably make more terrible movies because in the last decade they showed they had no idea how to make money with Spider-Man.

As was pointed out in Discord, they were behind the recent Spiderverse, so that does give hope for what they might do with it.  But what your seeing here is people remembering Sony ass fucking the franchise into the ground for a decade before Disney bailed them out.  So there is going to be some bias.

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Surlyboi
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Reply #2268 on: August 22, 2019, 09:08:08 AM

Also, Spiderverse was done by another studio, largely without a lot of Sony's bigwigs fucking with the creative process. Now that they see a potential cash cow, they'll have their hands in a lot more shit.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
HaemishM
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Reply #2269 on: August 22, 2019, 09:48:18 AM

My faith in Disney's MCU stuff is mostly down to Kevin Feige's involvement. I don't think any studio exec in recent memory has had such a hand in a long, sustained level of success both creatively and financially, as Feige. His involvement in the two Holland Spider-Man movies clearly had a positive impact - not only were both movies better as a whole than both "Amazing" movies with Andrew Garfield but they made a ton more money. The tie-in with the Marvel films with the involvement of actors like RDJ/characters like Iron Man was a big part of that financial success.

Without Feige and Disney, that doesn't happen. And while the Garfield "Amazing" movies were ok (the second one not as much), their financial performance was below Sony's expectations. Venom being a forgettable weird shitpiece (yet somehow making big money overseas) tells me that Sony really isn't to be trusted to make the property not suck.

Velorath
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Reply #2270 on: August 22, 2019, 09:55:07 AM

I guess I am more interested in understanding how this puts a giant fucking monkey wrench in the MCU and how they will have to ret-con it out.  Also, does that also mean Tom Holland is out?  Or maybe they can bring him back as the Night Monkey.  Which, now that I think of it, would be the best thing that ever happened.

I'm guessing it doesn't throw much of a monkey wrench in the MCU at all. There is nothing in the Phase 4 lineup where Spider-man would have fit in. Phase 5 still needs to get Blade, Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, and GotG 3 done. In theory they could squeeze three of those into 2022 and one into 2023, but there probably wouldn't be any room for another Avengers movie until 2023 at the earliest and that's not even accounting for whatever they're planning for Fantastic Four and X-men.

Assuming Sony keeps on pace with Spider-man there'll be movies in 2021 and 2023. So by the time of any likely crossover opportunities we'll be on the 4th Spider-man solo movie in 2023. So while I'm sure Feige has some ideas on what they could do with Spider-man in the MCU going forward if they were able to work out another deal with Sony, it was far enough off that it was probably still in the early stages, and I can't see any way it would affect any of their currently announced projects.
Rendakor
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Reply #2271 on: August 22, 2019, 10:02:18 AM

Neither of the first two Holland films were really solo films, though. Having Stark, Happy, Fury, Hill, etc. have helped a lot, and doing a Holland Spidey without any of that is going to feel really odd.

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Velorath
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Reply #2272 on: August 22, 2019, 11:02:22 AM

I disagree that it helped (at least in regards to the quality of the movie). It felt more that there was a contractual obligation on Marvel's end to provide MCU guest stars. Maybe it just gives me bad '90s comic book flashbacks where the popular characters of the time were constantly guest starring in other books in a cynical attempt to increase sales. Typically though, I don't find myself going into a Spider-man story thinking how much better it would be if Nick Fury were in it.
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Reply #2273 on: August 22, 2019, 11:39:50 AM

I'm more of an MCU fan than a fan of any specific character, and generally was never into comic books or super heroes pre-MCU. Because of that, I really look forward to all the tie-ins; I would never have watched half the MCU movies on their own, but seeing how they all tie together has made the journey much more enjoyable for me. I understand that not everyone feels that way.

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Khaldun
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Reply #2274 on: August 22, 2019, 05:38:28 PM

Everything's golden when they thread the needle of having movies that are aesthetically distinctive and yet also beautifully interlocked. As in the comics.
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