Topia Online

[ZenScrotum]

   They've already received 50% of the Kickstarter pledges through Paypal on the sites front page. That's in the 6 or so hour's since the new Pre-order system was put in place....  Your continued snarkiness in no way affects this game coming out. And the mere fact that a Mod is in here derailing the thread says everything that needs to be said.

[schild]

Well Zen. To be fair, it doesnt exactly scream quality. Also no one cares how successful any of this shit is really. Compound that with the fact you came back to spamvertise.

[Malakili]

   They've already received 50% of the Kickstarter pledges through Paypal on the sites front page. That's in the 6 or so hour's since the new Pre-order system was put in place....  Your continued snarkiness in no way affects this game coming out. And the mere fact that a Mod is in here derailing the thread says everything that needs to be said.

I hope it comes out and that it is great, because frankly, there isn't a lot out there like what this game wants to be.  But we've all got way too much experience around here with promises being made early in development, particularly in the context of sandbox games, to feel real excited about this game as a community.  If Topia comes out and is great, I'll be the first one to play it, but I'm not going to get hyped over bullet points, especially when it comes to a low budget kickstarter project.

[Rendakor]

Is repeat-indenting a permabannable offense?

[Trippy]

Yes.

[Der Helm]

It really IS hard to live in North Korea.

[Arthur_Parker]

I don't remember Zen being that stupid either, memory is a funny thing.

[Paelos]

He's starting to sound like a cartoon bad-guy. YOUR CONTINUED SNARKINESS WILL NOT STOP MY PLANS FOR WORLD DOMINATION MWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Lantyssa]

He obtains zen from a ballsack.  You can't really expect a big-budget bad guy.

[Paelos]

He obtains zen from a ballsack.  You can't really expect a big-budget bad guy.

More like Scooby Doo bad guy? WE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN KICKSTARTED IF IT WEREN'T FOR YOU MEDDLING FORUM POSTERS!

[Rendakor]

He obtains zen from a ballsack.  You can't really expect a big-budget bad guy.

More like Scooby Doo bad guy? WE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN KICKSTARTED IF IT WEREN'T FOR YOU MEDDLING FORUM POSTERS!

That got me good.

[UnSub]

They've already received 50% of the Kickstarter pledges through Paypal on the sites front page.

So that's a quarter of the original target? Well done, good sir, on getting money from people for a game that doesn't yet fully exist.

If you look at how many MMOs have been successfully Kickstarted, I think there are about 5 who made it (including PathO's and Embers of Caerus' investor demos) and a whole heap that didn't. One day I'll look to work out a success rate, but it isn't good.

[Margalis]

Hey Zen, why so angry about trivial crap?

That thread is fairly stupid on both sides. An MMO with permadeath - we know that never works!! Really? One of the hottest games of last year was basically an MMO with permadeath and PvP. (Hint: brainnnsssss)

There's almost no high-level game idea that flat out can't work.

Not to say that this will work but is the idea any worse than Space Romans? I mean...FFS I laughed out loud just typing that.

[Arthur_Parker]

The thread content was the main reason I picked the word trivial when linking it.

[Hutch]

Hey Zen, why so angry about trivial crap?

That thread is fairly stupid on both sides. An MMO with permadeath - we know that never works!! Really? One of the hottest games of last year was basically an MMO with permadeath and PvP. (Hint: brainnnsssss)

There's almost no high-level game idea that flat out can't work.

Not to say that this will work but is the idea any worse than Space Romans? I mean...FFS I laughed out loud just typing that.

    Did the zombie game go around begging people for money before finishing its tech demo though? I'm not being sarcastic, I actually don't know.

    Also, did the zombie game ride a wave of hype (nostalgia?) that made pre-Trammel UO grognards flock to USENET the internet, indent their paragraphs, mock tryhards, and sign their posts? Again, I ask out of ignorance. I didn't pay much attention to the zombie game(s).

                                                                                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                                                                                          Hutch

[Margalis]

Indenting is no less annoying when you do it.

Anyway my point was merely that the thread at Lum's was fairly silly all around.

[schild]

I have absolutely no idea why that game reverted Zen to the mind of a 15 year old butthurt fanboy. It looks like shit. I simply don't understand how anyone could think otherwise.

[Paelos]

I have absolutely no idea why that game reverted Zen to the mind of a 15 year old butthurt fanboy. It looks like shit. I simply don't understand how anyone could think otherwise.

It is rather odd. I can understand it for even the Populous guy because he made Populous and we should give him money to make another Populous. But this?

It reinforces the idea we need a F13 kickstarter for our own game about Bat Country the interactive MMO.

[Falconeer]

It reinforces the idea we need a F13 kickstarter for our own game about Bat Country the interactive MMO.

I'll fund it if it has permadeath.

[Lantyssa]

It has permadeath, but only if you don't pay the monthly $50 subscription fee.

[palmer_eldritch]

Hey Zen, why so angry about trivial crap?

That thread is fairly stupid on both sides. An MMO with permadeath - we know that never works!! Really? One of the hottest games of last year was basically an MMO with permadeath and PvP. (Hint: brainnnsssss)

There's almost no high-level game idea that flat out can't work.

Not to say that this will work but is the idea any worse than Space Romans? I mean...FFS I laughed out loud just typing that.

I think the issue was that it bought back memories of pre-Trammel UO except that it promised to be even more griefy because of the permadeath. Early UO is pretty much universally agreed to be horrible and something that could only have been acceptable in the days when UO was the only MMO around. When the first mainstream MMO came out allowing people to escape PvP (ie Everquest I), UO immediately followed suit by introducing the non-PvP mirror land, because they knew their original design was unsustainable.

However, I wonder if the consensus tells the whole story? Are we sure there isn't room for a sandbox MMO which has open PvP but still attracts (this is what's meant to be impossible) different types of player, not just the "killer" type? I mean, Wurm has pretty open PvP from what I can tell but it seems to attract people who enjoy building and crafting. Are there no PvEers or socialisers playing Darkfall? There are certainly industrialists and roleplayers playing in 0.0 in Eve, although I take the point that only a minoty of Eve players ever leave the safe(ish) zones. I don't know the answer, I just wonder if the consensus might not be based too much on the memories of bitter vets from the early days of UO.

[Paelos]

It has permadeath, but only if you don't pay the monthly $50 subscription fee.

And once you die, you get rezzed with a grief title last name. We can have Haemish design those.

Tyrox ... Weaselraper

[Arthur_Parker]

Early UO is pretty much universally agreed to be horrible and something that could only have been acceptable in the days when UO was the only MMO around.

Meh, how many times do we have to have this conversation?  About 10% loved the freedom about 90% hated it.

[palmer_eldritch]

I am educating the youngsters buddy!

[Trippy]

Needs more charts.

[Paelos]

Needs more charts.

[tgr]

There are certainly industrialists and roleplayers playing in 0.0 in Eve, although I take the point that only a minoty of Eve players ever leave the safe(ish) zones.

This isn't really applicable, for one simple reason: it makes absolutely no sense to try to do industry in nullsec right now, apart from smalltime producers. Making shit in hisec and JFing it out is vastly preferable, both in terms of cost, risk and effort.

There's an increasingly heavy push to try to get CCP to remedy this imbalance, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[UnSub]

That thread is fairly stupid on both sides. An MMO with permadeath - we know that never works!! Really? One of the hottest games of last year was basically an MMO with permadeath and PvP. (Hint: brainnnsssss)

It's permadeath with almost no character permanence - starting again was (mechanically, probably not emotionally) trivial. I'm extremely curious about how many players stuck around after the first few sessions of giving DayZ a shot too.

Plus DayZ was a mod that went viral, not a separate title that trying to survive on its own revenue. Again, I'm curious how DayZ the standalone game will do when it comes out and has some kind of cash shop.

[Bzalthek]

So, it would be like Team Fortress 2, But when Scout 42 dies, Scout 43 respawns!  BAM!  Permadeath!

[rattran]

Cash Shop + permadeath or full looting seems like it's bound to fail epicly.

[apocrypha]

It reinforces the idea we need a F13 kickstarter for our own game about Bat Country the interactive MMO.

Bat Country the Inactive MMO you mean.

[UnSub]

So, it would be like Team Fortress 2, But when Scout 42 dies, Scout 43 respawns!  BAM!  Permadeath!

In TF2, you get to keep your hat.

[IainC]

That thread is fairly stupid on both sides. An MMO with permadeath - we know that never works!! Really? One of the hottest games of last year was basically an MMO with permadeath and PvP. (Hint: brainnnsssss)

There's almost no high-level game idea that flat out can't work.

It wasn't so much the permadeath in and of itself. I'm not reflexively anti permadeath although I think that it is incompatible with character investment in a game that wants to make money. It was more the whole suite of terrible design decisions taken as a whole.

Permadeath not just of characters but of whole servers.
Persistent characters in the world even when the player has logged out.
No AI enemies except for ambiance beasties.

There were a few others but I don't care to reread their pitch to remind myself of them.

[tazelbain]

Calling DayZ MMO is funny. Apparent anything with a online component is an MMO now.  And lets face it DayZ was a shit game that elevated by confluence of pop culture and novelty game play.

[Arthur_Parker]

And lets face it DayZ was a shit game that elevated by confluence of pop culture and novelty game play.

Which still put it miles above most of the games out there, for people who like that kind of thing.